Nix NZFC Reserves

Wasn't the original concept that the Nix ressies would play a NZFC team with points up for grabs.  However the nix wouldn't be able to win the league and hence be excluded from the playoff? 

Better than nothing

OOHHHH...

[QUOTE=Royal] [QUOTE=TheKop]Still no reserves for Phoenix 6/24/2009 2:00 PM

The New Zealand Football Championship sides continue not to allow the Phoenix to enter a reserve team in their league The Phoenix have still got the "situation vacant" sign up for their reserve team. The New Zealand Football

Championship sides have prevented the Phoenix entering a reserve team in their league to date. Phoenix CEO Tony Pignata says the club's excuse that playing a reserve side might compromise their amateur status irritates him. He says the move would benefit football in New Zealand as well as the individual clubs. He says the games would have been televised and they could have used them as curtain-raisers to A-league fixtures. Pignata says he will now sound out Football Australia in the hope of playing a reserve team in its domestic competition - otherwise the team could be forced to have a knock around at the local park.

Sauce - Radio Sport

Another NZ team to get shipped off overseas...[/QU

can't the Nix 'reserves' play a games against local teams ?

or do they actually have to be in a 'competition' ?
whooooooo2009-06-27 11:56:34

That is what they have normally don, but they wanted something more meaningful.

I think something more meaningful is definitely what we are after but seeing as we can't get it - we should try find something ourselves still to be played at the ROF before home games.

Just I guess now we might not be able to sign many youngsters

Qoute from front page news item " Franchises Put An End To Phoenix's Hope"

Team Wellington chairman John Dow, spokesman for the franchises, defended the franchises' "collective" decision and said they remained supportive of the Phoenix.

He said they faced issues from a legality point of view, particularly around Fifa's 30-day stand-down period for professionals dropping down to play in an amateur competition.

"One of the conditions Football Australia had was that before we took the issue up with Fifa, we would have to change the legal status of the [NZFC] from amateur to professional to get around the four-week stand-down period," Dow said.

"What that does is it throws into doubt grant and trust money. If we were to change to a professional league, that sort of sponsorship would not be possible. We would lose that money from the game and the clubs just wouldn't have been able to operate."

I can understand that NZFC franchises will feel threatened about any official change from amateur to professional league.

Certainly any change will threaten existing arrangements and may even undo good work done by devoted people for the good of Football in NZ, as they see it.

There's a certain amount of deceit in the franchises stance (not blaming John Dow here-he's the messenger) re the true state of the NZFC and questions of "shamateur" status.

The big problem is, the strength and potential of football in New Zealand is being stifled at the very top, in what should be NZ Football's Showcase, its shopfront to the world.

That addiction to trust handouts prevents a swathe of growth opportunities to take place particularly with sponsorship and promotion. The best NZ football has to offer is trapped in smothered dependency.Change wont be easy, but surely needs to happen.

The challenge the Phoenix bid for inclusion has presented is probably timely,unfortunately for the Phoenix it isn't sorted this season.

Hopefully NZF will have the courage to take the necessary steps in 2010/11 when they review the NZFC franchise agreements.

Hopefully....

RedGed2009-06-27 22:51:05

The other possible problem is that if NZFC goes "professional", then calls for the Phoenix to be cut from the A-league may be be stronger as NZF will actually have a localised "professional" soccer competition. (all smokescreen really)

However if they are able to look at the Canadian teams, there are a mixture of "professionalism" and that TFC has to plays in the MSL. Another example is J-league 2 is a mix professional league with only certain teams can apply to J-league 1 if they fit the right criteria.

Say if NZFC does go "professional" which is going to be tough to do, it will be a mix "professional" league and if that would be the case, an Auckland team or another team can make a case for a second NZ A-league team, if they prove to have fit the tight criteria.

If we able to get 3 NZ A-league teams and run a professional 2nd tier NZFC (with 3 reserve teams included), I think we would have the right balance for our country.

Of course only those NZFC teams which are not reserve teams (or teams with players that never played in the A-league) may only be O-league teams for the CWC (if CWC exist for the OFC by then). Or that FIFA make an exception for to allow all NZ teams (include nix) in a localised competition and the winner to take O-league spot as NZ representatives, like what the Canadian teams are doing in their confederation.

The whole thing make your head go round . . . but one step at a time.

BTW if that AFC head does get the FIFA president job, will he able to influence FIFA to change and allow the Nix into the O-league because he does not want the Nix in the ACL?

Somehow, that could work out but will damp NZ chances of going to AFC.

Then again, if NZ does go to AFC, then the whole thing would not be an issue in the first place.

Arrrggghhh !!! . . . . I got a sore head. AllWhitebelievr2009-06-28 01:15:52

It would certainly cause a lot of headaches for the existing franchises and its no wonder they dont want the Nix in their competition at this stage. Its not right for the Nix management to be complianing when it is really up to them to sort out these problems with NZF first and present something workable to the NZFC franchises which to date they havent done.

Is it possible (if the money is the only real issue) to create a bye round whereas each team with the bye plays the phoenix?

I know they want it to be a meaningful competition, but this way they get regular football, TV coverage could be explored, and many of the other benefits could be realised.

It really does seem to be a case of giving up because it looks too hard?

Errrr. . . . I am not too familiar with the US college system. Is their criteria is based on the NZFC being professional or being Amateur or is the criteria is based on the player being professional or being Amateur? There is a difference. A player can play for a professional club along side with professional teammates but yet still have an Amateur Status in the professional squad because they don't receive money above the travel expenses.AllWhitebelievr2009-06-28 23:03:34

The NCAA are draconian.  If you play in a team with a professional player, or even a league where someone is paid you are at risk.

Lucky no one is paid to play NZFC...

As there are 8 NZFC teams, you would have two teams in a bye with one team playing the Nixs and the other team having a rest. Not really ideal as there would only have three NZFC matches per week, plus if any injuries occurs in a meaningless game for the NZFC team, they would have to foot the medical expenses and this affects their whole season, all for making another club happy. Quite pointless to risk such an idea.

Also, noone would want to have a TV coverage on a meaningless friendly game between clubs with nothing at stake.

Gee this is coming out to be a bit of a joke and a laugh. So in a league of say 9 or 10 and only one team is professional, then a young 18 year kid playing for one of the other 8 or 9 Amateur team against a professional team is screwed trying to apply for the NCAA?

Also having only one team as professionals and every other team are Amateurs, the league is declared to have a Professional status? What are the FIFA rules regarding this?

It's got nothing to do with FIFA it is the eligibility rules of the NCAA and NAIA. Applies in all collegiate sports, your eligibility ends if you participate in any competition with professionals. As HN says, draconian but there has been a lot of dodgey dealings over the years in collegiate sports and they like to think of themselves as the last bastion of amateurism.

Who knows what might be possible next season following the NZF review.
If another franchise joined the current eight with the Phoenix Reserve team then your scenario could happen, Ex-1.

Are there any other potential franchises wanting to join the NZFC ? I vaguely remember talk of another Auckland based outfit in this forum a while back.
Alternatively, (and this could be a whole new can of worms but...!!) what about the OFC coming up with a combined, non-NZ islands team as that extra team, if one wasn't likely to come from within NZ?

Last season Frank Lowy discussed expanding the A-league, including a possible team from the islands.
There would be support from island communities all around the country for such a team here with the NZFC, and we would get a chance to see more of the best island talent here in NZ, before Lowy or Clive Palmer get their hands on them!


RedGed2009-06-30 00:24:11

My understanding is that if the NZFC was full time pro, that would stuff the Nix.  scribbler2009-06-29 16:28:47

I think thats how it works too. I really hope we can sort out this sh*t cause its so frustrating being part of such a set back club that doesn't have AFC or O-League or Youth team. It really makes me wonder why some players would choose wgtn over anywhere else?

Most of them don't.

See, people say that, but in truth isn't Robbie Kruse the only player we know of that said no ?

Best. Decision. Ever.

He didn't turn us down for another A-League side (or a side with O-League/ACL chances), he turned us down for more money from his existing club, Millwall.

Well it is unlikely as the FA of Wales will have to support us on this. The Welsh Premier League has been going on for 12 years. Since the FA of Wales is part of the IFAB, FIFA driven by the African and the Asian league did resented that fact that Welsh team were plying their trade in the English football as well as the independent status of the four British association. Therefore the Welsh Premier League was created by the FA of Wales.

http://www.welshpremier.com/History.ink

At the moment, the Welsh Premier league has a professional league status with some of the teams being full time professionals and other teams being semi-professional. In it time, it has not been able to attract the bigger population centred-based Welsh clubs in the English Football Pyramid.

However their players have taken the career pathway from the Welsh Premier league and into the English professional League like Mark Delaney, an established International player, who attracted attention with Carmarthen Town and made his way into the Welsh side via Cardiff and Aston Villa. Or former TNS stalwart and Welsh Premier League Player of the Year in 2004/05, Steve Evans won his first cap against Liechtenstein at the Racecourse, just five months after graduating from the League to Wrexham.

Cardiff, Swansea, Newport and Wrexham are home to teams playing in the English football league system, it is debatable whether a club from those areas would have the support to be competitive in the Welsh Premier League. As such, the Welsh Premier League is made up of clubs from smaller towns and even villages. It has recently been proposed that these Welsh clubs plying their trade in the English football pyramid could field reserve or representative teams in the league.

So they are in the same situation like we are with fielding a reserve team. But more importantly, the calls for Cardiff, Swansea, Newport and Wrexham to leave the English Football Pryamid are not successful given their long history.

In the same way, we can claim the same as we (NZ football clubs) have an long association with the Australian football Pyramid starting with NSL with the Kingz, then Knights in the A-League and now with the Phoenix. We have a shared history as well as a simple explanation of the lack of population and football standard affecting the country's economic dynamics.

The original argument for the Kingz's inclusion in the NSL was that there is a lack of a local professional league. However this would have to fall on the way side as time has gone by and that a great period of time has been established with an association with Australian football with our elite professional clubs. (Kingz, Knights and Phoenix)

However for NZFC to have professional league status does not mean that all the teams are full timers and hence the standard is not too similar to the clubs teams in the Welsh Premier League. The Phoenix has the same situation as for the four professional Welsh clubs in the English Football Pyramid at the present time.

I can't this being too much of a problem. As the only full timers are would be the Phoenix Reserve and not the other NZFC teams, accordingly to the whole idea.

Not sure where or how to start this post but read the story and just shook my head and said to myself thank God we are not in Oceania .. and those NZ internal politics WOW, as inept, corrupt, bankrupt both morally and financially the NSL was at least it made / built the junior and state leagues to the Australia's best.

 It appears you still have bean counters and self interested people in positions of power and influence ... as I said thank God we got out of Oceania ... and do these pricks realise Asia is watching...

Like Oceania or some within Oceania want to become part of Asia or at least have a Oceania team compete in an Asian qualifying program...

Sorry for you guys .. I hope common sense prevails... if not you should vote these guys out...  

This would have not happen if we were in AFC with you guys. The whole issue would have never reared it's ugly head like this. But fat chance of us being in AFC with that guy being still been it's head.AllWhitebelievr2009-07-01 01:23:18

from Radio Sport Andrew Dewhurst's Total  Football Show last week here's John Dow re the NZFC and Phoenix reserves team. Sounded like they were relatively supportive, tbh.

www.radiosport.co.nz/ThisWeek/12030.wma

starts 5'20"   and ends 12' 30" ish.
RedGed2009-07-03 10:52:16

f**k!

http://au.fourfourtwo.com/news/106863,ais-join-the-national-youth-league.aspx

There goes our last - albeit slim - chance of making the Youth League this season.

It screws us for the rest of time, unless they let the Tassie youth team in, providing Tasmania doesn't get a club.

maybe Tassie will agree to not take first prize ...or have a reserve team...Look on the bright side !

Interesting Youth League & AIS best invited to an Australian  youth training camp ...

http://player.sbs.com.au/twg#/twg_08/AussieFocus/AussieFocus/playlist/Young-Socceroos-preparations/