Melbourne vs Phoenix - Match thread

Melbourne vs Phoenix - Match thread

Well we can draw a few conclusions from the draw with Adelaide and hope that Ricki takes them into account for the Melbourne game.

1) Bertos needs to play wide.

Leo looked pretty lost in the rough and tumble in the centre of the pitch and as he's been our most effective playe before last night, needs a switch back to the wing. To be fair to him, his range of passing isn't great and his main weapon is the ability to beat a man, so he's far more winger than play maker in my book.

2) Daniel is worth his place.

Though he, like the rest of the side, faded a little in the second half (which I suppose in his case could be the effect of a lack of 90mins for a long time) Daniel did show that when he's in the mood he can still be a big player for us. He has more creativity than anyone else in the side and gives us more options in the attacking third, where we are otherwise a tad predictable. Will be interesting to see how Caceres turns out though.

3) Ifill is brilliant.

Seriously think this guy is one of the league's best players and he'll be key to everything we do. Last night he had the wider role but I think that as Bertos needs a flank and Daniel is best used wide to utilise his crossing (and ensure that he doesn't have to try to use his right foot) so Ifill should be deployed more centrally. Would like to see him playing just off Greenacre with plenty of freedom to roam, pushing forward to a top two when the ball is wide but also dropping deep to link up - a bit like Rooney does sometimes.

4) The defence did OK.

While Siggy didn't provide too much going forward, he did show a couple of signs that he could and I think overall it was a good defensive performance with only one major lapse - the corner they scored from. Thus if I were Ricki I'd stick with it for the next match.

5) A touch more creativity in the middle would be nice.

Lia and Brown did a good job of making us combative in the middle of the park but I think few A-League sides will be quite as physical as Adelaide last night and it may be worthwhile giving Diego a try in there. He was terrible against Syndey but had looked good until then and he played well as a holding midfielder for Adelaide. Toss up between Lia and Brown to drop out - Brown got in good attacking positions but fluffed his lines while Lia was really solid. Thus I'd keep Lia to give Diego more license to get forward like Brown does, but hopefully with more success.

Thus, against Melbourne:

------------------Paston--------------------
Sigmund-Durante-McKain-Lochead
----------------Lia----Diego----------------
Bertos------------Ifill--------------Daniel
----------------Greenacre------------------

On the bench:
Crowther, a given.
Costa/Chen, we need some striking options.
Caceres/Hearfield, to add spark if it's not happening.
Muscat, as defensive cover (though if Troy is on the bench, he and Lia could cover that giving us room for Brown/Ferrante/Magic Marco).

That's my take on things anyway. Your thoughts?

Why would you play Diego when he was horrible last week and its accepted he was ordinary the week before that?
Why are you playing a 4-5-1 which is generally more negative that a 4-4-2
Why would you leave Sigmund out on the right when it makes more sense to bring Manny back in and put Sigmund in his best position and move McKain into his best position.


------------------Paston--------------------
Muscat-Durante-Sigmund-Lochead
------------McKain----??????---------------
Bertos------------------------------Daniel
-------Greenacre--------Ifill--------------

The ????? is the question mark and the real hole/weakness in our team because we know Brown and McKain don't play well (for the team creativity) there, Ferrante has been ordinary in his chances, Lia is not a creative player, Diego is out of form. I'd probably give it to Lia but only because he is the best solution we have (Caceres noted but also isn't he an attacking midfielder?)

This team really does lack a box to box midfielder who can create, and its shown since R Aloisi laced up his boots for the club. He is exactly the type player we need in that position. Gets forward, tackles hard, creates and defends. Unfortunately they are hard to come by because they are all locked in contracts. An abundance of attacking midfielders, a couple of good defensive midfielders (who can't play together) but nothing that does bits of both.

Ricki has already stated that Rojas will be on the bench soon so you assume he gets one, Hearfield adds energy and versatility, the 3rd one take your pick

Players shouldn't be considered because of form/previous history: Mulligan, Ferrante, Diego

Jeff Vader2009-09-05 09:19:27

In answer to your questions:

I would leave the defence as it is because they played well and because in fairness to Manny, he's had a pretty average start to the season and hasn't played very well.

McKain's best position is contentious, I think he's much more of a centre half than a defensive midfielder and I think he plays in midfield because at the start of last season he and Durante didn't gel as a partnership so Herbert tried pushing him forward and it worked. He and Durante looked good together yesterday though despite a very physical workout from Owusu and Cristiano.

It looks like a 4-5-1 but as I said in my earlier points, Ifill would be encouraged to get forward and join Greenacre up front when the ball goes out wide, making it effectively a 4-4-2 but because Ifill also has the work-rate and ability to be able to drop back and link the midfield and attack he should be encouraged to do so, because otherwise we'd just resort to the dreaded long ball too easily, if they were both playing out and out attack. This means that the 4-5-1/4-4-2 gives us more attacking versatility and should make us more dangerous. So in a way you could see it more as:

------------------Paston--------------------
Sigmund-Durante-McKain-Lochead
----------------Lia----Diego----------------
Bertos------------------------------Daniel
---------------------------Ifill-----------------
-----------Greenacre-----------------------

And you've explained why I'd play Diego yourself. Lia does pretty much the job that McKain does at DM, and you've highlighted that we need a box-to-box midfielder that we don't have. Lacking that, I'd try Diego there. He had a shocker against Sydney, I acknowledged that in my first post but he was playing predominantly out wide and he certainly doesn't look like a winger to me. Drop him into the middle there and he may well find his niche because from what we saw against Perth and in glimpses against Brisbane he has got the ability to be a good ball playing midfielder.
EvertonFC2009-09-05 09:46:38

Diego is not the option, every game he has looked unwilling to play....Brown did really well given he's just come back from injury, sure he missed a few chances but give the guy time to get back into the swing of things, besides that I'd start with the same line up, drop Diego completly and bring Caceras onto the bench

------------------Paston--------------------
Muscat-Durante-Sigmund-Lochead
------------McKain----Lia---------------
Bertos------------------------------Daniel
-------Greenacre--------Ifill--------------

Why not Lia at R.B (ricki was going to play him there last season) and move Mckain into DCM bringing Siggie back to the cb role 

I definietly don't want to hear Diegos name for a while tbh. Now we know why Adelaide so freely dropped him.

OK i agree with most. Bertos is better wider so a 442 and I would have to say the only debatable positions are:

RB = Siggy vs Muscat? possibly vs Hearfield? but wouldn't start him there.
CB = two of Durante, McKain or Sigmund?
CM / DM = Brown, McKain?   Lia is a given now so I don't know.


I would be inclined to play the same squad as this week just in a 442. And I'm not sure Mckain's best position is DM? I think he hasn't played to his best at all this season and our defense was pretty solid this week!
Also, Brown does almost the same job as McKain and has the same ball distribution skills (or lack of) as McKain. Except Brown can get into the box and score and is a much fitter player than McKain. So makes for a better CM in my books.

McKain is definitely a start. So I would be inclined to play a 442 with the same squad as Adelaide.
Or 442 with Lia and McKain in the middle to see how they pair. And Muscat on the RB. To me, these are our two only options. I don't want too much more experiments when we have seen the majority of our squad now.

All that is left is to look at the bench and that is hard. Would say Caceres should be given a bench spot. However, Ricki has said he hopes to play Rojas too. So the three spots are really up in the air for me?
Muscat? Brown? Caceres, Rojas, Hearfield, Chen? Ferrante? probably others too.

I'm hoping for the same lineup as last game so a bench of perhaps Hearfield, Caceres and Chen/ Rojas
But all these players are attackive players.
Although you have Lia/ Hearfield to cover RB so muscat isn't needed.

Interesting

What about Caceres if he's fit?

I'm less worried about the formation and more worried about the mindset when we go to Melbourne.

He can take D*egos's place on the bench and prove himself to be worthy of a start as Lia and Daniel did

Please DO NOT play 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1 - it will not work.

I agree. When we play more attackive we take a lot of the pressure off our defense. And it makes the fullbacks jobs a lot less stressful when they are deciding whether to risk pushing up the field.

I want the same formation as this past game, or a 442

I thought the side v Adelaide deserve another run.  But there are a few good arguable positions.

Central midfield - Diego has been so b awful but if Ricki found the secret to motivating him then you'd think about him getting a run.  Don't in any way feel positive about that but Ricki's the man on the spot making the hard calls and otherwise Diego's a dead poor/sulky/lazy signing instead of providing us with something where it's needed.  Would love to think Brown could do it but he's not exactly shown growing attacking creativity over the last two seasons.  He'll do a job though and maybe we can bolster that CAM area some more as below?

Wide/Striking - give us Bertos back on the wing please please please and Daniel deserves another run there.  If Ifill and Bertos can do the "all over the show" attack, great, but if Ifill could get more central and forward with Bertos primarily wide then that is the best fit for the team IMHO - with our CAM/striker support needing strenthening and bertos clearly better running in space and crossing. OK that may not be where Ifill would like to be, but if you want both Bertos and Ifill playing wider then there's no-one that fits the role of helping CAM/striker.
(Alternatively I would be happy with Chen up front with Greenacre, and Ifill in Browns spot, but I know there are plenty who think that's nuts.  I'd just like to see how Ifill would go there.  No-one else seems capable of being commanding on the ball and a serious attacking threat in that role, though brown is solid enough.  But i agree it's not going to happen and the attack has been threatening and a shame to break up too much albeit with that bit of missing CAM capability.  So give a more central/forward Ifill a go to help that out instead please.)  Perhaps we are just waiting for Fred.

Defensive - Manny back?  Possibly.  I'm not convinced Durrante and McKain's past weaknesses as a pair got a real test from Adelaide missing Dodd and co.  Melbourne may.   If we stay with the back four for Adelaide obviously we get Lia on in midfield instead of McKain, which I'd be happy with.  Tough call there.  Possibly Lia at RB, McKain to DM.  Otherwise Manny back.

Subs.  possibly strengthened with either Rojas (if fit) or Caceres for the attacking end.  I'd like to see Chen on the bench, if we don't play two strikers, but i doubt Ricki will go that far for an away game.  If Lia starts in mid then he covers the back four, and it's midfield cover we need, otherwise he or Manny on the bench/starting RB between them.  CAM midfield/strikercover would be who?  Same old issue, so we'll get Ferrante or Diego. 
So - Caceres/Hearfield/Rojas, Lia/Manny (if Lia does not start at mid), Diego/Ferrante plus if Lia starts at mid then one other DM cover.  When you look at the bench selection it's absolutely clear where it's hard to add strong cover, as we all know.  CAM.  Please buy.

And I agree absolutely, play the same away as at home.
mjp22009-09-05 14:01:47

-----------------Paston--------------------
Muscat-Durante-Sigmund-Lochy
------------McKain/Brown/Lia-------------------
Bertos------------------------------Daniel
------------ --Caceres-------------------
-------Greenacre--------Ifill--------------

If Caceres is fit obviously.

I don't think we should throw Caceres in to the line up yet. Think we make him earn it like Daniel and Lia did. Would just play McKain / Brown combo in the middle. And would like to see Lia given a shot at RB. Know it wont happen though. So its gonna be a tough call to drop 1 of Muscat/ Lia/ Brown/ McKain.

I agree with this 100% except I would have McKain starting outright. My bench would be:

Crowther
Lia/Brown
Hearfield/Marco
Chen/Costa

Can't wait for this one, my first away trip. Siggy isn't a right back and needs to come back to the centre, and although Lia has been used mostly as a DM so far this year he gets forward very well and was sometimes used as a winger in season 1. So I would partner him and McKain in the middle and rely on Daniel and Bertos to provide creativity out wide. I like the Idea of Ifill dropping back to find space and provide a link, so we keep the ball on the deck more and joining Greenacre up front when it's coming down the flanks, with Lia, Muscat and Lochhead supporting the wingers.

When picking the line-up for the Tards game only players who are 100% fit should be considered - I do not want to hear any post match excuses about players being jet lagged or tired after the All Whites trip. We have enough depth in the squad that if any of Brown, Bertos (god forbid Leo is not 100%), Sigmund or Lochhead are not up to it they should not be considered.

At the risk of being stoned- I thought Brown proved his worth. He is tough on defence and gets himself into scoring positions in the box. He didn't make these chances...but he did a lot better than Ferrante there...I think he has to play, or at least be given a chance to further redeem himself.

And would love to see hearfield in the mix...has he got enough to be right back?

I could also see a three up front with Ifill, Bertos and Hearfield...more movement like Smeltz, Bertos and Hearfield last year...

Muscat will have dealt with a lengthy international trip as well. Daniel, Hearfield or Ferrante at fullback .

I think we need Ifill more up front, not out wide. We need to stick to a proper 4-4-2 and have Chen on the bench.

Carry Brown or Lia to cover the defence/midfield positions possibly, but show intent with a 4-4-2 and a striker on the bench.

Greenacre is usually covered well, so we need the opposition defences to split amongst our two professionals. Their experience between them will open up goals.Ard Righ2009-09-05 22:30:30

I reckon Ifill drifts wide naturally anyway

Im firmly of the view that most of returning "All Whites" and Manny should be on the bench only..if at all.  Crowther in goal for Paston..Siggy maybe on, Brown rested.  Use some of rest of the squad..I will only be one point dropped if it doenst work..we dropped two on Friday with ease.

I like the idea of playing the squad who have worked towards it and they should be rewarded this week. Wouldn't mind Bertos, Lochhead and Siggy back in this week but it would be nice to promote Crowther, Costa and Rojas.

Keep McKain at CB. He looked comfortable

                  ------- Paston -------- newzealandpower2009-09-06 09:46:23

                                  Paston
Hearfield              Dura                McKain                  Lochhead

Caceres                        Lia                                  Daniel

                                        Bertos
            Ifill                                               G-ACRE

Bench:
C-rowther
Siggy
Costa/Chen
Brown

This is whatI would like to see but I realise there is a 1 in a 100 chance of it happening

                Crowther

I think McKain and Lia have to start.

A full back in Brazil is more or less a winger who is deployed from further back, Daniel made a few decent tackles on Friday but he would get slaughtered as a defender in the A-League. I imagine he often played more defensively in Brazil because he doesn't have a lot of pace.

True, perhaps swap him for Caceres or Daniel?

Are caceres and Chen in the mix for the melbourne game

                    Paston
Muscat   Mckain   Durante   Lochy

Hearfield   Lia      Caceres   Daniel    

                Ifill       Acres

Subs:
Crowther
Siggy
Bertos
Chen

It's gonna be a long week for the kiwis this week, I feel Ricki will play Caceres due to the creativity  he can bring. Costa/Rojas will be unlucky not to make the bench this week.

Don't know how bad Marco's calf strain is, but I would suggest he's unlikely to be available.

I'd have a heart-attack if Hearfield started at RB for start, Muscat and Lochhead are our two best options at fullback so best to play them there with Dura and Siggy in the middle and then McKain sheilding the back four and providing a link to the attacking midfield, which is where the big competition is.

Personally I think Manny Muscat has been relatively poor in getting up the field in the fullback role. Would be glad to see Hearfield given a shot if he is ready.

In his defense, to get up field he needs someone in the mid-field to retain possession long enough to make those run.  And for the first few games that wasn't exactly our strong point.