Phoenix Ownership - Rob says FTFFA

Point is they need a new line on this because he's not getting whatever message he is trying to deliver across at all, plus this story keeps going when there's absolutely nothing new to see here

The last North Shore based A League team worked out well.

And constantly coming out with statements like that doesn't achieve that goal. Hell it even makes me wonder why I bother supporting a team that doesn't appreciate the support it does get here. 

Statements like that in public achieve absolutely nothing and only alienates fans and turns them away. 

Once again it shows how out of touch these guys are with what it actually means to be a football supporter.

I might be naïve, but I'm not going to read too much into an article written by a cricket/rugby report. Never can tell what quotes are used and not.

We are a staunchly proud club with amazing fans. We would like bigger crowds, but know we have to earn it. This isnt about our fans #fireup

— Wellington Phoenix (@WgtnPhoenixFC) October 14, 2014

yeah you might be right. 

But it's not exactly the first time similar things have been said. 

Edit: I was going to say if it is the case then you'd think the club should come out with some sort of reassuring statement, and I see above that they have. That makes me feel a bit more warm and fuzzy inside. 

Should thundersticks be doing some of these interviews?

Again I might be naïve, but don't think these kind of statements are directed at the people who turn up. It's about trying to highlight to those who sometimes go, that if you don't bother on a regular, you may never get the chance again. As we have seen with GCU (sure it's an extreme case). So don't take it for granted.

I'm not gonna take it personally. But can understand if other people do.

very sceptical of two articles in 3 days talking about Phoenix crowds when it is a cross the board issue with all sports in Wellington. The lions averaged 3,000 people this season.

and that was clearly an inflated figure too. 

You had a graph that showed we've actually had incredibly consistent crowds across our 7 years while lions and canes are in the decline. Yet they always write about the nix crowds being low.

Part of that may be that our owners etc have been speaking out in the past and are quite vocal about needing 10k and taking games away. Whereas rugby tend to keep it quiet at hope nobody notices. 

Guess problem for us is there still is a 'kick them out' factor given we are in the A-league. Lions and Canes not in the same position no matter how low the crowds get.

Valid point re Thundersticks. If I was in marketing, I have just seen my GM stall momentum in getting more bums on seats. Surely she should be fronting these interviews or at least putting the words in Domes' mouth for him to say?

I look at the recent thing with the Microsoft CEO and what he said around women should trust the system around pay. I am sure in his mind, he knew what he meant but when it comes out, he just sounded like a complete fool. You never get a second chance to make a first impression and this 'you must turn up or we will fuck off' is really just wearing thin and is a redux. Casual fans will just give it the bird and watch on TV for free.

The reality for us is our licence expires after next season so if something doesn't change there's a very real chance (for all we know) we'll lose our team... yes there are clearly factors against us (kick-off times, general kiwi apathy, on-field performance, weather) but the bottom line is from the FFA perspective, if there is no clear point/benefit in having a Kiwi team in their league, they'll quite possibly choose not to have one (us).

What's appearing in the media is possibly skewed in it's reporting (ie: selective quotes, excessive pessimism) or possibly not, but the fact remains that Welnix can (and should) be very much on the front foot with this issue. The odd tweet is great but sometimes you need to be seen to make more of an effort - and/or give more of a sh!t, show people you care (even though we know you do - it's not always enough) and they're more likely to get alongside you than watch from the sidelines.

If the average/onlywhenwerewinning punter is predominantly exposed to the pessimistic view and the (potential) negative outcome in the media, they're more likely to become disengaged as they aren't as invested in the club as most/all of us on here are, and may not be aware of the bigger picture.

COYN!

For all we know the reason Welnix abandoned the stadium plan was that they knew that there was a high chance that they wouldn't get an extension.

it's a stitch up from a rugby journo to deflect from rugby crowds. 

Someone on Twitter said that those reading the article will see it as a threat and the nix Twitter responded "that's quality journalism" which basically shows that they think it's a stitch up too. 

I think the extension thing is a bit of a smoke screen to be honest. I don't think its as big an issue as others make out. Yes Welnix need certainty for the sponsors and contracted players but I understand how this is a process - one that you would like to think board are driving hard to get resolved sooner rather than later.

Jeez guys the hard time some of you give Welnix is amazing. 

Read between the lines a bit.  They are negotiating a licence extension and the FFA are putting the heat on them for crowd and TV numbers.  They have clearly said this is not about the core fans, it's about getting the "on the margin" punters turning up.  And they recognise that a winning team nearer the top of the table is key to that.  But sure, they are also looking at the Auckland market. 

This is not solely about crowd numbers, but also trying to build a broader TV following.  As others have said, I thought the article was fairly clear - Wellington based, maybe three games in Auckland if it delivers the numbers.  If those three games in Auckland get more following on TV through the season, that will be important.

FFA don't want a 4,000 fan base in Wellington, with Welnix covering all costs; that is not what FFA are looking for from NZ.  They want a strong sports following and a stronger TV rights negotiating position.   Right now NZ is not delivering. And right now is the opportunity for FFA to put the heat on us.

These guys are doing it for Wellington with serious cash and personal time.  FFA are no easy mugs.  I'd give Welnix more support than criticism right now.

I am still banking on their strategy of playing more entertaining football, focus on attracting and paying for a coach that they believe will deliver the sort of game and performances that people want to watch, building their home grown talent through the academy and reserves side, and clever recruitment to do the business for us.  We are only just into year two of that plan and much of the underpinning work is done. 

If the team gels, our young imports start to shine, the Rufers and Boxalls start coming through and playing well, over time, then this may all just be a speed bump in the road; just some appropriate heat from the FFA to make sure Welnix are focused on getting the support levels up as part of the license negotiation. 

I certainly hope so.

And yeh, I am guessing Domey was ambushed by a journo with an agenda, on the back of Cockerills fairly obvious but different agenda.

What I don't understand is why there are significantly more people in Wellington prepared to pay $200+ to play 18 games of football a season. Capital Football effectively has more "season ticket holders" than the Nix. Wtf is that about? What is so different about those two offerings in terms of a willingness to commit? Then there's all the people who support an EPL (or some other overseas) team but who don't support the Nix. I just don't get it.

If they haven't done it already this is two groups the Nix seriously need to survey to find out what's going on: Wellington based football players and followers who don't attend Nix games (and there's probably a big overlap between the two). Why don't they come, and what would it take to get them to?

Care to elaborate?

Think that needs to be a long term goal to change. 

Targeting Juniors - get players along to do a coaching session with junior teams once a season, go around schools 

work closely with clubs -have an attendance at club days and prizegivings. 

Have the nix push club football during the winter season - encourage nix players still around to try to get to club games (junior or senior) when they can (though understand it is their offseason so may not want to, and most aren't even in wellington - hence "encourage")

I don't think the club apathy is a quick fix. There are a lot who scoff at the nix because they've played against them in preseason or trained with them so think they're above going to watch them (not quite the right way to put it, but hopefully you know what I mean).

Which is why I propose solving the problem from the bottom up and target juniors, while also improving relationships with clubs by being more active in engaging with them. 

Can't remember the precise figure, but at the member's night they said they had done more community hours in the offseason than ever before. Think it was by some margin too.

thundersticks seems to know what she is doing. 

Just need to give it time to work. 

I'm not really talking about doing more community work anyway (which I agree has been a good effort already).

I'm talking about investing in properly surveying two key target audiences for the Nix:

1. People who are prepared to make a financial commitment to playing football for a season (effectively buying a season ticket) but who won't make the same commitment to watching the Nix live, despite an obvious interest in football.

2. People who support/watch an overseas football team (possibly including making a financial commitment to Sky/PLP) but who won't make the same commitment to watching the Nix live.

Why won't they come? What would it take to make them come?

Is it wrong if I use the word elitist?

I also think Welnix should be much more public advocates for a 2nd A-League franchise in NZ, probably Auckland.

The average Joe (and maybe even media) would probably assume they would be against it, but they should be pointing out the benefits in terms of crowds (local derbies, proper Grrrivals), TV, media interest etc.

Auckland has been ballsed up before but the very existence of the Nix creates a template and leverage that vastly increase the chances of success if done right.

Even just talking about it would make great copy for the papers and help join the dots for the general public, make the whole A-League concept seem more exciting.

That's what I think needs to be unpicked. There might be the seeds of a completely different marketing strategy in there somewhere.

I was hoping the Football United tour (and results) might have debunked some of that but maybe not. Maybe it's just early days. Maybe Welnix need to bring more EPL sides out in future and reinforce the association of the Phoenix with that level of football.

I wasn't serious.

guess people will always come back with 'it was just a friendly'

I am. Fucking EPL snobs.

Support your local team as well!

1. winning football

2. a marquee/excitement machine

3. rivalry/dealing to dorklanders

4 some buzz like this man provided

As long as he doesnt owe you money ....

I agree, though that sort of stance will turn away potential fans.

discerning taste is what they would like to think

When the Phoenix first came to Wellington, I was excited. As a long time player and follower of the EPL and of the mighty Dover Athletic, it was nice to have a local team again. What we got was a gimmick served in a bowl 5 times too big.

There is a need to attract fans Wellington wide, and you can harp on about Yellow Fever or other hardcore fans, but they will mostly stick around regardless. To be successful as a not only a new club, but really, a new professional sport for the Wellington region is to capture the imagination of the 'maybes'.

• Results. Fork out, get the marquee signings and then aim for some return on investment, not the other way around. It's a risk for the owners but if they wanted a sure thing, don;t buy a football team. (p.s. Ifill isn't marquee, Smeltz isn't marquee etc. etc.)

• Change the attitude of the hardcore fans toward the fair weather fans (i'm guessing this was just a small section and await the abuse with baited breath. The final act of alienation I felt was coming along to a finals game and hearing a chorus of 'where were you when we were shit?' from the Fever Zone. I've just come to support the team and the city and see a spectacle and who knows, maybe convert a part-timer to a full-timer. Opportunity lost.

• The football is woeful, simply woeful. I thought I'd give it a shot on Sunday, see how they looked after all the hype. Terrible is how after the longest pre-season known to mankind! Playing in close areas, hoping to dribble through players and get a lucky bounce or players not coming to meet the ball. They looked lazy, uninspiring and devoid of ideas.

Despite this, I would still give it a try this season but the above is compounded by making the day pretty difficult. There are people (like me) who will make the trip IF it's easy for them, the families who know their kids likely won't get home and settled the night before school until 8 - 9 pm if they rely on public transport or those who aren't interested in the pre-game/post-game pub culture. 

• The public transport is rubbish, despite being close to the train station, the timings of trains and buses are too erratic.

• Parking is available but at $30?!?! Are you kidding. You want me to pay $25 odd for a ticket, plus more for the kids and the food AND then pay more to park than to watch the game? 

There. Fire away.

Yup, pretty much.

Am I a wine snob if I prefer mine in a bottle than a cask?

Good post t_x.

The caveat is however that the 'if" is very large.

Welnix have given the club 5 years to become sustainable and we aren't quite there yet.  I would think that any would be Dorknix consortium members would be waiting to see how Welnix fares over the full five years before jumping into a risky venture.

Either that or they need to be prepared to fund a loss-making business for a long time.

I actually don't think so.. FFA want a 12 team competition and they want a team in NZ... what they want is for the potential to start to turn into actual...

FFA also want some base figures in memberships, crowds and TV ratings... I would also add decent stadiums and better game day experiences across all clubs.

The Nix are a very well managed club, have very smart owners who seem determined to make it work..

My reading of the tea leafs is FFA and increasingly the owners are open to looking for the best location in NZ... Gallop is already on the record a number of times wanting teams in population centres of millions not hundreds of thousands ...

I don't necessarily  think the owners are pushing things to far ... more just saying what is ... 

I have no idea of where it is all heading but at least its out in the open and not from behind closed doors... 

The ground issue is just as bad up here as in Wellington, ie. Eden Pk too big, too expensive, Nth Harbour too peripheral, Mt Smart tied up and being run-down, Western Springs perfect if done up but that's not gonna happen... apart from all the other issues concerning commitment and money and risk...