Phoenix Ownership - Rob says FTFFA (Part 1)

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

Tegal wrote:

Ah I see.

You do say this at the start of every season mind you

Not entirely sure that's true, but you can't deny this squad is worse than either of those we've started the last two seasons with?

I don't mind denying that.

Here's our top 11 players from 2009/10 by games started...

Andrew Durante
Paul Ifill
Tony Lochhead
Tim Brown
Manny Muscat
Leo Bertos
Vince Lia
Chris Greenacre
Ben Sigmund
Jon McKain
Troy Hearfield

And here's our top 11 players from 2010/11 by games started...

Tim Brown
Manny Muscat
Ben Sigmund
Andrew Durante
Vince Lia
Troy Hearfield
Chris Greenacre
Paul Ifill
Jade North
Leo Bertos
Nick Ward

So basically you're saying we're worse off because we've lost Jon McKain, Troy Hearfield, Jade North and Nick Ward??

I'll give you Jon McKain but that's it. Every one of those other players is either no loss (North) or has been replaced by someone at least as good (Hearfield by Downey/Tsattalios and Ward by Pantelis).

The goalkeepers don't appear on those lists because Paston/Reddy and Paston/Vukovic all started a similar number of games.

terminator_x2011-08-30 22:08:58

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

terminator_x wrote:

scribbler wrote:

It's obvious, really. Relocate the Nix to the most liveable city in NZ, which also happens to rank #10 in the world.

[News}

Melbourne has vaulted Vancouver to become the best city in the world to live, according to the latest Economist Intelligence Unitï¿½s Global Liveability Survey.

Country City Rank Overall Rating (100=ideal)

Australia    Melbourne      1       97.5
Austria      Vienna            2       97.4
Canada     Vancouver      3       97.3
Canada     Toronto          4       97.2
Canada     Calgary           5      96.6
Australia   Sydney            6      96.1
Finland      Helsinki            7       96.0
Australia   Perth               8       95.9
Australia   Adelaide          8       95.9
NZ            Auckland       10     95.7

I presume Melbourne lost 2.5 points just for being a bit stabby.

This list was written by people who've paid to get their city on there!

Helsinki? Helsinki? It's dark half the year and it's got a horrific suicide rate.

Auckland No. 10? Bettter than Paris or Nottingham? They are having a bleeding laff........

Nostalgia isnt what it used to be...........

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

Auckland better than Nottingham, YES

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

Grandadi wrote:

terminator_x wrote:

scribbler wrote:

It's obvious, really. Relocate the Nix to the most liveable city in NZ, which also happens to rankï¿½#10 in the world.ï¿½

ï¿½

[News}ï¿½

Melbourne has vaulted Vancouver to become the best city in the world to live, according to the latest Economist Intelligence Unitï¿½s Global Liveability Survey.

Country City Rank Overall Rating (100=ideal)

I presume Melbourne lost 2.5 points just for being a bit stabby.

This list was written by people who've paid to get their city on there!

Helsinki? Helsinki? It's dark half the year and it's got a horrific suicide rate.

Auckland No. 10? Bettter than Paris or Nottingham? They are having a bleeding laff........

Economist Intelligence Unit?

If Economists had intelligence the world's financial situation wouldn't be so f*cked up!

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

Steve-O wrote:

Mehmet clearly has more pedigree than Sanchez and I'd definitely say he's a better player.

But we're arguing at cross-purposes. "Mehmet wasn't given a fair chance" is one argument. "Mehmet wasn't really let go, but ran away because of our dodgy owner" is a completely separate and opposite contention. Which are you arguing?

Anyway, Auckland will get much better once we get the CBD train stations and the semi-pedestrianisation of Queen Street sorted out. Auckland sucks but is getting better; Wellington is good but has been precisely that good for 20 years.

Doloras2011-08-31 10:49:25

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

hepatitis wrote:

Auckland better than Nottingham, YES

But....but....it's full of Merry Men! Like the 'Bencher!

Nostalgia isnt what it used to be...........

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

Grandadi wrote:

hepatitis wrote:

Auckland better than Nottingham, YES

But....but....it's full of Merry Men! Like the 'Bencher!

Yes but they cant see the Forest for the trees, wheras we can see the Nix through our knitting..

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

More fuel for the fire
NZ Herald today

"A consortium of high profile Wellington business people are ready and waiting to take over the Phoenix if Terry Serepisos sells up.

A group of prominent Wellington businessmen, including Kiwibank board member Rob Morrison, are understood to be behind a consortium ready to pick up the Phoenix, if Serepisos falls under the weight of $200 million of debt.

Wellington City Councillor John Morrison is unwilling to confirm names, but says the group is ready and Football Federation Australia is in the loop.

Morrison says the FFA knows there are significant backers, ready to step in.

Morrison says everyone knows Serepisos is in trouble, but everyone wants to see the Phoenix continue in Wellington.

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

win win then.

Allegedly

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

hepatitis wrote:

More fuel for the fire NZ Herald today

"A consortium of high profile Wellington business people are ready and
waiting to take over the Phoenix if Terry Serepisos sells up.

A group of prominent Wellington businessmen, including Kiwibank board
member Rob Morrison, are understood to be behind a consortium ready to
pick up the Phoenix, if Serepisos falls under the weight of $200 million
of debt.

Wellington City Councillor John Morrison is unwilling to confirm names,
but says the group is ready and Football Federation Australia is in the
loop.

Morrison says the FFA knows there are significant backers, ready to step in.

Morrison says everyone knows Serepisos is in trouble, but everyone wants to see the Phoenix continue in Wellington.

Any relation? I have grave suspicions about Cr Morrison's agenda here, considering he was blowing the "OH NOES COLIN GILTRAP IS COMING" horn a while back. He certainly wants people to get used to the idea of a post-Terry Nix.

If this is legit and not someone's fantasy, do these people actually have any money? For example, could they get Ritgers to come back? And are they prepared to show the devotion to the Nix that Terry has shown over 4 years, or are they just going to get bored and sell out as soon as they realise they don't make any money?

If so, then I would have no objection in principle to this bid. But I stand by my statements that a) changing owners before the end of this season would be bonkers unless absolutely necessary; (b) Terry will not sell unless he actually goes bankrupt or he dies or goes to jail or similar.Doloras2011-08-31 13:49:25

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

I have had people tell me they are holding off buying season tickets because they are unsure if the Nix will be around this season. If this gives them the certainty they need to buy their tickets then I think this is all good.

Founder

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

Well, I must say that I approve of Rob Morrison for his involvement in Pure Advantage. But I still think it stinks that bad news becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and that people are such bandwagon jumpers.

I'm buying my season ticket tomorrow.

Doloras2011-08-31 13:53:54

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

Doloras wrote:

hepatitis wrote:

More fuel for the fire NZ Herald today

"A consortium of high profile Wellington business people are ready and
waiting to take over the Phoenix if Terry Serepisos sells up.

Wellington City Councillor John Morrison is unwilling to confirm names,
but says the group is ready and Football Federation Australia is in the
loop.

Morrison says the FFA knows there are significant backers, ready to step in.

Morrison says everyone knows Serepisos is in trouble, but everyone wants to see the Phoenix continue in Wellington.

I was thinking, why don't these well to do business people invest now and for the five years they are prepared to commit too. It will get us past a new TV deal and set up the Phoenix nicely. However, as previously discussed, Terry has probably been financing the Phoenix with loans and these businessmen will probably only step in if the Phoenix went bankrupt and basically start the Phoenix from scratch. Along the lines of NQF and a whole host of La Liga teams

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

I was wondering if the Cr John Morrison was the same as the Cricketer/commentator?

"Sharing rewards the weak"- Steven Colbert

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

Doloras wrote:

or are they just going to get bored and sell out as soon as they realise they don't make any money?

It's been pretty well documented that Nix has been losing money throughout its short history, so it's reasonable to assume they'll be aware they wouldn't be making money from this.

At least in the short term anyway.

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

Traitor wrote:

I was wondering if the Cr John Morrison was the same as the Cricketer/commentator?

Yes, that's him. He was pretty craptacular as a cricketer, though. Still want to know if he's any relation to Rob Morrison (or his brother, the Infratil CEO Lloyd Morrison).

Just so there's no misunderstanding, this is IMHO a Good Thing if these guys actually mean it, but I would hate if they had to move in before the end of the season.Doloras2011-08-31 14:00:14

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

Traitor wrote:

I was wondering if the Cr John Morrison was the same as the Cricketer/commentator?

Yes.

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

Doloras wrote:

Well, I must say that I approve of Rob Morrison for his involvement in Pure Advantage. But I still think it stinks that bad news becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and that people are such bandwagon jumpers.

I'm buying my season ticket tomorrow.

Not sure exactly what you mean by this but there is nothing that anyone on here can or could do to influence Terry's debts/liquidity

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

hepatitis wrote:

Doloras wrote:

bad news becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy

Not sure exactly what you mean by this

1. Terry is in financial trouble.
2. The Nix may therefore have trouble covering their operating costs.
3. The Nix's future is therefore in doubt.
4. People don't buy season tickets.
5. Repeat from step 2.

If, on the other hand, people responded to the trouble by buying more season tickets, Terry's money troubles wouldn't matter at all to the Nix's future because it would be self-supporting.Doloras2011-08-31 14:09:46

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

Doloras wrote:

If, on the other hand, people responded to the trouble by buying more season tickets, Terry's money troubles wouldn't matter at all to the Nix's future because it would be self-supporting.

We'd need to sell a helluva lot more season tickets than we ever have for the Nix future to be self-supporting.

But agree in principle, the ONE way Nix fans can help during the difficult financial times is to buy the season tickets rather than sitting on their arse waiting to see what happens. And I agree with Feverish, if this gives such people a bit more certainty and makes them more likely to buy the season tickets, then it can't be a bad thing.el grapadura2011-08-31 14:14:29

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

I was wondering if the Cr John Morrison was the same as the Cricketer/commentator?

"Sharing rewards the weak"- Steven Colbert

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

el grapadura wrote:

Traitor wrote:

I was wondering if the Cr John Morrison was the same as the Cricketer/commentator?

Yes.

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

el grapadura wrote:

Doloras wrote:

If, on the other hand, people responded to the trouble by buying more season tickets, Terry's money troubles wouldn't matter at all to the Nix's future because it would be self-supporting.

We'd need to sell a helluva lot more season tickets than we ever have for the Nix future to be self-supporting.

1) Love the concept of a new group being able to fund it should Terry fail, but the man shouldn't get booted out after pouring a lot in.

2) Doloras/EG any idea on volume of season ticket holders required to keep the club covering itself?

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

Read the troll Burgess's smarmy, crocodile-tears spin on it. LOLs to be had in the comments, note the knitting-circle representative at #11.

brumbys: there's no way Terry can be booted out against his will except by the FFA. The FFA have been very happy with Terry's ownership by now and would not do so except in cases of extreme last resort.Doloras2011-08-31 14:22:00

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

Quick calculation

Losses 1M per year, season ticket $197, need 5076 additional members (ie more than current membership) to negate that loss

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

hepatitis wrote:

Quick calculationLosses 1M per year, season ticket $197, need 5076 additional members (ie more than current membership) to negate that loss

Isn't the season ticket a bit more than that - $250 for silver membership (think that's what I paid)? Plus there would be people paying for gold membership which costs even more.

Even so, a significant increase in membership sales would be necessary.

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

Remember also that in a couple of years they are renegotiating the TV deal which will mean a sizeable jump in revenues, or so I'm led to believe. In that case, the question of keeping the Nix alive is a short-term rather than a long-term one.

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

el grapadura wrote:

hepatitis wrote:

Quick calculationLosses 1M per year, season ticket $197, need 5076 additional members (ie more than current membership) to negate that loss

I think hepatitis is quoting AUD$Bullion2011-08-31 14:32:35

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

Doloras wrote:

Remember also that in a couple of years they are renegotiating the TV deal which will mean a sizeable jump in revenues, or so I'm led to believe.

Well, the TV deal is going to be incredibly important for the entire league, not just the Nix.

How that is negotiated will be one of the critical factors in creating the A-league longish term viability.

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

Bullion wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

hepatitis wrote:

Quick calculationLosses 1M per year, season ticket $197, need 5076 additional members (ie more than current membership) to negate that loss

I think hepatitis is quoting AUD$

Yes I was, taking it off the comparison of membership prices in another thread, so it will be less than that in effect.

Several will be pensioner and student memberships at 155, so randomly taking 3 silver, 1 gold, 1 pension and 1 student as the average mix, the membership ave is 230, which means 4347 more needed to cover 1M

Maths, I love it

hepatitis2011-08-31 14:45:54

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

el grapadura wrote:

Doloras wrote:

If, on the other hand, people responded to the trouble by buying more season tickets, Terry's money troubles wouldn't matter at all to the Nix's future because it would be self-supporting.

Agreed.

Not buying a season ticket because you are worried the Nix might fail is a stupid self-fulfilling prophesy.

But if this news gives people the perception of more certainty then great.

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

hepatitis wrote:

Bullion wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

hepatitis wrote:

Quick calculationLosses 1M per year, season ticket $197, need 5076 additional members (ie more than current membership) to negate that loss

I think hepatitis is quoting AUD$

The benefit of the club selling lots of season tickets isn't so much that it's increasing the total number of ticket sales over a season. In fact, it's a fair argument that season ticket sales actually just cannibalise game-by-game sales. The real benefit is in having the cashflow early on in the season, and cashflow, as they say, is king.

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

So Morrison's back-up plan is five businessmen putting in $400k each per season over 5 years.

Any thoughts on the pros and cons of moving from a single-owner to multi-owner model?

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

hepatitis wrote:

Quick calculationLosses 1M per year, season ticket $197, need 5076 additional members (ie more than current membership) to negate that loss

Alright, so ultimately you get yourself a fan base of 6k, with an additional 10k in walk ups each week and you're making money.

Personally I think that's not unrealistic with good results on the pitch, a few more exhibition matches around the country, and some more proactive marketing.

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

I fail to see how this is anything but great news for the Nix.

No-one is pushing Terry out, but if we pulls the pin, we have a credible plan b.
Interesting question about moving to multiple owners though. Personally I don't think its ideal, but definitely better than nothing, and also better than a whole heap of shareholder owners (as per the first idea for the Phoenix IIRC). If this does happen, the key would be to have a strong CEO to liaise between the 5. Would Greenham stay if Terry wasn't involved?

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

terminator_x wrote:

So Morrison's back-up plan is five businessmen putting in $400k each per season over 5 years.

Any thoughts on the pros and cons of moving from a single-owner to multi-owner model?

Picking a coach could be interesting. With Terry as owner, Iï¿½d be very surprised if he ever sacked Ricki. But if youï¿½ve got 5 owners, and 3 of them support the coach and the other donï¿½t, then it youï¿½ve got a clusterf**k

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

2ndBest wrote:

terminator_x wrote:

So Morrison's back-up plan is five businessmen putting in $400k each per season over 5 years.

ï¿½

Any thoughts on the pros and cons of moving from a single-ownerï¿½to multi-owner model?

ï¿½

Picking a coach could be interesting.ï¿½ With Terry as owner, Iï¿½d be very surprised if he ever sacked Ricki.ï¿½ But if youï¿½ve got 5 owners, and 3 of them support the coach and the other donï¿½t, then it youï¿½ve got a clusterf**k<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

I believe that the FFA prefer the Multi Owner set up as it means that it's less likely to have to step in should one or two of the owners decide to call it a day.

C-Diddy2011-08-31 15:31:12

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

It's doesn't hurt to have a backup option. I thought there would be something viable, I mean the various Wellington city and regional councils probably make more than $1 million a year from the phoenix, but it is nice to hear it confirmed.

The math on the season tickets is sadly probably wrong. Although ticktek fees are not included in that, a sizeable chunk goes to the stadium, so the phoenix does not get all of that money.

Overall this is great news IMO. Should help the recruitment as there is added certainty for players that the club will not suddenly fold.

rjmiller2011-08-31 15:34:47

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

Surprised nobody has suggested it yet but $400k divided by $250 (The price of a Season Ticket) = 1600 "Owners"

Therefore, Members could have up to 20% stake in the Club...

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

2ndBest wrote:

terminator_x wrote:

So Morrison's back-up plan is five businessmen putting in $400k each per season over 5 years.

Any thoughts on the pros and cons of moving from a single-owner to multi-owner model?

Not really, thats a 3-2 vote. If it was a six member board you run into troubles. In fact it could be argued that having more than one persons opinion on matters could be beneficial.

However this is all strictly backup. Terry founded it, and as far as I am concerned is his to keep as long as he can and he wants.

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