West-Gone United

coochiee

Mainland FC

AucklandPhoenix

What do you reckon. NZ football steps on up in combination with the city of Christchurch and they say, we will take the franchise for free and keep your comp afloat.

Didn’t Bill pay 20 mill for his license?

No thank you.    I do not hear much clamouring around our town for an A-League club, and the availability of good facilities is not enough in absence of decent money needed to develop a following for a club from the scratch.

First dibs - if any - should to go to a project that needs less runup.   Canberra might be more of a goer at this point.   Neither Adelaide nor Brisbane are seriously pushing for a second club even if local rivalries was the idea that FOX was pushing (they wanted derbies) before they dropped the broadcasting deal.

Not sure there was that much clamouring around Auckland for an A League club either. Lots of people thought there was an undercurrent of latent quiet football support in the 09, just off the size of the city and the number of people playing the sport in the upper Nth Island.

But really it was in the too hard basket there, until first that NZ Breakers part owner, and then Foley showed up with the dosh. Prior to that plenty of people on here were saying after the Kingz/Knights failures a new club in Auckland just wouldn't work.

The South Island has wealthy football fanatic Slava Meyn, and soon a spectacular go to destination stadium in downtown ChCh. But they will likewise need a super rich sports nut(s) to bankroll any new club. Again it could be a foreigner.

If anything the probable demise of WU, is a warning to any new expansion clubs/franchises, that you need that very rich backer prepared to stay the course, plus be in a catchment where min regular crowds of 6-7K should be expected. Preferably higher.

I really hope ChCh United gets a spot in the OFC Professional League. That league will be played as hubs so even if CU do get in they may not host any games. But the football community there would get some early indication of the local appetite for a possible A League club.

absolutely true statement regarding Auckland.  I remember Andrew Gourdie being really down on another akl rebirth.  So very wrong.

I like the idea too, and maybe it wouldn't be so hard to achieve.
An A league div 2 team should be a lot easier to keep afloat. Infrastructure already in place for some clubs at least, and wage bills a lot lower. Could start with an 8 team div 2, and relegate two (no promotion) in the first year. Two up two down thereafter.

coochiee

LG

theprof

quere th APL bail out of WU...

I hope so. I was hoping that one day we would see 16 teams with decent enough support, playing the A League. Not ready for it I guess. I hate seeing any team in any country go defunct. Well maybe make exception for the alleged "top 6" in the EPL.

Yeah I like the thought of the ALM one day getting to 20 teams, with an A1/A2 split and pro rel. That's because I love the late season drama of promotion/relegation.

But really that's all pipe dream stuff for awhile yet. Be interesting to see how the inaugural Championship (NPL clubs) goes later this year. Size of the crowds, quality of the football etc etc.

The NPL clubs will expousing the 'we told you so' narrative to the APL, and pushing for any possible future expansion in the big Australian cities to be existing NPL clubs. That's outside possible new 'franchises' in areas like Tassie and Christchurch.

I mean while there might have been naysayers, there was an original bid ready to go before Foley arrived. 

At least enough funding for two A league teams. 

Maybe the next one should be another Auckland team! North or West or South or some such…

Proud Cantab Ryan Nelsen, must know an American rich lister or two.

Sorry but dont see the Aussies just meekly allowing a 3rd team from NZ to join their competition. Dont think they care that its not really costing them to have us there. A lot of grassroots football dosnt seem to like the A League can you imagine the stink of an A League with 3 Kiwi teams.

It would be a decision for the APL. Nothing to do with what the NPL clubs want or care about.

The APL want more teams (product), and they want them to be stable financially. Easily the best new entrant in the league since WSW, in Auckland has come from NZ. And APL love those $20M licence fees.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/133459221/christchurch-united-president-slava-meyn-interested-in-aleague-football-franchise-bid

Pragnell said he will continue to talk with APL and Football Australia about the need for a South Island A-League club.

“Historically, the A-League is an Australasian league, not solely an Australian league that happens to have a New Zealand club in it. For a long time, the Phoenix have held on with somewhat of a threat hanging over their heads, that they were there by chance and lucky to be there.”

But now the A-Leagues had shown their commitment to New Zealand with the Auckland expansion, Pragnell said.

That made a South Island team the next logical step. “If you look at our geography, our population spread, the history of football in Christchurch, Dunedin, Nelson and other parts of the South Island, it’s an absolute must, strategically.

“It’s about us now having the influence, the advocacy and getting the right ownership group to come to the table.”

Pragnell was aware of Meyn’s A-League interest in the past, and he believed, if the APL were to go with a South Island A-League opportunity, “I think we’d see some people come out of the woodwork”.

He said the level of investment required “wealthy individuals who see the opportunity, or groups of people who are willing to partner”.

Foley, who also owns the Las Vegas Golden Knights National Hockey League franchise, has shares in French Ligue Un football club Lorient FC and is striving to invest in Scottish Premier League club Hibernian, was a “great example’’ of how a new A-League venture might appeal to multi-club ownerships.

NZF believed the country could support three A-League clubs, and it would strengthen the talent pathway and potentially lead to more All Whites and Football Ferns coming through the A-League.

Pragnell was also confident the South Island would get behind an A-League franchise.

“Christchurch has a deep football history, some of our oldest clubs come from there. We were rapt last year when we brought the [Football] Ferns down and hope to bring more international football back to Christchurch because of the support we got.

“The club networks are strong, there’s a strong federation, and Cantabs are well renowned for their support of their sports teams, and likewise across the whole of the South Island. And, as Christchurch has shown in the last few years, it’s a city on the up.”

Dont see how they can think a 3rd Kiwi club is a viable proposition. Crowds are an issue know a 3rd Kiwi club isnt going to do anything to attract crowds in Aussie. Might have nothing to do with NPL clubs but in many cases its their fans your trying to get to games and they struggle with that know.
Crowds would probably be good in NZ then not be at the same level in Aussie.
All well and good saying NZ can support 3 teams but its an Aussie competition and it wont survive if you turn off the fans over there. They struggle know with attendances people are kidding themselves if they think a third Kiwi team will help attendances in Australia.

If WU goes under then i think the league will likely take the time to try and stabilize and consolidate before looking to expand (beyond Canberra anyway).

By my count at least eight teams are struggling financially and the league doesn't have the ability to prop up teams anymore.

1. MacArthur are suing the FA because of losses and the fact that they were misled about income.

2. CCM doesn't seem to have a willing owner, rumor was Charlesworth was threatening to hand back their license next season.

3. Brisbane is constantly under a financial cloud.

4. The jets have been propped up by other clubs for years now.

5. Perth was recently in recievership.

6. Victory was trading while insolvent and couldn't keep on top of debt after Mario Biasin passed away.

7. Adelaide seems to run on a shoe string and theres plenty of rumors about them struggling financially.

8. And of course there's WU.


There's also rumors about Sydney which relied on Russian ownership to fund them.

ballane

Dont see how they can think a 3rd Kiwi club is a viable proposition. Crowds are an issue know a 3rd Kiwi club isnt going to do anything to attract crowds in Aussie. Might have nothing to do with NPL clubs but in many cases its their fans your trying to get to games and they struggle with that know.
Crowds would probably be good in NZ then not be at the same level in Aussie.
All well and good saying NZ can support 3 teams but its an Aussie competition and it wont survive if you turn off the fans over there. They struggle know with attendances people are kidding themselves if they think a third Kiwi team will help attendances in Australia.

But you are basically saying the CCM, Jets, Glory, Roar or say a Canberra team would draw a bigger crowd at AAMI Park against the VUC, than a NZ club. That ain’t the case.

Outside the Melb/Sydney/M3 derbies no Aus v Aus club game draws more fans than a Aus v Nix/AFC match. Maybe the Big Blue, nothing else

coochiee

ballane

Dont see how they can think a 3rd Kiwi club is a viable proposition. Crowds are an issue know a 3rd Kiwi club isnt going to do anything to attract crowds in Aussie. Might have nothing to do with NPL clubs but in many cases its their fans your trying to get to games and they struggle with that know.
Crowds would probably be good in NZ then not be at the same level in Aussie.
All well and good saying NZ can support 3 teams but its an Aussie competition and it wont survive if you turn off the fans over there. They struggle know with attendances people are kidding themselves if they think a third Kiwi team will help attendances in Australia.

But you are basically saying the CCM, Jets, Glory, Roar or say a Canberra team would draw a bigger crowd at AAMI Park against the VUC, than a NZ club. That ain’t the case.

Outside the Melb/Sydney/M3 derbies no Aus v Aus club game draws more fans than a Aus v Nix/AFC match. Maybe the Big Blue, nothing else

No im not there is more to it than that. As im sure your aware the A League isnt really that popular with grassroots football fans. There is no way adding an extra NZ team is going to help that with those people.
Also is there really the talent in NZ to sustain 3 A League teams and two teams in the new OFC competition. I cant see young players wanting to stay in NZ or come back to play if they are any good surely they are better trying to play in USA or Europe than here.
Unless someone finds another Foley it shouldnt even be considered for me im afraid. 

I haven't read of any angst from 'grassroots' Aussie football fans, about Auckland being in the ALM. Mostly I've just read stuff about a welcome good news story re a new start up club, after all the negative stuff about WU and Macarthur with their tiny crowds, financial woes etc.

The failure of the A League to engage some grassroots fans in Australia, is due to a range of factors. Biggest one being yes many of those aligned to the old NSL/NPL clubs, feel their outfits should be involved. Then you also get the likes of Brisbane Roar having spats with Football QLD, and the two organisations frequently squabbling.

However the Glory, Adelaide, Mariners seem reasonably popular in their communities. It's really all about on field success with them. They are winning and the fans turn up. If not they go to the beach. Adelaide U have maintained pretty good crowds. Lots of exciting local youngsters coming through for their fans to identify with.

A 3rd NZ club will have very little influence on whether a South Melbourne member turns up to watch the VUK, or same a APIA Leichhardt supporter and Sydney FC.

But you are right without a Foley, Mowbray/Williams, or Welnix group a 3rd club in Christchurch will never happen. It's unlikely to ever be a Bling club like Auckland either, just because ChCh/Sth Island is smaller and is far a less bling a place alround. More sheep station than super yacht. NZ's version of low key CCM maybe.

A 3rd team would yes stretch the talent pool, but Auckland with Gillion, Randall, Howieson, FDV etc have proved their is some A League ready talent on the domestic scene. 

McGarry (give him the captaincy) might want to return to the South Island. Andre De Jong played for Canty United back in the old Handy Prem. The likes of Deklan Wynne, Ryan Feutz, Zac Zoricich, George Ott & Seth Clark (a Cantab) are all NPL players that might be worth an ALM crack. Oliver Colloty is from Dunners? Same Xuan Loke. 
Callan Elliott & Jayden Smith are from Nelson. Scott Morris, Dublin Boon & Matt Foord are all talented young keepers from the Mainland. Grab Alex Grieve & Riley Bidois from the USL. OVH a 2nd chance in the A League. Jay Herdman I think was born in Invercargill!

ChCh almost feels like a Nottingham or pretty Huddersfield so should be able to attract some handy English lower league footballers, keen on a lifestyle change. Get in Ifill as coach to help scout Blighty for those with daughters keen to live at West Melton and ride ponies.

Not all the talented Weenix kids who played Wrexham will be able to crack the Nix senior squad. And re future proofing, after 10 seasons in the EPL a 35 yr old Surman could be keen on a return to his home town. Same Matt Sheridan after his time in L1/Championship. Francis de Vries is a Cantab as well and maybe could finish his career as a ball playing CB, rather than as a gut busting full back. Another captaincy option.

Should be able to put together a competitive enough squad. If they had an ALW team full of ex Pride players it would be very strong.

ballane

Sorry but dont see the Aussies just meekly allowing a 3rd team from NZ to join their competition. Dont think they care that its not really costing them to have us there. A lot of grassroots football dosnt seem to like the A League can you imagine the stink of an A League with 3 Kiwi teams.

The Australians that I can see are very, very happy with Auckland. None of the animus that the Nix have suffered. Success is popular.

ballane

Dont see how they can think a 3rd Kiwi club is a viable proposition. Crowds are an issue know a 3rd Kiwi club isnt going to do anything to attract crowds in Aussie. Might have nothing to do with NPL clubs but in many cases its their fans your trying to get to games and they struggle with that know.
Crowds would probably be good in NZ then not be at the same level in Aussie.
All well and good saying NZ can support 3 teams but its an Aussie competition and it wont survive if you turn off the fans over there. They struggle know with attendances people are kidding themselves if they think a third Kiwi team will help attendances in Australia.

South Island footy fans are an untapped resource though, just look at the fanbase in Auckland, sure theres some ex-nix up there but mostly they'renew fans who were desperate for a proper pro team - south Isalnd would be similar inattitude if not numbers.

Dont under estimate the dysfunctionality of Australian football either.

Us kiwi football fans have a history of focusing on and decrying our own administrative inadequacies. But we've got nothing on the Aussies. Just look at Ryan's post above, and that's only the A-League teams. The petty infighting and often ridiculous outcomes at grassroots level are also often quite astonishing.

What they do have, that we don't, is the market size.

What we can offer that market, is currently two, definitely in the future three, settled, well run and financed franchises.

Also, as the budgets lower, we become increasingly viable in regards to a player pool. 

And there’s got to be some players who wouldn’t mind a chance to live near the Alps and the rest of the South. Not many mountains in Oz at all. 

You mean the Alps that their professional contract wont allow them to ski on? Lol

martinb

And there’s got to be some players who wouldn’t mind a chance to live near the Alps and the rest of the South. Not many mountains in Oz at all. 

martinb

And there’s got to be some players who wouldn’t mind a chance to live near the Alps and the rest of the South. Not many mountains in Oz at all. 

Auckland's Louis Verstraete would love it. Apparently he's a very keen hiker.
Coming from Belgium, anything higher than Mt Eden would be a novelty.

Doloras

ballane

Sorry but dont see the Aussies just meekly allowing a 3rd team from NZ to join their competition. Dont think they care that its not really costing them to have us there. A lot of grassroots football dosnt seem to like the A League can you imagine the stink of an A League with 3 Kiwi teams.

The Australians that I can see are very, very happy with Auckland. None of the animus that the Nix have suffered. Success is popular.

Having visited in the last 18 months 3 major cities and attended local football events. I spoke to a heap of people and yes some were happy with the success of the introduction of Auckland. But there are still plenty really unhappy with the A League and the fact that NZ teams are even there.

As for the Glory,Adelaide and Mariners yes all 3 have some really good core fans. All 3 have managed to increase their average crowds from what they were 4 years ago despite some indifferent results. But surley coochiee you have seen the issues all 3 have faced recently. Speaking to some of the Glory fans that were here for their tour of duty yep they all expressed support for the team but many were also extremely unhappy with the governance of the club. Adelaide's and Mariners issues are well documented and its going to be interesting to see if Adelaide's issues affect crowds this season.   

Big difference between naming a heap of possible future players for a third team and actually convincing them to come back and take part. We have seen recently the preference of some young Kiwi players to stay overseas rather than come back to NZ to play even with an upcoming WC.
Sorry you wont convince me a third team is a good option at the moment would much prefer to see both  current teams consistently taking part in playoffs. If people are serious about the OFC Championship would have thought that should be running successfully before a 3rd team.

My point was the likes of Glory, Adelaide and the Mariners are well embedded in their local football communities, and whether 'grassroot' fans turn up to watch them is yes more about how successful they are onfield. 

Glory is an NSL club from way back, and Adelaide United played in the last season of the NSL basically being created out of the ashes of Adelaide City which had folded. The old NSL club verus plastic A League franchise angst is really confined to Melbs & Sydney.

The above 3 clubs and the Jets all have issues, but I doubt their fans give much of a fudge about Auckland or even a 3rd NZ team coming into the League. Again Auckland have been an overdue welcome good news story re ALM expansion. Bought a sense of optimism that pro club football in Australasia can not only survive but grow.

And yes the likes of Singh, Just and Waine have chosen to stay in Europe when I'm sure the Nix and Auckland have reached out. But plenty did return from overseas to sign for AFC. Pijnaker, Rogerson, Mata, Elliott, Woud. Apart from Nando none of them are really established AW squad members. And that's likely the tier you mostly target if setting up a 3rd NZ club. Fringe AWs. Ambitious young Kiwis being a level below the ALM (USL, NPL, LOI, Canada, 2nd/3rd tier Scotland etc). With the odd veteran like say a McGarry. Plus you need some old head visa players, and some Australians.

And yeah I hope ChCh United is accepted to the OFC Pro League. It's going to be another good professional pathway for young Kiwi players. Sth Island football fans are starved of anything above domestic club stuff. But the ALM will be steps above. You won't be recruited to Bournemouth or Portland from this OFC League. This new league will be of far greater importance to the Island nations, than us. The more Kiwis playing A League the better.

Pragnell & NZF want a 3rd NZ team. The APL will be onboard if it's a sound financial case, backed by it's own version of Foley or Welnix. Got the shiny new downtown rectangular stadium in 9 months. Lets see what happens over the next few years.

Doloras

ballane

Sorry but dont see the Aussies just meekly allowing a 3rd team from NZ to join their competition. Dont think they care that its not really costing them to have us there. A lot of grassroots football dosnt seem to like the A League can you imagine the stink of an A League with 3 Kiwi teams.

The Australians that I can see are very, very happy with Auckland. None of the animus that the Nix have suffered. Success is popular.

often the negativity the Nix received was the perception the nix were blocking Australian teams from participating, however the poor performance off the pitch of many teams (especially expansion teams) has quelled that line of attack.

Being a NZ team in the A-League is like being a woman in a traditionally male profession - you need to be twice as good to get half the respect :D

Doloras

Being a NZ team in the A-League is like being a woman in a traditionally male profession - you need to be twice as good to get half the respect :D

Nix and AFC will always be DEI irrespective of performance or qualifications

Doloras

As far as I can tell from what their fans say, right now South Melbourne has no interest in being part of the  "plastic, doomed" A-League and is concentrating on the Australian Championship and OFC Professional League

Rightly or wrongly, RNZ seems to think otherwise:

With Western United having their A-League licence revoked last week for financial reasons, pending appeal, South Melbourne will have even more motivation to knock over an A-League opponent.

coochiee

martinb

And there’s got to be some players who wouldn’t mind a chance to live near the Alps and the rest of the South. Not many mountains in Oz at all. 

Auckland's Louis Verstraete would love it. Apparently he's a very keen hiker.
Coming from Belgium, anything higher than Mt Eden would be a novelty.

 
In fairness, that’s the Netherlands you’re thinking of and not Belgium. Their highest peak is far higher than anything Auckland has to offer.

Signal de Botrange is the highest point in Wallonia and in Belgium, located in the High Fens, at 694 metres.

Yipe about 3 Mt Edens, but I'd still back my 78 yr old mum to get up and back in a few hours.

WU have paid wages early and are refusing to release players.

https://www.friendsoffootballnz.com/2025/08/13/listen-how-western-united-went-from-a-league-champions-to-losing-licence/

ABC News (Australia) have produced a 15-minute podcast looking into Western United’s plight, featuring The Age football writer Vince Rugari, who has been closely following the story.

Listen here
https://youtu.be/27JkkHTlBWU

interesting listen, sounds like the club is buggered, feel sorry for aloisi who is a decent coach

WOW

Two Japanese soccer players have admitted they engaged in corrupt conduct by placing bets on one man receiving yellow cards during A-League games.

Riku Danzaki, 25, and his co-offender Yuta Hirayama, 27, faced the Melbourne Magistrates Court on Wednesday where they each pleaded guilty to seven betting corruption charges.

Together the pair placed bets on Danzaki, then a midfielder for Western United, to receive a caution during four top-level games in April and May this year.

Sad. A blight on the game.
At least they are catching them (though naive to think everyone is getting caught). 

And if your career is now basically over at 25 & 27, ie they cop lengthy bans - then will be a big deterrent for others to try this shark.

Give them lengthy bans and same Lewis plus Davila.

It’s odd given the pressure on the league that there are no Aussies involved at all. Or is that too cynical? 

Still really angry about the dickhead way the Sydney cops put on military attack squad gear with, I assume military grade rifles, and photographed an identifiable Lewis in his underwear while having a laugh. 

Soccer foreigner. 

There was talk about Aussies being involved but only one got charged and certainly didn’t seem to get the treatment above. 

The way of it I guess. 

If it is just the two of them and not related to wider organised crime, they also have to compare to say Matt le Tissier or more practically say Ivan Toney. It’s a dumb thing to do but it shouldn’t on the latter precedent end their careers, even if sentiment coming off the Davila case might make us angry. Gambling is a huge social problem, especially in Aussie.

If well paid foreigners are getting caught out, there must be a few Aussies too, unless the foreign boys have the gambling addiction of a certain ex Nixie.

martinb

It’s odd given the pressure on the league that there are no Aussies involved at all. Or is that too cynical? 

Still really angry about the dickhead way the Sydney cops put on military attack squad gear with, I assume military grade rifles, and photographed an identifiable Lewis in his underwear while having a laugh. 

Soccer foreigner. 

There was talk about Aussies being involved but only one got charged and certainly didn’t seem to get the treatment above. 

The way of it I guess. 

If it is just the two of them and not related to wider organised crime, they also have to compare to say Matt le Tissier or more practically say Ivan Toney. It’s a dumb thing to do but it shouldn’t on the latter precedent end their careers, even if sentiment coming off the Davila case might make us angry. Gambling is a huge social problem, especially in Aussie.

Big difference with Ivan Toney though.  He was only charged (as was Tonoli at Newcastle) with placing bets.  Neither had anything to do with doing something on field to try and influence betting outcomes, as per two former players of ours or these two this week.  Totally different scenario.

Yeah not sure any of Davila, Lewis, Baccus or the WU pair have gambling problems. Just lured in by the prospect of an easy $10K.

Have some sympathy for Davila (tragic loss of his wife) and even Clayton. But now with Danzaki & Hirayama at WU pleading guilty for the same crime, it shows how widespread this shark can become. 

Tough for all of them, but the easiest and quickest way to stamp out this blight on the game is lengthy, even life time playing bans. Anything less, and you still leave a temptation there for others to replicate.

coochiee

Yeah not sure any of Davila, Lewis, Baccus or the WU pair have gambling problems. Just lured in by the prospect of an easy $10K.

Have some sympathy for Davila (tragic loss of his wife) and even Clayton. But now with Danzaki & Hirayama at WU pleading guilty for the same crime, it shows how widespread this shark can become. 

Tough for all of them, but the easiest and quickest way to stamp out this blight on the game is lengthy, even life time playing bans. Anything less, and you still leave a temptation there for others to replicate.

Risks increase at lower levels of the game where salaries are not high but global betting on outcomes is still quite significant.

Just out of curiosity why would you have sympathy for Lewis?

coochiee

Yeah not sure any of Davila, Lewis, Baccus or the WU pair have gambling problems. Just lured in by the prospect of an easy $10K.

Have some sympathy for Davila (tragic loss of his wife) and even Clayton. But now with Danzaki & Hirayama at WU pleading guilty for the same crime, it shows how widespread this shark can become. 

Tough for all of them, but the easiest and quickest way to stamp out this blight on the game is lengthy, even life time playing bans. Anything less, and you still leave a temptation there for others to replicate.

Because he's a Kiwi I guess. A bit of stupidity and your career seemingly over. World Cup dreams crushed. Very public humiliation. Something that will tarnish him wherever he goes for life.

I don't think he's a nasty human being or anything. A young guy in his 20s who did a very very dumb thing. Similar to how I have some sympathy for Lou Vincent in a way. Neither perhaps the sharpest going around.

Certainly more sympathetic to Vincent (who a good mate knew very well), than Player X who I once briefly met.

I have read a few reports on football gambling including a very good one in the Guardian. The concensus is that its very common. Particularly in smaller leagues where the wages are lower and theres more temptation for a player to take some cash. It doesnt suprise me at all that we are seeing it in the A League. This all comes from organised crime gambling syndicates. Yes, its good to punish the players involved but it would be nice to catch the ring leaders too

Perhaps a solution is to insert as the first clause in any player contract could be along the lines of "If found guilty of participating in any sports betting within your code (Football) for any reason will result in immediate contract cessation and a permanent ban from all forms of your code (Playing/Coaching/Administrative employment) (Football) thereafter."

Make it legally compulsory to be the first clause in every contract. Thus allowing them to bet on other sports but not their own. Other views??