Hail ___ the Chief - Giancarlo Italiano

martinb

AucklandPhoenix

Just to put things into some perspective when people are talking about $ and the quality of the squad that AFC assembled.

I was listening to an old NZ podcast today - studs up. It was just before the A league started and I was interested in how at that time AFC and the Nixes seasons were going to be perceived.

They talked about the betting odds for the winners of the league. Now betting guys don’t always get things right but they will do everything they can to evaluate and analyse as obviously they could lose a truck load of dosh if they fudge it up.

Obviously no one saw AFC coming based upon the quality of the squad they had assembled.

The odds of AFC winning were 15- 1.

AFC were not even favourites to win their first home game of the season against the Roar. 

The Nix odds were 8-1.

There had to be a point when they started recruiting Hall, Brimmer, Sakai, Paulsen, de Vries, Smith, Elliot, Hay, (as an assistant so had to be good money), Corica etc where they had to start looking good to the bookies. 

The surprise surely has to be how productive de Vries, Rogerson and to a lesser degree, but still handy in a considering their very parsimonious defense, Mata have been. 

But compared to the league they’ve been able to give a few youth players experience, rather than playing youth because the disbursement meant they couldn’t afford anyone else. Their backups were and are established pros and that difference should have been clear early.

I think that stat says more about how honking we’ve been coming off our best ever season results wise. Auckland might have had trouble binding it together, but the Nix should be in the mix after second is how I’d read those results.

also not knowing how effective foreign players will be

Marto

coochiee

From Chiefy's post match chat tonight with the Parmount crew, sounds very much like he'll be getting a new deal announced this coming week.

I hope not.

We've been woeful this season and for all the highs of last season we still have absolutely nothing to show for it. Chiefy and the team bottled it when it mattered last year and HIS team this year has been dire since late '24.

AFC will likely have it's first trophy in a couple of weeks whereas for us it's been 18 odd years of pain and suffering.

If we use metrics, his team sucking and AFC dominating means the Nix will have permanently lost a significant proportion of its fan base. The Nix needed to excel this season to prevent haemorrhaging fans but we've been so bad, the club has actually helped AFC accrue more of them then it should have.

there's a good chance afc finish with less points than we accumulated last season - will need to win all 3 remaining games or 7 points to equal (reporting from rnz suggests afc also spending twice as much as the Nix on their alm team)

That’s just David Dumb Dumb, spreading false rumours, to justify how bad he is doing, 

Nothing more nothing less 

Singh’s wage demands were rejected and he went to a second division club in Portugal

Hardly illustrative of a club aggressively spending double the Nix’s salary level. 

As much as we may not like some of the backers behind the club (with good reason in some cases), they haven’t got where they are today by paying inflated wages to their employees 

martinb

Yeh- that’s the point about money and squad depth imo. They rest their players constantly. Moreno comes off the bench. Cam Elliot comes off the bench. Brimmer, Howieson, and a whole bunch of players are able to rotate in and out and take pressure off the first team. Tommy Smith replaces Dan Hall. Verstaete has had a period of not starting. 

They don’t have to push Rufer, Payne and Kosta the way we do because they have depth in the squad. And that’s their money talking I think.

But also I’m a bit suspicious of the data too. Auckland have had some injuries as well. 

I mean we had Rufer out and we had no midfielder capable of running box to box. That’s an effect from one player Auckland don’t have. 

it was the easiest way to compare (not checking every match squad) at the time, I last checked it was 25 to 87 weeks missed incl. Hall for Afc.  When you're missing some of your more senior/experienced/talented players for large parts of the season you can't rotate or have depth on the bench or develop cohesion, or even have the intensity and quality at trainings. 

AucklandPhoenix

That’s just David Dumb Dumb, spreading false rumours, to justify how bad he is doing, 

Nothing more nothing less 

they were also talking to mcflynn about the dispensations new teams get in the cap and how they're using them.

I don’t care about other clubs , nothing of the AuFC $pending has to do with our performance. We had games with endless back passing and 0 shot on goal, this can happen, but we had to watch it for to many games. And yes we had some injuries. We underperformed big time and nobody was able to adjust. Look at the game yesterday, could you see a season of learning and improvements?

Just dire if the coach gets re-appointed based on this season's performances, let's be real.

The wildest part is the fact people are like he has had a great last season so therefore he gets a pass. The whole of last season was a dire style of play, we won nothing and couldn't even get to the Grand final. Just think about the players he had last season, we could have played differently we could have won.

There is a reason Auckland got silverware and we never have and it's the mentality of the claim to be home to just maintain and target places 2-6.  Auckland are hungry.

They didn’t renew Paul Temple’s contract and he had been 10 years at the club. Based on that you’d think they would be brutal with Chiefy.

I would have thought that the 3k attendance last match would have worried the higher ups.

Bullion

Marto

coochiee

From Chiefy's post match chat tonight with the Parmount crew, sounds very much like he'll be getting a new deal announced this coming week.

I hope not.

We've been woeful this season and for all the highs of last season we still have absolutely nothing to show for it. Chiefy and the team bottled it when it mattered last year and HIS team this year has been dire since late '24.

AFC will likely have it's first trophy in a couple of weeks whereas for us it's been 18 odd years of pain and suffering.

If we use metrics, his team sucking and AFC dominating means the Nix will have permanently lost a significant proportion of its fan base. The Nix needed to excel this season to prevent haemorrhaging fans but we've been so bad, the club has actually helped AFC accrue more of them then it should have.

there's a good chance afc finish with less points than we accumulated last season - will need to win all 3 remaining games or 7 points to equal (reporting from rnz suggests afc also spending twice as much as the Nix on their alm team)

Maybe but the only team challenging us for a trophy-less cabinet is Tottenham but even then they won stuff wayyy back in the day.

18ish years for absolutely nothing is shark in anyone's eyes. 

Every other side I support has won something in that time, whether that team plays football, rugby or cricket.

Clearly asking the wrong questions. 
The question we need to ask is how can we stitch up things to suit us the way the Test Championship did?

Napier Phoenix

They didn’t renew Paul Temple’s contract and he had been 10 years at the club. Based on that you’d think they would be brutal with Chiefy.

Italiano has been at the club coming up 6 years. 

But most importantly in comparison to Temple he's had one very good standout season as head coach. The club's best ever men's season, in 17 campaigns. That gives him the street cred, for an extension. But yes you'd think it will be a 1 + 1 type of deal.

martinb

Clearly asking the wrong questions. 
The question we need to ask is how can we stitch up things to suit us the way the Test Championship did?

Whatever the football equivalent of green top pitches, and 3 top quality seamers is.

coochiee

martinb

Clearly asking the wrong questions. 
The question we need to ask is how can we stitch up things to suit us the way the Test Championship did?

Whatever the football equivalent of green top pitches, and 3 top quality seamers is.

Sounds a lot like the four large lads up front on a rotating basis, Elliot finding them and a defense of Ryan Nelsen, Winston Reid and Tommy Smith that the All Whites had in 2010! 

Not sure about the Nix version. 

Marto

Bullion

Marto

coochiee

From Chiefy's post match chat tonight with the Parmount crew, sounds very much like he'll be getting a new deal announced this coming week.

I hope not.

We've been woeful this season and for all the highs of last season we still have absolutely nothing to show for it. Chiefy and the team bottled it when it mattered last year and HIS team this year has been dire since late '24.

AFC will likely have it's first trophy in a couple of weeks whereas for us it's been 18 odd years of pain and suffering.

If we use metrics, his team sucking and AFC dominating means the Nix will have permanently lost a significant proportion of its fan base. The Nix needed to excel this season to prevent haemorrhaging fans but we've been so bad, the club has actually helped AFC accrue more of them then it should have.

there's a good chance afc finish with less points than we accumulated last season - will need to win all 3 remaining games or 7 points to equal (reporting from rnz suggests afc also spending twice as much as the Nix on their alm team)

Maybe but the only team challenging us for a trophy-less cabinet is Tottenham but even then they won stuff wayyy back in the day.

18ish years for absolutely nothing is shark in anyone's eyes. 

Every other side I support has won something in that time, whether that team plays football, rugby or cricket.

Not a fan of the Warriors then?

If they keep Chief i wonder if they will also keep the existing group he has assisting of if they will try and change things.

Half a Pint

Marto

Bullion

Marto

coochiee

From Chiefy's post match chat tonight with the Parmount crew, sounds very much like he'll be getting a new deal announced this coming week.

I hope not.

We've been woeful this season and for all the highs of last season we still have absolutely nothing to show for it. Chiefy and the team bottled it when it mattered last year and HIS team this year has been dire since late '24.

AFC will likely have it's first trophy in a couple of weeks whereas for us it's been 18 odd years of pain and suffering.

If we use metrics, his team sucking and AFC dominating means the Nix will have permanently lost a significant proportion of its fan base. The Nix needed to excel this season to prevent haemorrhaging fans but we've been so bad, the club has actually helped AFC accrue more of them then it should have.

there's a good chance afc finish with less points than we accumulated last season - will need to win all 3 remaining games or 7 points to equal (reporting from rnz suggests afc also spending twice as much as the Nix on their alm team)

Maybe but the only team challenging us for a trophy-less cabinet is Tottenham but even then they won stuff wayyy back in the day.

18ish years for absolutely nothing is shark in anyone's eyes. 

Every other side I support has won something in that time, whether that team plays football, rugby or cricket.

Not a fan of the Warriors then?

Really bad enough i have to deal with Nix failure you have bring them into the discussion.

Half a Pint

Marto

Bullion

Marto

coochiee

From Chiefy's post match chat tonight with the Parmount crew, sounds very much like he'll be getting a new deal announced this coming week.

I hope not.

We've been woeful this season and for all the highs of last season we still have absolutely nothing to show for it. Chiefy and the team bottled it when it mattered last year and HIS team this year has been dire since late '24.

AFC will likely have it's first trophy in a couple of weeks whereas for us it's been 18 odd years of pain and suffering.

If we use metrics, his team sucking and AFC dominating means the Nix will have permanently lost a significant proportion of its fan base. The Nix needed to excel this season to prevent haemorrhaging fans but we've been so bad, the club has actually helped AFC accrue more of them then it should have.

there's a good chance afc finish with less points than we accumulated last season - will need to win all 3 remaining games or 7 points to equal (reporting from rnz suggests afc also spending twice as much as the Nix on their alm team)

Maybe but the only team challenging us for a trophy-less cabinet is Tottenham but even then they won stuff wayyy back in the day.

18ish years for absolutely nothing is shark in anyone's eyes. 

Every other side I support has won something in that time, whether that team plays football, rugby or cricket.

Not a fan of the Warriors then?

that is a correct statement! 

AFC have shown them up a bit too this season.

Is an announcement about Chiefs future due this coming week?

AucklandPhoenix

Is an announcement about Chiefs future due this coming week?

Not sure  about this week but think Gilly said they hope to have it sorted before the Perth game.

Auckland will win the premiership in their first season. Macarthur and Western Utd won trophies within 3 years of entering. That leaves the Phoenix as the only team in the league without a trophy having been in the league for almost 20 years now.

Chiefy has said he wants more resources, David said the focus is more on academy players.

That tells the story of why we can't win things.

If Chief doesn't like the lack of resources, he could always just decide to leave.  The fact that he wants to stay indicates to me he is content to live with the restrictions the club have.  Not saying he shouldn't be give more resources, just saying he has a choice.

Anyway, anything that is worth having doesn't come easily.  When (if) we win, it will be sweeter - we have 18 years of stories to highlight our journey and struggles.  Everything has been easy for MAGA FC. What hardships have they suffered. 

NZPhoenixFan

Auckland will win the premiership in their first season. Macarthur and Western Utd won trophies within 3 years of entering. That leaves the Phoenix as the only team in the league without a trophy having been in the league for almost 20 years now.

Chiefy has said he wants more resources, David said the focus is more on academy players.

That tells the story of why we can't win things.

58 attempts at silverware (18x2 in ALM, 4x2 in ALW, 10x Aus Cup, 2x Pre-season Cup), and only even came second in two of those.

Auckland going 1 for 1.

Ouch.

Procrastinixing

If Chief doesn't like the lack of resources, he could always just decide to leave.  The fact that he wants to stay indicates to me he is content to live with the restrictions the club have.  Not saying he shouldn't be give more resources, just saying he has a choice.

Anyway, anything that is worth having doesn't come easily.  When (if) we win, it will be sweeter - we have 18 years of stories to highlight our journey and struggles.  Everything has been easy for MAGA FC. What hardships have they suffered. 

What hardships have they suffered?

Damn right. AFC have definitely earned the premiers plate, the likes of De Vries and Paulsen have had great seasons, and they will probably win the title as well, but in their short history, they are literally already the definition of Mr. Perfect.

I mean, when are AFC ever going to be forced away from their own fans and family and forced to play over in Aussie for pretty much two full seasons because of a worldwide pandemic? When are they ever going to be threatened with being got rid of by the APL?

Give us shark all you want the Port and AFC fans, rub your premiers plate and probably title trophy in our faces, but unlike AFC, we fudgeing know what it feels like to suffer hardship, devastation, heartache, and not be perfect pretty much every single time.

Lot of melodramatic shark about AFC in here. Seems like cope.

We aren't more noble because we've never won anything, we just kinda suck. It's not a virtue to be worse than every other team.

LT01

NZPhoenixFan

Auckland will win the premiership in their first season. Macarthur and Western Utd won trophies within 3 years of entering. That leaves the Phoenix as the only team in the league without a trophy having been in the league for almost 20 years now.

Chiefy has said he wants more resources, David said the focus is more on academy players.

That tells the story of why we can't win things.

58 attempts at silverware (18x2 in ALM, 4x2 in ALW, 10x Aus Cup, 2x Pre-season Cup), and only even came second in two of those.

Auckland going 1 for 1.

Ouch.

It's late and I'm obviously blind to some simple maths here.
But why 18x2 in ALM and 4x2 in ALW?  Why the x2?

Premiership and championship. Two opportunities for silverware each season

coochiee

LT01

NZPhoenixFan

Auckland will win the premiership in their first season. Macarthur and Western Utd won trophies within 3 years of entering. That leaves the Phoenix as the only team in the league without a trophy having been in the league for almost 20 years now.

Chiefy has said he wants more resources, David said the focus is more on academy players.

That tells the story of why we can't win things.

58 attempts at silverware (18x2 in ALM, 4x2 in ALW, 10x Aus Cup, 2x Pre-season Cup), and only even came second in two of those.

Auckland going 1 for 1.

Ouch.

It's late and I'm obviously blind to some simple maths here.
But why 18x2 in ALM and 4x2 in ALW?  Why the x2?

Maybe the Nix club should stop thinking that constantly changing the coach will fix things and maybe have a look at the management. The same  people in management constantly delivering poor outcomes. The 3000 crowd should be setting off alarm bells. If you want to see a different perspective on how to run an A League club go on Youtube and see the 45 min interview with the AFC CEO. 

Yep, I would ten times more prefer that dome gets the chop, then him chopping Chief.

It starts from the top

Dome is fine... the club has invested heavily in the team and coaches over the years.

We now have the best training facilities, a women's team and an academy which is producing players.

Trophies aren't the only way to measure success.

This year has been meh... but we have no off field excuse IMO. Down to players and coaches.

I mean we could definitely use a more driven, ambitious and demanding CEO. But what on earth gave you the impression that the Nix think that constantly changing coaches will fix things? Apart from Kalezic (who actually jumped before he was pushed), they've never sacked a manager, or even let a manager go at the end of his contract. Herbert, Merrick, Rudan & Talay all decided themselves to leave. It'd actually be refreshing if they were ruthless at this point and said sorry Chiefy, this season simply wasn't good enough, you have to go. 

austin111

Maybe the Nix club should stop thinking that constantly changing the coach will fix things and maybe have a look at the management. The same  people in management constantly delivering poor outcomes. The 3000 crowd should be setting off alarm bells. If you want to see a different perspective on how to run an A League club go on Youtube and see the 45 min interview with the AFC CEO. 

imanixsupporter

I mean we could definitely use a more driven, ambitious and demanding CEO. But what on earth gave you the impression that the Nix think that constantly changing coaches will fix things? Apart from Kalezic (who actually jumped before he was pushed), they've never sacked a manager, or even let a manager go at the end of his contract. Herbert, Merrick, Rudan & Talay all decided themselves to leave. It'd actually be refreshing if they were ruthless at this point and said sorry Chiefy, this season simply wasn't good enough, you have to go. 

austin111

Maybe the Nix club should stop thinking that constantly changing the coach will fix things and maybe have a look at the management. The same  people in management constantly delivering poor outcomes. The 3000 crowd should be setting off alarm bells. If you want to see a different perspective on how to run an A League club go on Youtube and see the 45 min interview with the AFC CEO. 

Why are we so 'kind'

Stems from the top - we don’t have an ambitious, driven and demanding CEO

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360659673/its-been-challenging-decision-coach-giancarlo-italianos-wellington-phoenix-future-nears

That Italiano got them closer to a trophy last season than anyone had since Ricki Herbert in 2010 will be a key factor if he does receive a contract extension. He still has the best win percentage (41.82%) of any Phoenix coach.

Nah, I think you have to be realistic with the options for replacement. If Chief leaves there are probably only 2 or 3 genuine options to replace him with. 

Coaches willing to move to a league like ours who're worth their salt are few and far between. You're more likely to get a Kalezic than anyone else from outside the league. 

Once we look inside the league there are really just two decent options right? Greenacre and Stanton... Then what - if we hire one of them and they have a bad first season because of Chief's mostly pre-made squad do we get rid of them? I'd rather not get into a merry go round of coaches. Further to that, the club doesn't want to be seen as a cut throat place for coaches to die, we are simply not a good enough club to be super cut throat.

I'm not saying it would be cut throat to get rid of Chief. More that the club is basically stuck with the next coach for at least 2 years. You wanna be sure of that decision. They also probably see a lot of potential stars coming through the academy and don't wanna screw that up.

Finally, if you look at it from the clubs perspective - they've had 6 years(?) with Chief. They've been very impressed with him for 5 of those years and now had one awful year. Depending on what he tells them in interviews I'd find it acceptable to keep him.

anaveragestem

Nah, I think you have to be realistic with the options for replacement. If Chief leaves there are probably only 2 or 3 genuine options to replace him with. 

Coaches willing to move to a league like ours who're worth their salt are few and far between. You're more likely to get a Kalezic than anyone else from outside the league. 

Once we look inside the league there are really just two decent options right? Greenacre and Stanton... Then what - if we hire one of them and they have a bad first season because of Chief's mostly pre-made squad do we get rid of them? I'd rather not get into a merry go round of coaches. Further to that, the club doesn't want to be seen as a cut throat place for coaches to die, we are simply not a good enough club to be super cut throat.

I'm not saying it would be cut throat to get rid of Chief. More that the club is basically stuck with the next coach for at least 2 years. You wanna be sure of that decision. They also probably see a lot of potential stars coming through the academy and don't wanna screw that up.

Finally, if you look at it from the clubs perspective - they've had 6 years(?) with Chief. They've been very impressed with him for 5 of those years and now had one awful year. Depending on what he tells them in interviews I'd find it acceptable to keep him.

Whatever the club do, they need to make sure it’s the right decision as they’ll have haemorrhaged fans to the other team this season. They cannot afford another insipid season. The next team needs to be inspiring and provide a perception of success, or the same thing will happen and the casual crowd will continue to shrink. I hope to hell those running the club realise this, or they’ll be in for a rude awakening, and it’ll be us fans that suffer. Regardless, substantial investment in the team needs to made, and early, to give the team a chance of gelling. 

Marto

Half a Pint

Marto

Bullion

Marto

coochiee

From Chiefy's post match chat tonight with the Parmount crew, sounds very much like he'll be getting a new deal announced this coming week.

I hope not.

We've been woeful this season and for all the highs of last season we still have absolutely nothing to show for it. Chiefy and the team bottled it when it mattered last year and HIS team this year has been dire since late '24.

AFC will likely have it's first trophy in a couple of weeks whereas for us it's been 18 odd years of pain and suffering.

If we use metrics, his team sucking and AFC dominating means the Nix will have permanently lost a significant proportion of its fan base. The Nix needed to excel this season to prevent haemorrhaging fans but we've been so bad, the club has actually helped AFC accrue more of them then it should have.

there's a good chance afc finish with less points than we accumulated last season - will need to win all 3 remaining games or 7 points to equal (reporting from rnz suggests afc also spending twice as much as the Nix on their alm team)

Maybe but the only team challenging us for a trophy-less cabinet is Tottenham but even then they won stuff wayyy back in the day.

18ish years for absolutely nothing is shark in anyone's eyes. 

Every other side I support has won something in that time, whether that team plays football, rugby or cricket.

Not a fan of the Warriors then?

that is a correct statement! 

AFC have shown them up a bit too this season.

The sad thing is that I reckon the Nix aren't that comparable to the warriors. Way more Aussie money gets thrown around in the NRL and the competition is way more geared towards one of their large clubs winning it. The Nix are in a league that doesn't spend anywhere near that of the NRL and the Nix typically spend the middle ground - yet haven't won! That is kind of crazy to consider.

Really the most comparable team in NZ to us is the Breakers... and they've one 3 or 4 times? Three in a row?  :( sad

anaveragestem

Marto

Half a Pint

Marto

Bullion

Marto

coochiee

From Chiefy's post match chat tonight with the Parmount crew, sounds very much like he'll be getting a new deal announced this coming week.

I hope not.

We've been woeful this season and for all the highs of last season we still have absolutely nothing to show for it. Chiefy and the team bottled it when it mattered last year and HIS team this year has been dire since late '24.

AFC will likely have it's first trophy in a couple of weeks whereas for us it's been 18 odd years of pain and suffering.

If we use metrics, his team sucking and AFC dominating means the Nix will have permanently lost a significant proportion of its fan base. The Nix needed to excel this season to prevent haemorrhaging fans but we've been so bad, the club has actually helped AFC accrue more of them then it should have.

there's a good chance afc finish with less points than we accumulated last season - will need to win all 3 remaining games or 7 points to equal (reporting from rnz suggests afc also spending twice as much as the Nix on their alm team)

Maybe but the only team challenging us for a trophy-less cabinet is Tottenham but even then they won stuff wayyy back in the day.

18ish years for absolutely nothing is shark in anyone's eyes. 

Every other side I support has won something in that time, whether that team plays football, rugby or cricket.

Not a fan of the Warriors then?

that is a correct statement! 

AFC have shown them up a bit too this season.

The sad thing is that I reckon the Nix aren't that comparable to the warriors. Way more Aussie money gets thrown around in the NRL and the competition is way more geared towards one of their large clubs winning it. The Nix are in a league that doesn't spend anywhere near that of the NRL and the Nix typically spend the middle ground - yet haven't won! That is kind of crazy to consider.

Really the most comparable team in NZ to us is the Breakers... and they've one 3 or 4 times? Three in a row?  :( sad

Breakers only won when the league was basically collapsing and teams still in the competition were barely staying afloat with the Breakers comfortably able to outspend the rest of the league.