FFA restrictions on Phoenix

Can someone explaining why FU BLU is trying to troll me about being an ACFC fan? I certainly was at one point until I got pissed off by the "active membership"'s anti-Nix chants. I'll happily go to Kiwitea again the day I can wear both Blue and Yellow together. I'll even cheer for Auckland against TW.

You raise interesting points but I don't see the Phoenix being allowed in the O League. The island teams in particular wouldn't want a fully professional team full of NZ internationals in the competition, given that the Phoenix's budget is five or six times that of most O League teams. They have a hard enough time coping with ACFC. 

From ACFC's point of view I'm a bit more flexible if the trade off is NZ players not being classified as imports in the wider A League. However the ASBP survives to a large extent on O League prize money so that would all still have to reinvested in the national league even if the Nix won the right to go to the CWC. I must admit ACFC playing off home and away against the Nix to go to the Fifa CWC would be quite tasty and would certainly drag in punters but it won't happen for various reasons, not least OFC politics.

On the counter argument the O League is getting stronger as it is and more competitive and I don't think Fifa will tamper with it.

Wont happen. The WC will be 40 teams by 2022 with a place for Oceania. AFC wont even consider the above.

Lighten up Doloras, chants against other teams are a feature of all football matches and often are done more in jest than anything else. The Nix are the tall poppy in NZ football just like ACFC are the tall poppy in the ASBP. It's all part of the fun, don't take it so personally. I've seen Nix shirts worn at Kiwitea Street without any problem.

Yeah, chants against other teams in your competition that you're actually rivals with maybe. 

Will never understand this. We aren't even in the same completion, why would you chant against a team in the A league at an ASBP game? Makes no sense. You'd be better of chanting anti-TW songs. 

This is way off what I think is an interesting thread but we do chants against other ASBP teams at Kiwitea Street as well. We even skewer Man U like most sensible people in world football. It's just a bit of fun. Flu Blu is actually a secret admirer Doloras.

What happened to good old happyted? He used to bring some fun and games to the forum.

He's had a couple more usernames since then.

So you sing songs about a team that you are not playing? Man U too? Lol that's pretty sad... Such righteous Indignation, haha, classic.

Yeah I sort of guessed but happyted was the best. Sort of his Definitely, Maybe period of his trolling career.

Deny

Can we try to get back on topic because I think some interesting opinions are appearing on issues with wide ramifications for NZ football.

Nice try

Nah I wanna hear about the songs and stuff about the Nix and Man U. 

Do you guys have a secret club with a cool name and secret passwords? Do you have a shed or a camp where you all meet to practice? Do you have body odour issues? Do you write the name of bands on your school bag in felt tip?

Three separate issues...

1] I thinks it FIFA who decide for each WC which half spot plays what half spot... 

2] OFC teams could not beat the Nix so asking them to let you play is like the Nix's saying give the spot to me.

3] Many debates about OFC folding into AFC or the OFC coming in at a certain stage of the AFC  ... issue you have it has to be in the interest of the AFC and given the market size of the OFC I can't see the AFC at this stage seeing it in their financial interest or broader interest... 

My personal opinion is the OFC should be folded however where it goes I am not sure ... 

I don't think I said anywhere that the Nix would play in the OFC champions league... If I said that in the past then I take it back now. In fact by making OFC players count as "Asian" for ACL purposes then it would remove one of the big barriers to the Nix being able to compete in the ACL.

As for FIFA deciding who plays who in the WC playoff that's true I think, but didn't it get changed from AFC v OFC and CONCACAF v CONMEBOL after lobbying from CONCACAF? So lobbying in the other direction could help.

AJ is probably right though, it won't happen in the next couple of WC cycles and then there'll probably be a 40 team WC anyway. Which will be too big but FIFA just want to squeeze as much cash from the WC as they can

I was a bit confused reading Bluemagic and Midfielder's posts on this page about the Phoenix in the O-League. I think you make a very sensible proposition, but may need to dangle a wee bit more carrot in front of the AFC, even if FIFA allows Oceania to offer its half spot to Asia and compete in Asian qualifying.

TBF, I seem to remember when we beat the Gold Coast 6-0 that many people chanted "are you Auckland in disguise?" I thought that was poor taste at the time.

I think the FFA definitely see value in having the Phoenix in the A-League. The A-League needs more teams, not less. I very much doubt we would ever get to the stage where the FFA wouldn't want us in the league. However, I don't think we have any bargaining chips with them. Not being able to compete in the ACL doesn't annoy me as much the FFA Cup restrictions or not team in the NYL. It's also frustrating when they give reasons relating to travel costs when the real reason is that they just don't want to help us out. I guess we just have to be creative and look for other ways to get ahead.

I thought this was done via the drawing of lots of some sort.  Could be wrong though.

Oh, and anyone wanting to sing derisory chants about Liverpool at any ground & in any competition in the world, is a friend of mine.

CONCACAF I think had a 50% chance of getting CONMEBOL. Since New Zealand and Uruguay qualified in 2010 in 2014 Oceania would play either Asia or Concacaf (one of the losers from 2010).

Ive just read through this tread.

Had to stop a few times as I was laughing so hard. 

There is an interest for AFC, having a guaranteed half spot with OFC is worth a lot more than a half spot with South America or CONCACAF.  That is a big carrot. Also, cuts down on the travel for the playoffs which was ridiculous for all countries last time.

This is off topic but Australia and other Asian SE nations would probably prefer to split from Middle East to create and East and West Asia.  The current confederation doesn't really work because it covers too big an area and there is constant fighting between the traditional Korean and Japanese power houses and the new money in the Gulf over who controls the confederation.    

If that happened it would make sense geographically to combine East Asia and OFC. The issue is that the East Asians have no interest, and there is no benefit, to taking on OFC which contributes nothing other than costs (putting it harshly).  Plus there is no real road map to splitting the confederation in this way.  The West Asian confederation would be very rich but would be weak on the pitch.

This comes up in the Aussie media from time to time but it's basically a bit of a pipe dream.  If Aussie, Japan, China and Korea got together they may be able to make it happen.  But there's no real impetus to split that way as yet.  Mike Cockerill writes about it, you can look it up in the SMH archive.

Personally I think there is 0% chance of OFC and AFC merging as they currently work.  Way too big an area and nothing to be gained for AFC other than an additional half spot.

Don't  forget the "secret handshake"...or as Number 6 would say..."Be seeing you". (You know who is the Number 6 am referring to Fortean? I am not a number, I am a free man)

FU BLU 4 Deloras 4eva

FIFA have pretty much said the WC will expand from 2022 to 40 teams which means more fun for everyone.  Highly doubt anyone is going to split or merge. 1 Oceania, 1 Europe, 2 Asia, 2 African, 2 'American'. If 2 Asian nations are being added that all but guarantees West Asia with at least 2 places. AFC could even come up with some kind of regional based qualification themselves.

There's also the little matter of Oceania remaining its own confederation ensures a Fifa vote for whoever backs it, currently that's Blatter. If the WC expands to 40 then Oceania would have a direct route and NZ would have to really cock that up not to be the qualifier.

So I guess we just have to accept the situation as it is and Welnix just has to try and chip away at the FFA penalties imposed on the Nix. In light of this I guess having the Nix reserves in the ASBP is the best short-term solution to the reserve side dilemma, although I'm not a big fan of this from the national league point of view. I'd much rather a eight-franchise well funded and robust NL and the Nix reserves playing "friendlies" against each side.

As for NZ players not being imports to the Nix but deemed so for any other A League side, this is rather ridiculous. Somehow we must get NZ players removed as imports for the overall A League so that if ever NZ loses its A League franchise, there's plenty of opportunity for NZ players to continue playing in the A League, our nearest professional competition. 

I do think if the Nix make the quarter or semi-finals of the FFA Cup then surely they must be allowed at that stage to have true home games because there would be a lot of interest. As it is Adelaide got under 3,000 for the recent Nix FFA Cup "home" game. Coming off the buzz of beating WHU I think that game held in Wellington this week could have drawn up to three times that crowd.

If it ever transpires that Auckland enters another A League side, then there would have to be a renegotiation of all the restrictions imposed by FFA/AFC because I can't see Auckland investors coming up with the huge amounts required without being allowed to compete in the lucrative ACL or have a proper reserve team or have FFA Cup home games.

It is kinda good that Ernie is experiencing the FFA wrath. It proves to a very intelligent coach, exactly what we have been bitching about for some time. It shows him now, that we might have some grounds for feeling shat on. This Wee Mac thing is a prime example. They might want us in the league, maybe, but they certainly dont make is easy for us. And I mean, they dont make it as easy for us as they do their local teams. Eg the youth league league, the reserve league.

The NYL has been a bit of a expensive myth to most A-League clubs. Perth Glory - Bis Roar and Adelaide all stated its a waste (of funds)and wanted to put there sides in there local competition instead (And do now I believe).

Using the ASB prem for our Res side makes sense however I guess Australia has more talent and we would benefit more so to play there.

Also if the Welnix's tried to DEMAND shi7  a 'la Clive Palmer we could be remove from the league. There is no way we provide 4.5 bil views to Foxtels A-League market. Yet there is a market here maybe with a Darby we could see higher numbers. 

I still remember the FFA asking for us to be in the ACL - They didn't have to, but they did and the answer was NO. Cant blame the AFC can you imagine Thailand or Indonesian not having a team in the ACL but a "New Zealand team" gets in?. Think about it.