Wellington Phoenix Men

Mark Paston

121 replies · 4,253 views
over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
nightz wrote:
DrQuack32 wrote:
I might be a fat ref, but any day you wanna run the Fifa international fitness test with me, let me know.

I think Feverish has said it all nightz

*flush*
 
How about today.
 
And I never said you were a fat ref, I dont even know you.
 
Fact 2: Refs have trouble seeing things that everybody else can see.


Today? Sure. I've got sub football at  6:40, but I can make it to Jack Lovelock track for half 7 and thats after doing the half marathon yesterday.

Referees have trouble seeing things others can see because sometimes on different angles of view, you see something different. I've seen many a game were a player has gone down and was 'supposedly fouled' but the ref hasn't given it, only on a different camera view, the player dived. Bear that in mind before spouting 'facts'
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
nightz wrote:
Fact 2: Refs have trouble seeing things that everybody else can see.

Fact: You have a hard time seeing something eveyone else can re: Moss > PastonDrQuack322007-10-29 16:50:03
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
[/QUOTE]
yeah your right.  I thought Christie was our answer at right back but he was playing way to narrow (probably trying to help cover the 2 centre backs).  They were pouring down the flanks and getting the ball in the box where mistakes were inevitable.  The 2 centre backs were caught ball watching to often and not marking the runners.  Paston may have great management skills but you also need a centre back with equally good skills to organise the backs around him.  We dont have this yet.
[/QUOTE]
 
Its a shame when the "supposed" best centre back we have, cannot communicate with the keeper due to language difficulties. If moss had confidence in Clebo we'd be in a way better position. Its totally the keeper and centrebacks job to run the defensive side of the game. Perhaps Portugese lessons should be part of training!!!

Queenslander 3x a year.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
theprof wrote:
[/QUOTE]
yeah your right.  I thought Christie was our answer at right back but he was playing way to narrow (probably trying to help cover the 2 centre backs).  They were pouring down the flanks and getting the ball in the box where mistakes were inevitable.  The 2 centre backs were caught ball watching to often and not marking the runners.  Paston may have great management skills but you also need a centre back with equally good skills to organise the backs around him.  We dont have this yet.
[/QUOTE]
 
Its a shame when the "supposed" best centre back we have, cannot communicate with the keeper due to language difficulties. If moss had confidence in Clebo we'd be in a way better position. Its totally the keeper and centrebacks job to run the defensive side of the game. Perhaps Portugese lessons should be part of training!!!
 
Is this an actual issue here? Does Clebo actually not have a clue what the English speaking players are saying/meaning?  With football in this day an age there must be ways around it. How do 99% of the teams in Europe manage the language problem? I thought when Clebs last played he looked positionally out of sorts and just knackered/or could not be arsed, more that than a communication thing with his teammates.
ForteanTimes2007-10-29 17:03:49

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ForteanTimes wrote:
 
Is this an actual issue here? Does Clebo actually not have a clue what the English speaking players are saying/meaning?  With football in this day an age there must be ways around it. How do 99% of the teams in Europe manage the language problem? I thought when Clebs last played he looked positionally out of sorts and just knackered/or could not be arsed, more that than a communication thing with his teammates.


Quote from stuff.co.nz article talking to RH:

The only dud Herbert recruited for the Nix's inaugural season is the Brazilian centreback Cleberson.

He's failed to impress in any of his three appearances, something the coach puts down to "communication difficulties".

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Except that he arrived with a better grasp of English than any of the others and he constantly chats with anyone and everyone...

...maybe it's more to do with the other half of communicating and not the speech ?

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Blimey then thats something they need to fix then.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
yea clebos performance are a concern, especially given he is a footballer with a pedigree, but has looked out of place in that back four. Not too sure what needs to be done about his performances, but needs to be sorted asap
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
nightz wrote:
Glad to see others are'nt wanting to drop him on 1 performance.
 
he shouldn't have even been in the team mate! Moss has been sensational all season & prevented numerous saves, which by the look of it Paston wouldn't have even attempted to stop
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
nightz wrote:
Feverish wrote:
nightz wrote:
[.[/QUOTE]
You've been telling us that Paston was a better organiser than Moss. Regardless of missing just 1 player in the regular back 4, they looked a hell of a lot more disorganised than previous weeks.
[/QUOTE]
 
Quaker, find were Ive said that, you cant cause I dont ever recall posting that, others have though.
 
Pull your head in and get your facts right before you go having pot shots at people.  Heres one fact for you to start with, fat refs cant keep up with the play.
 
you did actually - you agreed with someone a while back during your Paston rants
 
to the below you replied in italics.......
 
agreed - please let's give Paston a try; there really is more to goalkeeping at that level than being able to make good saves; it should include organising and marshalling the defence.
 
Totally agreed, but than Ive been saying that for weeks now and keep getting shot down
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Paston showed how much of a better organiser he is over Moss.....that is why we conceeded 4 goals in the match compared to the average of 2 goals when Moss has played over the past 3 weeks...work that one out.......can we have a banstick for muppets who just dont seem to make any sense 
What are you on Feverish?  It dosent say anything there about Paston being a good organiser.  
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
nightz wrote:
wingback4eva wrote:
How many were Theoklitos' fault...? Paston has played one game and was clearly at fault for 2 of the goals. Moss has played 9 games and I can't think of a goal that was directly his fault.
 
 
Says alot for your thought patterns than. Maybe you should rewatch the games and come back and edit that post.
 
you didn't and still havent come up with a single example nightzzz (but I guess that's been the case with most of your views)

Founder

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

i suspect Nightz and Paston are romantically entangled
I like tautologies because I like them.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
nightz wrote:
Feverish wrote:
nightz wrote:
[.[/QUOTE]
You've been telling us that Paston was a better organiser than Moss. Regardless of missing just 1 player in the regular back 4, they looked a hell of a lot more disorganised than previous weeks.
[/QUOTE]
 
Quaker, find were Ive said that, you cant cause I dont ever recall posting that, others have though.
 
Pull your head in and get your facts right before you go having pot shots at people.  Heres one fact for you to start with, fat refs cant keep up with the play.
 
you did actually - you agreed with someone a while back during your Paston rants
 
to the below you replied in italics.......
 
agreed - please let's give Paston a try; there really is more to goalkeeping at that level than being able to make good saves; it should include organising and marshalling the defence.
 
Totally agreed, but than Ive been saying that for weeks now and keep getting shot down
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
What are you on Feverish?  It dosent say anything there about Paston being a good organiser.  
 
well you said you totally agree with him. That means you agree with everything he said!

Founder

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
History lesson:
 
Both players played for Knights:
 
Moss was brought in as reserve but due to injury picked up starting sport and was brilliant (and is still young).
 
Paston came in season two:  Had been good in UK but was suffering from injury. He suffered from injury at Knights too but wasn't anything special, more like his form at Napier.
 
All in all, Moss is the better keeper but is still young and lacking in experience and probably doesn't communicate as well as he should as a keeper.  Whereas Paston is experienced and normally controls the defence well but has a tendency to do Utting/Seaman/James sorts of errors when under pressure.
 
Ricki wanted a strong leader in defence at Adelaide as the defence is all very young (with Locheed being the oldest but even then only 25 (I think) on sunday).  Thus with Dodd, our best defender out he decided that another defensive general was required (Paston).  Clearly this has not worked and in the end with Dodd back Moss is clearly the better choice for custodian.
 
Final point: A strong, experienced defender in the Bunce or Tambouras (or Nelsen) mold is needed at the back.  Knights had that last season which helped Ricki get results, but he doesn't this term and he can only blame himself.
disco_mart2007-10-29 23:16:37
Supporter world's best and worst football teams: Waikato/WaiBop, Kingz, Knights, Phoenix, The Argyle, The Whites & the All Whites

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I was one in the camp saying that Paston should get a go in goal before this game, and the bits that I did see (first 40 min) he did look reasonably solid and pulled off a couple of good saves.  I really don't know what went wrong in the back row after I stopped watching but I was looking for him to keep a clean sheet by organising his defense - yet 4 goals past him show something went wrong.

One thing I have to say about Adelaide, every single cross/corner/free kick they seemed able to get ball to one of their attackers heads, even when they over-ran the cross they were able to sorta lean back and get something on it - and it meant they looked constantly threatening.  Whether this was good play on their side or poor defense or both, it was something worrying since finding heads is something we're having trouble with of late.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I feel for you Mark. Having watched them goals again, you were unlucky with two at least. Chin up and I hope you bounce back. Still you're living the dream, something I'd love to have done!
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feverish wrote:
nightz wrote:
Feverish wrote:
nightz wrote:
[.[/QUOTE]
You've been telling us that Paston was a better organiser than Moss. Regardless of missing just 1 player in the regular back 4, they looked a hell of a lot more disorganised than previous weeks.
[/QUOTE]
 
Quaker, find were Ive said that, you cant cause I dont ever recall posting that, others have though.
 
Pull your head in and get your facts right before you go having pot shots at people.  Heres one fact for you to start with, fat refs cant keep up with the play.
 
you did actually - you agreed with someone a while back during your Paston rants
 
to the below you replied in italics.......
 
agreed - please let's give Paston a try; there really is more to goalkeeping at that level than being able to make good saves; it should include organising and marshalling the defence.
 
Totally agreed, but than Ive been saying that for weeks now and keep getting shot down
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
What are you on Feverish?  It dosent say anything there about Paston being a good organiser.  
 
well you said you totally agree with him. That means you agree with everything he said!
 
There have been plently of examples already given. Go back and read the Moss or Paston posts plus the game posts.
These guys all suggested Paston be given a chance.
Browner
Valeo
deang
spurred
nickel
sammyd
OiOi
12th Man
 
Come on lads were are you now.
nightz2007-10-30 09:34:22

A dog with a bone :)

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I've been quiet on this, but I also suggested Paston come in for Moss after Mossy's last game.
 
At the time I thought Moss had failed to direct his defence sufficiently and done poorly with two goals in the game against CCM.
 
I thought this was the chance for Ricki to drop Moss and give Paston a shot and low-and-behold that's exactly what he did.
 
Paston blew his chance though.
 
I've seen Pasty play over a number of years, and he is a good keeper.  That was a poor display against Adelaide, but he is capable of much better.
 
Ricki may well give him a chance to redeem himself this week, but if he does then Paston is lucky and it will be a make or break game for him.  If he plays against Perth and plays badly I'll be surprised if he plays again.  His All Whites slot must also be on the line.
 
For me, I'd put Moss back in.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think it would be very harsh to drop Pastie for this weekends game.  I know he didn't have the best of games last weekend but he was playing against the best attacking team we've faced and behind a very poorly performing back line.  As I said in a previous post we were lucky that the score wasn't 3 or 4 more.  We were outclassed all over the park, it wasn't just Pastie at fault. 
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I agree with those that think that Paston has been treated a bit unfairly. It was the defence that let him down and he should be given at least one more chance.
What better way to back that up than to find some (arguably indicative) statistics...
 
Over the season, Moss and his defence have had to contend with 48 shots on target, with 16 being let through. That's 33%. It took him a couple of games to settle down too. In game 1 he let in 2/3 (67%) and game 2 he let in 3/5 (60%)
 
Those first two games are a lot worse than Paston's 4 goals from 10 shots on target (40%)
 
Give him time to prove himself.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
patel wrote:
I agree with those that think that Paston has been treated a bit unfairly. It was the defence that let him down and he should be given at least one more chance.
What better way to back that up than to find some (arguably indicative) statistics...
 
Over the season, Moss and his defence have had to contend with 48 shots on target, with 16 being let through. That's 33%. It took him a couple of games to settle down too. In game 1 he let in 2/3 (67%) and game 2 he let in 3/5 (60%)
 
Those first two games are a lot worse than Paston's 4 goals from 10 shots on target (40%)
 
Give him time to prove himself.


Nice work.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
We don't have time for an out of form goalie to prove himself. The club needs a win this weekend to keep the teams heads up; if this means going back to Moss then so be it. I would use the old adage "if it isn't something that is not broken then do not attempt to fix it"
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
mrmegamowman wrote:
We don't have time for an out of form goalie to prove himself. The club needs a win this weekend to keep the teams heads up; if this means going back to Moss then so be it. I would use the old adage "if it isn't something that is not broken then do not attempt to fix it"


So if it is broken, do not attempt to fix it? That's an interesting one.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Well my typing is broken, maybe I should fix that first
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
the thing that was *broken* has been attempted to be fix, and did worse than the thing that was supposedly *broken*. end
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
somehow i don't really think its the keepers that are broken, maybe a little damaged or worse for wear after the beating they've had at the hands at ouer very fragile defense.
*sigh*

Queenslander 3x a year.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Certainly thought Paston had to come in for that game as Moss was pretty shakey in the previous game. Paston didn't have the best of games but pretty difficult coming in with such a shakey defence - it would be silly to drop him for the game against Perth. 
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
patel wrote:
I agree with those that think that Paston has been treated a bit unfairly. It was the defence that let him down and he should be given at least one more chance.
What better way to back that up than to find some (arguably indicative) statistics...
 
Over the season, Moss and his defence have had to contend with 48 shots on target, with 16 being let through. That's 33%. It took him a couple of games to settle down too. In game 1 he let in 2/3 (67%) and game 2 he let in 3/5 (60%)
 
Those first two games are a lot worse than Paston's 4 goals from 10 shots on target (40%)
 
Give him time to prove himself.
 
How has Paston been unfairly treated? He's not a 5 year old kid, hes a professional soccer/football player.
I think Paston is a good keeper, but he got injured, Moss took over, and Moss took his chance and played well. How is that unfair.
This is not the only game the keeper has been let down in, every game this season we've looked terrible at the back.
 
Nice work with the stats but heres another one;
Paston - Gift wrapped a goal for Nathan Burns in 100% of the games he's played.
Moss - Gift wrapped a goal for Nathan Burns/anyone in the 9 games he's played. 0%.
 
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
say we keep paston in and we get beat again this week, we will be stuick at bottom of the a-league and its gonna be hard to clumb that ladder! drop paston and bring in Moss!!
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
by the way, whilst I thought Pastie had a bad game, I am not saying his a bad keeper as he most defnietly isn't. I just thought there was no reason to insert him into the team at this stage.

Founder

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
In response to nightz, yeh I was pushing for Paston, yeh I acknowledge he didn't have a good game. He did get off his line better than Moss which has been a weak point. They're all suffering from lack of confidence at the back.
Dunno who Ricki will pick this weekend. We need a Brad Freidel type keeper.

Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feverish wrote:
by the way, whilst I thought Pastie had a bad game, I am not saying his a bad keeper as he most defnietly isn't. I just thought there was no reason to insert him into the team at this stage.
 
well spoken fevs Moss has bleed for the team....what has Paston done
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feverish wrote:
by the way, whilst I thought Pastie had a bad game, I am not saying his a bad keeper as he most defnietly isn't. I just thought there was no reason to insert him into the team at this stage.
 
True, but other than Smeltz did anyone have a good game??
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Lonegunmen wrote:
Feverish wrote:
by the way, whilst I thought Pastie had a bad game, I am not saying his a bad keeper as he most defnietly isn't. I just thought there was no reason to insert him into the team at this stage.
 
True, but other than Smeltz did anyone have a good game??
 
No. But might be a bity tough changing eleven players

Founder

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Have we got that many available and fit?? Lonegunmen2007-11-01 15:31:00
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
MESSIAH wrote:
Feverish wrote:
by the way, whilst I thought Pastie had a bad game, I am not saying his a bad keeper as he most defnietly isn't. I just thought there was no reason to insert him into the team at this stage.
 
well spoken fevs Moss has bleed for the team....what has Paston done
 
Just bled... goals!
Supporter world's best and worst football teams: Waikato/WaiBop, Kingz, Knights, Phoenix, The Argyle, The Whites & the All Whites

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
bring back moss... what's with your tag? worlds worst football teams....phoenix???
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
"Supporter of the underdog" would be more cheery.
Like a chocoholic but for booze

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Moss will rise from the ashs once again!! he will be selected this week.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
very brave of you considering paston is injured...
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