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THE Capital Football Thread

146 replies · 4,214 views
about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Have you got a suggestion (other than you)...?

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Graham Seatter

Founder

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
Let the speculation on potential replacements commence.
 
Sam Buckle.
David Cross.
 
Others?  Go.
 
Go on Smithy, you know you want to put your hand up?
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
who would that leave him to throw tanties at?

Founder

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Fever Exec.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:

Have you got a suggestion (other than you)...?

 
Steve Stevens

Founder

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
+1
 
For those of you who don't know Steve:
 
Smithy2009-03-02 09:35:52

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Ian Rogers


hey, welcome back to the site Ian!

Salmon swim upstream

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
A worrying little rumour is circulating that the existing Board (due to resign at the next AGM) is planning to appoint Palmer's replacement without a public applications process. 
 
 

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Rules don't prevent it I don't think.  Board is empowered to do what they like as long as they're the Board...

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
A worrying little rumour is circulating that the existing Board (due to resign at the next AGM) is planning to appoint Palmer's replacement without a public applications process. 
 
 

Is that one you started?

Founder

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Nope, that one's someone else's.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Better be a football person appointed

Founder

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
me
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
rightstr wrote:
me
 

Not a bad shout. I�d support you if you get our YF web link back up!

Feverish2009-03-04 10:13:07

Founder

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yeah I dunno what the deal is with CF and YF (or lack of one I should say). I remember at one meeting someone asked for ways to increase publicity for lower grades, maybe via the paper or website or something, the idea being to get teams more knowledgeable about each other, and I piped up and said the best way is to just start a thread on the YF site. Got greeted with a very stony silence and we moved straight on to the next item of general business.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Can I ask a question (or ten) ?

Didn't I see somewhere that Capital football made a profit last year ?  Does this mean the clubs will see a reduction in what is required to be paid to them, and a drop in subs to reflect this ? 

Also, if they made a profit, why are there youngsters skipping Academy programs and teams because they can't afford it or don't see any value at the high prices charged ?

Is this a governing body or a business ?   I thought the aim here would be to break even and do all  that can be done for football using every cent they have ?


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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
rightstr wrote:
Yeah I dunno what the deal is with CF and YF (or lack of one I should say). I remember at one meeting someone asked for ways to increase publicity for lower grades, maybe via the paper or website or something, the idea being to get teams more knowledgeable about each other, and I piped up and said the best way is to just start a thread on the YF site. Got greeted with a very stony silence and we moved straight on to the next item of general business.


I suspect it is because (at some stage) someone said something bad about Capital Football on here.  God forbid people talk about football, much better to just leave it as a mumbling undercurrent of frustration.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
About this time last year (I think it was) I approached CF on our behalf with an offer to sponsor something, anything, for them.  Keith Palmer suggested his new fangled Junior Finals Day and Super 6 competition.
 
I agreed we'd be happy to put some cash in and try and make a big day out of it.
 
I heard nothing back.  When I followed it up he said that "it had been decided" that it wasn't the right image to associate CF with YF because YF was essentially an organisation of drinking and swearing.
 
I'm paraphrasing, but he made it clear they wanted no association.  About the same time we lost our web link from their home page.
 
Childish.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Baiter wrote:
Can I ask a question (or ten) ?

Didn't I see somewhere that Capital football made a profit last year ?  Does this mean the clubs will see a reduction in what is required to be paid to them, and a drop in subs to reflect this ? 

Also, if they made a profit, why are there youngsters skipping Academy programs and teams because they can't afford it or don't see any value at the high prices charged ?

Is this a governing body or a business ?   I thought the aim here would be to break even and do all  that can be done for football using every cent they have ?
 
No. 5 District Federation of New Zealand Soccer Inc (trading as Capital Football):
 
2008 surplus (announced to be): over $100,000
2007 surplus up to 19 May 2008 (filed 16 Jan 2009): $73,530
2006 deficit: $390
2005 surplus: $8,950
2004 surplus: $60,784
2003 surplus: $48,630
 
Perhaps more interesting is that in that time spending on salaries and wages has increased by almost $100,000 to over $371,000 and income from juniors Academies has increased to $90,693 from $52,531 in 2005 while expenditure on Federation teams has fallen from $90,948 in 2005 to $87,296. 
 
Palmer's lasting legacy to the organisation then has been to turn junior development into a profit centre (remember the organisation also gets charitable grants towards salaries and running costs in order to provide those programmes) while increasing the staff costs and size of the organisation.
 
Not that there haven't been some good things (got to love the focus on girls' football for example, and the drive to reduce the sizes of junior teams and pitches), but "healthy state"?  You're having a laugh.
 
 
Edited - to add another positive thing believe it or not!
Smithy2009-03-04 14:47:19

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Take another angle. Keith has done a fantastic job building up equity and therefore creating a buffer for that inevitable day when the trusts decide to really cut back. And, maybe all these things Smithy mentioned are just Keith implementing policies, targets and budgets set by the Board, which is what any good CEO does. So should the boney finger be pointed higher up?  

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
How does that sit with the rules of the organisation ? and the stakeholders ?
 
(Without limiting the generality of the powers referred to in these Rules the Board may do any of the following):
 
...
 
Rule 14.5.7 Appoint, remove or suspend such other executives and other staff and contractors for or from such permanent, temporary or special services as the Board may from time to time think fit and determine their duties and fix their salaries or emoluments (what the?).  The Board may also appoint from time to time the bankers and legal advisters of the District Federation. 
 
However...
 
Rule 14.6.3 The Board shall undertake a proper recruitment process to select the most suitable candidate for the position of Chief Executive.  These (sic) shall include notifying Clubs and advertising the position in at least one (1) wideley circulating newspaper.  The position of Chief Executive shall be non-voting.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
rightstr wrote:

Take another angle. Keith has done a fantastic job building up equity and therefore creating a buffer for that inevitable day when the trusts decide to really cut back. And, maybe all these things Smithy mentioned are just Keith implementing policies, targets and budgets set by the Board, which is what any good CEO does. So should the boney finger be pointed higher up?  



There go your chances of the job.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
rightstr wrote:

Take another angle. Keith has done a fantastic job building up equity and therefore creating a buffer for that inevitable day when the trusts decide to really cut back. And, maybe all these things Smithy mentioned are just Keith implementing policies, targets and budgets set by the Board, which is what any good CEO does. So should the boney finger be pointed higher up?  



There go your chances of the job.
just theorising. Now answer the question.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
rightstr wrote:

Take another angle. Keith has done a fantastic job building up equity and therefore creating a buffer for that inevitable day when the trusts decide to really cut back. And, maybe all these things Smithy mentioned are just Keith implementing policies, targets and budgets set by the Board, which is what any good CEO does. So should the boney finger be pointed higher up?  

 
I see your point rightstr, but if Mr Palmer wants to get in the press and claim credit for where the organisation is at then surely he must wear it if in fact nobody is very impressed.  T
 
In a sense you're right.  The Board must take some responsibility because all major transactions, including the hiring of staff, require a Board resolution.
 
To rebut your other angle equity has not been increased much at all.  The surpluses - as you'll see - aren't a lot bigger now than they have been in the past, and after depreciation the effect on equity is minimal.
 
So, as I said before, what has happened has been an increase in the size of the organisation and the bill for wages and salaries, funded at least in part by cutting costs and increasing profit in areas that have in the past been treated as essentially philanthropic, like junior elite development.
 
Blowing out the wage bill is hardly putting the organisation in a state to deal with a cutback in charitable funding, is it?
Smithy2009-03-04 15:13:35

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Rightystr � can your first action be to reduce yellow/red card fines please. thanking you

Founder

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
rightstr wrote:

Take another angle. Keith has done a fantastic job building up equity and therefore creating a buffer for that inevitable day when the trusts decide to really cut back. And, maybe all these things Smithy mentioned are just Keith implementing policies, targets and budgets set by the Board, which is what any good CEO does. So should the boney finger be pointed higher up?  

 
I see your point rightstr, but if Mr Palmer wants to get in the press and claim credit for where the organisation is at then surely he must wear it if in fact nobody is very impressed.  T
 
In a sense you're right.  The Board must take some responsibility because all major transactions, including the hiring of staff, require a Board resolution.
 
To rebut your other angle equity has not been increased much at all.  The surpluses - as you'll see - aren't a lot bigger now than they have been in the past, and after depreciation the effect on equity is minimal.
 
So, as I said before, what has happened has been an increase in the size of the organisation and the bill for wages and salaries, funded at least in part by cutting costs and increasing profit in areas that have in the past been treated as essentially philanthropic, like junior elite development.
 
Blowing out the wage bill is hardly putting the organisation in a state to deal with a cutback in charitable funding, is it?
sorry I was assuming the surplus was after depreciation, I couldn't remember what the accounts show.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feverish wrote:

Rightystr � can your first action be to reduce yellow/red card fines please. thanking you

I'll need to consult an expert on how much they are and how much they have increased over the years. Do you know anyone who can help?
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I know a man who knows a man..

Founder

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
 
Is Cliff Bowden a candidate?
 
Not sure how the board pass any new staff. I've been on committees with three of them and you're luck y to see them once a year

Founder

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
Is it a concern to anyone else that we are the only ones that care ?
 
Concern yes, surprise no.
 
People in the capital like to bitch and moan about things in private, not out here where people can see and hear them.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I can barely put in two cents, but I am trying to get into this community, so here's my feelings.

As someone from Chch, I am use to this political bollocks. Yellow Fever is the greatest thing to happen to NZ footy ever. Full Stop. I mean I was in Chch a fortnight ago and mentioned I had a kickaround with the Fever lads, and one of the guys involved in the higher running (that mean's News, I could be wrong :P), and footy people I knew were impressed. People give a damn about footy now cause of YF

As it is, Capital football look like they like looking up their own bums and saying how shiny it is. Granted I've only been here a year and a half, and the footy up here is so much better then in Chch. But there are some big issue
Firstly it seems like Capital Football, like every other organisation over the last 5 years, has greased their own pockets, while doing dick all for the smaller guy.

They seem to miss the fact that they can invest in artificial pitches, and the numbers add up in the future. Revenue + Less maintenance costs, leads to profit. Yet they would rather take our money, and shank the majority of footballers from playing over the season (what did most guys get in last year... 11 games, and then there was the juniors who had no footy for 7 weeks I believe).

Sure it's not easy being a CEO there are always cogs to grease, but it seems Capital Football has  taken expansion and risk and dumped it in the too hard basket, and let us just sit on our laurels, and how great the Phoenix are.

Ehh, that's all I've got
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

OK, here goes!

As an ex-Board member I feel compelled to offer some sort of response to the various statements about the Board and CEO of Capital Football made here this afternoon.
 

First of all, fair play to you all. You are absolutely entitled to share your opinions and it�s obvious that most people posting here actually do care about what�s happening in Wellington football.

I have no intention of just blindly defending the CF Board but I do think there�s a certain amount of mis-understanding and/or mis-information being thrown about here.

I got myself elected to the Board in April 2005 because I had a level of frustration about the way I perceived Capital Soccer (as it was then) to be run, but I didn�t want to just sit on the sidelines and keep sniping away (and yes, that is a hint!).

It was an interesting three and a half years and I�m glad I did it, but I also came to realise just how tough it really is to run an organisation like that, both strategically and operationally. Until you�ve actually sat there and tried to work through a lot of these issues it�s hard to understand just how difficult they are to resolve.

It is a very complex environment with multiple competing demands from stakeholders at all levels. You are dealing with clubs, players, coaches, referees, NZF, other federations, community trusts, city councils (CF deals with 4 big ones � Wellington, Hutt, Porirua, Kapiti plus another bunch over the hill in the Wairarapa), SPARC, other government agencies, sponsors, service providers, Team Wellington, the Phoenix, the list just goes on. A lot of the stakeholders are also unpaid volunteers, which means a lack of formality around a lot of the interaction plus often dealing with a high degree of emotion. Put another way, there is an awful lot of �churn� to deal with. People forget that something out of left-field like the near-financial collapse of NZF last year took a huge amount of effort from right across the country to put right, including a lot of time from CF�s own CEO and several of CF�s Board members.

There is a huge gap between the expectations of CF�s members and what can realistically be achieved with the resources available. This is exacerbated by the fact that although the clubs love to refer to themselves as a single entity when criticising CF in some way, in actual fact the clubs themselves don�t agree on very much. As soon as you pick below the surface on a range of issues you find very little consensus exists � which is OK but it means that often the best the Board can often hope for is to please some of the people some of the time. When you think about it that�s exactly what the Board is there to do but nobody thinks like that when the Board makes a decision they personally don�t agree with.

We also tend to think of the Board as some remote �Big Brother� type entity, squirreled away in some secret inner-sanctum making decisions. In actual fact it�s a bunch of well-meaning people like yourselves meeting once a month in a room above the Backbencher trying to do their best for the good of the game. Most Board members are still involved with their own clubs to some degree, also have full-time jobs and families, and somehow fit it all in. I liked all the Board members I dealt with and can genuinely say they were all there with the best of intentions.

The Board has also been set up as a consensus decision making model with 4 appointed members and 3 elected (plus some co-opted if required). The majority rules but for the most part the Board actually tries to make unanimous decisions and then take collective responsibility for them. Compromise is the key word and anybody coming in with a very specific personal agenda that they are not prepared to compromise around would probably get frustrated.

I'm not trying to make apologies on behalf of the Board or anything but just offer some insight into what it's actually like. In short, it is just bloody hard work. You go in with high expectations but they get re-set pretty quickly and if you come out having contributed to even a few concrete improvements you should probably feel satisfied. Despite that I would really encourage anybody on here who feels strongly about the issues facing CF and thinks they can make a difference to give it a go. It�s certainly a lot better that bitching from the sidelines.

By the way, I�ve deliberately focused on the role of Board because they really are the ones who are calling the shots. Discussion about the role of the CEO gets personal very quickly because it�s obvious who you�re talking about. Despite that I can honestly say that I think Keith Palmer has been great for football in Wellington. He is one of the hardest-working, most committed people I�ve ever met and the worst thing I can say about him is that he probably spread himself too thin and burnt himself out too quickly. I think it�s a real shame he�s moving on but he really has left the game here in better shape than it would have been without him.

Cheers,

Regan.

 PS. Sorry I have no idea why the font's so small and I don't seem able to fix it!

F A Cup2009-03-04 19:38:38
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
thelastnomad wrote:
I can barely put in two cents, but I am trying to get into this community, so here's my feelings.

As someone from Chch, I am use to this political bollocks. Yellow Fever is the greatest thing to happen to NZ footy ever. Full Stop. I mean I was in Chch a fortnight ago and mentioned I had a kickaround with the Fever lads, and one of the guys involved in the higher running (that mean's News, I could be wrong :P), and footy people I knew were impressed. People give a damn about footy now cause of YF

As it is, Capital football look like they like looking up their own bums and saying how shiny it is. Granted I've only been here a year and a half, and the footy up here is so much better then in Chch. But there are some big issue
Firstly it seems like Capital Football, like every other organisation over the last 5 years, has greased their own pockets, while doing dick all for the smaller guy.

They seem to miss the fact that they can invest in artificial pitches, and the numbers add up in the future. Revenue + Less maintenance costs, leads to profit. Yet they would rather take our money, and shank the majority of footballers from playing over the season (what did most guys get in last year... 11 games, and then there was the juniors who had no footy for 7 weeks I believe).

Sure it's not easy being a CEO there are always cogs to grease, but it seems Capital Football has  taken expansion and risk and dumped it in the too hard basket, and let us just sit on our laurels, and how great the Phoenix are.

Ehh, that's all I've got
love you!one of the best posts iv seen for a long time. dont know you but like you. grab me next time and i'll shout you a beer.!
 
as for my 2cents everybody has alot to say but not alot to do. the blame for the lack of artificial pitch's is just as much the coubcil's and the local clubs fault as it is CF.
 
this is completly off track but its the same as players like g little,b macentyre, s gill etc who as players hated referees as much as the m greens and j soles of this world but what have they done???they have decided to get into coaching. some of these players and clubs should have a look at the jim murphy's of this worl d=and say lets get some decent players to take up reffereeing when there time is done rather than deciding to coach. why has cf not put more $ and/or enphasis on seducing more players to take up reffereeing?
 
thoughts?other than my bad spelling? 
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Fair points Regan, however my angle was purely from a governance point of view. I agree with you - if people aren't happy with the way CF do things, then have a go at the board not the CEO. I personally think Keith did a great job - although there were times when I disagreed strongly with him but as you say not everyone can be pleased and I always just moved on after making my point. But can I point out something? On the CF website you are still listed as deputy chairman, Cliff is still named as a board member. Keeping basic information like this up to date would go a long way toward gaining the confidence of Clubs. 
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Nobody's having a go at Palmer as a bloke.  He's an affable guy and always fancies a chat about the game.

Righstr makes a very valid point about the Board.  A number have left and you wouldn't know it unless you knew it.

Perhaps most interesting is the lack of interest in this thread.  Could be tought to fill up that Board with the apathy that's floating around!

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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