AFC Announcement on future of Phoenix

The ACL qualification thing seems to be a smokescreen. What chance of us finishing first or second this season to be eligible for ACL 2011 anyway?

I have just realised I am absolutely gutted, we could be talking about the end of the club

Would that qualify though as being "eligible"? What was the reason they changed in the first place and could the NZK qualify for the ACL back then? IIRC the rule changed when the Phoenix came and Bertos was a foreigner when he played for Perth that one season.

Aside from that our only other hope is FIFA.

Worst case scenario is that the FFA give into the pressure of the AFC and change rules for us in the A league. If not then not competing in the ACL doesn't bother me.

This really should be our biggest worry. It means we have to change as if the AFC does not budge on this, the FFA will sacrifice us as we are only one club.

Theoretically if New Zealand became an "Asian" federation this would all be sorted wouldn't it? However obviously that isn't hugely likely and there would be easier options available. I just want to clear this up.

Worry is that they won't ban just us from the Asian Champions League but the Football Federation of Australia and all associated teams.

Agreed, eventually the FFA will want a solely aussie a-league and push us aside. Our solution would be to prove our presence by keeping form and winning games.

Yeah that is effectively what the qualification for ACL 2011 is presuming. Then we would get 3+1.

I very much doubt compromises will be made.

Man I hate the AFC.  Trying to sound reasonable with this ACL qualification but we aren't good enough to qualify anyway.

That talk about us failing to comply and going into the second division is rubbish.  Australia can't support a second division at the same time as keeping the current quality of the leg.  AFC are naive to think that's the case.  We need FIFA but would FIFA be sick of us by now?  Who knows?  One things for sure, those lads from New Caledonia probably won't get a sniff (not that it was overly likely).

They should just make OFC players not count as imports in the A-League (Australia promised to help OFC when it left for Asia) but in the ACL then it would be fair enough for OFC players to not count.

A word from Tony P would be more than welcome right now.

EDIT:  All our players need to start applying for Australian residency.  Can they do it being based in NZ?
loyalgunner2009-12-17 23:14:36

Good. If the phoenix can't obide by the rules, they should be kicked out. Make them face the same rules as everyone else. Same number of imports, make 'em work for it.

That is a kick in the guts.. What is the reasoning behind the AFC wanting to do this and since when did they hold so much power over the FFA? [My knowledge is limited of the Asia Confed]   Scottishbhoy2009-12-17 23:28:12

They just changed the rules?

Jog on.  They need us (at this stage), we need them so compromise.

W**Ker, mods note this isn't me. CboZ2009-12-17 23:32:16

I actually hate supporting football in NZ.

All this garbage we have to put up with that fans in other countries wouldn't even dream of.

I will be very surprised if FIFA did nothing. If they did Oceania football is screwed big time. They are surely not thast blind? Would they be aware of how important the Phoenix are to NZ football?

Do you think FFA would comply with the AFC???

Massive possibility mate! Massive!

They are the new kids. They arent the richest nor the biggest country either.
And with their WC bid they want all of asia behind them. It sup to FIFA now imo
(or the nix to win AFC then the CWC)

I think the problem for us is that we are getting into the footballing politics of the world, and that's just a bit beyond our sphere of influence.  We need someone with the ear of important people to make our case otherwise we will be shouting in a vacuum.

If Australia don't then they risk losing all of their ACL spots which they'd be stupid to do.

Come on Tony.  If you aren't answering here then I hope that means you are kicking some serious arse for the Phoenix cause.

Despite the pretty legalese it's amazing how thuggish AFC's threat to FFA sounds, like "Kick their ass to the curb or we'll kick yours". Reeks of payback.

I also hope the players react and kick up a stellar win this weekend.

Oh dear. We seem to be royally f**ked. I would support any nix playing in Welly regardless of Aussie content but I really hope it doesn't come to that.

2 years then we will be all supporting obscure english championship and league 1 clubs which have kiwi connections.  Maybe we should make aussie and SA super 14 sides abide by the same rules. this is so sh*t and wont get better fast

My reading of the Tea Leafs... FFA have to do what AFC tell them ... Frank Lowy is a big supporter of NIX...As I posted heaps of time on this point ( most of the time to be shouted at) but I will put the point again...

crap. bad news. Not what i wanted to read. Hard to get my head round it. Its crazy to think that they expect ausies to be imports one year, and then the next, have the kiwis as imports? wow this is terrible

Midfielder you're right, but Frank Lowy's number 1 motivation is the World Cup and he will not have a problem casting NZ aside if it means that he retains Asia's support.  Atleast the WC bidding process wil be over before this matter comes to a head in 2012.

If we had a first team squad all kiwi's and only four (or however many foreigners allowed) I wouldn't be too fussed although I could see us struggling horribly.  Would surely beat all Aussies bar four.  Then a youth team with half kiwi's half aussies so we're still helping Australian football.

not really great for attracting players here either

Loyalgunner the point is that from 2012 we would need to have a squad assembled on the same basis as other australian teams meaning (a) change the rules so that for all clubs NZers don't count as foreigners (but this would lead to ACL problems as they would count in the 3+1 for that competition) or (b) NZers considered foreigners so nix only allowed team of aussies + 5 kiwis/other foreigners.

Simple solution: John Key and Kevin Rudd create a workaround that,
 for the purposes of football only,
 NZers eligible to play for Wellington Phoenix and any subsequent NZ based A League clubs will be legitimately classed as dual citizens of both countries, entitled to the rights and privileges of citizens of both countries.
Imo,
Any political or commercial restraint-of-trade interference by the AFC on the lawful conducting of business between NZ and Australian citizens and entities is overstepping their jurisdiction.


The AFC has no right to interfere with trade and business arrangements already in existence between NZ and Australia, nor discriminate against our countries' citizens.
 Those in control of the AFC may get away with such unilateral abuses of power in their own countries and jurisdictions, but this muscle-flexing should have no place in the Anzac scheme of things.

The possible consequence of this treatment of NZ footballers by the AFC is consignment of football in NZ to the slag heap of sporting mediocrity, at a critical time of positive constructive development of the game in NZ.

It ignores the benefits possible for football in the Oceania region and NZ specifically and ultimately the World of Football in general , and indicates a poverty of spirit that is selfish in intent and myopic and lacking in vision.

RedGed2009-12-18 00:59:36

With the Knights they bitched about us not having enough Kiwi's, with the Phoenix we have too many Kiwi's.

What the hell should we do?  Can't really win.