2024 Australia Cup Rnd of 32 vs South Melbourne | 6th August | 9:30pm | Football Australia YouTube

That's genuinely the least disappointed I've been about an early cup exit - Like, I'm not even mad about it. 

The only downside for me is now the lack of competitive football leading into the season proper. Tonight's game is the type of fixture we need about 3-4 weeks out from the start of the season, not like 9-10 weeks or whatever it works out to be. Shoot me down if you feel the need to, but that's how I see it anyway.

The young brigade did themselves no disservice really. If we'd got touched up 4 or 5-0 then I'd be a bit more worried, but that wasn't the case. First half was far better than the second mind you, but it is what it is.

A few comments on some of the players performances;
• GSR was lively for his 60 odd minutes. I like his willingness to drive forward and take on defenders, which he did with a varying degree of success. His decision making will improve with more opportunities, but he's only 17 and I like what I see with his positive play. I don't want to compare him to Oldie too much, but there is a lot I see in him that makes me go 'He'll equip himself well at A-League level.

• Walker was busy throughout, and I like that - Some good delivery and again, that willingness to take on a man which adds a nice point of difference. Faded a bit as the game wore on, but I liked him drifting in and looking for the ball as the game wore on (after subs). Raw as all hell but there is a player in there. Needs a bit of work on the strength side of things, but that will come the longer he's involved in the setup. Didn't look out of his depth whatsoever.

• Matt Sheridan was my MotM for the Nix. Positive forward thinking player who was happy to push forward down the right and looked very comfortable on the ball. Hardly looked rushed and went looking for work. Set piece delivery was decent, and I really liked his hustle. Busted his ass a couple of times tracking back when they did threaten. Hopefully see more of him this season, although it will be hard to knock the pre-eminent Payne off his starting perch, but good to see some talent popping up in that troublesome RB position. Handy looking player if we didn't realize that already.

• Hughes was solid if unspectacular at CB. A few sloppy giveaways aside, he was good on the ball and made some excellent tackles and interventions to break up their play tonight. Looks like he's odds on to step in to the XI for the now departed Finn Surman, but it is well deserved. Big shoes to fill at the back though, but given he's got a taste in the A-League already, I feel he's more than ready for that shot as a full-time CB.

• Candy looked alright when he came on. Liked the willingness to play the 1-2's and the intricate stuff and short passing in and around the box in the dying stages. Probably can't form enough of a judgement on him at this stage, but one to keep an eye out for perhaps.

Disappointments tonight for me were LKH & Conchie to be honest. Expected more given their exposure to first team footy last season, but alas it wasn't either of their day's today. LKH looking terribly risk averse compared to the progressive and positive style that was employed down the opposite side with Sheridan. Made it a bit too easy for South Melbourne to just stand off him a bit and watch him play it backwards, or back to where it came from, or just wait until he tried a chipped ball over the top which was easily dealt with by their defence anyway.

Conchie was pretty much anonymous which was disappointing for me as I expected him to really push to be involved in that midfield this season - Even with the strong competition he faces. Can't recall a single really nice positive bit of play that he was involved in tonight. Maybe that's harsh, but I'm really wracking my brain and can't think of anything of note at all. A missed opportunity for him to show what he can offer.

Supyk a bit anonymous up top as well, just needed more of a connection on that chance in the first 10 minutes and I'd be singing his praises, but alas he didn't end up with much to write home about in the end.

Alby Kelly-Heald didn't really have much to do apart from pick the ball out of the net after 5 minutes. Looked slow to get off his line when they played the ball in behind and into the box a couple of times, and a few nervy moments. Can't really expect too much else from him yet though, especially after Chiefy has said it's a 99% certainty that they'll be bringing an import in for that #1 spot.

Others were serviceable without bringing that cutting edge that we needed to claw the goal back. Like I said earlier, good first half, and a bit lacklustre in the second, which was not unexpected. Well from where I was sitting anyway.


Harsh? Fair?

All very nicely put. To be honest though, the only player that I actually liked was Matt Sheridan. Some of the others, it looks like we're desperately hoping that we can make a team of academy graduates. 
I only watched 60 minutes before I fell asleep. We had good possession but absolutely nothing to offer going forward. There were no cutting Rufer or Pennington passes. At the 60 minutes point I would suggest that 2-0 MS would have been fair.

We do keep saying that we played a youth side, which is true, but SM were also short a few players and had a very quick turn around from a big match. Credit to them for getting the job done.

Can't say it was a tactically fun match to watch though, two not very exciting teams slog it out. Was hoping to see a few more interesting things from Chiefy tactics wise but hopefully that'll come once the season starts. To me the Mariners proved last season that you can play exciting football on a budget and get the job done, would love to see us be a bit more fun.

Well that sucks. Yes we played our kids but still, an early cup exit has to be a disappointment for any pro club. Especially against an amateur team.

Do we actually want to win something one day? Absolutely gutted, what a weak display. Guess the trophy cabinet will stay empty for a little longer. At this rate Auckland FC will win a comp before we do.

Don't care what some on here say, I stand by it - Not good enough 

Agree with the player comments up the thread. So trying here for some more big picture thoughts ....

Tactically kind of like the A League team from last year, holding possesion and patience, but with a back three and no real fast transition, and Sth Melb not leaving a lot of space to transition into, except wide.

Up against a good defensive side able to sit with nine or eleven back much of the game.

Good work out and expectations setting for the youngsters.

Can't read too much into that. I'd say one or two of the youngsters showed they have potential as players with impact and guile and others looked like the solid sort of worthy starters. None really out of place but a couple we might have hoped to see more from and maybe showed why they didn't get minutes last year or are still not having the impact you'd love them to show. I think I'd like to have seen OVH and Supyk both playing up front, with enough midfielders on the field and the back three allowing that?
But it's early days at this level for most and new combinations so tough to be too tough.   

Wooten and Al Taay solid but never game winning players. Kosta added bite and looked sharp but given little room by Sth Melb. Not a lot of time or possession for Rojas.

Never easy against a well drilled side able to set up defensively after the goal and a young side trying to break that down. But we needed some special sauce to get a clean shot and/or some height to cross to and didn't have either. Good work out.

A noticeable pick up in urgency for the last 15mins, otherwise preseason pace, particularly in the second half.

Like most I wasnt surprised with the result last night. The starting lineup was predominantly academy grads, who looked decent enough and caused SM some problems later in the first half, we dominated possession and shots on goal. Their only goal came from a well worked play and a decent shot from an experienced campaigner. Had Supyk had any of the composure required it would have been 1-1 within 20 mins. Game looked very different when Kosta and Marco came on. This is just the result of having our senior players all in contention for the national team.

I assume this is how spurs fans feel on a regular basis. Anyway all things considered that could've been way worse. we conceded early, sure, but that was an early error we never made again. So seeing as we were missing like 7 of our start IX from last season I think they did well. Nice to see Loke and AKH having some highlight moments.

Was very impressed with that Loke kid that came on as a sub. He was rapid and gave it everything, was looking forward to try and create something everytime he got the ball. In comparison to LKH who just passed the ball back to the LCB every single time he got it

Cant argue with that showing for the first match of preseason, while players are just arriving back from Olympics and age group OFC comps.

Good audition from a few youngsters to earn some minutes that mean something. Walker, GSR, Gillion, AKH, Hughes, Loke and Sheridan (in no particular order) all upping their stock for mine while Conchie was poor and LKH uninspiring. Good to get some minutes in the legs of Rojas, he'll need to be built up slowly and its only going to be up from here!

My thoughts...
We need more of a target up top - we are too small, to weak to compete for crosses.
OVH was wasteful in possession - needed to show the way but was arguably our poorest attacking option.
Al Tay and Conchie, both disappointing. Both went backwards and sideways with their passing too often. Tactics maybe, but no creativity shown, which is a shame as I think that is one of Conchies strengths... he's not a DM.
Barbs and Rojas already look to have a nice combo going... looks tastey for the season proper.
Young kids did well, minus Supyk IMO.

Wow, I'm genuinely surprised at some of the negative comments - I went to sleep feeling pretty good about it. 

It definitely wasn't the most thrilling match I've ever watched, but who would have expected that anyway? It was our first game in a long while, against a team praised for having done very well so far, and we mostly played untested babies. I honestly thought we'd see a significantly more disjointed performance and the fact that we only condeded one (soft) goal felt encouraging.

I really liked how confident some of our youngest players looked on the ball! No apparent debut nerves, with little stepovers and quick passes here and there. It was pretty fun to watch.
I felt that OVH was the recipient of some sharkty (and somewhat illegal) tackles and yet he ran all night, up and down the pitch. Yes, he did fudge up that shot - but as we all know by now, you won't get them all in.
Sheridan was great overall and Walker clearly has a ton of potential.

I don't consider myself a "half glass full" kind of person at the best of times but, geez, some of you guys take the cake! 

Only saw bits & pieces around the kid's bedtime routine, but yeah equally impressed by the confidence of the young Academy lads. This time last year I'd never really heard of LK-H or Hughes. So you feel that last night 2-3 hopefully announced themselves in the same way for this season.

Real shame conceded that early goal. Had read pre game that SM were mostly a counter attacking team, but I expected more from them as the best VIC NPL side, well into their season, against basically a scratch Nix team. After the goal AK-H was barely tested. That 5th min goal just allowed SM to park the bus from pretty early on. 

As Chief said at Welly Airport it's been a very disrupted pre season to date. Players only recently returning from OFC U19 champs in Samoa, others only returning from the Olympics a few days ago, Petre, Payne, Rufer & presumably Ball not yet ready to travel & play. Italiano basically juggling trying to win the tie, around player welfare and availability.

To me the Nix look very sound & stable for the new season. Just need a few exciting visa players now. GK & striker, both possibly on loan.

I keep reading "kids, academy players, untested etc"

But aren't our academy players supposed to be the best talent NZ has on offer? Or at least they should be given that up until now we've been the only pro club in the country.

I understand they're young and all that but they also play games regularly and get top level coaching so I don't think it's unreasonable to be disappointed with the result and expect a bit more.

InsulinMachine

I keep reading "kids, academy players, untested etc"

But aren't our academy players supposed to be the best talent NZ has on offer? Or at least they should be given that up until now we've been the only pro club in the country.

I understand they're young and all that but they also play games regularly and get top level coaching so I don't think it's unreasonable to be disappointed with the result and expect a bit more.

I agree to an extent. We are a very disjointed team right now, with lots of player outgoings confirmed and not many incomings at this stage.

Having to draft in a bunch of inexperienced young players (good as they are) to go up against a team that's currently winning their league by six points was always going to be a tough ask.

It's not really fair to expect them to instantly come away with anything from a game like that, in my opinion. They showed glimpses of what they can offer in a season or two, and I'm sure that's all Chiefy could really ask of them right now.
 
One thing we can all agree on is that the scheduling of the Australia Cup never really worked for us! Still lots of recruitment to do, as well as working on the overall cohesion of the squad.

InsulinMachine

I keep reading "kids, academy players, untested etc"

But aren't our academy players supposed to be the best talent NZ has on offer? Or at least they should be given that up until now we've been the only pro club in the country.

I understand they're young and all that but they also play games regularly and get top level coaching so I don't think it's unreasonable to be disappointed with the result and expect a bit more.

It's basically the best young talent in NZ outside of an ALM first team vs the best senior talent in Australia outside of an ALM first team (top of the Vic NPL). Both teams had smatterings of players with ALM experience - and then Wootton and al Tay for the Nix. The Nix Academy gets routinely beaten by teams in their NZ national level leagues.

I'm mostly just happy to see there's still a lot of young raw talent coming through, mixed with slight disappointment that there won't be any more meaningful games for a while now.

I saw things a little differently. 

I thought after they scored OVH and GSR were out two most dangerous players. Then South Melbourne shut down those attacks by doubling up on GSR and I’m not sure on the other flank, perhaps marking tighter on the wing forward. 

After that we didn’t really have as much success on attack. 
LKH did get a few dangerous early deliveries into the back post, but we didn’t have Zawada or Tim Brown attacking them. 
GSR had a moment where he went through his two markers but couldn’t hit the target.

We really lacked Kraev, Ball or Old who could beat players and play a one-two. 

Marco could be in that category, but needs to toughen up a little. It’s also a bit unfair to read into that too much as he has been most successful playing on the transition similarly to Kosta last season rather than against a low block. He did have one moment where he dribbled into the box, drew defenders and laid off to a teammate who wasn’t quite expecting the ball. 

As well they were happy to sit deep and defend, and have long periods of no possession. Hard for Supyk and others to put in a case for their transition play, which will be required against most of the A league teams.

It's preseason. Auckland FC with 8 AWs/ex AWs plus a two time ALM premiership winner all starting, in their first pre season hitout only managed a 2-2 draw. Against an opponent playing in lower level comp than the VIC NPL. And all AFC had to do was drive across town rather than hop on an airplane.

Not bothered by the result, the commentators were annoying and one of them was particularly biased. 

Kosta and Rojas linking up very early on is very promising for the season ahead. 

I reckon Chiefy is experimenting with the 3-4-3 for now. 

We saw the 4-2-4 in last year's cup but ended up playing a 4-3-3 in the season. 

Chief did say in this cup game he'd choose a formation to suit the players he had available

Vampires would hate our club. There were so many crosses going in for no return. We missed having a Big fella in the middle to receive them. So we know our wing play and crosses are almost in order. Shooting and finishing needs lots of work. Defence was pretty good despite a couple of bad passes that gave the ball away.

The reality is that a lot of first teamer's were not played. Even in this season's squad. Sad we lost 8 players but we move on and the base is there. We missed Rufer bringing the ball out of defence. 

Lastly, this squad have only been together as such for 2 weeks. Their opposition are top of their league halfway through the season, so they are match fit and play like a team. Our guys are still getting it sorted. 

The only thing that peeves me is that it's 2 months before we really see what's going on.

https://theniche-cache.com/football/2024/8/7/the-wellington-phoenix-deployed-the-youngsters-and-got-knocked-out-of-the-aussie-cup#google_vignette

One piece of the puzzle that remains elusive is how Marco Rojas will be unleashed. Chiefy has intimated that they’ll adapt the tactics in order to suit Rojas’ playmaking abilities but here we mostly just saw them trying to play the way they ended last season, with Rojas operating as a roaming left-winger. It’s too soon for anything else to have been concocted and deployed so that much stays cryptic.

There are pretty obvious improvements to be made. All you have to do is chuck Tim Payne, Sam Sutton, Alex Rufer, and Paolo Retre into the eleven. Perhaps some David Ball too... though after a goalless 2024-25 campaign his role could be a slippery one. Is Italiano content to have Ball as an attacking utility working tirelessly for others with excellent leadership qualities? He might be. Or he might want to figure out a role that better puts Bally into dangerous areas like he achieved in reviving Kosta Barbarouses’ goal-scoring efficiency. They need to be improving in attack regardless, especially since the departures of Surman and Paulsen means they cannot guarantee they’ll be able to repeat their prior defensive mastery. Marco Rojas can’t do it all by himself.

In that light, the four teenaged forwards who got minutes (GSR, Supyk, Walker & Candy) have done well to distinguish themselves above the crowd. There could easily be openings for them to pop up and make a difference throughout the season. It’s also interesting that Chris Greenacre’s NZ U19s team gave fellow WeeNixers Ryan Watson (298 min) and Daniel Makowem (213) more minutes than Candy (191), Walker (190), or GSR (149) got in that tournament... yet the Phoenix themselves have shown they rate these lads higher through their selection here (unless there are injuries we don’t know about).  

That leaves centre-back as the most intriguing position. Isaac Hughes may have been part of a losing team but he was one of the more impressive fellas out there in yellow. He’s always been a skilled defender so of course he had more than a hundred touches and completed 80/91 (88%) of his passes. And he’s also shown he knows how to batten down the hatches by winning headers, hoofing clearances, and blocking shots. What was cool to see from him against South Melbourne was how comfortable he looked. Lunging into tackles and seeking to move the ball. The Nix will be covering all their bases over the next couple months but don’t discount Isaac Hughes’ chances of being a week one starter.

He’s in the same situation that Finn Surman was twelve months ago and look how that turned out. This is also why it’s curious that Dylan Gardiner was the CB on the bench, given that there are older and arguably more established blokes in the WeeNix (such as Seth Karunaratne). But Gardiner’s presence tells us that he is the defener that the club reckons has the highest ALM potential. It’s always good to learn these things.  

To anyone still feeling gutted or disappointed about our loss, Heidelberg, who are currently sitting four places lower than SM on the VIC NPL table, have just beaten CCM 3-1. 

CCM were fielding a squad, including their subs, with an average age of 23 years compared to our starting eleven against SM which was 20.8, our youngest ever.

coochiee

https://theniche-cache.com/football/2024/8/7/the-wellington-phoenix-deployed-the-youngsters-and-got-knocked-out-of-the-aussie-cup#google_vignette

One piece of the puzzle that remains elusive is how Marco Rojas will be unleashed. Chiefy has intimated that they’ll adapt the tactics in order to suit Rojas’ playmaking abilities but here we mostly just saw them trying to play the way they ended last season, with Rojas operating as a roaming left-winger. It’s too soon for anything else to have been concocted and deployed so that much stays cryptic.

There are pretty obvious improvements to be made. All you have to do is chuck Tim Payne, Sam Sutton, Alex Rufer, and Paolo Retre into the eleven. Perhaps some David Ball too... though after a goalless 2024-25 campaign his role could be a slippery one. Is Italiano content to have Ball as an attacking utility working tirelessly for others with excellent leadership qualities? He might be. Or he might want to figure out a role that better puts Bally into dangerous areas like he achieved in reviving Kosta Barbarouses’ goal-scoring efficiency. They need to be improving in attack regardless, especially since the departures of Surman and Paulsen means they cannot guarantee they’ll be able to repeat their prior defensive mastery. Marco Rojas can’t do it all by himself.

In that light, the four teenaged forwards who got minutes (GSR, Supyk, Walker & Candy) have done well to distinguish themselves above the crowd. There could easily be openings for them to pop up and make a difference throughout the season. It’s also interesting that Chris Greenacre’s NZ U19s team gave fellow WeeNixers Ryan Watson (298 min) and Daniel Makowem (213) more minutes than Candy (191), Walker (190), or GSR (149) got in that tournament... yet the Phoenix themselves have shown they rate these lads higher through their selection here (unless there are injuries we don’t know about).  

That leaves centre-back as the most intriguing position. Isaac Hughes may have been part of a losing team but he was one of the more impressive fellas out there in yellow. He’s always been a skilled defender so of course he had more than a hundred touches and completed 80/91 (88%) of his passes. And he’s also shown he knows how to batten down the hatches by winning headers, hoofing clearances, and blocking shots. What was cool to see from him against South Melbourne was how comfortable he looked. Lunging into tackles and seeking to move the ball. The Nix will be covering all their bases over the next couple months but don’t discount Isaac Hughes’ chances of being a week one starter.

He’s in the same situation that Finn Surman was twelve months ago and look how that turned out. This is also why it’s curious that Dylan Gardiner was the CB on the bench, given that there are older and arguably more established blokes in the WeeNix (such as Seth Karunaratne). But Gardiner’s presence tells us that he is the defener that the club reckons has the highest ALM potential. It’s always good to learn these things.  

Our attack is so short right now. We have, once again, no point of difference. Zawada offered that, even if he wasnt scoring his presence was causing defenders to cover him because they knew he had the height to reach a cross so it made them nervous. Now, with probably the shortest attacking unit in the league, defenders will be a lot less concerned that Kosta or Rojas are gonna get on the end of a cross. So there is very little point in playing wingers as they have noone to get the ball to. Even our midfielders offer very little height.

Wusty Wab

To anyone still feeling gutted or disappointed about our loss, Heidelberg, who are currently sitting four places lower than SM on the VIC NPL table, have just beaten CCM 3-1. 

CCM were fielding a squad, including their subs, with an average age of 23 years compared to our starting eleven against SM which was 20.8, our youngest ever.

This does make things a bit better haha

CC though do have one or two other trophies to console themselves with.

Seeing the CCM lose worse than we did made me very happy. Call me Kendrick how I'll hate on them any chance I get

I’ve gotta say, despite the loss, man does it feel better to see our young fellas playing instead of Luka Prso and Matthew Bozinovski just a few years ago

Wusty Wab

To anyone still feeling gutted or disappointed about our loss, Heidelberg, who are currently sitting four places lower than SM on the VIC NPL table, have just beaten CCM 3-1. 

CCM were fielding a squad, including their subs, with an average age of 23 years compared to our starting eleven against SM which was 20.8, our youngest ever.

They have been spoiled with trophy's these last 2 years, I'm sure they can handle it

Nelfoos

Cant argue with that showing for the first match of preseason, while players are just arriving back from Olympics and age group OFC comps.

Good audition from a few youngsters to earn some minutes that mean something. Walker, GSR, Gillion, AKH, Hughes, Loke and Sheridan (in no particular order) all upping their stock for mine while Conchie was poor and LKH uninspiring. Good to get some minutes in the legs of Rojas, he'll need to be built up slowly and its only going to be up from here!

Quote from above by YH: Conchie was pretty much anonymous which was disappointing for me as I expected him to really push to be involved in that midfield this season - Even with the strong competition he faces. Can't recall a single really nice positive bit of play that he was involved in tonight. Maybe that's harsh, but I'm really wracking my brain and can't think of anything of note at all. A missed opportunity for him to show what he can offer.


I didn't see the game but from what I've seen and read about Conchie, he really doesn't seem all that great. I've never been impressed by his performances as a Nix player and he's not shown much when in and around the AW/Olympic environment. 

Has he been over hyped the way Christie, Pelter, Draper and Old were back in the day?

Conchie stood out at last year's U20 WC. I feel it's hard to judge him on his first ALM season, as he seemed to mostly come on with the Nix lying deep trying to perserve a lead or draw on the road. Certainly that's my memory when I went to the Roar game last season at Suncorp.

But now he has a royal opportunity with Pennington and Salas leaving, to step up. Though Retre's signing will limit his mins. But yeah it's up to Conchie to graft away at training, work hard, and say to Chief pick me. He has some talent, as Argentina last year showed. He works hard, always seeking to improve each day, he'll get chances. Up to him. At his age Rufer had his share of very strong critics. Look at him now. Might take time with Conchie as well.

Brown, Lia, Ridenton, a young Rufer, 1st season Pennington. Central midfield always where you find the Nix scapegoat

I've just rewatched this match. I'm disappointed that none of the young lads really tried to stake a claim for an A-League starting spot. Sheridan is already a starter (there or thereabouts).

Last season was a close run thing against NPL opposition but we swung it in the 119th minute. The boys wanted it. LKH impressed me a lot. But all wanted it. It was the prelude to our best season ever.

kungfu panda

I've just rewatched this match. I'm disappointed that none of the young lads really tried to stake a claim for an A-League starting spot. Sheridan is already a starter (there or thereabouts).

Last season was a close run thing against NPL opposition but we swung it in the 119th minute. The boys wanted it. LKH impressed me a lot. But all wanted it. It was the prelude to our best season ever.

Last season we played midtable NPL QLD opposition and beat them in extra time. Top of NPL VIC is a bit different hey

lthomas20

kungfu panda

I've just rewatched this match. I'm disappointed that none of the young lads really tried to stake a claim for an A-League starting spot. Sheridan is already a starter (there or thereabouts).

Last season was a close run thing against NPL opposition but we swung it in the 119th minute. The boys wanted it. LKH impressed me a lot. But all wanted it. It was the prelude to our best season ever.

Last season we played midtable NPL QLD opposition and beat them in extra time. Top of NPL VIC is a bit different hey

That and we played out academy team with a couple of first teamers this year.

Our preseason just started too late, that was the problem. It arguably still hasn't started properly.

This year's pre season also heavily disrupted by the Olympics. LK-H, Hughes, Sheridan, Conchie & OVH only arrived back in Welly a few days before the South Melbourne game.

I actually think it was a promising performance. Completely dominated possession against the best team in the VIC NPL, who had played 20+ games together this season, so well organised. Nix just couldn't score. Not helped by Barba & Rojas on restricted mins

Also the team was sans Ball, 2 rumoured Japanese players, Rufer, Retre, Payne, Sutton and Oluwayemi. Ruiz-Díaz another rumoured signing. It's going to be a very different run on side when ALM kicks off in October.