Phoenix Ownership - Rob says FTFFA (Part 1)
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Look for me on TV1 news tonight shrugging my shoulders and saying "who knows" in response to questions about whether Terry should sell, will sell, or won't sell the Phoenix, who to, why, and for how much.
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Will we see Cr Morrison with his Nix Scarf?
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Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn
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I love the fact that One News basically contradicted themselves during their bulletin leading story on Mr Serepisos' money woes and how he was going to have to sell everything to pay off his debts, by showing a quote by a Wellington Real Estate Agent saying that most of Terry's buildings have been on the market for some time!
Rubbish sensationalistic reporting by the NZ Media once again...
Rubbish sensationalistic reporting by the NZ Media once again...
"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009
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It's about time he put the club up for sale. It's beyond a joke now and the club ARE suffering for it, despite all the tiresome denials we hear and how everything is rosy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone
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I love the fact that One News basically contradicted themselves during their bulletin leading story on Mr Serepisos' money woes and how he was going to have to sell everything to pay off his debts, by showing a quote by a Wellington Real Estate Agent saying that most of Terry's buildings have been on the market for some time!
Rubbish sensationalistic reporting by the NZ Media once again...
Rubbish sensationalistic reporting by the NZ Media once again...
It's not necessarily a contradiction - Terry has been trying to sell properties to clear his debts. What's become apparent today is that he's trying to reach a deal with his creditors to give him time to actually sell up and pay off debts (think he's talking two years), rather than going to court every few weeks or so when another creditor turns up looking for their money.el grapadura2011-08-29 20:43:02
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the club ARE suffering for it
How?
Also, you have absolutely no leverage to make TS do anything, unless you happen to be one of his major creditors, or you're going to lead a fans' boycott or something.
Doloras2011-08-29 20:48:21
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
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It's about time he put the club up for sale. It's beyond a joke now and the club ARE suffering for it, despite all the tiresome denials we hear and how everything is rosy.
Well that simply isn't going to happen. We all know that. It's time we accepted that and stopped asking for the magic pixies to change things.
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Oh come on, HN, don't you get it? Believing that Terry hanging in for grim death is the best of a bunch of bad options right now is denial and delusion. Believing that if only he were to admit defeat, a White Knight would ride in with megabucks, buy the Nix and win us the toilet seat is simply facing the facts. 
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
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Perhaps he will simply not relinquish the Nix until forced to by bankruptcy or death, and I hope no-one's getting any ideas about hiring hit-men.
Interesting, though, if you think there may actually be a White Knight. I certainly wouldn't object to a serious proposal from someone who would be prepared to put as much "skin in the game" as Terry.
Interesting, though, if you think there may actually be a White Knight. I certainly wouldn't object to a serious proposal from someone who would be prepared to put as much "skin in the game" as Terry.
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
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I have a question for lawyers here - when a person is facing bankruptcy proceedings because they are unable to keep up with debt repayment (as Terry has admitted today), do the courts have the power, in addition to forcing asset sales, to force the person facing bankruptcy to consolidate their business interests by dropping/abandoning unprofitable ventures?
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WHY IS TERRY BEING TARGETED SO MUCH BY THE MEDIA? Is this the BIGGEST news here in New Zealand?!? If so its pathetic. Terrys situation pales in comparison to what is actually happening in the world. There are millions of crooks out there with FAR bigger problems than Terry.. The majority of major football clubs in the world have termendous debt issues (far supressing those of Terry) yet is this on the front page in their respective countries? I just dont get it. Is Terry really in as much trouble as the media makes out?
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That may well be something that his creditors stipulate for them to acquiesce to the deal. If he owes all this money [he does] then I think it would be unfaor for any Court to say its OK Terry for you to keep hemorrhaging money into the Phoenix when you should be spending that money on repaying your debts. I might not understand how this all works but I'd be surprised if this type of deal could go ahead without a majority of creditors saying "yes".
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Seeing the debt and the assets in writing is very concerning.
The question for me is how much do those assets produce in the way of cashflow, or profit.
They need to produce at least 10M to keep up with a nominal interest rate of 5% on the 200 M, and then more to cover overheads and expenses, and then more again to repay creditors. If the interest rates are higher than that, (and they probably are) then the whole problem escalates.
I can see Terry hoping to get the 2 years to sell, and maybe the market will rise in his favour.
A very tight situation, good luck to him in that
Serious concerns about the Nix viability though
The question for me is how much do those assets produce in the way of cashflow, or profit.
They need to produce at least 10M to keep up with a nominal interest rate of 5% on the 200 M, and then more to cover overheads and expenses, and then more again to repay creditors. If the interest rates are higher than that, (and they probably are) then the whole problem escalates.
I can see Terry hoping to get the 2 years to sell, and maybe the market will rise in his favour.
A very tight situation, good luck to him in that
Serious concerns about the Nix viability though
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What this all boils down to is the question of exactly how reliant are the Nix on Terry?
The (lazily) accepted "truth" seems to be that the Nix lose about $1m a year, but that information comes from Terry himself who, in the past at least, has had a vested interest in pumping that number up. After all, the bigger it is the more of a hero he looks.
But are we really, consistently, losing $1m a year? Considering the amount of derision that is poured by some on other statements Terry has made about his finances I'm surprised more questioning hasn't been done of the one figure in all of this that actually matters to the future of the Nix.
One thing is for sure, right now Terry can hardly be accused of just splashing the money around and trying to buy the championship. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the Nix currently operate on the smallest budget in the A-League.
Is it possible that Terry's creditors aren't that interested in the Nix, and that Terry himself is happy to keep the Nix going, because it isn't costing him quite as much as we have been led to believe?
Someone should call a meeting with Terry and demand to see the books
The (lazily) accepted "truth" seems to be that the Nix lose about $1m a year, but that information comes from Terry himself who, in the past at least, has had a vested interest in pumping that number up. After all, the bigger it is the more of a hero he looks.
But are we really, consistently, losing $1m a year? Considering the amount of derision that is poured by some on other statements Terry has made about his finances I'm surprised more questioning hasn't been done of the one figure in all of this that actually matters to the future of the Nix.
One thing is for sure, right now Terry can hardly be accused of just splashing the money around and trying to buy the championship. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the Nix currently operate on the smallest budget in the A-League.
Is it possible that Terry's creditors aren't that interested in the Nix, and that Terry himself is happy to keep the Nix going, because it isn't costing him quite as much as we have been led to believe?
Someone should call a meeting with Terry and demand to see the books
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the club ARE suffering for it
How?
Also, you have absolutely no leverage to make TS do anything, unless you happen to be one of his major creditors, or you're going to lead a fans' boycott or something.
We've got a squad of 16 and a backroom staff of about 3 for starters. Signing prospects are not exactly in the 'high profile' bracket and the one that possibly was jumped on the first plane out of here after seeing what we offered.
When there's this much uncertainty, it's no wonder we don't exactly have a queue of players battering the door down wanting to play for us. There's been a fair few that have headed out the exit door though...
If you can truly say that this situation has had no effect on the team then I think you are deluded quite frankly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone
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If your frame of reference is that the Nix should be challenging for the title, then yes, you will probably be feeling frustrated and depressed.
If your frame of reference is that we were meant to be dead and buried by now but here we are, weeks from the start of the season, with a modest but perfectly reasonable looking squad, then party on dude.
terminator_x2011-08-29 22:49:41
If your frame of reference is that we were meant to be dead and buried by now but here we are, weeks from the start of the season, with a modest but perfectly reasonable looking squad, then party on dude.
terminator_x2011-08-29 22:49:41
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Havnt bothered visiting for some time,but appears some of you still have those same specs that Terry wears when it comes to the money.
Not sure how many of you speak to others outside of the football community,but many of those i have spoken to like me are so over this rubbish.Before you jump down my throat and say so what.Many of these people are the same ones who may not buy a season pass but would attend a few games a season.
Just dont get how some of you can still claim that this BS hasnt had an affect on memberships and player and staff recruitment.
Not sure how many of you speak to others outside of the football community,but many of those i have spoken to like me are so over this rubbish.Before you jump down my throat and say so what.Many of these people are the same ones who may not buy a season pass but would attend a few games a season.
Just dont get how some of you can still claim that this BS hasnt had an affect on memberships and player and staff recruitment.
GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS
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What this all boils down to is the question of exactly how reliant are the Nix on Terry?The (lazily) accepted "truth" seems to be that the Nix lose about $1m a year, but that information comes from Terry himself who, in the past at least, has had a vested interest in pumping that number up. After all, the bigger it is the more of a hero he looks.But are we really, consistently, losing $1m a year? Considering the amount of derision that is poured by some on other statements Terry has made about his finances I'm surprised more questioning hasn't been done of the one figure in all of this that actually matters to the future of the Nix.One thing is for sure, right now Terry can hardly be accused of just splashing the money around and trying to buy the championship. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the Nix currently operate on the smallest budget in the A-League.Is it possible that Terry's creditors aren't that interested in the Nix, and that Terry himself is happy to keep the Nix going, because it isn't costing him quite as much as we have been led to believe?Someone should call a meeting with Terry and demand to see the books
I believe that it is generally accepted around the league that most A-league clubs lose around $1-1.5m per season (or at least have been so far), so I guess it makes sense that the Phoenix is in a similar boat. Whether that's actually true or not none of us on here can actually know, but in the absence of any evidence suggesting otherwise, it's a reasonable assumption to make.
My feeling is that Terry has a much stronger and deeper connection to the Phoenix than he does to his other ventures - in other words, think he sees the Phoenix as more than a business entity there to make a profit for him. And that's fair enough, the Phoenix has been a tremendous success story so far for football both in Wellington, and even more importantly, in New Zealand, and none of this would have happened without Terry, and he's well aware of that.
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COYN Bar for the massive interest he's paying for late payments, that difference will be dropping every day.
FFA should step in and offer out the liscence to the NIX, and say to Terry, you have 2 months to sort out this mess or we got with an interested party.
Lets see if there is any one out there willing to take the club on.
This has dragged on for too long and must surely be damaging so much of the good work that has come about football through the introduction of the NIX.
The club is bigger than one man and his ego and if Terry really valued the club, its name, the players and the sport he would not let it die a slow death which is what i fear may happen.
NZ only support winning teams, and judging by our recruitment and standard of players (we are no better than last year - if not worse imo) the damage done to the club already could become a lot worse.
Thank you for all you have done Terry, you will be remembered for this fondly, now step aside.
FFA should step in and offer out the liscence to the NIX, and say to Terry, you have 2 months to sort out this mess or we got with an interested party.
Lets see if there is any one out there willing to take the club on.
This has dragged on for too long and must surely be damaging so much of the good work that has come about football through the introduction of the NIX.
The club is bigger than one man and his ego and if Terry really valued the club, its name, the players and the sport he would not let it die a slow death which is what i fear may happen.
NZ only support winning teams, and judging by our recruitment and standard of players (we are no better than last year - if not worse imo) the damage done to the club already could become a lot worse.
Thank you for all you have done Terry, you will be remembered for this fondly, now step aside.
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I still want to know the evidence all you guys have for "the reason we haven't recruited any superstars is because they've been reading bad things about our owner's finances". You talk like it's obvious, but it's not, unless you can actually read Maceo Ritgers' mind. Perhaps some of you who still live in Welly might not realise it, but if a classy European player was going to come and play in the A-League for lifestyle reasons, a small town of 400,000 people with limited shopping and notoriously awful weather is not a great drawcard. (We should really be grateful for what we have - Iffy, Sanchez, Warner, etc.)
No, what's really happened is that you guys have lost all faith in the Nix because of the negative stories in the Doom Post and the NBR, and you assume that everyone else in the world has as well. That's what child psychologists call "absence of theory of mind".
I'm with T-X. I think we've got a good squad and we'll probably make the finals again and I'm going to appreciate my team while we still have them. Terry selling up at this point would only disrupt things worse. I think it's absolutely borderline intellectually disabled to be discussing ownership changes between now and the end of the season. (At that point, all bets are off.)
Doloras2011-08-30 09:43:02
No, what's really happened is that you guys have lost all faith in the Nix because of the negative stories in the Doom Post and the NBR, and you assume that everyone else in the world has as well. That's what child psychologists call "absence of theory of mind".
I'm with T-X. I think we've got a good squad and we'll probably make the finals again and I'm going to appreciate my team while we still have them. Terry selling up at this point would only disrupt things worse. I think it's absolutely borderline intellectually disabled to be discussing ownership changes between now and the end of the season. (At that point, all bets are off.)
Doloras2011-08-30 09:43:02
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
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FFA should step in and offer out the liscence to the NIX, and say to Terry, you have 2 months to sort out this mess or we got with an interested party. [/quote]
But the FFA really, really like Terry. They consider him one of the best owners. If you don't get why that is then you can't really grasp the issues involved here.
if Terry really valued the club, its name, the players and the sport he would not let it die a slow death which is what i fear may happen.
Fears aren't facts.
[quote]NZ only support winning teams,
If the continued existence of the Nix depends on us winning the toilet seat, then either we get Clive Palmer to buy us or we give up now.
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
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Great member title Ballane!
Shame the rest of us arnt able to label other members isnt it.But then that pretty much says a lot about things around here.You and Nightz should start your own forum.
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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if terry has got this far what is stopping him sorting this all out, he hasnt failed us yet
Calling all fans in Japan, come down and support the mighty nix in Osaka
http://www.facebook.com/WellingtonPhoenixClubMembersSupportersGroupOsaka
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No, what's really happened is that you guys have lost all faith in the Nix because of the negative stories in the Doom Post and the NBR, and you assume that everyone else in the world has as well. That's what child psychologists call "absence of theory of mind".
What do the the grown-up psychologists call it?
(Also my theory the "Junior82 pontificates about things he knows nothing about" theory: It's mostly all the angst on this thread that drives the doom mongering - leaving aside the hacks looking to sell papers. Fine line between realistic and being a pessimistic whiner - which is quite a safe position to take cos if it goes t!ts up then you can adopt the concerned but smug "I told you so" position)
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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Great member title Ballane!
Shame the rest of us arnt able to label other members isnt it.But then that pretty much says a lot about things around here.You and Nightz should start your own forum.
A dog with a bone :)
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Great member title Ballane!
[/QUOTE]Shame the rest of us arnt able to label other members isnt it.But then that pretty much says a lot about things around here.
[/QUOTE]Shame the rest of us arnt able to label other members isnt it.But then that pretty much says a lot about things around here.
You and Nightz should start your own forum.
The last time you made sense was:
[quote=nightz] 15 Jun 2011 at 12:16pm: Totally agree with Smithy...
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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I still want to know the evidence all you guys have for "the reason we haven't recruited any superstars is because they've been reading bad things about our owner's finances". You talk like it's obvious, but it's not, unless you can actually read Maceo Ritgers' mind. Perhaps some of you who still live in Welly might not realise it, but if a classy European player was going to come and play in the A-League for lifestyle reasons, a small town of 400,000 people with limited shopping and notoriously awful weather is not a great drawcard. (We should really be grateful for what we have - Iffy, Sanchez, Warner, etc.)[/QUOTE]
IMO, those with that opinion, "the reason we haven't recruited any superstars is because they've been reading bad things about our owner's finances", hold that opinion because they expect any professional player, or at least their agent, would undertake due diligence before signing with the Phoenix. When a phone call to the PFA would reveal that there has been a history of late payments, and there are still currently payments in arrears, it may temper their enthusiasm to sign with the Phoenix.
[quote]Yesterday, Professional Footballers Association chief executive Brendan Schwab confirmed that the payments discussed last week had been paid, but said there were still some outstanding amounts.
The club had given an undertaking to Football Federation Australia that it would clear the amounts � some superannuation payments and money owed to former players � by today, he said.
IMO, those with that opinion, "the reason we haven't recruited any superstars is because they've been reading bad things about our owner's finances", hold that opinion because they expect any professional player, or at least their agent, would undertake due diligence before signing with the Phoenix. When a phone call to the PFA would reveal that there has been a history of late payments, and there are still currently payments in arrears, it may temper their enthusiasm to sign with the Phoenix.
[quote]Yesterday, Professional Footballers Association chief executive Brendan Schwab confirmed that the payments discussed last week had been paid, but said there were still some outstanding amounts.
The club had given an undertaking to Football Federation Australia that it would clear the amounts � some superannuation payments and money owed to former players � by today, he said.
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