It's laughable isn't it. The Phoenix aren't helping NZ football by getting 9000 people along, front page news in the papers and headlining TV sports news, but they are supporting NZ football by denigrating our world cup qualification, all because it happened in Wellington.
New Zealand football supporters my arse.
I too would play Durante and McKain, plus love Ifill, and think Dadi is the business. But I also think the likes of Haynes, Coombes and Feneridis could step up to a professional standard if given a chance at the Phoenix. I know they'd play their hearts out for you. Look at Brockie, he was rejected by Herbert and is doing well at the Fury.
Would be good to see how brockie plays this Friday, But you cant really say he's been electrifying.
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Would be good to see how brockie plays this Friday, But you cant really say he's been electrifying.
In fact, you could say he's been quite the opposite. One deflected goal, and all of a sudden he's a star of the league. Pfft.
I watched Brockie in the NZFC and he was very average. Not surprised Ricky wasn't interested one little bit.el grapadura2010-01-11 18:52:30
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Brockie has been pretty average to say the least, which just enforces your real lack of understanding. He goes on stupid runs, loses the ball often and has missed an almost ferrante level of chances. If you have ever seen Rojas play for the nix, then surely you noticed it is a bit above his skill level? No offence to him because he is an exceptional talent but honestly he gets pushed off balls far to easily for him to be a more effective substitution than say Caeceres.
I personally think some of our Aussie players show more heart. Remember Ross Aloisi? He gave everything, every time he was on the pitch. Did you not see how Troy reacted when he scored his first goal? How can you say a overseas player like Ifill is interested in money when he turned down plenty to come and stay here?
I think the Phoenix do have a roll in developing Kiwi talent no doubt- but they are also a professional football franchise and you can't forget that.
I personally think some of our Aussie players show more heart. Remember Ross Aloisi? He gave everything, every time he was on the pitch. Did you not see how Troy reacted when he scored his first goal? How can you say a overseas player like Ifill is interested in money when he turned down plenty to come and stay here?
I think the Phoenix do have a roll in developing Kiwi talent no doubt- but they are also a professional football franchise and you can't forget that.
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By the way, before everyone gets too excited about the All Whites, they scored one goal over two games against mediocre Arab opposition. Bahrain wasted three easy scoring chances that any half-decent team would have put away. City scored two against similar opposition. I suspect Herbert is going to get a reality check when he comes up against better opposition. Well done for filling the Cake Tin. I know a lot of Aucklanders who went down and had a great time.
I had a big lol at the majority of this post. You sir do not have an absolute clue.
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I merely asked - how is this helping local football?
By being here, thus raising the profile of the game.
Minutes on the pitch have to be earned, I'd rather not send the message of 'if you're a kiwi you'll walk straight into the team' to potential fans and kids aspiring to play for the Phoenix
Walk down a Wgtn city street during the school hols. Count the number of kids wearing nix gear.
Go to a nix game. Count the number of kids with or without nix gear, yellling and screaming their lungs out.
Go to a school playground - watch the number of kids playing football trying to be like Leo or Paul ifill.
Then run like mad as the cops chase after you as a suspected pedo.
It has been posted in other threads, but the massive increase in junor football in wgtn does appear very closely linked in time to the creation of the nix.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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Fair enough, but it's a thorny issue in British (in fact European) football as well. Are too many imports supressing the opportunities for local players? It's not racism. I like to see the best but the truth is the most successful teams culitvate and promote local talent. Just look at Man U and Giggs, Scholes, Neville, Beckham etc. I do credit the Phoenix with raising the profile of NZ football, but remember the hard slog was done by the Kingz and Knights before you (they amassed a total of 8 seasons between them). I wish you every success but I'd still like to see the Phoenix as a doorway for more NZ talent to enter the professional game. Give them a chance, I think you'd be surprised.
The comparison is obviously stupid but anyway, I note that Manchester United only had 3 English players against Wigan the other week. They sometimes have one or two more, but sometimes less than 3 (Wellington's lowest number of NZ players fielded). It's also obviously a lot harder for us to cultivate local talent without a youth / reserve team. And of course it's only our third year, so not much time to 'cultivate' talent. Man Utd don't just chuck in unproven young players willy nilly. They have to be extremely talented and proven first. And Beckham was a couple of years older than Rojas when he started playing in the Premier League.
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Just about everybody would like more New Zealanders playing for the Phoenix (actually, more Wellingtonians please!). But keeping the club successful in the A-League is also critical. New Zealand lessens its chances to stay in the A-League if we start picking players purely on nationality and start failing as a result from the experiment you'd like to see happen. Having a well supported, highly competitive professional football team is very important for New Zealand Football to continue the wonderful development we have seen.
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My neighbour is a local school teacher....he said all through playtime and lunch today,heaps of kids were out in the playground with footballs trying to do Eugene Dadi bicycle kicks. Thats what it means to have a local pro football team. These kids need football heroes....at the moment its overseas players like Dadi and Ifill. In time they will have more kiwi football heroes like leo and Smeltzy.
Actually this whole arguement smacks of Auckland jealousy. The Phoenix have a success and following that the old Auckland based Knights and Kings could only dream of.
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Please don't ban him News. it's fun watching people embarrass themselves.
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and you guys think I'M THE IDIOT !!!!!!!
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and you guys think I'M THE IDIOT !!!!!!!
You are an idiot. There is more than just one on here.
Three for me, and two for them.
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My neighbour is a local school teacher....he said all through playtime and lunch today,heaps of kids were out in the playground with footballs trying to do Eugene Dadi bicycle kicks. Thats what it means to have a local pro football team. These kids need football heroes....at the moment its overseas players like Dadi and Ifill. In time they will have more kiwi football heroes like leo and Smeltzy.
Has school started already??Actually this whole arguement smacks of Auckland jealousy. The Phoenix have a success and following that the old Auckland based Knights and Kings could only dream of.
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I don't understand where people get the idea that it is Wellington Phoenix's responsibility to develop football in this country.
It is New Zealand Football's responsibility (through investment, coaching, NZFC etc) to develop the game in New Zealand. Wellington Phoenix simply provide an OPPORTUNITY for New Zealand players.
Wellington Phoenix's responsibility is to simply win games for themselves and the fans. End of.
It is New Zealand Football's responsibility (through investment, coaching, NZFC etc) to develop the game in New Zealand. Wellington Phoenix simply provide an OPPORTUNITY for New Zealand players.
Wellington Phoenix's responsibility is to simply win games for themselves and the fans. End of.
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My neighbour is a local school teacher....he said all through playtime and lunch today,heaps of kids were out in the playground with footballs trying to do Eugene Dadi bicycle kicks. Thats what it means to have a local pro football team. These kids need football heroes....at the moment its overseas players like Dadi and Ifill. In time they will have more kiwi football heroes like leo and Smeltzy.
Actually this whole arguement smacks of Auckland jealousy. The Phoenix have a success and following that the old Auckland based Knights and Kings could only dream of.
Is it not school holidays ?
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I don't understand where people get the idea that it is Wellington Phoenix's responsibility to develop football in this country.
It is New Zealand Football's responsibility (through investment, coaching, NZFC etc) to develop the game in New Zealand. Wellington Phoenix simply provide an OPPORTUNITY for New Zealand players.
Wellington Phoenix's responsibility is to simply win games for themselves and the fans. End of.
It is New Zealand Football's responsibility (through investment, coaching, NZFC etc) to develop the game in New Zealand. Wellington Phoenix simply provide an OPPORTUNITY for New Zealand players.
Wellington Phoenix's responsibility is to simply win games for themselves and the fans. End of.
stands up and 
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my lot are into the Dadi special
it's like Zico '82 all over again
f**k passing, hows my acrobatics pappy?
Lia is good for the Phoneix. There is no Kiwi who could take his place. In fact Brown and Lochead are only in the team because they are Kiwi's and Herbert needs them for the WC.
in fact I would not mind Siggy - Durante - McKain as back 3
with Bertos and Hearfield as running wing backs
then I remembered it wasn't 1953 anymore
it's like Zico '82 all over again
f**k passing, hows my acrobatics pappy?
Lia is good for the Phoneix. There is no Kiwi who could take his place. In fact Brown and Lochead are only in the team because they are Kiwi's and Herbert needs them for the WC.
in fact I would not mind Siggy - Durante - McKain as back 3
with Bertos and Hearfield as running wing backs
then I remembered it wasn't 1953 anymore
E's Flat Ah's Flat Too
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My neighbour is a local school teacher....he said all through playtime and lunch today,heaps of kids were out in the playground with footballs trying to do Eugene Dadi bicycle kicks. Thats what it means to have a local pro football team. These kids need football heroes....at the moment its overseas players like Dadi and Ifill. In time they will have more kiwi football heroes like leo and Smeltzy.
Actually this whole arguement smacks of Auckland jealousy. The Phoenix have a success and following that the old Auckland based Knights and Kings could only dream of.
School holiday programme???
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There should be a Football holiday programme. Come on NZF 
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and you guys think I'M THE IDIOT !!!!!!!
You are an idiot. There is more than just one on here.
sometimes you hut my feelings.
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My neighbour is a local school teacher....he said all through playtime and lunch today,heaps of kids were out in the playground with footballs trying to do Eugene Dadi bicycle kicks. Thats what it means to have a local pro football team. These kids need football heroes....at the moment its overseas players like Dadi and Ifill. In time they will have more kiwi football heroes like leo and Smeltzy.
Has school started already??
Actually this whole arguement smacks of Auckland jealousy. The Phoenix have a success and following that the old Auckland based Knights and Kings could only dream of.
Summer camp shiite....anything to get the ankle biters out of the house!!!!!
Don't we all love school holidays when the weather is crap!!!!
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NZ football is on the rise for more than one reason.
One and I know people will not like this comment but Rufers Wyners has had a big impact. The players get sent to trials overseas, albeit not too regularly but more importantly they have been taught to use the ball and not hoof it as it was traditionally taught. This has seen a marked improvement in the technical ability of our younger players. Built, Wood, Rojas, Milne and the Blackburn boy etc have trained there and they are 5 of our hottest young prospects. Similar programmes are now trying to do similar things with good reason, it works!
Two, the Aussies leaving Oceania has allowed our young players opportunities they most likely would nt of had otherwise by playing in large age group tournaments.
Three, Wellington Phoenix. We have a professional to support that is run professionally and gives bac to the community. Whether enough players are kiwi or not I believe is irrelevant. I know my football heroes growing up weren't kiwis, but I still would have loved to play for the All Whites.
The game is on T.V. in the papers in our conversations. This can nt be underestimated. The fact we are now making the front page of sport is huge and almost unthinkable 10 years ago or even 5.
The All Whites and the world cup was a case of a good qualifying run, but to win we still had to beat tough Asian competition and against a team which has played together in highly professional and competitive tournaments more regularly together than we have for the past 27 years. In fact in Bahrain's only qualifying phase including friendlies in between, they probaly have played more than the all white has collectively in the last ten years!!. So yes, they missed easy chances, but that's football remember and we took ours.
Football in New Zealand needed results, we getting them. this will lead to more players / coaches and opportunities for our young players starting out.
Take a more holisitc view and you really should feel nothing but positive about our future direction as a footballing nation.
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I can sort of see Bluemagic's point, but consider it extremely short sighted and the kind of flawed thinking that has lurked in NZF and caused backwards decisions to be made in the past.
The basic premise is that Few Kiwis Playing for Phoenix = Bad.
This implies that the ONLY good thing the Phoenix can do is have NZers play for it. This is a laughably simplistic view. Would it be better for NZ football (note small 'f') if we had Ryan Nelsen and all our other European players here playing for the Phoenix? Obviously not.
So now we need to qualify which NZ players it would be 'good' to have playing for the Phoenix. Naming a few fringe players and claiming that they'd be up to the standard if they had the chance sure is easy to do when shouting from the sidelines, huh bluey?
So in the short term, three or four players might - and that's by no means definite - benefit, getting a bit of a hand up as opposed to genuinely earning a spot. Debatable whether that would be a good thing. I guess Ricki proved with Smeltz that players can do very well when given a suitable chance, but he obviously liked what he saw to get him so involved in the AWs. A precedent like that, and the skill I have seen from Costa, Rojas, and the thriving of non-NZ players like Muscat, Lia and Dura make me confident that Ricki knows how to pick them.
I'd prefer the NZ players did what they need to do to get picked, instead of getting the virtual charity that this thread asks for.
This whole argument also subscribes to the short-sighted view that the only thing the Phoenix can do for NZ football is directly train and play NZers. This overlooks the awareness the Phoenix has brought to NZ - the potential future talent that may be unearthed because kids have something like the Phoenix to look forward to has got to be worth a thousand times more to NZ football than playing three or four or ten more NZ players.
Those kids don't care that the players aren't NZ nationals.
14/11/09
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and you guys think I'M THE IDIOT !!!!!!!�Oh that was so cool and harsh. Not to pull an El-kun, but a bit of a fan Buff.
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It happens in every code. and to be frank its called professionalism. Look at the Warriors, how many kiwi's are playing in the 13. If your not good enough to make the cut then thats the breaks. Touch luck.
darkhorse2010-01-11 21:52:17
If there was any incentive for kiwi's to play hard and be noticed then its now (as World Cup looms) It wont happen over night. Patience is the key.
There are 7 kiwis on the roster, and three of them (not including siggy) is in the starting line up. Thats good enough for me,
Ok enough Dr Phill rubbish. Cant wait for Friday 
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I've been a loyal supporter of NZ football through thick and thin for 30 years. I've trudged to more than my fair share of muddy paddocks in the rain to watch local players kick lumps off each other. I was there during the depressing decline of the Kingz and the Knights. I turn out every home game for City, no matter what and if I was in Wellington you would have no more loyal a supporter for the Phoenix than I. So forgive me my cynicism because now I listen to so-called die-hard fans, who turn out once to the Cake Tin to see the All Whites nick one game, telling me how Herbert and the boys are going to take the World Cup by storm. Yes folks, I watch a lot of international football and a reality check is in store.
Anyway where are all these so called fans and their white t-shirts at other times? The Phoenix are doing no better at crowds than the Kingz did in their heyday, and you have a much more high profile league. I watched a Phoenix game several weeks ago and there wouldn't have been many more than 5,000 at the stadium. Get it wrong and your fans will evaporate as fast as El Tel's millions.
I'm only saying all this because I saw what happened when the Kingz abandoned local talent, fired Rufer and tried to buy success by hiring Peterson and a bunch of Australian players. The decline was agonizing to watch when the first two seasons of the Kingz was a joy because so many local players where getting a chance (we also finished mid table both times). Anyone who was there will tell you the Bloc 5 supporters under Ric La Roc's inspired leadership were as good as Yellow Fever at their best. So my point is - don't make the same mistake as the Kingz and think you can buy success with too much reliance on imports. Success comes from the roots up, with quality additions.
PS - Happy Ted was moved to tears by all your messages of goodwill.
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It takes more than a couple of seasons to create a football team. Some of the teams that we support in Europe have been around for a 100 years or more.
What the Nix has done has been magic and regardless of the foreign players we need to build this football culture.
I believe that we go have the young talent in NZ, all it takes it the good coaching from a young age-- this is where we might be struggling.
What the Nix has done has been magic and regardless of the foreign players we need to build this football culture.
I believe that we go have the young talent in NZ, all it takes it the good coaching from a young age-- this is where we might be struggling.
If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid
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A couple of things. Firstly there are some of us in Auckland who are pretty thrilled that Wellington has done such a great job of supporting the Phoenix and wish we had have done the same up here. We supported the Kingz when we were winning and the Phoenix worst crowd figures have never got anywhere near our worst.
Secondly even if we only end up with one Kiwi player getting regular game time for the Phoenix it will still be beneficial to the game here. The profile the Phoenix have is important, imagine if they didnt exist just how little press NZ football would get on TV. On top of that we have a coach who is getting to work in a fully professional enviroment and ultimately other NZ coaches will benefit from the passing on of some of that knowledge etc. I know i have already. As it is Costa and young Rojas have been given opportunities they wouldnt have got if the phoenix didnt exist.
We need the phoenix, we need its profile and we need that chance for the young players to progress.
BTW with respect to phoenix crowds, they have been in my opinion pretty good for a team that has been most of the time in the bottom third of the tables over the last couple of years. I bet they become really good when we finally make a playoffs.
Secondly even if we only end up with one Kiwi player getting regular game time for the Phoenix it will still be beneficial to the game here. The profile the Phoenix have is important, imagine if they didnt exist just how little press NZ football would get on TV. On top of that we have a coach who is getting to work in a fully professional enviroment and ultimately other NZ coaches will benefit from the passing on of some of that knowledge etc. I know i have already. As it is Costa and young Rojas have been given opportunities they wouldnt have got if the phoenix didnt exist.
We need the phoenix, we need its profile and we need that chance for the young players to progress.
BTW with respect to phoenix crowds, they have been in my opinion pretty good for a team that has been most of the time in the bottom third of the tables over the last couple of years. I bet they become really good when we finally make a playoffs.
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Wayward. The Phoenix lowest is 5k. I sat with 600 at NHS. No comparison.
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Who are these people he is talking about who are saying we are going to storm the World Cup?
Founder
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I was warned you are a touchy lot. I rest my case. Good luck on Friday.
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Wayward,
You turn up deliberately trolling and then whine that people are touchy when they respond.
What a waste of a man who used to be a poster-boy for media coverage of football that you have come down to half-arsed trolling of New Zealands biggest football site.
It is quite sad to see.
You turn up deliberately trolling and then whine that people are touchy when they respond.
What a waste of a man who used to be a poster-boy for media coverage of football that you have come down to half-arsed trolling of New Zealands biggest football site.
It is quite sad to see.
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Anyway where are all these so called fans and their white t-shirts at other times? The Phoenix are doing no better at crowds than the Kingz did in their heyday, and you have a much more high profile league. I watched a Phoenix game several weeks ago and there wouldn't have been many more than 5,000 at the stadium. Get it wrong and your fans will evaporate as fast as El Tel's millions.
You talk sh*t
Kingz/knights attendance
Season
Average
High
2006/2007
3,009 7,304
2005/2006
3,989 9,827
2003/2004
1,273 4,083
2002/2003
2,613 3,682
2001/2002
3,874 8,121
2000/2001
6,620 13,111
vs Nix
2007/2008 Ave=11,683, High =18,345
2008/2009 Ave= 7193, High = 10, 516
2009/2010 Ave = 7523, High = 10024
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Needs 99/00 and it should be noted that the largest two crowds (including 13,111) were here.
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Solution to this debate is simple.
Let the Phoenix have what every other A-League team has, a reserve team.
And the whole point to the HAND OF GOD STORY is that this situation would be a worst case scenario, Wellington Phoenix's existance is in the hands of the FFA and AFC and if we acept what they are offering us at the moment, that would be the case ( 3 Kiwis).
But we still have 2 years to get this sorted out, not to long ago the AFC wanted to BIN (hammen) us. So 3 kiwis are better than none ah.
Blue magic I believe your topic is valid and good on ya for having your say, but i think its quite clear that most people around here embrace everything positive about New Zealand Football and that includes Auckland City!
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and you guys think I'M THE IDIOT !!!!!!! Oh that was so cool and harsh. Not to pull an El-kun, but a bit of a fan Buff.
Makes my day that does
Three for me, and two for them.
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I was warned you are a touchy lot. I rest my case. Good luck on Friday.
Pity you weren't also warned that coming on and making half-arsed and shortisighted comments is likely to annoy people, even though I might point out that 90% of people have tried to respond to your arguments with decent and logical arguments of their own.
And you call people touchy... Bit rich, don't you think?
14/11/09
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Without the Phoenix, it is not inconceivable that:
- Smeltz remained a bit-part player in England, never becoming the player he is now
- Paston doesn't get much first-team football. Moss?
- Sigmund gets his chance to play at a higher level, as opposed to Canterbury United in the NZFC
- would NZF just held the Bahrain game at North Harbour Stadium (meh) and seen us lose????
The Phoenix have built nicely over their past three seasons, and having the team can only mean good things for NZ Football in the long run. Costa/Rojas etc are currently not good enough to be getting consistent first-team football.
I also get the feeling that the Phoenix are well-respected amongst the other A-League clubs, certainly unlike the NZ 'bye-week' Knights.
- Smeltz remained a bit-part player in England, never becoming the player he is now
- Paston doesn't get much first-team football. Moss?
- Sigmund gets his chance to play at a higher level, as opposed to Canterbury United in the NZFC
- would NZF just held the Bahrain game at North Harbour Stadium (meh) and seen us lose????
The Phoenix have built nicely over their past three seasons, and having the team can only mean good things for NZ Football in the long run. Costa/Rojas etc are currently not good enough to be getting consistent first-team football.
I also get the feeling that the Phoenix are well-respected amongst the other A-League clubs, certainly unlike the NZ 'bye-week' Knights.
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