Phoenix Ownership - Rob says FTFFA

I think Gareth is irked that they didn't ask any questions, just ran with a story purely of conjecture and followed up with an opinion piece based on that original article.

And I think it is fair that Gareth looks at how the Phoenix are portrayed in the local media, it is one of the biggest drivers of opinion on the Phoenix.

And, IMHO, for the past 2 to 3 years I would say they have been mostly critical or negative in their coverage relating to on field performance and off field issues. I would say the only time they are outwardly positive is when the Phoenix have been getting negative press in Australia and their NZ inferiority complex reflex comes to the fore.

Yeh, you'd think a journalist on noticing somehthing they hadn't expected would go and ask the suspect "What are you doing at training?"

you have missed the point

Thanks Gareth....like a little ray of sunshine you have illuminated my day.

I like the fact that it was Chotey, Hickey, Ricki and a few board members who worked together and by consensus decided that to get the club from finishing mid table to winning the comp was going to take an adjustment in style and that it would take time. Kind of explains Ricki's earlier comments about the evolving process of style.

Would it be against Forum Rules if I said that with a few notable exceptions many media people are scumbags?

 Nope.  Feel free.

I can tell this is meant too. There are no smiley or winky emoticons or characters. 

(attention to detail)

 Wow how the worm turns,careful some of you guys there isnt enough space on Gareths butt for all those kisses.

How do I put this nicely - I think this is an after the fact explanation for what has become an enormous c0ck-up?  If we changed style in the summer our recruitment was way off and it wasn't at all evident in the first couple of years.  If we changed style half-way through the year then there were some very mixed messages flying around

So JD, on the WTF? scale would you rate this situation as a greater or lesser WTF? than Toronto's appointment of Ryan Nelsen?

Honestly, I know absolutely nothing about that situation but conceptually, appointing an un retired player as coach seems pretty weird to me.

Not sure we should be using other basket case clubs to make ourselves feel better (unless there is some link here and I've missed it?)

Gareth is covering his ass if you ask me.
You would think that they would learn from watching NZC that they are best to stop bullshitting and just come straight out.

OMG! I thought you had an opinion on everything!!

I do think it demonstrates that the Phoenix is not an island of stupidity in an otherwise tranquil ocean of common sense. In fact, in the world of football stoopid we are still pretty lame.
 

What is he not saying then .... 

Thats the thing, who bloody knows.

I find it rather odd that he is not involved in the committee that decides on the playing style, he is not involved in the decision around the implementation of it. It begs the question, what does he know, yet he is the first person to drop the 'total football' phrase in the media where its the first the players have heard of it too. He then says this was planned for this for the start of this year.

Either he is a moron (unlikely), genuinely clueless (which is dangerous from an owner) or he is covering.

 When you said he was bullshitting I thought you knew something to back it up, to support the "facts" that you have been spouting in recent days, but it seems you dont

I dont agree with your conclusions on him

You're right, it doesn't add up. It's just multiplying confusion, subtracting from our enjoyment of the season and causing a deep division amongst the fans.

You are entitled to. At least I backed up my position based on logic and what Gareth has written...
Whats your excuse?

I'd also add: What facts? I certain spout an opinion and back up how I came to it.

I've asked Gareth on his blog whether he regrest his interview with Veitch where he went public about the "change in style"

 Looks like Gareth has taken that story down.

Edit:Now it is back.

I wonder how the other owners feel about all the public discussion? If it's all gone through the right channels and had sign off etc I guess they wouldn't mind but if Morgan is just doing stuff on the run then I can imagine it will get seriously annoying.

Oh Lauren.  After all the years!

("the Iraq" - this is why we need more beauty pageants. For world peace and stuff)

as an aside, perhaps the owners need to remember what this club was built upon, in Piney's article on Lia's 100th game he says

"Wellington Phoenix FC wasn’t built on flair and flashiness. It sits on a firm foundation of commitment and hard work. All that’s asked of the players as they exit the tunnel onto the A-League’s playing arenas is a pledge to do everything in their power to make life difficult for their opponents and to produce a collective effort in the quest for competition points. When Vinnie Lia’s team-mates catch a glimpse of the number seventeen shirt in the heat of battle, they know its owner will be doing exactly that"

 

 

Sounds like an opposition party in Parliament. Like to think we bring more than that.

Gareth replied to you in the comment section -- so he reads this forum, hope he has thick skin.

His reply "I was also looking at the Yellow Fever Forum this morning and someone asked, "I wonder how the other owners feel about all this discussion?" To answer that question - If anybody knows me they know I have always been transparent and run firms with high transparency, frank discussion and am afraid of no question that the questioner has a right to know. This is not everyone’s style but it’s mine and it’s never been any different in 33 years of public engagement. And having always been like that it should hardly be a surprise except to those who don’t know me. These people are more comfortable reading journos’ made up stories no matter how crap they are. My blog is the avenue for direct discussion on all the issues I get involved in."

I think it's great that Gareth has been giving some pretty straightforward answers on his blog. This is certainly the most open I can remember anybody involved with the Phoenix being with the fans (including Tony P, who was on here a bit but never went into any great depth).

I'm still not sure I understand completely how this all went down but hey, it's history now. We just all need to do whatever we can to put it right.

Any one remember right back at the beginning of the season Ricki said this was going to be a transition year, without clarifying what he meant....and everyone went, "WTF is he talking about".

Maybe he meant that this was the  transitioning of our play to a more attacking passing style. If this was the case then if he had mentioned that at the time it would have saved all this hassle.

Why the style transition was not generally mentioned(to the players as well) we can only speculate. Maybe it was to be a real gradual change or maybe they did not want to make a big deal out of it to avoid "Nix to play like Barcelona" headlines which would have just added more  pressure.

By the way...with some notable exceptions many media people are scumbags!

Ricky's pre-season statement, and it was in the week leading up to our first home game, started this whole thing. Took the fire out of every football/potential spectator around my circles. Andrew Durante went public with a "disappointed if we didn't challenge for the title" story straight away. But for many, the damage was done. The DomPost and TV, quite rightly picked up on it. Crowd turned up for the first game (2-nil v Sydney) which was great. Next home game Herbert backs off the Roar, who were clearly way off their former self under KP. We attacked for 25 mins, no goals, and then were happy to to back and let them have their turn to attack. They scored, we managed an equaliser, and again were so conservative. happy to take a point. It was bizarre. For the 5 to 10 thousand who are not coming right now, they just see same old/same old. Wellington just want us to seriously challenge for this thing, and you can't do that sitting back defending at home.

However I really hope this fiasco works out for RH and the players, and they just get back to being themselves on the pitch. 

Like that Oz independent fan said in a comment on 442. There's nothing more entertaining and exciting as winning. Doesn't matter how you do it. Germany have been playing direct stuff for years, still do, and virtually beat everyone on the planet more often than not.

The media are just doing their jobs. The debate is healthy, and was much needed. Lot more people talking about the Phoenix in town now. Six weeks ago, no-one was talking about them. Thousands of people have been made redundant in this town in last year. Thousands more to come. No-one in Wn could relate to a coach who seemed to have a job for life, and simply didn't seem accountable for anything. Now I think, that may have changed       

 

   

 

 

 

Germany have changed their style of play in a very significant way in the last 8 years or so.

JN Q: Hi Gareth, given your answers to Patrick regarding the fact that a change in style was a decision made by Ricki, the board and the owners together, do you think it was a mistake to give the interview to Tony Veitch you refer to above, which implied that the stylistic changes had come from the top and was being imposed mid-season?

I know you're saying this is evolution rather than revolution but at best the message that's been put out to the media on this issue is mixed, and has completely muddied the waters regarding what is acceptable regarding performances. The media cannot all be blamed for this.

Is RH being judged as a coach on his ability to win football matches, or to coach the team in a style that suits your image of the club? And considering he appears to be failing at both right now, what in your mind constitutes success and failure this year and will individuals within the Phoenix be held account

GM A: Thanks for the question Jonathan.

The interview with Tony covered a whole range of things Phoenix and remember it wasn’t live so Tony decided to highlight one aspect of the talk, the issue of style – which is the journo’s prerogative with a recorded interview and the interviewee knows that beforehand. From memory when he asked what we thought of the performance in the last game, were we gutted to lose, I replied of course (you’re always gutted to lose, who on earth get’s off on losing?), but I said I wasn’t sure whether many had picked up that this season we had begun to play a different style etc etc. The inference being that we might expect bumps along that road. Then the media picked it up as though it was some new dawn and off we go. I’m amazed not more football journos had already seen and reported on that – with the injection of Fenton, Totori, Boyd etc, dropping Bertos back and so on. Certainly some had but there aren’t that many around, far fewer than there are gossip columnists prancing around as wannabe sports journos and looking to invent stories if they can’t extract one from facts.

There are no mixed messages – we are on the road to a different style, we’d love to get there making the playoffs along the way of course, the reality will be whatever happens. For the players, their focus week to week is to win, to take whatever instructions the coach has given for that week and just do it. Take last week – neither goal conceded was a result of the playing style, they were simple cock-ups or failed execution by those involved. The first half of that game and the one the week before was fantastic – any serious observer of the game would see that see that our players are bloody good professionals. Such observers should be intrigued by what’s evolving and be fascinated week to week by what the players are doing. Those whose interest goes only so far as instant gratification each match won’t be capable or interested in this process.

Regards one’s views at the end of the season to the position on the league table – of course we want to be as high as we can and success will only be winning the thing. Until we win it it’s all work in progress. If you’re asking me personally would I regard making the playoffs a success – the answer personally is no. It would simply be a measure of how far the work in progress has advanced.

Can’t really see any of this is that hard to get your nut around.

I was also looking at the Yellow Fever Forum this morning and someone asked, "I wonder how the other owners feel about all this discussion?" To answer that question - If anybody knows me they know I have always been transparent and run firms with high transparency, frank discussion and am afraid of no question that the questioner has a right to know. This is not everyone’s style but it’s mine and it’s never been any different in 33 years of public engagement. And having always been like that it should hardly be a surprise except to those who don’t know me. These people are more comfortable reading journos’ made up stories no matter how crap they are. My blog is the avenue for direct discussion on all the issues I get involved in.

I think that is all very self - serving and lacks much self awareness/criticism.  This was my favourite part - being lectured on football by football visionary Gareth Morgan (TM):

"The first half of that game and the one the week before was fantastic – any serious observer of the game would see that see that our players are bloody good professionals. Such observers should be intrigued by what’s evolving and be fascinated week to week by what the players are doing. Those whose interest goes only so far as instant gratification each match won’t be capable or interested in this process."