IO read the excerpt today from the SSTimes and my impression was that Siggy still hadn't owned up to the horrendous nature of what he did. It was all 'woe is me, it was so hard...' how about the poor bastard he stomped on?
Um...
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/sport/9162320/Ben-Sigmund-apologises-for-stomp
Lets draw a parallel here.
I don't now the full entire history of the Fever, but from what I can see Hard News and Smithy has had a big part to play.
Now let's say they give a young bloke called Patrick a chance when no one else was going to. They stood by him by thick and thin and he rose to a point where he was running a pod.
Patrick took the opportunity and rose quickly through the ranks, enjoying a cult following. He had women wanting to pash him left right and centre and grew famous.
Then one day, when News and Smithy were old and feeble and not really in a position to reply, he slagged them off.
It's obviously not important to some here, but loyalty goes a long way.
Fudge News and fudge Smithy.
Wait, what? Ricki is old and feeble and not in a position to reply? Are you saying they don't have email in the Maldives?
In any case, for your analogy to have any teeth, you would have to have had News and Smithy do some sharkty things to Patrick, for which he would be justified being grumpy despite the good things. To put it another way - if I do you a favour, that doesn't mean I own you.
it's not like Ricki bringing him into the team was out of the goodness of his own heart too. He bought him in to do a job, which would help make his job as manager of the Phoenix easier. It was a mutually beneficial decision, and certainly doesn't mean they have to be best friends for life as a result.
Much in the same way as you don't have to only ever say nice things for the rest of your life about your manager at work, if they hired you.
IO read the excerpt today from the SSTimes and my impression was that Siggy still hadn't owned up to the horrendous nature of what he did. It was all 'woe is me, it was so hard...' how about the poor bastard he stomped on?
Um...
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/sport/9162320/Ben-Sigmund-apologises-for-stomp
it's not like Ricki bringing him into the team was out of the goodness of his own heart too. He bought him in to do a job, which would help make his job as manager of the Phoenix easier. It was a mutually beneficial decision, and certainly doesn't mean they have to be best friends for life as a result.
Much in the same way as you don't have to only ever say nice things for the rest of your life about your manager at work, if they hired you.
Yes, but if you go and slag your ex manager off in front if a few hundred thousand people or even just him, then be prepared to be called out for what you are. Especially if you are trying to sell something
Not saying you need to say nice things. Just show a touch of class and appreciate who gave you a chance, coached you when you actually did really good things, helped make you become a pro, took you to a World Cup and make the Phoenix bloody popular.
Ask yourself where would Siggy be if Ricki hadn't signed him. Playing number 8 for a shark team in Christchurch, drinking piss after the match?
can understand where you're coming from, I just don't share your viewpoint.
I'm going to get the book and enjoy reading events from his perspective. There will be some interesting stories in there for sure.
To be fair, all Herbert seems to have done was not play Sigmund at the WC - I say "all" a bit loosely, as to Sigmund that "all" means the world, but that seems to be the gist of the beef with Herbert and everything (such as dissatisfaction at the Phoenix) seems to have grown from that.
The defence at the 2010 WC conceded just 2 goals - while Herbert should've at least shown better communication skills (if Sigmunds side of the events is taken as gospel), no one can argue that our defence wasn't rock solid, and what is the tactical benefit of changing that?
The truth is that both Reid and Smith are much better players than Sigmund, and if they were available earlier in the campaign then Sigmund wouldn't have played there either.
Should Sigmund have got on at some point, as a reward for his hard work in qualifying? It would have been nice.....but McGlinchey could say the same thing (esp v Paraguay), or Moss. And how did Peverley feel about being dicked about? There does seem to be a bit of 'woe is me' about it - maybe I'd feel the same. Probably would!
So Sigmunds position isn't a unique one - I hope one day he comes to terms with not playing......maybe writing the book is a cathartic process for him, he can exorcise the demons, and be at peace with what he actually did achieve.
(PS: Yeah, yeah.....read the book.....)
IO read the excerpt today from the SSTimes and my impression was that Siggy still hadn't owned up to the horrendous nature of what he did. It was all 'woe is me, it was so hard...' how about the poor bastard he stomped on?
Um...
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/sport/9162320/Ben-Sigmund-apologises-for-stomp
Yeah the article where he says he is sorry and that it was unacceptable. Calling a press conference is owning up to it.
IO read the excerpt today from the SSTimes and my impression was that Siggy still hadn't owned up to the horrendous nature of what he did. It was all 'woe is me, it was so hard...' how about the poor bastard he stomped on?
Um...
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/sport/9162320/Ben-Sigmund-apologises-for-stomp
Yeah the article where he says he is sorry and that it was unacceptable. Calling a press conference is owning up to it.
And to the 'read the book before you make a judgement' theorists - I haven't read all of the Bible either but I am quite happy making an overall judgement based on the parts of it that I have read.
Here at Yellow Fever, we are quite big fans of Ben Sigmund after what he has done for the Phoenix over the last 8 years. We've teamed up with him to put on a book launch to celebrate the release of his new book, Fully Committed: The Ben Sigmund Story.
What: Fully Committed book release
Where: Hotel Bristol, Cuba St
When: Sunday 22 May, 4pm onwards
Tickets are just $25, and we're going to give a Yellow Fever scarf to those of you who buy your ticket after 9am today (limited stock available).
Head over to Siggy's website to book your tickets: http://www.bensigmund.co.nz/events/, and if you aren't in Wellington, we think you should definitely head along to one of the many events Siggy's putting on around the country.
From what Siggy's released of his book so far, it's going to be one hell of a read, and who better to hear from than the man himself?
Dura, in particular, was really struggling mentally to deal with all the issues on his plate. He was so frustrated and felt at a loss to change the current situation. He pulled me aside after that session and said, "That's it. I'm not putting up with this shark any more". We'd been very, very loyal to Ricki and backed him on what he was doing as coach. We had sat down with Ricki on several occasions to go through the issues we had in the team. But nothing changed. Enough was enough.
See you there!
The Fever
I don't know why you are defending him so hard [oh yes, its more going against what I have to say than the truth or otherwise of the statement]. Try and be a little bit objective and less juvenile please.
It's cute you think I spend my time trawling through the forums for your posts so I can take the opposite stance.
Here at Yellow Fever, we are quite big fans of Ben Sigmund after what he has done for the Phoenix over the last 8 years. We've teamed up with him to put on a book launch to celebrate the release of his new book, Fully Committed: The Ben Sigmund Story.
What: Fully Committed book release
Where: Hotel Bristol, Cuba St
When: Sunday 22 March, 4pm onwards
Tickets are just $25, and we're going to give a Yellow Fever scarf to those of you who buy your ticket after 9am today (limited stock available).
Head over to Siggy's website to book your tickets: http://www.bensigmund.co.nz/events/, and if you aren't in Wellington, we think you should definitely head along to one of the many events Siggy's putting on around the country.
From what Siggy's released of his book so far, it's going to be one hell of a read, and who better to hear from than the man himself?
Dura, in particular, was really struggling mentally to deal with all the issues on his plate. He was so frustrated and felt at a loss to change the current situation. He pulled me aside after that session and said, "That's it. I'm not putting up with this shark any more". We'd been very, very loyal to Ricki and backed him on what he was doing as coach. We had sat down with Ricki on several occasions to go through the issues we had in the team. But nothing changed. Enough was enough.
See you there!
The Fever
Did Andrew Durante really say "shark"?
To be fair, all Herbert seems to have done was not play Sigmund at the WC - I say "all" a bit loosely, as to Sigmund that "all" means the world, but that seems to be the gist of the beef with Herbert and everything (such as dissatisfaction at the Phoenix) seems to have grown from that.
I don't agree, from what I read it seems as though Herbert and he had a communication breakdown and Herbert in general wasn't very good at telling players what was required of them or let them know what his thoughts were. You know the coaching part of coaching. Although the part where if he had better coaching he might have been good enough to retain his position was pretty harsh.
To be fair, all Herbert seems to have done was not play Sigmund at the WC - I say "all" a bit loosely, as to Sigmund that "all" means the world, but that seems to be the gist of the beef with Herbert and everything (such as dissatisfaction at the Phoenix) seems to have grown from that.
The defence at the 2010 WC conceded just 2 goals - while Herbert should've at least shown better communication skills (if Sigmunds side of the events is taken as gospel), no one can argue that our defence wasn't rock solid, and what is the tactical benefit of changing that?
The truth is that both Reid and Smith are much better players than Sigmund, and if they were available earlier in the campaign then Sigmund wouldn't have played there either.
Should Sigmund have got on at some point, as a reward for his hard work in qualifying? It would have been nice.....but McGlinchey could say the same thing (esp v Paraguay), or Moss. And how did Peverley feel about being dicked about? There does seem to be a bit of 'woe is me' about it - maybe I'd feel the same. Probably would!
So Sigmunds position isn't a unique one - I hope one day he comes to terms with not playing......maybe writing the book is a cathartic process for him, he can exorcise the demons, and be at peace with what he actually did achieve.
(PS: Yeah, yeah.....read the book.....)
I don't agree, from what I read it seems as though Herbert and he had a communication breakdown and Herbert in general wasn't very good at telling players what was required of them or let them know what his thoughts were. You know the coaching part of coaching.
I don't think this is a Sigmund v Herbert issue.......I have no love for Herbert after his undermining of the 2003 Confeds Cup......I'm saying that while its understandable Sigmund is bummed he didn't play in the WC, other players in his position were/are better - a fact borne out by the results. He was unlucky that we didn't have injuries/suspension.....but even then, would Ivan have dropped back into the defence?
I cant wait to read the juicy stuff like what does he think of Kim Kardashian and her cousing Max KEYdashian. Now there's the real dirt ?
Clearly. It's a direct quote.
Cant argue with black and white!
Ok, here's my 2 cents worth prior to reading the book. I am interested in his younger years. I am interested in his approach to turning professional. I am interested in his views of the A League and various players he has played with and against. Sure the All Whites 2010 campaign and yes that stomp. But there is more to Siggy than just that and some people really need to lighten up on it. Sure we dont want to read a book that spends its time slagging or being over glossey. But Siggy was one important hing, he was honest and direct with what he thought, said and played. I think this book will give an interesting perspective into the man's career on and off the field. Just as Ricki's was on his. I enjoyed his book too.
Best of luck with the launch Siggy.
Gah I wish I could attend the book launch event.
Good work chaps.
I am sure you know this Vader but the whole point of giving sections of the book to media like stuff, is to spark interest in the book and to get people to buy it.
I am sure that the juicy bits told thus far will have that effect and there seems to be a great deal of interest in buying the book on this forum with people saying "just buy the book"
As I said at the start when this kicked off, I was initially going to buy the book. I like Siggy and think he has a story to be told. If you check my history I have never had a bad word to say about him and I am no cheer leader of Herbert.
He has however lost some respect in my eyes however by dishing Herbert and as previously said I don't think anyone owes Ricki more then Siggy.
At times loyalty is to be respected. I just think Ricki is a cheap mark who is being used.
So on this occasion it has had the opposite effect. I will wait until a tatty copy hits the library.
Surely the interesting point is how critical a player who spent the bulk of his career is towards his club and national team manager? Whether it is appropriate or not is beside the point, it's what it shows about a key point in our history that is most relevant.
The players were dissatisfied at club and country level and no changes were made until things got really, really bad. Arguably that has harmed the game at international level significantly because credibility has been lost and it's clear that the players are not interested in playing international football. How we lost that respect for the national team jersey is a fascinating topic.
Don't forget, Ricki was the most powerful man in NZF for about 5 years. He is a valid target
Normo's coming home
I don't know why you are defending him so hard [oh yes, its more going against what I have to say than the truth or otherwise of the statement]. Try and be a little bit objective and less juvenile please.
It's cute you think I spend my time trawling through the forums for your posts so I can take the opposite stance.
I suppose Ricki could be a better communicator..... better like Hudson.
I don't know why you are defending him so hard [oh yes, its more going against what I have to say than the truth or otherwise of the statement]. Try and be a little bit objective and less juvenile please.
It's cute you think I spend my time trawling through the forums for your posts so I can take the opposite stance.
Nope. Just a good memory.
If you were around the Phoenix in the early days ( TS) , a lot of what was going on was being openly spoken about. I don't know how many times I heard it discussed in the Phoenix lounge about no video review of poor performances. parents of youth players speaking about the boys (team) views on training and training methods.
Last home game was a prime example of a not quiet discussion on the club in a very poor light. (Player may have been on the out) Don't know.
But I believe Ben's book will be on facts and feeling as know to him. Not a Slag off.
Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn
I suppose Ricki could be a better communicator..... better like Hudson.
Anfonys a great communicator, innit?
Lets draw a parallel here.
I don't now the full entire history of the Fever, but from what I can see Hard News and Smithy has had a big part to play.
Now let's say they give a young bloke called Patrick a chance when no one else was going to. They stood by him by thick and thin and he rose to a point where he was running a pod.
Patrick took the opportunity and rose quickly through the ranks, enjoying a cult following. He had women wanting to pash him left right and centre and grew famous.
Then one day, when News and Smithy were old and feeble and not really in a position to reply, he slagged them off.
It's obviously not important to some here, but loyalty goes a long way.
You mean like if Patrick told the Phoenix not to invite me to the Awards night this year for example?
Art imitating life imitating art.
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
Gah I wish I could attend the book launch event.
Good work chaps.
I really hope Sig gets a good turnout. And I hope all the lurkers on here turn out for him. Because not only is he a retiring Phoenix legend who we, as the proper fans, should all honour. He is also a really good man with a heart of gold and he deserves to have this little project succeed.
I implore all of you to buy a ticket and turn up. Even though most of you aren't in the habit of turning up to things (as is the Wellington way), make an effort for Siggy. He deserves it, especially from us!
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
Lets draw a parallel here.
I don't now the full entire history of the Fever, but from what I can see Hard News and Smithy has had a big part to play.
Now let's say they give a young bloke called Patrick a chance when no one else was going to. They stood by him by thick and thin and he rose to a point where he was running a pod.
Patrick took the opportunity and rose quickly through the ranks, enjoying a cult following. He had women wanting to pash him left right and centre and grew famous.
Then one day, when News and Smithy were old and feeble and not really in a position to reply, he slagged them off.
It's obviously not important to some here, but loyalty goes a long way.
You mean like if Patrick told the Phoenix not to invite me to the Awards night this year for example?
Art imitating life imitating art.
Hang on, did I do this? Or are we still in the hypothetical? I'm confused.
Lets draw a parallel here.
I don't now the full entire history of the Fever, but from what I can see Hard News and Smithy has had a big part to play.
Now let's say they give a young bloke called Patrick a chance when no one else was going to. They stood by him by thick and thin and he rose to a point where he was running a pod.
Patrick took the opportunity and rose quickly through the ranks, enjoying a cult following. He had women wanting to pash him left right and centre and grew famous.
Then one day, when News and Smithy were old and feeble and not really in a position to reply, he slagged them off.
It's obviously not important to some here, but loyalty goes a long way.
You mean like if Patrick told the Phoenix not to invite me to the Awards night this year for example?
Art imitating life imitating art.
Hang on, did I do this? Or are we still in the hypothetical? I'm confused.
?
Lets draw a parallel here.
I don't now the full entire history of the Fever, but from what I can see Hard News and Smithy has had a big part to play.
Now let's say they give a young bloke called Patrick a chance when no one else was going to. They stood by him by thick and thin and he rose to a point where he was running a pod.
Patrick took the opportunity and rose quickly through the ranks, enjoying a cult following. He had women wanting to pash him left right and centre and grew famous.
Then one day, when News and Smithy were old and feeble and not really in a position to reply, he slagged them off.
It's obviously not important to some here, but loyalty goes a long way.
You mean like if Patrick told the Phoenix not to invite me to the Awards night this year for example?
Art imitating life imitating art.
Hang on, did I do this? Or are we still in the hypothetical? I'm confused.
Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn
Lets draw a parallel here.
I don't now the full entire history of the Fever, but from what I can see Hard News and Smithy has had a big part to play.
Now let's say they give a young bloke called Patrick a chance when no one else was going to. They stood by him by thick and thin and he rose to a point where he was running a pod.
Patrick took the opportunity and rose quickly through the ranks, enjoying a cult following. He had women wanting to pash him left right and centre and grew famous.
Then one day, when News and Smithy were old and feeble and not really in a position to reply, he slagged them off.
It's obviously not important to some here, but loyalty goes a long way.
You mean like if Patrick told the Phoenix not to invite me to the Awards night this year for example?
Art imitating life imitating art.
Hang on, did I do this? Or are we still in the hypothetical? I'm confused.
Making us wait for your book? clever
Founder
Lets draw a parallel here.
I don't now the full entire history of the Fever, but from what I can see Hard News and Smithy has had a big part to play.
Now let's say they give a young bloke called Patrick a chance when no one else was going to. They stood by him by thick and thin and he rose to a point where he was running a pod.
Patrick took the opportunity and rose quickly through the ranks, enjoying a cult following. He had women wanting to pash him left right and centre and grew famous.
Then one day, when News and Smithy were old and feeble and not really in a position to reply, he slagged them off.
It's obviously not important to some here, but loyalty goes a long way.
You mean like if Patrick told the Phoenix not to invite me to the Awards night this year for example?
Art imitating life imitating art.
Hang on, did I do this? Or are we still in the hypothetical? I'm confused.
Making us wait for your book? clever
a yellow fever type book would have some great stories in it actually. I'd buy it.
Yellow fever - A story of football, drunken escapades, missed flights and white Jeans"
I've always thought a book on the history of professional football in New Zealand would be a great read, you'd have the old Rothmans days, Kingz, Knights and the Phoenix. Maybe one day if I get made redundant...
Normo's coming home
a yellow fever type book would have some great stories in it actually. I'd buy it.
Yellow fever - A story of football, drunken escapades, missed flights and white Jeans"
And one of the best bus trips ever.
Here at Yellow Fever, we are quite big fans of Ben Sigmund after what he has done for the Phoenix over the last 8 years. We've teamed up with him to put on a book launch to celebrate the release of his new book, Fully Committed: The Ben Sigmund Story.
What: Fully Committed book release
Where: Hotel Bristol, Cuba St
When: Sunday 22 May, 4pm onwards
Tickets are just $25, and we're going to give a Yellow Fever scarf to those of you who buy your ticket after 9am today (limited stock available).
Head over to Siggy's website to book your tickets: http://www.bensigmund.co.nz/events/, and if you aren't in Wellington, we think you should definitely head along to one of the many events Siggy's putting on around the country.
From what Siggy's released of his book so far, it's going to be one hell of a read, and who better to hear from than the man himself?
Dura, in particular, was really struggling mentally to deal with all the issues on his plate. He was so frustrated and felt at a loss to change the current situation. He pulled me aside after that session and said, "That's it. I'm not putting up with this shark any more". We'd been very, very loyal to Ricki and backed him on what he was doing as coach. We had sat down with Ricki on several occasions to go through the issues we had in the team. But nothing changed. Enough was enough.
See you there!
The Fever
No extra scarfs for those who bought their tickets 2 weeks ago??
TV1 sports news did a story on Siggy Wednesday night - here is the link to watch it https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/football/retired-all-white-ben-sigmund-opens-up-playing-career?autoPlay=4877206304001
Think I will just turn up on the night in Wellington ... ticket booking system seems a bit weird ...
