Wellington Phoenix Men

Daniel the Kiwi

91 replies · 1,225 views
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
awesome news that! can't wait to see him in the AW's, some Brazilian flair in all white!!!!

Queenslander 3x a year.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Oska wrote:

I think it might of been like a�national schoolboys level or something, I have it at home somewhere.



This?

Wikipedia is not to be trusted.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Ok, i'm glad i started a nicely discussed topic.

So, let's recap..and i'll add a few facts.

1) Daniel now holds citizenship, not only PR as someone hinted. He is a Kiwi.

2) Daniel never played for the Selecao, he did have some experience with a Brazilian national side, but it was not with the proper team, hence it doesn't count.

3) Since the old wording applies to him, the whole 5-year thing doesn't apply.

4) Tony P, Ricky and Terry definitely investigated this before going through with it. They surely don't want to look like cocks in the eye of the media. If that has been done, it must bring advantages.

5) I'm quite sure that we now have room for another import. Some say we hardly need it. I disagree.

6) The Tv - for what it's worth - said that he could play vs Spain as early as next year. Again, surely they must've done their research before saying so.

7) Finally, the AW's don't need Daniel? I think you guys need to watch a bit more football. Didn't you lose to f**king Vanuatu or something a couple of years ago???!!! The only 2 players with a bit of flair in that team are Smeltzy and Bertos. Daniel surely can't hurt!

VUW AFC - Victoria University Football for life

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
newzealandpower wrote:
Ok, i'm glad i started a nicely discussed topic.

So, let's recap..and i'll add a few facts.

1) Daniel now holds citizenship, not only PR as someone hinted. He is a Kiwi.

2) Daniel never played for the Selecao, he did have some experience with a Brazilian national side, but it was not with the proper team, hence it doesn't count.

3) Since the old wording applies to him, the whole 5-year thing doesn't apply.

4) Tony P, Ricky and Terry definitely investigated this before going through with it. They surely don't want to look like cocks in the eye of the media. If that has been done, it must bring advantages.

5) I'm quite sure that we now have room for another import. Some say we hardly need it. I disagree.

6) The Tv - for what it's worth - said that he could play vs Spain as early as next year. Again, surely they must've done their research before saying so.

7) Finally, the AW's don't need Daniel? I think you guys need to watch a bit more football. Didn't you lose to f**king Vanuatu or something a couple of years ago???!!! The only 2 players with a bit of flair in that team are Smeltzy and Bertos. Daniel surely can't hurt!
 
Agreed, We need another two strikers which have to come from over seas due to the lack of quality over here. So at the moment Fred is our only import?

ive got a song that wont take long, Adelaide are rubbish.. the second verse is same as the first.. ADELAIDE ARE RUBBISH

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Frees up an import slot. We won't need it this season, but for next season and beyond, we need a couple of good strikers.

If he can paly for the AWs, this would be very good news. He could walk into the AWs without even playing consistent first-team football for his club.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Go Daniel!!!!! glad to have you as a kiwi anyday!
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
newzealandpower wrote:
The only 2 players with a bit of flair in that team are Smeltzy and Bertos. Daniel surely can't hurt!


Chris James, ftw.


+1

Only seen a few games but reckon he could be the future of NZ football if he progresses right.

a.haak

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
wellyphoenixfan wrote:
loyalgunner wrote:
Right, I'm going to ignore what wellyphoenixfan has said because it isn't positive.  This is good news.  In all honesty, if a country grants citizenship then it should really be out of FIFA's jurisdiction.  Having said that, in Qatar Brazillians were flocking for citizenship to play international football so I guess something needed to be done.But the guy said he could even play Spain next year, so that's got to mean somethings been sorted out surely?
He might think he is but NZF isn't going to risk a fine from FIFA. Plus I doubt he would even make the starting line-up he thinks all he needs is residency to get in the squad yet he can't even make the Nix's starting 11. The starting four for the AW would be Elliott, Bertos Brown and (Most likely) James.
 
Look at how many played for the AW's in Fiji that can't make club sides!!. It was laughable. Not playing club or regular football didn't seem to make a difference.
 
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
loyalgunner wrote:
Good, the only possible negative I can think of would be for Daniel if he doesn't get picked.  He'd be mildly frustrated to say the least.  Maybe Ricki would feel he had an obligation to pick him for a few games at least.
 
The AW's are where all the Nix reserves get a run
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
NIIIICE!
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
AllWhitebelievr wrote:
wellyphoenixfan wrote:
People are getting confused the 5 years rule is set by FIFA not the NZ government although it could be the same but FIFA set the 5 year rule so countries don't fast track residency from say 5 years to 2 years so that the player can play for the country earlier.[/QUOTE]

Tony P has got it a bit wrong.

At 58th FIFA Congress in Sydney, Australia, held an 30 May 2008, the changing of Eligibility to play for representative teams in Article . 17 (d) of the Regulations Governing the Application of the FIFA Statutes was approved.

The previous wording was: " for at least two years in the territory . . . "

The new wording is now "he has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association."

The new wording came in force with immediate effect on 18th June 2008 via FIFA Circular no . 1147 TO THE MEMBERS OF FIFA.

Since Daniels has started his football with the Wellington Phoenix way before 18th June 2008. The old wording applies to him, not the new wording.

This is the article;

[quote=FIFA]

VII . Eligibility to play for representative teams

Article 17
Acquisition of a new nationality

Any player who refers to art . 15 par . 1 to assume a new nationality and who has not played international football in accordance with art . 15 par . 2 shall be eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfils one of the following conditions :

(a) He was born an the territory of the relevant Association ;
(b) His biological mother or biological father was born an the territory of the relevant Association ;
(c) His grandmother or grandfather was born an the territory of the relevant Association ;
(d) He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 an the territory of the relevant Association.


What gives you the idea that because Daniel got here before the new ruling that it doesn't apply to him?
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Can we hear from someone who knows something (Tony?)

I'm going with the news cause it definatly said he is eligible to play vs Spain.

And if he is now a Kiwi, whether he can or cannot play for the AWs by FIFA laws, he will no longer count as an import.Michael2008-12-02 14:08:32
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
AllWhitebelievr wrote:
wellyphoenixfan wrote:
People are getting confused the 5 years rule is set by FIFA not the NZ government although it could be the same but FIFA set the 5 year rule so countries don't fast track residency from say 5 years to 2 years so that the player can play for the country earlier.[/QUOTE]

Tony P has got it a bit wrong.

At 58th FIFA Congress in Sydney, Australia, held an 30 May 2008, the changing of Eligibility to play for representative teams in Article . 17 (d) of the Regulations Governing the Application of the FIFA Statutes was approved.

The previous wording was: " for at least two years in the territory . . . "

The new wording is now "he has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association."

The new wording came in force with immediate effect on 18th June 2008 via FIFA Circular no . 1147 TO THE MEMBERS OF FIFA.

Since Daniels has started his football with the Wellington Phoenix way before 18th June 2008. The old wording applies to him, not the new wording.

This is the article;

[quote=FIFA]

VII . Eligibility to play for representative teams

Article 17
Acquisition of a new nationality

Any player who refers to art . 15 par . 1 to assume a new nationality and who has not played international football in accordance with art . 15 par . 2 shall be eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfils one of the following conditions :

(a) He was born an the territory of the relevant Association ;
(b) His biological mother or biological father was born an the territory of the relevant Association ;
(c) His grandmother or grandfather was born an the territory of the relevant Association ;
(d) He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 an the territory of the relevant Association.


What gives you the idea that because Daniel got here before the new ruling that it doesn't apply to him?
Presumably when a player moves permanently or signs registration with a club that is when it starts. If he did these things before the chage then I cant see how they will backdate it (from a legal perspective), the rule should/will apply that was the rule when he signed/moved/registered

www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
AllWhitebelievr wrote:
wellyphoenixfan wrote:
People are getting confused the 5 years rule is set by FIFA not the NZ government although it could be the same but FIFA set the 5 year rule so countries don't fast track residency from say 5 years to 2 years so that the player can play for the country earlier.[/QUOTE]

Tony P has got it a bit wrong.

At 58th FIFA Congress in Sydney, Australia, held an 30 May 2008, the changing of Eligibility to play for representative teams in Article . 17 (d) of the Regulations Governing the Application of the FIFA Statutes was approved.

The previous wording was: " for at least two years in the territory . . . "

The new wording is now "he has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association."

The new wording came in force with immediate effect on 18th June 2008 via FIFA Circular no . 1147 TO THE MEMBERS OF FIFA.

Since Daniels has started his football with the Wellington Phoenix way before 18th June 2008. The old wording applies to him, not the new wording.

This is the article;

[quote=FIFA]

VII . Eligibility to play for representative teams

Article 17
Acquisition of a new nationality

Any player who refers to art . 15 par . 1 to assume a new nationality and who has not played international football in accordance with art . 15 par . 2 shall be eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfils one of the following conditions :

(a) He was born an the territory of the relevant Association ;
(b) His biological mother or biological father was born an the territory of the relevant Association ;
(c) His grandmother or grandfather was born an the territory of the relevant Association ;
(d) He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 an the territory of the relevant Association.


What gives you the idea that because Daniel got here before the new ruling that it doesn't apply to him?


Because that is how it normally works for any type of rule change?

a.haak

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It all depends on how FIFA define residence. Daniel wasn't granted PR until July this year, before that he was presumably on a work visa.
Would FIFA consider someone who was on a work visa at the time of the change in the ruling as permanent residence in the territory of the relevant football association?

I don't know, but I know FIFA are bureaucracy kings...
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
It all depends on how FIFA define residence. Daniel wasn't granted PR until July this year, before that he was presumably on a work visa.
Would FIFA consider someone who was on a work visa at the time of the change in the ruling as permanent residence in the territory of the relevant football association?

I don't know, but I know FIFA are bureaucracy kings...
Yeah that will be the relevant distinction, at what stage did he become recognised as living in NZ

www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Michael wrote:
Can we hear from someone who knows something (Tony?)

I'm going with the news cause it definatly said he is eligible to play vs Spain.

And if he is now a Kiwi, whether he can or cannot play for the AWs by FIFA laws, he will no longer count as an import.


Daniel > Carles Puyol/Sergio Ramos
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
All I can think is that the club, with the backing of NZF have taken a case to the Minister for Internal Affairs, because the only way to get citizenship 5 months after being granted PR would be as an exceptional circumstance - as described below

<!-- #### END LEFT MENU #### --> <!-- #### START CONTENT AREA #### --> Grants of New Zealand Citizenship in Other Situations


If are unable to fulfil all of the general requirements for a grant of New Zealand citizenship, you may still qualify if you can prove that one of the following situations applies to you. You are a: Each of these situations is described in more detail below.

Person in exceptional circumstances
The Minister of Internal Affairs is able to grant citizenship to a person who has exceptional circumstances, if the Minister is satisfied it would be in the public interest to do so.

The exceptional circumstances requirement is very difficult to meet. The public interest requirement means that the granting of citizenship must provide some "advantage" or "benefit" to New Zealand.

An assessment is made on a case-by-case basis. Generally, we do not accept holiday travel as an exceptional circumstance.

If you feel your circumstances are exceptional and that your getting citizenship would benefit New Zealand please contact us to discuss your case.

The Minister may also reduce the ordinary residence requirement or waive the requirement that an applicant be able to speak English in certain situations, including where an applicant would suffer undue hardship in meeting the requirement. The Minister considers all of these cases on their own merit. The Citizenship Office recommends that people should not rely on these provisions and should only make an application where they feel they can meet all the requirements of the Act.

When Hibs, went up, to win the Scottish Cup - I wisnae there - furfuxake!

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
This is what Radio Sport say
Phoenix Brazilian footballer gets citizenship2/12/2008 2:32 p.m.

The Wellington Phoenix' Brazilian player Daniel has become a New Zealand citizen; needs FIFA clearance to play for All Whites

Brazilian born Phoenix football striker Daniel is now officially a New Zealander.

He has gained New Zealand citizenship in Wellington.

Daniel harbours All Whites aspirations but will have to wait for FIFA clearance before being eligible. It is unclear how long any stand down period will be for.

Daniel shifted to Wellington for the Phoenix' inaugural A-League season last year.

Anyone think they just read this thread and didn't know like we did so gave up on finding out anymore

www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I wonder if Capital Football would make a case to the minister to fast track a budding Cap 1/2/3 ref's citizenship! 

When Hibs, went up, to win the Scottish Cup - I wisnae there - furfuxake!

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ginger_eejit wrote:
All I can think is that the club, with the backing of NZF have taken a case to the Minister for Internal Affairs, because the only way to get citizenship 5 months after being granted PR would be as an exceptional circumstance - as described below


Ahem...


How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Ahhh touche!

www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
So when do you think we'll hear the decision from FIFA?
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Great news to see him finally gain citizenship last night on the news. Can't wait to see him in an All Whites shirt.

Three for me, and two for them.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
newzealandpower wrote:
7) Finally, the AW's don't need Daniel? I think you guys need to watch a bit more football. Didn't you lose to f**king Vanuatu or something a couple of years ago???!!! The only 2 players with a bit of flair in that team are Smeltzy and Bertos. Daniel surely can't hurt!
I hope you don't think we would of beat them if we had Daniel. We didn't even know who Daniel was back then so it isn't relevant if you mean the loss to Fiji this year it was mainly a 2nd/3rd 11 playing them. These are the players that were missing:
Tim Brown (suspended)
Mark Paston
Tony Lochhead
Shane Smeltz
Ryan Nelsen
Chris Killen
Simon Elliott
Duncan Oughton
Jarrod Smith
Chris James
Andrew Boyens

Only Bertos played he is the only one that would normally be in the top All Whites team.wellyphoenixfan2008-12-02 15:38:46
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It was close to a full strength team but there were MAJOR problems off the pitch in that squad.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
It was close to a full strength team but there were MAJOR problems off the pitch in that squad.
Sorry I was think of the loss this year to Fiji but most of the squad that loss Vanuatu are not even in the team anymore and that loss happened before most of us even knew about Daniel.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Daniel's citizenship isn't just about playing for AWs, he actually likes it over here too!
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Pleased for him that he has got citizenship and is so enthuastic about living here and playing for the AW.
 
If the two year period that AWB talks about applies then that is consistent with the report about him being able to play Spain next year.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
wellyphoenixfan wrote:
newzealandpower wrote:
7) Finally, the AW's don't need Daniel? I think you guys need to watch a bit more football. Didn't you lose to f**king Vanuatu or something a couple of years ago???!!! The only 2 players with a bit of flair in that team are Smeltzy and Bertos. Daniel surely can't hurt!
I hope you don't think we would of beat them if we had Daniel. We didn't even know who Daniel was back then so it isn't relevant if you mean the loss to Fiji this year it was mainly a 2nd/3rd 11 playing them. These are the players that were missing:
Tim Brown (suspended)
Mark Paston
Tony Lochhead
Shane Smeltz
Ryan Nelsen
Chris Killen
Simon Elliott
Duncan Oughton
Jarrod Smith
Chris James
Andrew Boyens

Only Bertos played he is the only one that would normally be in the top All Whites team.


My point was that you/us kiwis should be very careful before dismissing a player such as Daniel for the AW squad. True, he wasn't here when we lost to Vanuatu, but he's a guy who gives 100% during every game, he can beat his man and has awesome crossing and passing skills.
That puts it about a large number of AW's. Don't get why everyone keeps mentioning Elliot. They play in different roles. It's like saying: "Why does McKain play ad DM, when Fred could do it"! It just doesn't make sense.

VUW AFC - Victoria University Football for life

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'm just looking forward to the "KIWI-I ... KIWI-I ... KIWI-I ..." chant when he comes on the field!

I know, I know, its serious!

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
if he ever does , normally by the time the w**ker aleague refs have gotten him on the pitch and he's had enough time to get over to the fever side the game's f**king finished
 
(slight exaggeration, I know)
You know we belong together...

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
SC03 wrote:
Pleased for him that he has got citizenship and is so enthuastic about living here and playing for the AW.
�

If the two year period that AWB talks about applies then that is consistent with the report about him being able to play Spain next year.


I'm guessing that no-one's really sure about this yet, NZF will probably approach FIFA soon to see whether Daniel's now eligible for AW selection.

el grapadura2008-12-02 21:02:05
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
It all depends on how FIFA define residence. Daniel wasn't granted PR until July this year, before that he was presumably on a work visa.
Would FIFA consider someone who was on a work visa at the time of the change in the ruling as permanent residence in the territory of the relevant football association?



Thinking about this further...if a foreign player (say, a Croat) spends five years playing in the Premiership, does that qualify him to play for England?
No.
So presumably, the 2/5 year rule kicks into action once the player is eligible to represent the country he's been living in (i.e. gets the citizenship of that country). If this is how FIFA view the situation, and it seems likely to me that they do, then Daniel could well end up waiting 5 years to play for the AWs.

Guess we'll have to wait and see though.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Turfmoore wrote:
I'm just looking forward to the "KIWI-I ... KIWI-I ... KIWI-I ..." chant when he comes on the field!


To the tune of, "Glory Glory Man Utd?" Sorry if that was obvious...
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
No, to the tune of "All Blacks, All Blacks".
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

(Seriously) I thought it was the same as the now much despised seagull tune

You know we belong together...

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Btw, loving your new sig Oska.

If you ever get the chance to see a game at La Bombonera, don't miss it, the best football atmosphere I've ever experienced.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It's my one and only aim in life
You know we belong together...

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