New coach by the end of April
Advertised next week
Get your CV's together !!!
Ernie Merrick - former Phoenix manager
Of course signing a player with a proven A League record, and who looked in better shape than I've ever seen him in a recent pic posted on here, was a ridculous idea. Obviously no other potential coach would want a quality player like that anywhere near our squad.
Well the guy appointing the coach agrees with me.
Quoting David Dome in the Herald: "Dome said they wanted to appoint a new coach shortly so the successful applicant could have a say in who would be on the roster for next year, as opposed to if they came on board in June or July when most of the squad would be inked."
He's going to be close to our highest paid player. Whether he is in good nick or not, or whether he is good enough or not, isn't really the point. I just find it odd that either Dome and other non-football staff are signing players, or they let Ricki commit to a player a couple of weeks before he was sacked. The manager needs to be the one signing players
He resigned ffs. Get over it.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/soccer-football/news/article.cfm?c_id=86&objectid=10870086
Anyone else notice this article is future dated? Dani Sanchez's name is spelt wrong.
other things i noticed
"Downey and Pantelis won't be back in Wellington next season, while Solomon Islands' international Totori will have an option activated on his deal that will see him pull on a Phoenix jersey again next summer.
It's understood that the seldom-used Smith has been told by the club they will negotiate with him next month, although he recently spent a week in China looking at the possibility of joining a team in Beijing.
Lochhead, who is club's all-time appearance leader with 129 games, said he wanted to return to the Phoenix but was yet to receive an offer."
ex Dome "so the successful applicant could have a say in who would be on the roster for next year, as opposed to if they came on board in June or July when most of the squad would be inked."
Well any decent aspirants will have just closed the door, and run away at a very fast rate of knots. This is scary shite. Don't think anyone knows what they're doing off the field, which was the rumour all season - no real football knowledge outside RH. Now Dome says it's a sub-committee of 6 (Morgan said 4) plus more technical experts (Morgan said 2 - one from Oz - one from UK). So seems like we're heading for a Papal Conclave setup. What does everyone get a vote and we wait 2 months for the white smoke.
Who the f..k would be doing the inking. Dome knows nothing about football at this level. So would Herbert have influence ?. Greenacre ? What a mistake not getting an accountable footballing CEO - like Tony P, and just run the Phoenix like a foiotball club. He'd have the deal done right now, because he'd have the real oil, on who's the best fit.
For the first time ever, I have serious doubts about this club. Running the Phoenix like the public service with rule by committee will be disastrous. Just end up with the inmates running the asylum, and it seems the inmates are making good progress. That's the only downside of Wellington - this public service mentality - no individual takes responsibility - they all keep throwing the ball around.
Of course signing a player with a proven A League record, and who looked in better shape than I've ever seen him in a recent pic posted on here, was a ridculous idea. Obviously no other potential coach would want a quality player like that anywhere near our squad.
Well the guy appointing the coach agrees with me.
Quoting David Dome in the Herald: "Dome said they wanted to appoint a new coach shortly so the successful applicant could have a say in who would be on the roster for next year, as opposed to if they came on board in June or July when most of the squad would be inked."
He's going to be close to our highest paid player. Whether he is in good nick or not, or whether he is good enough or not, isn't really the point. I just find it odd that either Dome and other non-football staff are signing players, or they let Ricki commit to a player a couple of weeks before he was sacked. The manager needs to be the one signing players
Lets say you are the chairman of........ Liverpool. Your team has underperformed and you decide that the manager Brendan Rodgers (spelling) is not the one for you and he is going to get the Spanish Archer soon. Ronaldo/Messi/Rooney/some other quality player wants to sign for your team. Do you sign him knowing you will have a new manager next year and he will want to sign his own players? Of course ytou do because quality players will do quality things regardless.
I think you are looking at it from the point of view that Ricki was fired and to a degree, I do kinda go 'huh? You signed a guy then 2 weeks later you are gone. What?' I get that, I actually do but he resigned. I know its all speculation but in a country this size, with a board that size, if he was getting fired, it would be out there by now. In terms of the A League, Carlos is a proven quality performer, in a position the Phoenix have a need, and looking at recent pics, actually in shape.
When you take the above into account, the signing is a no brainer, coach signed or not. Also if another player pops up that is worth signing, coach or not, do we sign him? You bet your sweet ass we do.
Just to add to this, I think on field talent can to a degree, coach themselves. I can't imagine Kirk Penney, Cedric Jackson, Hamish Bond, Dan Carter, Benji Marshall need much coaching because they know how to get things done so in some respects, talent trumps all and then you fit them in because they know what needs to be done at the right time (this is not calling Carlos one of those players but his pedigree suggest he knows how to get it done)
I think if a player of talent pops up, coach in place or not, you grab him. The alternative is the coach signs a player of lesser talent. Its an easy win.
Just to add to this, I think on field talent can to a degree, coach themselves. I can't imagine Kirk Penney, Cedric Jackson, Hamish Bond, Dan Carter, Benji Marshall need much coaching because they know how to get things done so in some respects, talent trumps all and then you fit them in because they know what needs to be done at the right time (this is not calling Carlos one of those players but his pedigree suggest he knows how to get it done)
I think if a player of talent pops up, coach in place or not, you grab him. The alternative is the coach signs a player of lesser talent. Its an easy win.
Even top class players have coaches, and tennis is a good example. Players of all sports need people that can see different aspects of the game than them.
Ramon howdoyousayhisspainishlastname
Catalan. They're touchy about that. It's like calling McAlastair an "English" name.
Of course signing a player with a proven A League record, and who looked in better shape than I've ever seen him in a recent pic posted on here, was a ridculous idea. Obviously no other potential coach would want a quality player like that anywhere near our squad.
Well the guy appointing the coach agrees with me.
How? By signing Hernandez? The very thing you are bitching about?
This is so simple. Any signing is a bit of a risk but there are a handful of players around the league who any club would snap up regardless. Hernandez is one.
The rest of the squad the club rightly want the new coach to have a major say in. However, the exact timing of his appointment may mean the club has to move on a few people first.
You wanted to "Sack Ricki" remember? Whether he jumped or he was pushed - these are the consequences. Did you not think there would be any downside at all of bringing in a new coach?
Of course signing a player with a proven A League record, and who looked in better shape than I've ever seen him in a recent pic posted on here, was a ridculous idea. Obviously no other potential coach would want a quality player like that anywhere near our squad.
Well the guy appointing the coach agrees with me.
Quoting David Dome in the Herald: "Dome said they wanted to appoint a new coach shortly so the successful applicant could have a say in who would be on the roster for next year, as opposed to if they came on board in June or July when most of the squad would be inked."
He's going to be close to our highest paid player. Whether he is in good nick or not, or whether he is good enough or not, isn't really the point. I just find it odd that either Dome and other non-football staff are signing players, or they let Ricki commit to a player a couple of weeks before he was sacked. The manager needs to be the one signing players
Lets say you are the chairman of........ Liverpool. Your team has underperformed and you decide that the manager Brendan Rodgers (spelling) is not the one for you and he is going to get the Spanish Archer soon. Ronaldo/Messi/Rooney/some other quality player wants to sign for your team. Do you sign him knowing you will have a new manager next year and he will want to sign his own players? Of course ytou do because quality players will do quality things regardless.
I think you are looking at it from the point of view that Ricki was fired and to a degree, I do kinda go 'huh? You signed a guy then 2 weeks later you are gone. What?' I get that, I actually do but he resigned. I know its all speculation but in a country this size, with a board that size, if he was getting fired, it would be out there by now. In terms of the A League, Carlos is a proven quality performer, in a position the Phoenix have a need, and looking at recent pics, actually in shape.
When you take the above into account, the signing is a no brainer, coach signed or not. Also if another player pops up that is worth signing, coach or not, do we sign him? You bet your sweet ass we do.
On your Liverpool example different story when it's a salary capped league. Hernandez is a good player, but he's not a perfect fit in every system. That signing will define how we play to a certain extent which limits a coach - all I'm saying is I don't think it's ideal.
On the sacked/resigned point I've heard plenty of rumours about what went on and I'm in the UK. I'm sure others have too
This forum has gone quite weird - everyone is incredibly defensive when it comes to criticism of the club - and we have to take every single thing the club announces as gospel
Just to add to this, I think on field talent can to a degree, coach themselves. I can't imagine Kirk Penney, Cedric Jackson, Hamish Bond, Dan Carter, Benji Marshall need much coaching because they know how to get things done so in some respects, talent trumps all and then you fit them in because they know what needs to be done at the right time (this is not calling Carlos one of those players but his pedigree suggest he knows how to get it done)
I think if a player of talent pops up, coach in place or not, you grab him. The alternative is the coach signs a player of lesser talent. Its an easy win.
I'm not talking about individual coaching, no-one needs to teach him to kick a ball. It's coaching the team, tactics, shape - how the system works
I know that but quality players know how to execute... coaching aside
Imagine the scenario for new coach coming to the Nix and the Board said " just before you arrived we had an opportunity to sign this guy called Hernandez. A player who was MVP for the A-League and is generally agreed to be one of the best players ever to grace the comp. But we didn't because we thought you might like to chose your own players" The coach would probably go.."WTF go and get him" Then the Board would say...sorry he's already been snapped up
New coaches always take over established rosters. They then add or subtract according to how they see it. But any coach coming in would prefer to arrive at a club that has many quality players, as it makes their job a whole lot easier. Hernandez is a known quality..its a no brainer for the club to snap him up no matter what the coaching situation is.
This forum has gone quite weird - everyone is incredibly defensive when it comes to criticism of the club - and we have to take every single thing the club announces as gospel
Arf!
First of all, the forum hasn't gone quite weird, it's always been quite weird.
Second, not everybody on here feels they have to play the same devil's advocate role that you do, where every single thing the club says or does gets questioned, or has the most negative spin possible put on it. You're actually very good at that so I feel like I don't need to bother.
I listened to David Dome on the podcast and it sounded to me like the club is doing its best to balance the competing demands of a) letting the new coach choose their squad and b) the timing issues, and not leaving the new coach with too many spots to fill, too late in the off season, and only dregs to choose from.
It's not ideal, but then nothing ever is.
This forum has gone quite weird - everyone is incredibly defensive when it comes to criticism of the club - and we have to take every single thing the club announces as gospel
Arf!
First of all, the forum hasn't gone quite weird, it's always been quite weird.
Second, not everybody on here feels they have to play the same devil's advocate role that you do, where every single thing the club says or does gets questioned, or has the most negative spin possible put on it. You're actually very good at that so I feel like I don't need to bother.
I listened to David Dome on the podcast and it sounded to me like the club is doing its best to balance the competing demands of a) letting the new coach choose their squad and b) the timing issues, and not leaving the new coach with too many spots to fill, too late in the off season, and only dregs to choose from.
It's not ideal, but then nothing ever is.
Not ideal !! Flippin unreal !! What football club in the world picks the players for its coach.
But then the club management has no-one else (outside Greenacre and RH can't have a hand in - surely ?) who knows anything about football, how an A League football club operates, how to find a coach etc etc. Adelaide have their new coach in the wings now, if they need one.
Flashback
" The owners of the Wellington Phoenix have rewarded loyalty by promoting David
Dome to the position of general manager today.
Welnix chairman Rob Morrison said the owners had interviewed a quality field
of applicants, from as far afield as Europe, the United States and Australia,
and that it was Dome's passion that set him apart from the rest. "
Sorry, passion is not enough to run a football club. Scary to think what we'll end up with.
P.S.
However I concede that any Oz assistant coach could not possibly indicate publically any interest, let alone sign on right now for Wn Phoenix. In which case the club's timeline makes sense. I must admit I have heard a rumour from a club football friend over there.
But then the club management has no-one else (outside Greenacre and RH can't have a hand in - surely ?) who knows anything about football, how an A League football club operates, how to find a coach etc etc.
I'm sorry, but this statement is fundamentally incorrect. The Phoenix have many people on the board who know a lot about football, and it is those people who are in charge of the footballing decisions. Domey has said that he isn't on the panels of the board that decide on players, and the only reason he is part of the panel to select the board is because as GM, all the applications are coming to him.
I highly recommend you listen to this weeks In The Zone podcast before raging, you are just making yourself look foolish.
Not ideal !! Flippin unreal !! What football club in the world picks the players for its coach.
Not ideal !! Flippin unreal !! What football club in the world picks the players for its coach.
Look at Chelsea at the moment, they have decided that Lampard isn't coming back next season, but they haven't even sorted out who will be coaching them next season. Player's being signed before a manager is found is not unusual at all in the footballing world.
Not ideal !! Flippin unreal !! What football club in the world picks the players for its coach.
Look at Chelsea at the moment, they have decided that Lampard isn't coming back next season, but they haven't even sorted out who will be coaching them next season. Player's being signed before a manager is found is not unusual at all in the footballing world.
Quite right.
Tonya - I honestly don't think you have a clue what you're talking about. This situation is quite common in football leagues all around the world, particularly at clubs with a high turnover of coaches. In fact, even in the EPL it is not uncommon for The Chairman or CEO to actually take the lead in recruitment matters.
Coaches the world over are well used to inheriting squads and having to make the best of it. No different here.
(...)
I highly recommend you listen to this weeks In The Zone podcast before raging, you are just making yourself look foolish.
o find the latest podcast, do you go to the beginning or the end of the "Podcasts" thread?
Sorry for being a mentally challenged slob, but if someone has the link directly to the latest Podcast #50, that would be apprecuiated ...
FFS, I can't even spell. "To find the latest podcast... etc etc ... that would be appreciated".
I have to say that I don't believe there is any fundamental right way to structure a professional football club. There are so many various different models in different countries and in different leagues, that to say out right that the Phoenix selection set up is all wrong is pretty brave.
For example, the Spanish and Italian models are quite different from the English one. Whereas in the EPL it is the Manager who, usually, is responsible for the football, and therefore has the authority to decide how to put the squad together, in Spain or Italy it is usually the job of the Director of Football or Chief Scout who is responsible for signing the Coach and putting the playing squad together. In the majority of cases, though not all, they usually consult with the man in charge at the time, but in many other cases the President or owner, who is in charge of everything, has the last say. In practice, both set-ups are restricted to whatever budget is available and even in a club where the head coach has complete say, he still will only ever be able to get 2 or 3 of the players on their wish list (I'm paraphrasing Rafa Benitez).
Also, I have to agree with Patrick, there are plenty of people in the Phoenix organisation who have footballing knowledge.
(...)
I highly recommend you listen to this weeks In The Zone podcast before raging, you are just making yourself look foolish.
o find the latest podcast, do you go to the beginning or the end of the "Podcasts" thread?
Sorry for being a mentally challenged slob, but if someone has the link directly to the latest Podcast #50, that would be apprecuiated ...
It's on the last page but here you go www.yellowfever.podomatic.com & Itunes bit.ly/YFZone.
FFS, I can't even spell. "To find the latest podcast... etc etc ... that would be appreciated".
Every new episode gets posted on the thread, so the latest one should be on the last couple of pages of that thread or so.
The front page also has an ebedded link and will have a banner as soon as I get around to it.
Not sure the Mantra point was understood by the author if he suggests Merrick.
Greenie with Ross Aloisi as assistant??
be a combination of loyal club men...an attacker and a defensive mid...
Of course signing a player with a proven A League record, and who looked in better shape than I've ever seen him in a recent pic posted on here, was a ridculous idea. Obviously no other potential coach would want a quality player like that anywhere near our squad.
Well the guy appointing the coach agrees with me.
Quoting David Dome in the Herald: "Dome said they wanted to appoint a new coach shortly so the successful applicant could have a say in who would be on the roster for next year, as opposed to if they came on board in June or July when most of the squad would be inked."
He's going to be close to our highest paid player. Whether he is in good nick or not, or whether he is good enough or not, isn't really the point. I just find it odd that either Dome and other non-football staff are signing players, or they let Ricki commit to a player a couple of weeks before he was sacked. The manager needs to be the one signing players
I think that indicates Ricki really resigned. If the club is letting the coach make decisions on signing players to fit into the coach's team then the club, at the time of Hernandez signing, was expecting Ricki to continue as coach next season. And if the clubs stance on Ricki changed from when Hernandez signed to the point Ricki resigned, I doubt the club would have sacked Ricki this close to the end of the season when they could have waited a month and not needing to be this negative story played out in the media.
Ricki may have had thoughts that he was unlikely to remain as coach by the time the club undertakes its end of season review, or not enjoying the atmosphere at the club or both and with important All Whites fixtures coming up though it was best for both club and country he resign.
Greenie with Ross Aloisi as assistant??
be a combination of loyal club men...an attacker and a defensive mid...
Aloisi is a nice guy and all but playing thirteen games, retiring then leaving for Australia is not what I would call a loyal club man. Inaugural Captain and influential in his time her. Just not sure I could call him a "Loyal club man"
Greenie with Ross Aloisi as assistant??
be a combination of loyal club men...an attacker and a defensive mid...
Aloisi is a nice guy and all but playing thirteen games, retiring then leaving for Australia is not what I would call a loyal club man. Inaugural Captain and influential in his time her. Just not sure I could call him a "Loyal club man"
+1
Greenie with Ross Aloisi as assistant??
be a combination of loyal club men...an attacker and a defensive mid...
Aloisi is a nice guy and all but playing thirteen games, retiring then leaving for Australia is not what I would call a loyal club man. Inaugural Captain and influential in his time her. Just not sure I could call him a "Loyal club man"
+1
Agreed, Aloisi should have shipped his family over to NZ, closed his Adelaide business and set it up here... they could've stayed under the stand at Newtown... they've no commitment these young blokes these days.
Greenie with Ross Aloisi as assistant??
be a combination of loyal club men...an attacker and a defensive mid...
Aloisi is a nice guy and all but playing thirteen games, retiring then leaving for Australia is not what I would call a loyal club man. Inaugural Captain and influential in his time her. Just not sure I could call him a "Loyal club man"
+1
Agreed, Aloisi should have shipped his family over to NZ, closed his Adelaide business and set it up here... they could've stayed under the stand at Newtown... they've no commitment these young blokes these days.
Think you have missed my point. I was saying not sure how you could be "A Loyal clubman" after just one year, playing 13 games?
Greenie with Ross Aloisi as assistant??
be a combination of loyal club men...an attacker and a defensive mid...
Aloisi is a nice guy and all but playing thirteen games, retiring then leaving for Australia is not what I would call a loyal club man. Inaugural Captain and influential in his time her. Just not sure I could call him a "Loyal club man"
Well inaugural captain and lionheart. Interested in the job (maybe not the assistants though I guess...!) and a bit of a cheerleader for the 'Nix. Someone who has more 'nix history and buy-in than some of the names being mentioned. Except Lee Norfolk of course.
I duno- I though maybe Greenie doesn't want to, i just thought well why not keep him on. At least it keeps it in the family as it were.
Greenie with Ross Aloisi as assistant??
be a combination of loyal club men...an attacker and a defensive mid...
Aloisi is a nice guy and all but playing thirteen games, retiring then leaving for Australia is not what I would call a loyal club man. Inaugural Captain and influential in his time her. Just not sure I could call him a "Loyal club man"
+1
Agreed, Aloisi should have shipped his family over to NZ, closed his Adelaide business and set it up here... they could've stayed under the stand at Newtown... they've no commitment these young blokes these days.
Think you have missed my point. I was saying not sure how you could be "A Loyal clubman" after just one year, playing 13 games?
Lol. I have had pickled onions in the fridge longer.
Damn... I was hoping the TTP filter on the forums was fixed. I guess not. Ahhhh well.