2010/11 starting 11

  

Leo was tried in a more central role quite early last season, with very limited success

I thought Troy was signed as an attacking midfielder he played as a numbrer10 for australia u/20 and looking at is profile on ffa site scored goals at a good rate per game maybe he could be an option

yeh he had a good end to a season as part of a front 3 of him Leo and Smeltz. Quite a different vision pace wise to Mac, Greenie and Ifill.

I really like how you people have decided Toto is garbage despite having seen him play 10 minutes of a game 2-days after landing in the country.

Some have seen more than just those 10 minutes.

The game in Wairarapa? training? I still struggle to see how this qualifies people to pass judgement just yet.

And Ricki's always signed top players, hasn't he.

Not enough to pass judgment perhaps, but early signs aren't too flash.

Well, I was apparently a better judge of player with Diego when he signed :P

We're going on what we have seen and heard and past experiences with these sorts of players.

The fact that we're talking about playing a 3-4-3 points to Ricki not being confident enough in Toto's abilities to play a formation that hinges on a good AM.valeo2010-08-04 21:13:17

That's how you most effectively play 3-4-3.  It's the classic Eastern European 3-4-1-2 (although most have moved away from 3 at the back)...with a playmakerjames dean2010-08-04 21:18:17

So you're saying that Phoenix stuff can evaluate a player and see he has the goods on the basis of less than 90 minutes of game football and a few training runs, while Phoenix fans (many of whom are fairly knowledgable about the game) cannot express their doubts about him based on the very similar body of evidence?

Hmmm.

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And this means that they can't differentiate a good player from a bad one? Because they don't get paid to? Don't get me wrong, obviously the professional managers/coaches know what they're doing (if they don't, they get found out and sent packing pretty quickly), but if we just accepted that they know better and should never be questioned, what's the point of talking about this stuff anyway?

On this very forum, different people at different times have pointed out that, on the basis of a very similar body of evidence to Toto's, that:

1) Cleberson was a dud;
2) G** was a dud;
3) Mulligan was a dud;
4) Diego was a dud.

And all those players were signed by 'professionals'. And there's nothing really wrong with that, it's the nature of the game. Sometimes you make a mistake, sometimes you see something in someone you think you can bring out and then fail to, sometimes players just never settle into a role in the team they were meant to, or don't settle well in the new city, or whatever. It happens. And you don't have to be intimately involved with the team to see these things happen, and you should most certainly be free to pass comment upon them. Otherwise, what's the point of forums like this? Why not just shut the place down, read the press releases that the club puts out, and let the professionals do their job.
el grapadura2010-08-04 21:47:23

Totally with you, EG....sometimes things just don't work out.  Look at this from a press release dated 20 May 2007....

Can we at least agree though that we should see a decent sample (especially considering the different circumstances of different players) before people pass judgement?

Can I just make a few points...

Pffft... I've slagged lot's of our signings early on.  Generally it makes them come good.

Therefore, I think he's f**king rubbish.  We should have signed Judy Garland's dog instead.  In fact my 'shock of the season' is Bambang to be signed and be the number 10 we hoped Toto would be.

Fair enough JD, but sometimes you just get a "gut feel" about someone...they don't always turn out to be right, but sometimes they are.  Of course, they should never be confused with a properly informed opinion.

Fair enough.  I think a player like him is key to bridging the gap between us and the top 4 so I would be spending the first half of the season getting him ready to play in the league without too many expectations and hope for him to play more of a part in the second half. 

Its true it might take Toto half a season to adjust to the A-league. He's played all his life in Latin America. He's used to that style.....lots of short passing, quick player movement, quick counterattacks. He's in an Anglo environment now..also .he only speaks Spanish.

Ditto - I think it was just my expectation that we'd go all out for a creative midfielder after last season and Toto seems like a bit of a last gasp signing.

Hope i'm wrong, of course.

I have the same feeling, but I just keep reminding myself how long Hernandez took to settle.