Alternative Wellington Stadium

I was considering going to see Roger Waters when he played NHS, but the thing about the Floyd (or Roger solo) was that you went for the lightshow and the contact high, since the music was always identical to what was on the record. Tool would be a similar group.

/wow this is off topic

I agree that the price of building stadiums has increased massively. However, we are not debating whether or not Westpac Stadium would be cost effective if we built it now. If we hadn't built a stadium and the Council suggested a 200 million loan now then I would probably be dead against it. When it was built the council put up 40 million (in 1995) towards it which is 60 million when you compare in today's dollars. Just because stadiums might have tripled in price to build over that same time period does not mean the amount of money we paid as a loan also tripled. 

I don't see a stadium as under utilised if it is making money. If the stadium was smaller and rectangular would it make much more money? I'm not sure. I do know that in that situation Wellington would have lost a lot more money. I guess I just can't see how, if you are the council and you spend 40 million on a stadium, you get more than 40 million back in events to your city which you wouldn't have otherwise have gotten, while your stadium makes a tidy profit, that that stadium could be a bad investment. 

The Wellington 7's has injected $15 million into our local economy most years it has been held. Therefore 4 sevens tournaments were all it took to pay off that 40 million dollar loan adjusted for 2015 prices. There is no way the Sevens would have been held here if we hadn't built Westpac Stadium. There have been what 10 successful 7's tournaments? That's $150 million for our local economy. The Rugby World Cup apparently injected $94 million into our local economy. It would have been a lot less if we only had a 20,000 seat stadium.

So does New Zealand need so many big stadiums? Probably not. Which is why the New Zealand government should not invest any more money in New Zealand stadia. If Christchurch wants a big stadium then they should fund it themselves. In the case of Wellington we decided to build Westpac not because New Zealand needed another big stadium but because Wellington needed a big stadium if we wanted to be a city which had any big events at all.

I think it should be up to local communities to decide what sort of stadium they want. In Wellington we chose to have a big one and I think it has been successful. In Dunedin they also chose to have a big one but I feel that it won't be so successful for them. Either way they have to live with the consequences. If a local council can build a stadium, fund it themselves and believe that stadium will bring more to the local economy then I say all power to them.

The Hutt Rec was great. Whether you would get enough people there over a whole season though I'm not quite sure. I also still don't think it is fair for people from Lower Hutt to fork out $20 million to build a stadium for a team which doesn't yet have a license extension. In 2015 we absolutely would have built a different stadium to Westpac. I just don't think any solution suggested is better than the status quo.

yeah and you get Rod Stewart too

Sorry what? Live Tool are identical to their albums? Wrong thread but fudge no.

Who made money from all these events? The same people who fronted up with the cash?

I think we have already done that, poms everywhere

So now we get interesting, I believe the "Stadium Trust" was actually loaned the $40m by the Councils (GWRC $25m, WCC $15m) and had to pay the whole sum back, which is what the "Stadium fee" on our tickets was, that $2 was to go to pay the loan off. $57m in Grants, Donations etc, and $33m in a loan from ANZ. 

The Stadium must make money every year (Break even), and any'profit' made is reinvested back into the Stadium, now I believe they were 20 year loans, and should now be paid off (Don't quote me), so the loans are now cleared and the money previously used to pay for those is now going into investment in the Stadium itself. 

Now my own thought here is it'd be great if the Stadium Trust itself now put some of that money aside into a "replacement" stadium fund, with the thought that at some point in the future the stadium is no longer fit for purpose it can be replaced with the Stadium Trust being able to put forward the "deposit" (Just my idea, and for all I know they may already be doing this)

Interesting take on Economics / Accounting. Just because an event brings in $15m does not mean the $40m is effectively repaid. That figure, and I have always been very dubious about the amounts quoted by those who promote such things, is activity only, making bars hotels etc somewhat more profitable for that very short period. They are still paying the same rates, it is not linked to profit or turnover. 

I am glad we have a biggish stadium here, but my point is the uncordinated approach that has taken place nationally has seen too many of these stadiums that no one at all is really happy about, anywhere. No stadium in the country has its users and the public happy.

The stadium continues to return a small operating surplus every year. How long will this continue if the downward sprial in overall use continues? Patronage overall down about 30% since the early years despite the nix being a new tennant adding around 100,000 spectators pa. The profit used pretty much to repay borrowings. The stadium is showing its age and small titivations like the Mezzanine bar are really only putting lipstick on a pig so to speak and someday, in the not too distant future, it will need some serious coin spent on it otherwise patronage will continue to decline.

Hopefully when the time comes to spend that money decent innovative solutions will be put in place

Hearing the Auckland stadiums reshuffle is looking increasingly unlikely and not because the Warriors don't want to move but more due to the cost and logistics of converting the stadiums, particularly Mt Smart into a speedway.

I could have told them that...

Would we have got the Under 20 World Cup if we hadn't got the stadia we have? At least Fifa are impressed. Hopefully the NZ public will turn up in droves and fill em up.

No.  I'd have already told all the blow-in residents from Grey Lynn to fudge off and stop whining about Speedway.

Don't like it?  Move to Papakura.

Ha. We'll be lucky for crouds of more than a couple thousand for some of these games...

Ardmore. Already got noise consent.

The Warriors not wanting to move is only a minor

I live close enough that the Speedway noise is sometimes bothersome, but then on other nights we can hear the lions and monkeys in the zoo which is cool.

I was looking forward to seeing test cricket at Western Springs but I suppose Eden Park no 2 will also be nice. The moral of the story is: all stadiums are either hated, or lose money, so don't bother.

(Groff: I was referring to Tool's light show. I've only seen them once at the BDO and I wasn't familiar with the music then.)

Ha all good, a bit defensive there obviously :)

Build and they will come -

'A Year after opening Cambridge's Avantidrome has bucked the conventional wisdom that sports stadiums are loss-making white elephants.

The Waikato's $28 million sports facility runs at a profit and is credited with assisting a housing boom at nearby Cambridge as athletes, coaches and young families with an interest in cycling move into town. It's also drawn wide praise for getting the community onside.

The successful financial model rests upon the rental income derived from 3000 sq m of commercial space

 "Rental income is the most significant item of the balance sheet" says CEO Geoff Balme. "We've attracted tenants including Cycling NZ, High Performance NZ, Para Cycling NZ, the University of Waikato and Revolve Cafe. Canoe Racing NZ is expected to arrive later this year. I think encouraging use from local families, clubs and organisations has been key to our success. The track had 22,000 community rides in its first year. Elite athletes use it only about 10% of the time."

...

Cambridge Chamber of Commerce CEO Tara Whitford says the Avantidrome has been a key reason why Cambridge is now growing rapidly.  "The facility is often part of their (young families) decision to come here."

etc.etc.

- today's NZ Herald: The Business p.17

Just imagine if people had done that with Petone?

Come on people appreciate what you have, we're heading back to the Ring of Fire!

Enter stage left!

Yay.

PAX?

That seems like pretty decent early pax

+ 2000 stadium members.....

Found this and ok it's Wiki but....

The all-seater Darlington Arena was opened in 2003, at a cost of £18 million. The first game at the new stadium was a 2–0 loss to Kidderminster Harriers on 16 August 2003. The attendance of 11,600 still stands as a record for the ground.[68] Though the stadium can seat up to 25,000 people, the club is restricted to just 10,000 because of county and local planning regulations.[

Darlington Link If you click on the pic on this link it opens it up for a better view. Looks a great little stadia just what we would like or need. Perhaps a lower size attendence wise but look at the cost, even if it was 12 years ago.

Unfortunately  an alternative stadium will take just about as long as Transmission Gulley did before it comes to fruition

They built a 25000 seat stadium, the record croud is less than half that and due to local planning they're only allowed 10000....... weird. Or have I read that wrong?

I read it like that as well, either they made a mistake and wasted lots of money for nothing or the goal posts were moved on them (which is what would happen here).

Maybe the extra capacity was an investment for the future? That 'local planning' policy may not be in effect 20 years down the track ...

Once all the elderly NIMBYs have 'moved away from the area'

Or died.

edit: oh yes thats what you meant haha

PS. The club went bust 3 times after this stadium was built, in the last one was 'saved' by a fan group, but have been recreated at the bottom of the pyramid as Darlington 1883. They now ground share with Darlington Rugby Club.

Also the rule was made after design work etc by the Council because of lack of transport solutions, though they never looked at getting bigger crouds than 10,000 anyway :)