Wellington Phoenix Men

Player rantings v Roar

43 replies · 622 views
over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Player rantings v Roar

Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
pffffft
Pasty 8 Two super saves
Manny 6.5 Did well
Siggy 6.5 Did well too
Dura 6 Was having a terrific game till he charged out and left Costa to score
Lochie 6 Defended well, poor crosses
Leo 5 Non existent most of time
Timmy 5 ditto
Lia 6 Poor passes to start with but shut out a lot of attacks
Ifill 5.5 Little impact except for a couple of lovely touches
Greenie 6 worked hard
Big Mac 6 ditto
Pavlov 6 Realy tried hard to make something happen, almost did
Troy 5 poor crosses
Daniel why on earth didn't he get on for Leo????
 
Whaddya reckon?
 
 

Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tsk...copycat.
 
Can threads be merged on here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Oi Oi's job Steve-O
 
agree with the pffffft
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Ok here's mine, I will delete my thread...I now see there's another thread of this though!
 
Paston 8 - made some decent saves to keep us in it
Muscat 6 - didn't do too much wrong, didn't really get forward too much
Lochhead 6 - see Muscat comment
Sigmund 6 - will be replaced by North soon...
Durante 7 - pretty assured as usual, take him out the current defence and we are in trouble
Lia 4 - woeful distribution all night
Brown 4 - invisible for the 3rd game running
Bertos 3 - another who was MIA. Should be doing a lot more and putting more effort in
Ifill 5 - not involved really, missed a good chance, albeit via a good save, stupid booking
Greenacre 6 - not convinced this new position is really for him
McAllister 7 - did ok, but personally thought he looked knackered at the point he went off
 
Subs -
Pavlovic 6 - did not bad, almost scored what would've been a cracker
Hearfield 3 - waste of time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
Ok here's mine, I will delete my thread...I now see there's another thread of this though!
�

Paston 8 - made some decent saves to keep us in it
Muscat 6 - didn't do too much wrong, didn't really get forward too much

Lochhead 6 - see Muscat comment

Sigmund 6 - will be replaced by North soon...

Durante 7 - pretty assured as usual, take him out the current defence and we are in trouble

Lia 4 - woeful distribution all night

Brown 4 - invisible for the 3rd game running

Bertos 3 - another who was MIA. Should be doing a lot more and putting more effort in

Ifill�5 - not involved really, missed a good chance, albeit via�a good save, stupid booking

Greenacre 6 - not convinced this new position is really for him

McAllister 7 - did ok, but personally thought he looked knackered at the point he went off

�

Subs -

Pavlovic 6 - did not bad, almost scored what would've been a cracker

Hearfield 3 - waste of time


These look pretty good to me. I'd be pulling Dura down a point as he was dragged out of position for the goal and don't think Brown was any better than Bertos so 3 for him as well.

Would have loved to rate Daniel but for some reason he did not get on!
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Bump Bertos down to a 2.  I know people often give a 1 or a 2 in exaggeration of a poor performance but I genuinely think he was a 2.  Lia was a 3.5.  And both should consider themselves lucky if they don't get dropped out of the plane into the desert on the way over to Perth.  I wonder if Bertos would be more motivated to find water.  Unlikely.
loyalgunner2010-08-28 00:39:46
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I give Bertos a 1 because the best play by him was running towards Paston. If he didn't do that I'd give him a 0
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It's a strange one with Bertos, because off the field he comes across as a guy who loves the club and what he's doing and wouldn't want it any other way. Yet on the field, he looks like he couldn't give a toss.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
He is lazy, and currently, nothing more than a passenger. Time for him to be dropped and woken up. Resting on his World Cup laurels.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
But it was similar also before the World Cup?
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Well yes I suppose you are right, but he was decent AT the world cup. I guess he's actually been in poor form from about halfway through last season until now for the Phoenix.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
pffffft
Pasty 8 Two super saves
Manny 6.5 Did well
Siggy 4.5 Did well too
Dura 6 Was having a terrific game till he charged out and left Costa to score
Lochie 6 Defended well, poor crosses
Leo 5 Non existent most of time
Timmy 5 ditto
Lia 4 Poor passes to start with but shut out a lot of attacks
Ifill 5.5 Little impact except for a couple of lovely touches
Greenie 6 worked hard
Big Mac 6 ditto
Pavlov 6 Realy tried hard to make something happen, almost did
Troy 5 poor crosses
Daniel why on earth didn't he start before Leo????
 
Whaddya reckon?
 
 


Lia way too high, he struggled in front of the back four and his passing was terrible, Siggy was pretty average as well, whilst Durante charged out which lead to Kosta being free Siggy should have come in to cover, but was too slow.
Thought Ifill's impact was hindered by some poor ball to him, he's way better when the ball gets to him quickly, plus he was marked really heavily last night.


Queenslander 3x a year.

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
pffffft
Dura 6 Was having a terrific game till he charged out and left Costa to score
 
I take issue with this - without the benefit of seeing a reply today my recollection last night was Dura got pulled out of position because there were free Roar players on the edge of the box that no one (i.e. Brown and Lia) closed down.
He dribbles a lot and the opposition dont like it - you can see it all over their faces. (Ron Atkinson)
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
does anyone else think the goal was scored due to a lack of understanding between dura and siggy? Dura should have gone out to cover that guy and siggy should have covered duras man
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
rankings too clustered towards the middle (as a general view)
 
Paston - 8 (9 if it wasnt for his weaker clearances due to injury)
Durante - 8
Sigmund - 5
Muscat - 6
Lochhead - 3
Lia - 2
Brown - 3
Bertos - 3
Ifill - 4
Greenacre - 3
Mcallister - 4
 
Subs
Pavlocvic - 8
Heafield - 3
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
that really was the most fustrating game to watch.
no one played that well, and we just kept giving the ball
away..
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
threat wrote:
does anyone else think the goal was scored due to a lack of understanding between dura and siggy? Dura should have gone out to cover that guy and siggy should have covered duras man
 
Yeah was Dura's only mistake the whole game because he was never going to be able to close that guy down but it was the midfields fault for not tracking their guy forcing dura out of position. If Siggy was world class he would have read the situation and moved across.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
yea paston played well and pav impacted alot more than anyone else
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The football scribes here picked Dura as man of the match.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
that really was the most fustrating game to watch.
no one played that well, and we just kept giving the ball
away..
 
I thought they played better than last week and the Phoenix won that game.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
threat wrote:
does anyone else think the goal was scored due to a lack of understanding between dura and siggy? Dura should have gone out to cover that guy and siggy should have covered duras man


Completely agree, Dura had to go out and cover free players at the top, but Siggy just didn't read this and failed to move across to cover, leaving two unmarked players goal side of him at the top of the box.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Disagree. Durante made a bad error of judgment by pressing the ball in that situation - very disappointing to see our senior centre-back not recognise the situation where he had to stay close to Kosta and not open up a passing lane for a very high percentage goal-scoring opportunity. Instead, he went to press the ball 25 yards away from our goal, and to compound his mistake, didn't even put in a challenge once he realised it would likely result in a foul. Although he shouldn't have rushed out anyway, once he did he simply had to put in challenge, even at the risk of getting a yellow. It was a truly horrendously awful piece of centre-back play.

Siggy coming in cover wouldn't have helped, one man can;t cover all that space and all the available runner. If Siggy moves to get close to Kosta (doubt he would have got there in time at any rate), it would have simply opened up space and a passing lane into our box more centrally, and would have still resulted in a clear goal-scoring opportunity for the Roar.

Overaall, although ideally you'd like to have your midfielders helping out in this type of situation, if you don't have that cover, you have to play the smart option and make it as difficult as possible for the opposition. Don't think that happened last night.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
Disagree. Durante made a bad error of judgment by pressing the ball in that situation - very disappointing to see our senior centre-back not recognise the situation where he had to stay close to Kosta and not open up a passing lane for a very high percentage goal-scoring opportunity. Instead, he went to press the ball 25 yards away from our goal, and to compound his mistake, didn't even put in a challenge once he realised it would likely result in a foul. Although he shouldn't have rushed out anyway, once he did he simply had to put in challenge, even at the risk of getting a yellow. It was a truly horrendously awful piece of centre-back play.

Siggy coming in cover wouldn't have helped, one man can;t cover all that space and all the available runner. If Siggy moves to get close to Kosta (doubt he would have got there in time at any rate), it would have simply opened up space and a passing lane into our box more centrally, and would have still resulted in a clear goal-scoring opportunity for the Roar.

Overaall, although ideally you'd like to have your midfielders helping out in this type of situation, if you don't have that cover, you have to play the smart option and make it as difficult as possible for the opposition. Don't think that happened last night.


Well said totally agree with your assessment.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
Disagree. Durante made a bad error of judgment by pressing the ball in that situation - very disappointing to see our senior centre-back not recognise the situation where he had to stay close to Kosta and not open up a passing lane for a very high percentage goal-scoring opportunity. Instead, he went to press the ball 25 yards away from our goal, and to compound his mistake, didn't even put in a challenge once he realised it would likely result in a foul. Although he shouldn't have rushed out anyway, once he did he simply had to put in challenge, even at the risk of getting a yellow. It was a truly horrendously awful piece of centre-back play.

Siggy coming in cover wouldn't have helped, one man can;t cover all that space and all the available runner. If Siggy moves to get close to Kosta (doubt he would have got there in time at any rate), it would have simply opened up space and a passing lane into our box more centrally, and would have still resulted in a clear goal-scoring opportunity for the Roar.

Overaall, although ideally you'd like to have your midfielders helping out in this type of situation, if you don't have that cover, you have to play the smart option and make it as difficult as possible for the opposition. Don't think that happened last night.


think it was more this...if he was going he had to make the challenge.


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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
give Pav a start, once he settled in he looked bloody good, much more exciting than Leo, give Leo some bench time to think about the match and give the more deserving youngster a start!
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
Overaall, although ideally you'd like to have your midfielders helping out in this type of situation, if you don't have that cover, you have to play the smart option and make it as difficult as possible for the opposition. Don't think that happened last night.


Agree. Lia missing where he needed to be.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The game played out like I had predicted.

From my comment on Piney's blog on 442 last week:
Bullion wrote:
Watching the game against CCM on the weekend, Brown is still bombing forward only leaving Lia in the midfield which makes it so hard for us to play out from the back. Hence lots of long balls and CCM able to pressure Lia and our CBs. At times when our defence had possession, Brown, Greenacre and Macallister were all within about 10m of each other.

Maybe Ricki set it up this way, having Brown, Greenie and Macallister up front would allow us to better compete for possession with all the long balls played forward. Seemed a bit Egil Olsen'ish.

We have an interesting game coming up against Brisbane. Greenacre will have a big role to play as we may need to match Brisbane in midfield to compete for possession. It will be also interesting to see how we deal with Brisbane's full backs pushing so far forward with Brisbane's inside forwards looking to cut in occupying our full backs and creating space for overlapping Brisbane fullbacks. Though with the threat of Ifill on the wings the fullbacks may not push as forward as they did against Sydney. Very interesting tactical game, I am just nervous at our ball retention and options in midfield (which we may bypass like against CCM anyway).
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Bullion that is spot on.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
[QUOTE=el grapadura]
Although he shouldn't have rushed out anyway, once he did he simply had to put in challenge, even at the risk of getting a yellow. It was a truly horrendously awful piece of centre-back play.

QUOTE]
 
Wasn't Durante on a yellow already (for dissent in the 1st half?) in which case we would have been risking a red. Not 100% on this, but that may have played a part in his thinking once he'd charged forward.
 
I'm more inclined to feel upset that McKay(?) was standing just outside the box with about half a field of open space than pinning it all onto Dura.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yep, just checked, he got a yellow some 20 minutes before the goal, so may well have played part in him not making the challenge.

Still doesn't change the reality that he'd made a pretty bad decision.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
well it was Siggie who cocked it up in the corner which lead to the goal.

ffs.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
In the end it wasn't the only defensive lapse in the game, it was just the only one we got punished for.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
Yep, just checked, he got a yellow some 20 minutes before the goal, so may well have played part in him not making the challenge.

Still doesn't change the reality that he'd made a pretty bad decision.
 
Fair enough.
 
I am getting sick of us picking up silly yellows. IIRC we had about 3 for dissent which is just plain stupid and the kind of thing that could come back to haunt us later in the season as our entire midfield starts to pick up suspensions.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I thought the commentary team flattered us by complimenting our direct approach. While I want results first and foremost the style of football Ricki's team's play is pretty average. What sums it up for me is this (and watch in next time we play).
 
We when kick off watch Brown take the ball and pass it to Lochhead. Then watch how he does not offer a return option but just turns his back and heads up field to wait for scraps behind long balls pumped to the front men. This sums up Ricki's style - it relies on having a defence and a front line 50 meteres apart with very fit non ball playing midfielders to break up the opposition play.
 
Brown for me typifies everything that has held NZ football back in the last 20 years. As much as I like the guy (he really is a great spokesman and not an arrogant player at all) I think watching the Nix is not what I want the youngers trying to copy.
 
What do you guys think?? 
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It's not always that plan, but yeh when they do play that way, it's frustrating to watch.
Maybe when or if Toto gets some time threy might play through the midfield more.

Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
tablemanners wrote:
We when kick off watch Brown take the ball and pass it to Lochhead. Then watch how he does not offer a return option but just turns his back and heads up field to wait for scraps behind long balls pumped to the front men. This sums up Ricki's style - it relies on having a defence and a front line 50 meteres apart with very fit non ball playing midfielders to break up the opposition play.
 
Brown for me typifies everything that has held NZ football back in the last 20 years. As much as I like the guy (he really is a great spokesman and not an arrogant player at all) I think watching the Nix is not what I want the youngers trying to copy.
 
What do you guys think?? 


Kind of the anti - Clapham?

I haven't seen too much of Clapham, but isn't that exactly what he offers, holds the ball well, makes space for himself, always wants the ball etc. You couldn't say Brown does any of those things.

Annoyed we didn't sign Clapham, really thought he was worth a place in the squad. I posted on here before the season that  he would be a good squad player and would push for a start as the season went on. (Didn't expect that might be 3 games in...)

Might lose him to a TV career now ...



"You can never get a bloody tradesman at Easter, it's a wonder Jesus got crucified" - Karl Pilkington

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
TableManners, I think that is v fair observation and assessment.
 
Also wanted us to sign Clapham.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
tablemanners wrote:
I thought the commentary team flattered us by complimenting our direct approach. While I want results first and foremost the style of football Ricki's team's play is pretty average. What sums it up for me is this (and watch in next time we play).
 
We when kick off watch Brown take the ball and pass it to Lochhead. Then watch how he does not offer a return option but just turns his back and heads up field to wait for scraps behind long balls pumped to the front men. This sums up Ricki's style - it relies on having a defence and a front line 50 meteres apart with very fit non ball playing midfielders to break up the opposition play.
 
Brown for me typifies everything that has held NZ football back in the last 20 years. As much as I like the guy (he really is a great spokesman and not an arrogant player at all) I think watching the Nix is not what I want the youngers trying to copy.
 
What do you guys think?? 
It may be as you say what has held NZ foottball back for twenty years but I disagree.  You can not expect players who have been brought up on a diet of kick and rush football to suddenly turn into Lionel Messi at the drop of a hat. Personally I think Ricki does very well in adapting sysems to suit the resources at his disposal. We would all like to be able to play like spain, but reality is we can not and will not be able to as long as Junior football is the way it is. The issue starts at six years old not when they get to the age of a senior player in a professional football team.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Im not sure TableManners is saying he expects Brown to try and play a different way or that Herbert is a silly coach, rather its an observation about the way we do play, the style of players we happen to have and a personal view that its not an ideal model for kids to learn from.
 
 
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