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Olympic/Naenae

221 replies · 9,549 views
over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Email to clubs from Capital Football on Saturday:
 

Hi all,

Naenae Soccer Club appealed to NZF against a decision made by Capital Football to permit a player to play for Olympic against Naenae in the Premier League playoff match which took place on 22 August 2009.

 

Capital Football based its decision on past practice as to the interpretation of the regrading rule. Olympic were aware that Naenae were likely to appeal this decision.

NZF has ruled in line with the rule as explicitly written in the Capital Football Rules. That is the player concerned was ineligible to play for Olympic in the playoff match and have upheld Naenae�s appeal.

Capital Football Rules provide that the result shall be forfeit.  Therefore, for 2010 Naenae will remain in Champs Premier League and Olympic in Capital 1.

Regards

 

 

Cliff Bowden

Operations & Communications Manager

Capital Football

Phone : 04 586 5810

Mobile:  021 222 6849

Website: www.capitalfootball.org.nz

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
Email to clubs from Capital Football on Saturday:
 

Hi all,

Naenae Soccer Club appealed to NZF against a decision made by Capital Football to permit a player to play for Olympic against Naenae in the Premier League playoff match which took place on 22 August 2009.

 

Capital Football based its decision on past practice as to the interpretation of the regrading rule. Olympic were aware that Naenae were likely to appeal this decision.

NZF has ruled in line with the rule as explicitly written in the Capital Football Rules. That is the player concerned was ineligible to play for Olympic in the playoff match and have upheld Naenae�s appeal.

Capital Football Rules provide that the result shall be forfeit.  Therefore, for 2010 Naenae will remain in Champs Premier League and Olympic in Capital 1.

Regards

 

 

Cliff Bowden

Operations & Communications Manager

Capital Football

Phone : 04 586 5810

Mobile:  021 222 6849

Website: www.capitalfootball.org.nz

I think that it will be VERY wise to wait until the facts are known and a FINAL decision is made by CF. Often hasty decisions can lead to speculation and potential legal ramifications ......
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
that is their final decision

Founder

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feverish wrote:
that is their final decision
Well it is because of their decision (allowing us to play RE) that we have arrived in this mess....so would you take this for granted that this is their final decision....
 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Da Boss wrote:
Feverish wrote:
that is their final decision
Well it is because of their decision (allowing us to play RE) that we have arrived in this mess....so would you take this for granted that this is their final decision....
 
 
is this guy gonna be involved?
 

Founder

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It's Mabo. It's the vibe of it.
 
My hero.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Question:  can one ever now trust a ruling that is from CF on any matter?
 
 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Ok this has become farcical

So the rule states that you can't do what Olympic did - CF ignores their own rule, and lets them play. Then NZSoccer says... ummm you just ignored your own rule. You can't do this - Olympic you lose

Moral of the story, if you have a rule, follow it. Don't 'interpret' it
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
Email to clubs from Capital Football on Saturday:
 

 Olympic were aware that Naenae were likely to appeal this decision.


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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

One question that has not been asked is, how did Naenae know what Olympic was up to?

 

To me there is only 2 ways

 

1: Olymdic was stupid enough to inform Naenae, therefore they got what the deserved.

 

2 Information may have been leaked by CF to Naenae.

 

If it was the former, how can any club have confidence in CF when asking a question re rules and that the opposition will not be pre-warned?

 

If there is a new policy at CF to pre warn, then the best thing for clubs is just do it and keep your trap shut

 

In my 20 years experience in administration, unless information is leaked, the opposition does not have enough time to obtain the relevant info and submitted such within the deadline for protests.

 

In my time there were on average 10-12 protests a season however on a good season there would only be 2 that would be upheld.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

CF are a bunch of amateurs making a meal of things a usual. I bet I know which CF staff stuffed this one up.

 

You would think they would take responsibility for their mistake and do the right thing. Just put both teams in the prem league!

 

If you can�t trust something in writing from your local federation then what use are they.

 

These young Greeks lads have put in work and deserve to take their place, if certain CF administrators were employed in a reputable organisation they would either be out on the street or on a performance management plan.

 

Mind you it�s kind of what I come to constantly expect out of CF administrators.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Critter - I disagree, it sounds like you are advocating secrecy and/or favouritism. Yeah CF f**ked up but maybe they are also trying to run a more open, honest and transparent environment these days? As long as these (relatively) new guys learn their lessons fast, I'm sure we will have an efficient, friendly, customer focused service soon - something I never would have imagined coming from CF a few years ago.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

No I am no advocating secrecy and/or favoritism but if the office is going to leak info, then what is the point of clubs asking for a ruling.

 

I was always under instruction that the office was to give a ruling and it was up to the club to make its own mind to accept or decline, but never to break the confidence.

 

To me it now looks that if the office is to �dob� in clubs, there is a possibility that if the administration does not like a club, then he/she �dobs� them in.

 

But on the other hand he/she just may keep quite

 

All I am asking is, �has the policy of being impartial changed.

 

One only needs to look at an instruction given to the staff by the manager less than 7 months ago re privileged info being leaked from the office.

 

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
What is this - the screenplay for Frost/Nixon?

There is a whole element of "drama" here that is completely unnecessary - "Oh my god, why didn't CF just burn the tapes??"

It's park football - get a little perspective people.

I mean, it's not like there's a whole lot of money a stake here. Oh f**k, yeah sorry I forgot...

I guess if you make a pact with the devil, eventually he's gonna make a booty call.



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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
all I know is that Olympic were given Clearance Clarence by CF who used an old (proved to be incorrect)  interpretation of the rules by an ex-employee, so Naenae said before the game, 'OK if you play him we will appeal to NZF" (or words to that effect). Olympic then played him, Naenae appealed to NZF, NZF read the relevant rule and applied it. I've read the rule and it is clear cut, no doubt there, Olympic forfeit the game. Olympic were warned in advance so there is no moral high ground available to them. Argument over.
 
  
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
At the end of the day, we were given clearance by CF.

Why should we suffer for the stupidity CF obviously have demonstrated?

The governing body of wellington football grants permission for a player to play in the playoff game. That team wins, therefore deserve promotion. If they were unsure or borderline with the decision why not take it to NZF before giving this permission?

To take this away from us now is disgraceful.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Why does NZF have jurisdiction to overturn a decision made by Capital Football?  The have nothign to do with the competition or the rules (unless I'm missing something somewhere?)
 
This is pretty mickey mouse stuff, surely the match should be replayed or an 11 team league played?  Unsatisfactory outcome surely...
 
Perhaps this will inspire (force) Capital Football to look at ALL of the rules surrounding regrading of players and fix all of this.
 
Critter: your two options are hardly exclusive.  Wellington Football is a pretty small place, everyone knows what is going on with everyone else's business
james dean2009-10-28 01:38:40

Normo's coming home

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Redwards wrote:

However, capital football said if I played cap 4 before hand that I could play in the naenae game.
 
That sounds a bit dodgy doesnt it though? It does sound like the club trying to fudge the rules,and CF taking a misinterpretation of the rules and saying "well technically if you do this then you will be eligible.
 
If you try fudge the rules you do so knowing it could come off badly for you. The quote that Olympic knew Naenae could appeal,sort of shows that they themselves knew it was a bit dodgy.

Allegedly

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tegal - players have beenregraded like that in the past all the time
 
What was NZF's actual decision?  That the regrading as described wasn't effective or that the player couldn't be regraded for a playoff match?
james dean2009-10-28 04:35:33

Normo's coming home

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:
Tegal - players have beenregraded like that in the past all the time
 
What was NZF's actual decision?  That the regrading as described wasn't effective or that the player couldn't be regraded for a playoff match?
 
the later I think

Founder

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

If CF has the guts it can, as has happened in the past with a previous manager, tell NZF that it does not accept the ruling and it will deal with a matter as it sees fit.

 

It is for CF, if the believe that they are correct, to log an appeal, but unless they are quick it will be to late (same as NZF f***uped with Moss)

 

Protests in the past have happened in this order,

 

1 To Capital Football

2 To NZF

3 Fifa

 

 

 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

US is refusing to get over that decision by NZF after Naenae appealed. NZF is the highest football body in NZ and CF is actually underneath it believe it or not. Greeks must surely know the rules all along and were just trying its luck and this time , it didn't come off. What was the reson for Greeks to play RE in thef irst place? To etst teh rules or to win at all cost? So, Greeks going to sulk from now on or get up and move on. Play within the rules and you will be ok. That is why we have rules that apply to everyone.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
AngusBeef wrote:

US is refusing to get over that decision by NZF after Naenae appealed. NZF is the highest football body in NZ and CF is actually underneath it believe it or not. Greeks must surely know the rules all along and were just trying its luck and this time , it didn't come off. What was the reson for Greeks to play RE in thef irst place? To etst teh rules or to win at all cost? So, Greeks going to sulk from now on or get up and move on. Play within the rules and you will be ok. That is why we have rules that apply to everyone.



If you have read the topic, you will see that they were playing RE because HE WAS THEIR CAPTAIN ALL SEASON. 
Regrading has always been 'interesting' around playoff time and they were unsure of the rules, so asked for a ruling from the governing body and were granted permission - what makes you think that they 'knew the rules all along'? 
They can't exactly 'move on' at the moment as there is 6 months till the season begins so 'sulking' as you put it and moving on aren't mutually exclusive at this point.



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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Listen, from what i gather from the people arguing against allowing Olympic in Prems, get this through your head.

1) I am not angry at Naenae, they had all the right to appeal.
2) This frustration is directed at CF and NZF who are so unaligned that neither know which way is up.

Here is the facts, simple and short:

- Capital Football allowed RE to play in the playoff match
- Capital Football are given jurisdiction from NZF to make their own authoritative decisions
- Olympic won the match
- Naenae appealed
- NZF say, no you had a ineligible player 'RE'

Where is the consistency and alignment between these two governing bodies?

How can something like this happen?



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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
. monkeyboy2009-10-28 18:36:09
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
monkeyboy wrote:
Not being a smartass, but more interested to know if there is a clause or rule anywhere giving Capital Football discretionary powers on rules, I did have a quick look but couldn't find anything. Cheers.
from C / F Playing reg's
 
10. Playoffs

1) All playoffs, if required shall take place at a suitable time after the conclusion

of the season as determined by the Manager.

2) The Rules of this competition, and the venue(s), will be determined by the

Manager prior to the commencement of this competition. The playoff Rules

and venue may be subject to consultation, but decisions made in this regard by

the Manager will be final and not subject to appeal.

3) Players of any Club taking part in the playoffs are required to be registered

players of the Club concerned and have been registered for the Club prior to

30 June of that year � see also 3.1.d).

4) Any team eligible for playoffs which decides not to take part in those playoffs

shall be relegated to the Division below their current division

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

�The Manager� The General Manager of Capital Football

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:
Tegal - players have beenregraded like that in the past all the time
 
What was NZF's actual decision?  That the regrading as described wasn't effective or that the player couldn't be regraded for a playoff match?
 
Does that make it right? "take the field for 5mins in capital 4 then you will be able to play for the 2nd team in the big playoff game"
 
Cmon now...I have heard of this happening all the time,but have never thought its right. The rules are in place for a reason,not to be fudged about like that in my opinion.
 
Besides,all i was saying is if you do that,you should really do so knowing your walking a bit of a fine line if the other side decides to appeal. Having said that,it sounds as though CF screwed up.

Allegedly

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Greeks club was treading on thin ice and this time, it fell through and got wet. Take responsibility for doing it in the first place and move on. If you must, go and fry something else. a wet fish?
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Angus Beef, if you actually go back and think about this for a second the only line they treaded was believing that Capital Football knew and understood its own rules
Whether it is morally right or wrong is nothing to do with Olympic.  They were following the rules of the competition.  If you don't agree that you should be allowed to regrade players in that way then that is the fault of the rules, not the club.james dean2009-10-29 02:42:33

Normo's coming home

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yeah i was thinking that after i posted,the rule is pretty flawed,to the extent that not even CF understands their own rules. It definetly needs looking at.
 
But at the same time,my point was that if you're treading a fine line on these rules,it can sometimes backfire on you. This time it did exactly that.
 
Hopefully this incident brings about some thought into change.

Allegedly

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
How fine a line is it treading when playing a guy that has (from my understanding ) played almost if not every game that the reserves have played, and won the 2nd team player of the year, WITH CF PERMISSION!
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
aitkenmike wrote:
How fine a line is it treading when playing a guy that has (from my understanding ) played almost if not every game that the reserves have played, and won the 2nd team player of the year, WITH CF PERMISSION!
 
Perhaps once they decided to play him in CL after the last Cap1 game they should have left him out of their play-off plans

Founder

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tegal wrote:
Yeah i was thinking that after i posted,the rule is pretty flawed,to the extent that not even CF understands their own rules. It definetly needs looking at.
 
But at the same time,my point was that if you're treading a fine line on these rules,it can sometimes backfire on you. This time it did exactly that.
 
Hopefully this incident brings about some thought into change.
 
You're not really treading a fine line by following the rules as clearly stated to you by the governing body...
 
Can't believe anyone is blaming Olympic for this.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
 politics politics and more POLITICS!!! 1st of all every time i go to maccas and have an angus beef it comes out as crap which is wot i think of u dick head .u must still be in an incestuous affair with ur mother.....
 2nd - jamie cross must've pissed some poncy JAFA when he awarded the penalty in the cup final
and this must be payback....conspiracy i tell u !!!~!!
 - when UNIVERSITY COWAN of the old national league days (80's), were controversially removed
 after finishing 3rd bottom, due to not meeting the new criteria regarding ground enclosures!!!!
play-offs were had, teams were promoted. the club appealed for quite some time before it was decided to allow them back in, thereby increasing the league to an odd # of teams and byes. ...why not????? think the appeal ended up in court tho??
   otherwise replay the bloody game for crying out load wot a misscarriage of justice.
  keep the fight going olympic
  
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
 as far as the regs go, there's a new interpretation every bloody year....sort it out NOW
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
yourmomma wrote:
monkeyboy wrote:
Not being a smartass, but more interested to know if there is a clause or rule anywhere giving Capital Football discretionary powers on rules, I did have a quick look but couldn't find anything. Cheers.
from C / F Playing reg's
 
10. Playoffs

1) All playoffs, if required shall take place at a suitable time after the conclusion

of the season as determined by the Manager.

2) The Rules of this competition, and the venue(s), will be determined by the

Manager prior to the commencement of this competition. The playoff Rules

and venue may be subject to consultation, but decisions made in this regard by

the Manager will be final and not subject to appeal.

3) Players of any Club taking part in the playoffs are required to be registered

players of the Club concerned and have been registered for the Club prior to

30 June of that year � see also 3.1.d).

4) Any team eligible for playoffs which decides not to take part in those playoffs

shall be relegated to the Division below their current division


This will make any legal action taken by Olympic interesting.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
pissda, you are a angry twat. Go and wash your mouth out. It was NZF that overturned CF's decision and may be you can appeal to the Court of Appeal or Privy Council over this.Start a petitiona dn see you will get 500,000 signatures or not.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

They need to sort our regrading in the Regs. I think it�s fair enough that you can re-grade up for play-offs. If your team at the end of the season has players that are unavailable � then where are the players going to come from? However, the jiggery pokery that was used in the RE case is not acceptable either. I�m sure there are a couple of possible solutions.

Founder

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feverish wrote:

 However, the jiggery pokery that was used in the RE case is not acceptable either. I�m sure there are a couple of possible solutions.

Have you actually thought this through before you put pen to paper.
THERE ARE NO JIGGERY POKERY HERE. Things are very simple...despite a lot of people trying to complicate them..
Olympic AFC played the said player in the play-off due to CF giving permission to do so. END OF STORY
Do you think that the Club would have been so silly to still play the player if we didn't have clearance. ....???? 
Naenae have appealed CF decision, and NZF have agreed with them.
CF must decide what to do next, and this will be done I believe in the next week or so (and yes despite their earlier email....)
Yes the regs need to be sorted...... and yes they need to be sorted BEFORE the start of the new season so all concerned will know where we stand. YOU CAN NOT change things halfway through the season. It will be very interesting to see how many more decisions of CF will be appealed over the next few months...as the Pandora's box has just been opened.
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