Broken Wings vs Phoenix - Match Thread.

672 replies · 5,023 views

over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Oska wrote:

By the way, it's just a theory but the limited amount of mossy-style saves Pasty at to make could have something to do with his organisation of the defence ...

Do you really believe that a few shouts from the 'keeper could make all the difference?

I dont

The saves Ive seen Moss make this season are mostly down to utter crap defending.

To be honest, Id be more confident having him standing between the sticks than Paston.

Paston did look elegant the way he moved around the box, but ( Ive only seem him play 3 times) I still have doubts about his shot stopping ability. I would have backed Moss to save that one yesterday, but thats pure speculation.

Moss has it for me still.

Are you f**king retarded?

Paston at 194cm is a full 7cm taller than Moss and he couldn't even get a hand to it. Frank Juric at 196cm is the only 'keeper in the league who could have got his hand to the ball and kept it out and even thats debatable.

Thanks for that lovely comment.

Position, timing and athleticism also come into it. If it was just height, Id be keeping for the Phoenix. Retard, hmm?

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Kwasnik was not nearly as impressive as some people are claiming: bring back Daniel. I would love to see him and Gao running at the Newcastle defence now that we've got some team confidence back. Until Brown none of our midfielders have shown any willingness to have a go. That has to change.

Our defence is a can of worms. It's difficult to make a case for dropping any of them, yet Durante must come back in surely. I was really pleased to see Muscat have such a strong game (apart from one retarded left foot pass). I know it's a tricky thing to determine just from watching the game on TV but his attitude seems much better than Mulligan's. I think he's got a lot of potential in that RB spot.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Browner_ wrote:

Critical_Lemon wrote:

Browner_ wrote:

Oska wrote:

By the way, it's just a theory but the limited amount of mossy-style saves Pasty at to make could have something to do with his organisation of the defence ...

Do you really believe that a few shouts from the 'keeper could make all the difference?

I dont

The saves Ive seen Moss make this season are mostly down to utter crap defending.

To be honest, Id be more confident having him standing between the sticks than Paston.

Moss has it for me still.

Thanks for that lovely comment.

Position, timing and athleticism also come into it. If it was just height, Id be keeping for the Phoenix. Retard, hmm?

Well if we're going to speculate on who would/n't have made a save we would never get an answer if you start taking all those variables into account. If you take the same starting position and an exact moment of realisation we can then get an answer, which in the case of yesterdays game is Moss would have been even further from it. We can't tell that Moss would have positioned himself better, on another day Paston could have been a foot further back and he would have tipped it over the bar. Retard was possibly a bit strong but I find it hard to believe Moss could have saved that. Now the second Nix goal, I think Moss could have saved that.
Critical_Lemon2008-09-30 00:13:39

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Hard News wrote:

Public Holiday in Aus.ï¿½ Game is at 18:00 here.Anyone who was at yesterdays match MUST be at the Kings wearing the exact same gear you were wearing.

I'm pretty sure it's 17:00 in NZ. Wouldn't want to miss the first half...

Daylight Savings starts Oct 5th in NSW, so the time difference is back to two hours before the Monday game.Fever_Pitch2008-09-30 00:25:11

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Critical_Lemon wrote:

Well if we're going to speculate on who would/n't have made a save we would never get an answer if you start taking all those variables into account.

I wasnt asking for an answer.

I said it was speculation on my part if you read my reply.

It was my opinion.

Nothing retarded about it.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

It's retarted speculation.

Nah, sorry mate, I tend to speed read the forums and didn't notice the speculation bit.
Doesn't help that it's getting late either.

Once again, sorry mate.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

tigers wrote:

for me it is relatively simple

those lads got us our first win of the season

if you reward a winner by dropping them, you are sending the wrong message

so, same starting line up

No, you pick the best team to get you three points. That may be the same 11, it may not be. One win does not deserve blanket loyalty, if the players are good enough then they will have earned their next start. If not, then they don't it's simple.

Normo's coming home

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Paston

Durante Sigmund Dodd Lochead

Mckain

Bertos Ferrante Kwasnik

Gao

Smeltz

Subbs:

Moss

Daniel

Christie ( utility man cover the fullbacks/wings/midfield.)

Costa/hearfield/Draper

I think this is a strong team. Paston deserves a starting place. As does dodd and siggy. To be honest i dnt really care who plays on the wings out of Daniel/hearfield/Bertos/Kwas/ they all do pritty much the same job. Tim brown has a lot of heart and chracter but isn't up to a league midfield standard. I think mckain shows more composure on the ball then most of our players and therefore should be tryd as a CDM.

The formation has

* A solid back 4

*A midfield that can hold on to the ball , make tackles , and has more pace than the othersfor tracking midfield bombers making late runs into the box.

*Wingers with creativity and ok delivery

*A class striker in Smeltz we just lack a partner for smeltz whos really good in the air and can hold up the ball.

Your guys thoughts?

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

to add a bit more from what was said about the keepers. Someone said

Do you really believe that a few shouts from the 'keeper could make all the difference?

I dont

How a keeper organises his defence is the diffence between a League 1 keeper in England and a premiership keeper.

Don't underestimate it. It may be the difference for the first time in their history the Phoenix looked solid at the back. Why change anything with the keeper and the CB's.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Why are we suggesting that we gamble with mckain at defensive midfield? Firstly, has anyone seen him play there? If not, then I can't believe people would even suggest that. If you have, then please tell us where and how he looked.

Utter tosh

Normo's coming home

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

fair enough james but can he:

pass-yes

tackle-yes

confident on the ball-yes

positioning- wel we don't knw

If dodd all of a sudden become a CDM then i cant see why mckain can't plus hes had experience there.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

First of all Dodd has played there in the Scottish Premier League. Not saying he's done a great job so far but he has previous form there, at a higher level than the A-League. I wouldn't play him in midfield either but thats beside the point.

Secondly, while you break down the requirements of a midfielder very succintly, it's so much more complicated than that.

Fine, he may be a decent passer, but passing out of defence is a lot more difficult than passing in midfield and passing incisively forwards. As Roy Keane says, it's easy to pass sideways. Plus we ca't afford to have a purely defensive player in there, we need someone who can give us something going forward as well.

And the one factor you miss is the most important one, positioning! Playing in midfield is compltely different to playing in defence. People think that because you are a defender you have the mindset to play there but it is a completely different role. CB is reactive, you see what's happening and react, see a player get the ball and react. Midfield you need to be ahead of the game, often you'll be marking space, closing space off. You need to be lot more mobile, it's just completely different.

Finally, why are we trying to convert a CB in midfield? There are very few players world wide who can play in both positions, what makes us think we have one (or two)!?

james dean2008-09-30 03:47:33

Normo's coming home

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

well i'd try McKain at DM because I rate him, and I'd rather have Dodd in the side but at CB. A few poor games doesn't mean he's crap, he was great in pre-season

How are we going to know what he's like at DM unless we try him in his preferred position? it worked having players in their preferred position against Sydney

i mean, he was a DM wasn't he? why are you telling us what a DM does if he was one

Cosimo2008-09-30 07:37:52

I like tautologies because I like them.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

                paston
durante   sigmund   dodd lochhead

           ferrante    brown
gao                                    kwasnik
             coveny   smeltz

bench:
moss
christie
daniel
hearfield
craiga2008-09-30 07:47:08

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Cosimo wrote:

Since when was it his preferred position?

Normo's coming home

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

12ubb3rduck3y wrote:

Paston

Durante Sigmund Dodd Lochead

Mckain

Bertos Ferrante Kwasnik

Gao

Smeltz

Subbs:

Moss

Daniel

Christie ( utility man cover the fullbacks/wings/midfield.)

Costa/hearfield/Draper

The formation has

* A solid back 4

*A midfield that can hold on to the ball , make tackles , and has more pace than the othersfor tracking midfield bombers making late runs into the box.

*Wingers with creativity and ok delivery

*A class striker in Smeltz we just lack a partner for smeltz whos really good in the air and can hold up the ball.

Your guys thoughts?

If he isn't, who in the squad really is in that position? Yes he hasn't exactly set the world alight since coming back from injury but yesterday was his first A-league start since coming back from injury, a total of 99 minutes including his sub appearances (and excluding injury time minutes).

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Browner_ wrote:

Critical_Lemon wrote:

Browner_ wrote:

[QUOTE=Oska]By the way, it's just a theory but the limited amount of mossy-style saves Pasty at to make could have something to do with his organisation of the defence ...

Do you really believe that a few shouts from the 'keeper could make all the difference?

I dont

The saves Ive seen Moss make this season are mostly down to utter crap defending.

To be honest, Id be more confident having him standing between the sticks than Paston.

Moss has it for me still.

Thanks for that lovely comment.

Position, timing and athleticism also come into it. If it was just height, Id be keeping for the Phoenix. Retard, hmm?

retard comments a bit harsh mate..

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

12ubb3rduck3y wrote:

Your guys thoughts?

brown was superb for newcastle in their finals run in version 2? hes been injured and finally getting better. he is not 110% yet im sure and still has room for improvement. cant be left out.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

It doesn't look like Moss is going to be playing...

Meanwhile, Phoenix coach Ricki Herbert doubts his No 1 goalkeeper Glen Moss will be available for the seventh round match, away to Newcastle, on Monday.

Moss was ruled out of last Sunday's match because of a side muscle injury, giving Mark Paston only his second opportunity in 27 A-League matches.

"Glen has a problem that will keep him out of action for maybe another week," Herbert said.

So another chance for Paston to prove his worth, a clean sheet or a strong performance and he could be in for the starting spot even with Moss back.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

From Dom Post

"Glen has a problem that will keep him out of action for maybe another week" - Ricki Herbert

That solves that argument.

Maybe the problem is Paston's form on Sunday? I would have always picked Moss first but being the ruthless type I am I would stick Paston back in if both were available. His presence under the high ball was heart warming. I felt confident when the crosses came in - can't say the same for Moss. Plus if there is a penalty Mossies efforts have been poos

Royal2008-09-30 10:39:10

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

lol at how times change. Last year we were so short of defenders we had to switch to a back three. Now we've at least six defenders and two keepers who all deserve to start and are arguing about who to leave out. Wish we had that problem with strikers.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I think there's been a bit of over reacting because of the win. If the best players are available, then pick them! On saying that, I think Kwasnik and Sigmund deserve another go. Not convinced about Brown - again an over reaction as he scored a goal. He wasn't bad but not brilliant as some might have you think. Give Plodder a crack and drag him for Johnson and shift Gao wide if things don't go well. Start Covs, even though his partnership with Smeltz isn't firing. I think it gives Smeltz more licence and confidence if there's more for the opposition defence to worry about

Paston

Sigmund Durante Dodd Lochead

Plodder Gao Brown Kwasnik

Smeltz Coveny

Bench

Spoonley

Johnson

Daniel

McKain

I just decided to swap Muscat for McKain on the bench. I don't think Muscat deserves to be out all together, but McKain is stronger. What was his "personal reason" last week, anybody know - or is it really personal?

Royal2008-09-30 11:05:11

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Royal wrote:

I think there's been a bit of over reacting because of the win. If the best players are available, then pick them! On saying that, I think Kwasnik and Sigmund deserve another go. Not convinced about Brown - again an over reaction as he scored a goal. He wasn't bad but not brilliant as some might have you think. Give Plodder a crack and drag him for Johnson and shift Gao wideï¿½if things don't go well. ï¿½Start Covs, even though his partnership with Smeltz isn't firing. I think it gives Smeltz more licence and confidence if there's more for the opposition defence to worry about

Paston

ï¿½

Sigmund Durante Dodd Lochead

ï¿½

Plodder Gao ï¿½ Brown Kwasnik

ï¿½

Smeltz Coveny

ï¿½

Bench

Spoonley

Johnson

Daniel

McKain

ï¿½

Well I would prefer Durante at RB as he has played there and it has always been a problem with us and Durante is good enough quality to fix the position for us. If Bertos is avalible have him in for Plodder.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I agree with what your saying Royal. I think though that sigmund has to be kept at center back. That is his natural position and he did really well there in the weekend. Apart from the goal Brown didnt do much and gave the ball away more than he kept it... he doesnt open out and switch play enough - and that is becuase he doesnt look over his shoulder when he recieves the ball. Our CM was bad in the weekend and we were very lucky to get the win.... a win is a win though and you have to take that. Karl Dodd is very bad on both sides of the ball. I always get nervous when he gets it because he tries to play out in the wrong areas.

Gao is V.G - we need to get him the ball as much as possible and get lochead/muscat to overlap so he can cut in and run at the opposition.

Paston

Muscat Sigmund Durrante Lochead

Mulligan Johnson

Kwasnik

Gao Daniel

Smeltz

Get someone under smeltz so he can combine - he doesnt do this well with coveney up front with him so give someone a chance to play under him and make runs past him. Ive also put in 2 defensive midfielders because against Sydney we looked very vulnerable when they were on the counter attack. We need to have two wingers to provide kwasy and Smeltz balls into the box.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I'm going off who is available to date. At this stage there's nothing on Bertos and Moss isn't likely. Kwasnik had his best game on the weekend, leave him there I reckonRoyal2008-09-30 11:23:30

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

looks like Paston will get his second start - Moss still out for another week.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

james dean wrote:

Cosimo wrote:

Since when was it his preferred position?

I thought when we signed him he was a DM? if not, fine, consider my humble pie digested. Still wanna see him play there though. Consider it woman's intuition

Cosimo2008-09-30 11:54:27

I like tautologies because I like them.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

feedback wrote:

Gao is V.G - we need to get him the ball as much as possible and get lochead/muscat to overlap so he can cut in and run at the opposition.

Paston

Muscat Sigmund Durrante Lochead

Mulligan Johnson

Kwasnik

Gao Daniel

Smeltz

IMO this is a shocker of a team!

why move kwasnik? played his best game out wide

why bring in daniel?

and why mulligan in the middle?!!!!

and johnson isnt good enough!!

i dont like to be negative but what were you thinking?

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

theyellowsose wrote:

feedback wrote:

Gao is V.G - we need to get him the ball as much as possible and get lochead/muscat to overlap so he can cut in and run at the opposition.

Paston

Muscat Sigmund Durrante Lochead

Mulligan Johnson

Kwasnik

Gao Daniel

Smeltz

IMO this is a shocker of a team!

why move kwasnik? played his best game out wide

why bring in daniel?

and why mulligan in the middle?!!!!

and johnson isnt good enough!!

i dont like to be negative but what were you thinking?

Agreed, I dont see why you would change a team, that just beat the top team in the competition so much... wtf... why change what isn't broken?

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Why change what isn't broken? Because we are playing a different team and a different approach is required and there is always the potential to win by more.

And Johnson is quality as he showed against Sydney.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

can't agree with you there loyal, Johnson was ok, slow at best, in that team above I'd have Brown in before Johnson, although no way would I trust Mulligan in the midfield, he doesn't deserve to be on the pitch at all - Johnson might scrape in there.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

--------------------------------------------Paston-----------------------------------------------------------------

Sigmund-----------------------Durnate-----------------------Dodd----------------------------Lochhead

Gao--------------------------Brown-------------------Mckain------------------------Bertos

-------------------------------Smeltz-------------------Kwasnik---------------------------------------------

BENCH= Moss, Mulligan, Daniel/Ferrante, Coeveny.

-Paston has to start, he's winnin the goalie race now and he'll be out to prove hes the best, putting moss back in undermines him,

-i like sigmunds attitude, but durante has to be in the team, manny muscats to inconsistent for mine,

-Gao and daniel can never play together, straight swap,

-as well as johnson played last week, mckain should start in DM with brown more attackin.

-442 has to be played, it showed last week. kwasnik can drift left,

Mulligan is versatile, and would like to see him played at right midfield as well,

finally, coveny seems to play 50% better at home, and he's not a 90 miunute man, and 1 goal from 20 games may look bad but he's more of a target man

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

An extremely talented defender and midfielder, Jon joins the Phoenix from FCU Politehnica Timisoara in the Romanian Liga 1 competition, where he also played for National Bucharest. He has represented Australia 12 times at senior level and made three appearances at the 2005 Confederations Cup in Germany. Jon also represented Australia at the 2004 Olympics in Athens.

Straight off the nix site.

maybe i am being a bit to hard on tim brown but hes really not that good and would require someone like gao or bertos who want to have the ball to come to him and get in acres of space for him to have a blinder of a game.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Royal wrote:

Paston

Sigmund Durante Dodd Lochead

Plodder Gao Brown Kwasnik

Smeltz Coveny

Bench

Spoonley

Johnson

Daniel

McKain

I think royal has the best team of anyone so far

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Yep agreed actually. I would put Gao on the right and McKain in the middle though. Plodder on the bench. (though I was impressed with him when he came on.) Costa or Drapes in for Coveny too. Coveny just doesn't seem to play that great away from home.
valeo2008-09-30 13:43:39

a.haak

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

james dean wrote:

Utter tosh

Dont see the problem with giving him a crack in midfield its not as if he hasnt played there.When it was first announced he was coming we were told he was a defender/midfielder.As for changes for this week im in the camp of you play your best players no matter what.
We can speculate as much as we like I mean who is to say that if our best guys had been available last week we wouldnt have won by more.

GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

theprof wrote:

looks like Paston will get his second start - Moss still out for another week.

Well, that will at least give Paston the chance to "organise his defence" and keep a clean sheet. At this point in time, I still expect Moss to come back eventually, but I look forward to being proved wrong.

So the team for next week looks like this to me:

Paston

Muscat Sigmund Durante Lochhead

Brown Johnson

Gao Ferrante Kwasnik

Smeltz

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Critical_Lemon wrote:

It's retarted speculation.

Nah, sorry mate, I tend to speed read the forums and didn't notice the speculation bit.
Doesn't help that it's getting late either.

Once again, sorry mate.

Ill forgive you, even refs have better eyesight than you

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

[/QUOTE]Dont see the problem with giving him a crack in midfield its not as if he hasnt played there.When it was first announced he was coming we were told he was a defender/midfielder.As for changes for this week im in the camp of you play your best players no matter what.
We can speculate as much as we like I mean who is to say that if our best guys had been available last week we wouldnt have won by more.
[/QUOTE]

How exactly do you define best players?

The ones who earn the most? Reputation? Have the most experience? Historical success? Recent success? Current form?

And you pick them no matter how well they, or other members of the squad are playing?

I don't think players should ever be picked on reputation... the challenge for Ricki is to identify who will best fit the needs of the team to achieve what we want to in Newcastle... one of the key things he needs to take into account (and for the first time in many weeks) is the fact that the morale and confidence is growing based on improved performances by some of the lesser lights (or performers) of the squad thus far like Paston, Dodd, Plodder, Muscat, Gao, Brown etc... and how he balances that with the return of some key players - ie: Durante, McKain and Bertos/Moss when they return from injury...

Suffice to say I'm buggered if I know what Ricki 'should' do... but will get behind the boys regardless!

E + R + O

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Come on surge there is no need to be so pedantic,

i think you know what i mean.So you would be happy for last weeks team to start even if Durante and a couple of yes im going to say it our 1st choice players were fully fit.Despite the fact that had he or a couple of others been available last weeks team would have looked very different.

As an aside i spent some time last nite going through some old threads,and and its interesting that in the space of one game suddenly some of these guys are up to a standard that many had said they wernt.

We are a fickle and changeable lot.

GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS

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