Interesting interview with Ricki on RS this morning - he was very much about the Phoenix having a system/style/philosophy across the club (ie: pros, academy, kids academies, etc). Accent was very much on grooming the younger players so they're on board when/if they move through to the first team.
He sounded much more like a Director of Football than a Coach... so... who's gonna coach this new style next year?
I must say I think there is an element of media beat-up about this. Although I also don't think the Nix have been smart about putting out what should have been a good news story.
They've let the media turn "we want to be more entertaining" into "owners tell coach what to do". Coming in the same week as "owners want to turn Nix into travelling circus" it's making Welnix look like a bunch of numpties.
I must say I think there is an element of media beat-up about this. Although I also don't think the Nix have been smart about putting out what should have been a good news story.
They've let the media turn "we want to be more entertaining" into "owners tell coach what to do". Coming in the same week as "owners want to turn Nix into travelling circus" it's making Welnix look like a bunch of numpties.
Sack the Kit Man/Media Manager
1. We are incredibly fortunate to have a group of owners who are astute businessmen, have committed to the club for 5 years and have a vision of building a sustainable, enduring franchise based on the identification and development of local talent.
2. They have a clearly stated aim of the Nix breaking even.
3. It is clear to most / all the current "product" is not saleable to enough customers to achieve breakeven and therefore sustain the club in the medium / longer term. The "product" needs to have greater entertainment value.
4. Herbert has been put on notice by the owners that the current style is not drawing enough customers and it need to change - play a more entertaining style or we'll get a coach who can / will.
5. Gareth has gone too far, and got out of his depth, in talking about formations but that doesn't detract from the main message - increase the entertainment value by playing more attractive football.
6. The timing is wrong - we are constrained in our ability to change style by the players we have in our squad - unless the owners are prepared to change their stance on a marquee and / or bring in a loan player. The owners have to take some responsibility for this - they presumably signed off the re-signing of our midfield despite the stated recruitment objectives for the last off season including; adding creativity to our midfield and signing a right back.
7. I support the owners position however I think Gareth went too far talking about formations and I think the timing is wrong - should be end not mid -season. However, if the net result is younger more skilful players (i.e. Fenton, Boyd and Totori) get more game time then great. I hope however the biggest benefit of the owners' frustration is that we will be far more committed and driven to achieve our recruitment objectives next off season than we have been in the past.
I must say I think there is an element of media beat-up about this. Although I also don't think the Nix have been smart about putting out what should have been a good news story.
They've let the media turn "we want to be more entertaining" into "owners tell coach what to do". Coming in the same week as "owners want to turn Nix into travelling circus" it's making Welnix look like a bunch of numpties.
Morgan really shouldn't talk football should he
It's interesting. This is the Phoenix board. There're a lot less football experience on there than you'd expect to see on even a local club side board. I do think they're a bit lightweight in that area
PositionNameChairmanRob MorrisonBoard memberCameron HarlandBoard memberKerry PrendergastBoard memberGareth MorganBoard memberNoah HickeyBoard memberMark ChoteBoard memberCampbell Gower
Normo's coming home
I must say I think there is an element of media beat-up about this. Although I also don't think the Nix have been smart about putting out what should have been a good news story.
They've let the media turn "we want to be more entertaining" into "owners tell coach what to do". Coming in the same week as "owners want to turn Nix into travelling circus" it's making Welnix look like a bunch of numpties.
433 =/ total football, we've been playing 433 for years.
We've played Barca's formation, same player roles etc.
Any way, if we are going to play total football how do we do it?
Surely we need a change in personnel.
Creator - ?
Destroyer - Muscat Lia Smith (this has to be our problem,
Passer - Sanchez, Biss?
Atm I guess we could have C-Sanchez D-Muscat P-Smith.
433 =/ total football, we've been playing 433 for years.
We've played Barca's formation, same player roles etc.
Any way, if we are going to play total football how do we do it?
Surely we need a change in personnel.
Creator - ?
Destroyer - Muscat Lia Smith (this has to be our problem,
Passer - Sanchez, Biss?
Atm I guess we could have C-Sanchez D-Muscat P-Smith.
1. We are incredibly fortunate to have a group of owners who are astute businessmen, have committed to the club for 5 years and have a vision of building a sustainable, enduring franchise based on the identification and development of local talent.
2. They have a clearly stated aim of the Nix breaking even.
3. It is clear to most / all the current "product" is not saleable to enough customers to achieve breakeven and therefore sustain the club in the medium / longer term. The "product" needs to have greater entertainment value.
4. Herbert has been put on notice by the owners that the current style is not drawing enough customers and it need to change - play a more entertaining style or we'll get a coach who can / will.
5. Gareth has gone too far, and got out of his depth, in talking about formations but that doesn't detract from the main message - increase the entertainment value by playing more attractive football.
6. The timing is wrong - we are constrained in our ability to change style by the players we have in our squad - unless the owners are prepared to change their stance on a marquee and / or bring in a loan player. The owners have to take some responsibility for this - they presumably signed off the re-signing of our midfield despite the stated recruitment objectives for the last off season including; adding creativity to our midfield and signing a right back.
7. I support the owners position however I think Gareth went too far talking about formations and I think the timing is wrong - should be end not mid -season. However, if the net result is younger more skilful players (i.e. Fenton, Boyd and Totori) get more game time then great. I hope however the biggest benefit of the owners' frustration is that we will be far more committed and driven to achieve our recruitment objectives next off season than we have been in the past.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
I must say I think there is an element of media beat-up about this. Although I also don't think the Nix have been smart about putting out what should have been a good news story.
They've let the media turn "we want to be more entertaining" into "owners tell coach what to do". Coming in the same week as "owners want to turn Nix into travelling circus" it's making Welnix look like a bunch of numpties.
Morgan really shouldn't talk football should he
It's interesting. This is the Phoenix board. There're a lot less football experience on there than you'd expect to see on even a local club side board. I do think they're a bit lightweight in that area
PositionNameChairmanRob MorrisonBoard memberCameron HarlandBoard memberKerry PrendergastBoard memberGareth MorganBoard memberNoah HickeyBoard memberMark ChoteBoard memberCampbell Gower
First thing we need to do is get rid of Smith and Totori and bring in some proven quality capable of influencing this style of play week in/week out. Im not bagging Smith, but hes a waste of an import spot - would be a different story if he were Aussie/kiwi but hes not. I was all for Totori to prove himself but ive seen little thus far to suggest we keep him on after this season. And possibly even Sanchez - depending on what hes like once hes back from injury/or if he gets injured again.. etc. I just feel like we're wasting way too much space, and with the whole Downey, Pantelis thing too. This shit blows.
We're going to need some key play makers to turn our style around.
I think there is an element of a beat-up here. When I heard Gareth my thought was actually "thank f**k". After the steaming pile that the team served up last week I lost a serious amount of interest and enthusiasm. So it would good to revive some of that, and playing decent football would be a start. I also didn't see hear anything inappropriate in what he said. Except, as noted, when he briefly touched on formation - and I figured that this was probably came from his discussions with Ricki rather than purely from board room theorising.
Welnix have stumped up a big sum of money, and are trying to sell a product to the public. If it was Griffins and the biscuit factory started churning out weevil-filled wafers instead of gingernuts I would expect the board to step in and tell the factory manager to fix the product. This isn't any different.
Welnix have stumped up a big sum of money, and are trying to sell a product to the public. If it was Griffins and the biscuit factory started churning out weevil-filled wafers instead of gingernuts I would expect the board to step in and tell the factory manager to fix the product. This isn't any different.
3. It is clear to most / all the current "product" is not saleable to enough customers to achieve breakeven and therefore sustain the club in the medium / longer term. The "product" needs to have greater entertainment value.
The product has got to be more than just how well or sexy the Phoenix are playing, that could just result in more people watching on TV. The fan experience needs to be the focus. Plus make the club cooler (merchandise is terrible)
3. It is clear to most / all the current "product" is not saleable to enough customers to achieve breakeven and therefore sustain the club in the medium / longer term. The "product" needs to have greater entertainment value.
The product has got to be more than just how well or sexy the Phoenix are playing, that could just result in more people watching on TV. The fan experience needs to be the focus. Plus make the club cooler (merchandise is terrible)
3. It is clear to most / all the current "product" is not saleable to enough customers to achieve breakeven and therefore sustain the club in the medium / longer term. The "product" needs to have greater entertainment value.
The product has got to be more than just how well or sexy the Phoenix are playing, that could just result in more people watching on TV. The fan experience needs to be the focus. Plus make the club cooler (merchandise is terrible)
Surprised that they haven't told the Nix to shutdown the Club Membership website and facebook pages.
Interesting interview with Ricki on RS this morning - he was very much about the Phoenix having a system/style/philosophy across the club (ie: pros, academy, kids academies, etc). Accent was very much on grooming the younger players so they're on board when/if they move through to the first team.
He sounded much more like a Director of Football than a Coach... so... who's gonna coach this new style next year?
Wellington Phoenix coach Ricki Herbert talks to Radio Sport host Tony Veitch about the directive given to him by club owner Gareth Morgan to play a more attractive and attacking style of football.
Listening to Ricki's response was very interesting. He steered well clear of mentioning attacking football on the field despite Veitch's best attempts.
Ricki more wanted to talk about making the Phoenix brand and image off field more exciting. To be honest after listening to that I'm not really expecting fuck all will change on the field.
433 =/ total football, we've been playing 433 for years.
We've played Barca's formation, same player roles etc.
Any way, if we are going to play total football how do we do it?
Surely we need a change in personnel.
Creator - ?
Destroyer - Muscat Lia Smith (this has to be our problem,
Passer - Sanchez, Biss?
Atm I guess we could have C-Sanchez D-Muscat P-Smith.
Interesting interview with Ricki on RS this morning - he was very much about the Phoenix having a system/style/philosophy across the club (ie: pros, academy, kids academies, etc). Accent was very much on grooming the younger players so they're on board when/if they move through to the first team.
He sounded much more like a Director of Football than a Coach... so... who's gonna coach this new style next year?
Wellington Phoenix coach Ricki Herbert talks to Radio Sport host Tony Veitch about the directive given to him by club owner Gareth Morgan to play a more attractive and attacking style of football.
http://radiosport.co.nz/player/ondemand/530222682-herbert-on-owners---more-attacking--message
Veitch?
"We went to the world cup....was undefeated..."
Not a good example, surely ? 2 shots on goal in 3 games...
Can't use that to help us with playing attacking football now ffs.
Nothing will change.
Welnix have stumped up a big sum of money, and are trying to sell a product to the public. If it was Griffins and the biscuit factory started churning out weevil-filled wafers instead of gingernuts I would expect the board to step in and tell the factory manager to fix the product. This isn't any different.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
My comment I made on Gareth's blog on this topic:
Blog post here: http://garethsworld.com/blog/wellington-phoenix/phoenix/
I'm an avid follower of the Premier League, A-league & Int. football.
Also very much a fan of 'total football' being dutch and all
However I question whether it really is for us!
In my opinion it's structure and a solid team we need. Kind of like with England before the recent Euros. They could have gone with Redknapp, a player manager who would attempt to spark strengths of players with free formations & good player management. Or Hodgson, a tactical manager. They went with Hodgson and to me that recognised that England aren't Spain, Germany or the Netherlands. They needed to be well drilled and structured in their approach.
The Phoenix will never be Victory or Sydney with the $$$ and that inherently makes us 'underdogs'
The
only way underdogs have overachieved in recent major international
tournaments is by being defensive and functional. Uruguay in 2011 Copa
America, Zambia in the ACoN with the lowest pass completion rate in the
tournament (Greece in Euro 2004) also. Uruguay and Ghana at the 2010
World Cup. All very defensive/reactive sides. It’s difficult to name a
recent
underdog that has overachieved by playing attractive football.
The same can be seen in the A-league, well structured Mariners always 'over-achieving'.
The Mariners seem to be the only ones to maintain defensive consistency, I believe the Phoenix have the CBs to make it a reality.
Also regarding total football. Do we really have the personnel to make that a reality? Muscat is your enforcer, a Song/Parker kind of player. But what about your technician? Arteta/Modric/Paartalu/Finkler type player. Someone that will string passes all day long, I just don't see someone in the current squad who can do that.
Credit to Welnix for the "school of excellence" that was a great move. Also Huysegems seems a clever signing, there's no point buying someone waiting to flourish, someone tried and true is a good move for Nix. We don't have the wages to hold onto high level developing talent (Rojas) but building from the bottom and the top seems a good move to me
gareth continually using the term 'total football' is frankly embarrassing
it's obvious he means attacking or entertaining football, of which there are many different ways to do it. Naming one specific playing style that no a-league team is capable of is ridiculous
i guess he just remembers it being in the news a lot in the 70s and it's easy to type/say
linking to the wikipedia page in his blog makes it worse, especially when the wikipedia entry even specifically states:
"The term Total Football is often misused to describe any attacking football."
Did he read it before linking it?
I usually love gareth and how he speaks his mind, but sometimes you just gotta shut it when you don't know what you're talking about
Anyone else think that Ifill has a mean pass on him (both short and long)? We all know that he can beat his man and draws defenders out of position - but I think he reads the game well too and has played some very astute passes that have opened up defences.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
I usually love gareth and how he speaks his mind, but sometimes you just gotta shut it when you don't know what you're talking about
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
Hmmm does Gareth Morgan = Declan Edge?
Both use the football cliches but whether they actually know what they are talking about...
Grumpy old bastard alert
Anyone else think that Ifill has a mean pass on him (both short and long)? We all know that he can beat his man and draws defenders out of position - but I think he reads the game well too and has played some very astute passes that have opened up defences.
http://garethsworld.com/blog/wellington-phoenix/phoenix/
Since I don't know how to post a reply on there, refering to the blog:
With professional players is it fun to "play around" with them?
A fan is a fan.
Anyone else think that Ifill has a mean pass on him (both short and long)? We all know that he can beat his man and draws defenders out of position - but I think he reads the game well too and has played some very astute passes that have opened up defences.
