Independent A-League

I'm in two minds about Townshend, all the Aussie fans wanted him hunted with dogs for the NSW GF deal, but he actually said that NZ was an integral part of the A-League rather than the "who invited these sheep shaggers, Nix out" attitude that prevailed for years

This is just Robbie Slater's hardly-disinterested reckons. How exactly could the FA get back the 33% from Silver Lake?

Moving it to the new franchise thread...

Danny Townsend leaving quite the legacy.

I remember the justification for raising all the 140 million from silver lake was to pay for keep up so the fact that they're ditching it is a big defeat for the sport. Of course most people were confused about what it was supposed to be so they should have probably cut it earlier.

RR

Half of APL’s workforce to be made redundant amid A-League financial concerns https://t.co/igMd28zOUL

— Vince Rugari (@VinceRugari) January 16, 2024

I could've pissed away $30 million far more spectacularly than what's been done here with the absolute piss-take that was KeepUp. 

Good grief.

We should be worried. If APL folds, and ex-FFA takes over the A-League again, then it's goodbye to us (and probably Auckland FC as well)

That's not going to happen, splitting off the a league was a FIFA directive.

The owners are still investing heavily in their teams. I doubt they'd let it fail, but there might be a change in the makeup of equity if some owners (or private equity) put in money and dilute others 

Doloras

We should be worried. If APL folds, and ex-FFA takes over the A-League again, then it's goodbye to us (and probably Auckland FC as well)

Why would they do that?  Rob is on the APL Board, and the Nix are one of the more stable clubs in the league. Wave goodbye to Auckland's $AUD25M license fee or whatever they will pay into the APL pot? At a time when whoever is running the A League badly needs cash. 

You've been spouting negative garbage about how the Nix are about to die for years Doloras. I remember a few months back before Foley's ownership was announced, you blatantly stated any new Auckland team was dead in the water. I could show you a glass of water 99% full, and you'd say it was 1% empty.

Sounds like the Keep Up thing has been a failure, and presumbly a few of these staff let go were IT/marketing types working solely on that. But again highlights the Unite Round ($12M from NSW Govt over 3 years?) a bit of a cash injection financial neccesity for the APL. At least the Sydney GF idea has been dropped, which is very timely considering where the Nix sit on table (dare to dream!).

"

Doloras

We should be worried. If APL folds, and ex-FFA takes over the A-League again, then it's goodbye to us (and probably Auckland FC as well)

Why would they do that? "

Why did they spent 3 years trying every excuse to drive us out of the league when Gallop was running things? Only the foundation of APL saved us.

Doloras

"

Doloras

We should be worried. If APL folds, and ex-FFA takes over the A-League again, then it's goodbye to us (and probably Auckland FC as well)

Why would they do that? "

Why did they spent 3 years trying every excuse to drive us out of the league when Gallop was running things? Only the foundation of APL saved us.

not really accurate, the foundation of the APL was to remove what the owners saw as an unworkable set up and and hean man who noone really like or wanted at the top. They wanted more control of the league and the funds that ran it, having us as part of that group was a win/win situation. This staff change will be simply about one piece that didnt work, the league is not falling over - as much as some of the NPL Ultra fans would like to see that happen. It's a restructure to get better use out of the money the APL have and to best increase revenue going forward. Restructures happen all the time in the corporate world and companies grow from them - why would this be any different?

It’s not great when you have to let go of half your staff. But I don’t see the FA ever running the A League again, the clubs want control. Gallop is long gone, but issues/resentment like much of the $ millions Fox Sports paid for broadcasting the ALM, being siphoned off by the old FFA to the Socceroos & Matildas programs still linger. 

The APL will either continue running it and it will survive, or it will fall over. But I see it surviving if not actually thriving. The entry of Auckland and Foley’s cash will strengthen the position of NZ as a whole in the league. The Kiwi derbies with big crowds, will be welcome positive news for the APL and expansion. Canberra could also be a welcome addition.

The NPL clubs will find out how expensive running a pro club in a national league is, when the NSD starts in 2025 (if it ever does).

The Keep Up app was a failure. I downloaded it and looked at it once before deleting it. Too slow, too complicated, stuff I didn't need/want to know. For highlights I go on YouTube.

The unite round was another crowd disaster but I could've told them that beforehand. Football is all about club and fan culture. Shipping your team off to play a "home game" in another city is anti football mentality. But I get they got money for it.

Meanwhile Mark Bosnic is going on about moving the comp back into the winter months because in his opinion Aussie summers are about cricket and bbqs... and ALM is on no one's mind in summer...

Jeepers this league is going round in circles. It's tragic and sad and no one has any answers.

Yeh. They need our money currently. 

Jets ownerless. Glory very delayed new ownership with no money for transfers. WU paying late. Brisbane has got newish owners (?). Victory with mad debts. 

Bosnich is annoying. I guess the theory is then pro/rel is easier. 

Dont worry about @NewcastleJetsFC - an insider at the APL has told me the finances are so bad, both @aleaguemen & @aleaguewomen could finish up by season’s end. https://t.co/ei7TPzIhpd

— Michael Cain (@caineyten) March 19, 2024

Now that would just be effing typical! Take with a massive grain of salt tho.

Wonder what Silver Lake are thinking about their investment now.

Silverlake was apparently sold on the idea that keepup would be an integrated app for players to register to club football in Australia, through to the NPL, through to the A-League, and then the doorway to world football for the Australian market.

When Keepup shut down my guess is they have written off most of their investment as what they invested in was a football technology company that happens to run a football league, not a football league that happens to have technology.

But, I doubt the owners would allow the league to fold. Foley wouldn't be investing in a league that's dead on it's feet.

Can someone explain to me why people think Pro/Rel is the magic bullet that will fix everything? I just see more clubs getting into financial problems.

RR

Dont worry about @NewcastleJetsFC - an insider at the APL has told me the finances are so bad, both @aleaguemen & @aleaguewomen could finish up by season’s end. https://t.co/ei7TPzIhpd

— Michael Cain (@caineyten) March 19, 2024

Now that would just be effing typical! Take with a massive grain of salt tho.

Wonder what Silver Lake are thinking about their investment now.

Or Foley, before a ball has even been kicked in Auckland. 😂

Sometimes you just have to laugh though. Nix to win the bloody thing after all these years, only to see the league fall over. 

Sounds about right...

Christo

Can someone explain to me why people think Pro/Rel is the magic bullet that will fix everything? I just see more clubs getting into financial problems.

I like the idea of it, but fail to see how it's implemented for the game in Australia. A-League clubs would simply fold if/when they were relegated, and the financial gap would be too far to bridge going up from the NST to the A-League.

Thinking out loud here, but wonder if the NZ National League Championship format would work in that instance to help bridge that gap? Top 6 A-League & Top 6 NST, single round shoot out. Would give some of the punters who want a longer season what they're after, and NST clubs wouldn't be throwing their toys out of the cot so frequently at the disparity between the two competitions.

There is mooted long term plan to get to 20 ALM clubs and then split into A1 & A2 leagues of 10 teams each with pro/rel. Similar apparently to how they Japanese slowly built their J1-J2-J3 pyramid. A slow growth plan (clubs invited in from the NST or maybe new franchises altogether like Christchurch or Tassie teams) that could work.

So pro/rel would be between A1 & A2, not the NST.

Of course you have to have 20 financially sound A League clubs before you can entertain that. Next season it maybe be still only 12, ie Auckland in, but Jets out, plus no Canberra.

But longer term, it maybe possible to get to 20 stable clubs - if they all learn to cut their cloth. The Nix apparently slashed their player budget by $1M this season. Clubs just need to learn to do that, and focus on bringing through their younger talent.

Also maybe the next media rights deal will be improved from the current bargin basement one. Maybe. FA/APL had very few options when Fox Sports finished their deal, with the Paramount deal setup in a rush during Covid?? Also clubs are now earning far more from player transfers than previously - though that will always be a bit inconsistent.

Christo

Can someone explain to me why people think Pro/Rel is the magic bullet that will fix everything? I just see more clubs getting into financial problems.

Clubs that struggle financially will fold & be replaced with other clubs, until we have a league full of Sydney/Melbourne clubs ofc.

From the Aussie Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/mar/19/a-league-teams-future-losing-clubs-risks-canberra-united-newcastle-jets-ownership

Conroy confirmed that the APL is not in a position to cover losses at another club, after it recently offloaded Perth Glory to Ross Pelligra ast month. “We shouldn’t have been propping up a club,” Conroy said. “We don’t have the financial capacity.”

“I understand that there’s pressure on the players for that reason, but this is ultimately a commercial decisions for the owners,” Conroy said. “I haven’t given up on it, I’m still I’m an optimist, I hope that they’ll come through.”

Despite the uncertainty around Newcastle and Canberra, preparations are continuing for the new Auckland franchise ahead of its entry into the men’s competition next season, and the A-League Women in 2025.

The club unveiled its name Auckland FC, black and blue colour scheme and strip – similar to Internazionale – last week.

The side has been given the nickname “Black Knights” by American majority owner Bill Foley, after the moniker used of the Foley’s US military academy West Point.

Foley also owns Bournemouth in the Premier League, as well as NHL ice hockey franchise Vegas Golden Knights.

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Genuinely fudgeing insane if true...

Surely it's less 'The Wellington Phoenix are funding Newcastle', and more 'Rob Morrison, as a part of the APL Board, is funding Newcastle'.

patrick478

Surely it's less 'The Wellington Phoenix are funding Newcastle', and more 'Rob Morrison, as a part of the APL Board, is funding Newcastle'.

The APL have said they don't own the Jets. It's the consortium of the 4 clubs that does. So it's the Nix funding Newcastle. 

Lachyloolaa

Screenshot_20240320_114235_X.jpg 568.23 KB

Genuinely fudgeing insane if true...

whats more insane is it's been going on since the license was stripped off their old owner, in which case they used our own money to outbid us for McGarry, Devlin, and Piscipo.

Top of the league and propping up an Australian club to boot.

Oh how the tables have turned.

#Metrics

What I'm interested in though is how much did this financial commitment to Newcastle contribute towards the stripping back of our own playing roster to the tune of a million dollars? Seems it would've at least been a factor...

Also, fwiw - If Newcastle is the beating heart of a rich footballing region, then where are the backers with stacks of cash lining up? Because it seems like it's only one consortium in FC32 that is sniffing around trying to pick the club up on a bargain basement deal. 

I know the APL doesn't cover itself in any glory with the way it has conducted itself over these matters (and just in general too) but to me it just feels like we're flogging a dead horse here...

This isn't me saying Jets Out btw, rather just annoyance that this issue is not really any closer to being resolved. Two steps forward, one step back and all that.

As someone else said the APl going to the media, is maybe them calling bluff to this FC32 group and getting to them to finally commit. 

I don't have an issue with the Nix (or maybe just Rob Morrison cash??) helping keep the Jets alive. They supported the Nix in the bad ole Gallop days. It's not good for the Nix or the ALM too see the Jets fold. We shouldn't be indifferent to that possibility. We need all the clubs to stay stable long enough, after all the cashflow difficulty of - Fox Sports deal finishing, Covid & now Keep Up mess - for the league to sort of find it's feet & financial level.

I think the ALM can surive if again all the clubs learn to cut expenses (mainly player budgets) to suit. But yes we don't want clubs folding now, after coming out of the really tough years. 

Again the clubs need to reduce expenses to make sure the league survives. As the Nix have shown this season, and the Mariners last you don't need the biggest budget in the league to succeed. Smart recruiting and promoting good young talent.

Still the crowds are a concern. Admittedly only a 5 game round with, Melb City verus CCM postponed. That Roar crowd is awful in a city of nearly 2 million people.

A-League R21 Crowds
Western United v Melbourne Victory - 3,058
Newcastle Jets v Adelaide United - 4,103
Brisbane Roar v Macarthur FC - 3,178
Perth Glory v Western Sydney Wanderers - 5,952
Wellington Phoenix v Sydney FC - 18,002

Total: 34,293
Average: 6,859
Season Avg: 8,060…

— Austadiums Sport (@au_sport) March 17, 2024

coochiee

Again the clubs need to reduce expenses to make sure the league survives. As the Nix have shown this season, and the Mariners last you don't need the biggest budget in the league to succeed. Smart recruiting and promoting good young talent.

Still the crowds are a concern. Admittedly only a 5 game round with, Melb City verus CCM postponed. That Roar crowd is awful in a city of nearly 2 million people.

A-League R21 Crowds
Western United v Melbourne Victory - 3,058
Newcastle Jets v Adelaide United - 4,103
Brisbane Roar v Macarthur FC - 3,178
Perth Glory v Western Sydney Wanderers - 5,952
Wellington Phoenix v Sydney FC - 18,002

Total: 34,293
Average: 6,859
Season Avg: 8,060…

— Austadiums Sport (@au_sport) March 17, 2024

 Take the Nix crowd out and those are pitiful numbers. 

I was disappointed with 18k given all the positivity around the Nix and AFC but we really lifted that round. The A League seems to have major attendance issues.

Time for TV blackout like in the States maybe?

Interesting idea, but imagine the club's gate season revenue pales in comparison to the contracted the annual TV rights income. You do blackouts you lose some of that media rights cash.

Local TV blackouts maybe in the one team towns like Perth, Adelaide, Brissy, Gosfors, Newcastle, Welly & Auckland when games are being hosted there. But you blackout the larger cities Melbourne & Sydney every time a game is on there, you lose maybe 25% of your viewing audience each time. Paramount won't like that.

But yeah the low crowds are a real problem, and not a great look.
Why was the Melbourne crowd (was at AAMI Park) so low? Where were the Victory fans?

Those are poor numbers, but it’s only one round. 

I’m looking at averages on Ultimate A league. We haven’t been over 10k apart from in the era of new team glow and finals participation. In fact in our first year only one team was below a 10k average. 

Taking out finals the figures below are standard: 

We seem to average around 8k on a good year and 6k in a poor year. 

Looking at the other teams usually half the league was comfortably over 10k. But that’s dropped off in the two or three seasons pre-pandemic. 

Coming out of the pandemic Victory are a mess. Before they had many seasons 26-30k attendances. Last season with fan issues 10k. This year 12k. This is the big worry. (Though 2018-2019 saw them over a 20k average. It suggests a no nonsense Victory team will draw fans back.)

The league needs teams that are doing poorly on the pitch and has to subsidise them each year. 

But WU and MacArthur were poison pill expansions from the FFA/Fox. They struggle to break 4K attendance and haven’t exactly provided the WSW effect on the league. The opposite perhaps. There’s not a lot of rivalry built there for anyone. Or a lot of glamour destinations or fan experiences. And they’ve shelled out a lot on players watched by no one. There’s too big a gap between them and regular clubs. 

Auckland is an interesting one. It could promote a bit more rivalry or it could prompt anti-Kiwi feeling to target football. I do think Auckland could be an interesting destination and it certainly seems to have more potential than the last two. Like it or not, it’s often NZ’s gateway airport/destination and the link to Foley’s hospitality and wine businesses, as well as his soccer network, and also the moneyed end of town, definitely give it exciting cachet. Mount Smart may struggle to live up to that waterfront vision at first, and it’ll be interesting to see if the fans sort themselves out. That should be concerning Becker/McFlynn. A self-policing, yet inclusive active fan group will save him a lot of trouble. 

For the league if they bring in a player who creates as much excitement as Ono did, then they’ll bump attendance across the league. The unknown there is media reach without a strong broadcast deal they previously had with Fox to hype these players. MacLaren plus an international star would be a selling point around Aussie. What an international star is, is the genuine problem. Not Nani, unfortunately. 

It’ll be interesting to see if we get a bump in the run in too. Unfortunately, a good Nix team, focused on strong defense doesn’t help the attendances that much. Or hasn’t yet. Not much at home and not much in Aussie. After the finals and a few more eyeballs perhaps that’ll change! Finals have previously added around 2K for us and 4K for Vic to our season averages. 

But across the league the bosses aren’t of the Merrick or Ange pedigree currently and the players aren’t living up to the hype. It doesn’t help when the good ones go to WU or MacArthur! 

Sydney keep playing like this and their attendance is back next year. Uffie is a marketable boss as is Corica. City may be back, but don’t usually get much above 10k. Adelaide are still mid table imo. WSW…down a Rudan rabbit hole, but have played exciting footy at times. Brisbane, Newcastle and Perth all have potential to increase crowds somewhat, but need that ownership stability. It’s the football! 

CCM are a small catchment like us, though they have a big history as a club and great rivalries. They haven’t been over 10k average in a decade and a half. If people don’t watch the last two seasons it can’t be the quality of football! But like us, it also suppresses the overall crowds for the league a bit. 

The trick is to get attendances up across the board. Probably a good international economic outlook and would help. 

So the two issues it seems-
What to do with the dead air of two low performing new franchises and the reality of good teams from lower catchment areas? 
#SavetheJets
How to work out a good broadcast deal to get mullah, while increasing the reach of football hype and the ability to advertise it to other sports fans who might attend? 

Why are people surprised to hear that the Nix have been propping up the Jets? I thought that had been common knowledge for a couple of years? I always throw it back at the Australian eejits who insist "the Nix bring nothing to the league"

I’m not surprised

I’m fudgeing shocked 

AucklandPhoenix

I’m not surprised

I’m fudgeing shocked 

I'm getting Mandela Effect vibes here. I am trying to find online sources prior to this week confirming that the Nix were part of the consortium propping up the Jets but I'm finding nothing. But as I say, I thought it was common knowledge. Someone help me out here.

I have the same impression for what it's worth. The irony of losing Piscopo to a team we were funding, developing Maraugis for a team we were funding, etc.