Possible replacements for Chiefy

Jessie Merino

LG

Plenty of empty blue seats before kick off. Considering they could wrap up the Toilet seat pretty much today, it should be jam packed. I do laugh at Melbourn City though. We're winning everything and still get crap crowds.

"Nearly a sold-out stadium" - Tom Doyle.

I do think alot of their fans stay around the Lilyworld bar area right up until kick off.

I don’t even know what that means lol

andrewvoerman

wilbaker

Banzai!...AIEEE!!!

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 That seems more accurate for Auckland. I was gonna say having 14k average after selling out multiple games and being 1st the whole year would be a disappointment.

mean versus median

 

Banzai!...AIEEE!!!

I don’t even know what that means lol

andrewvoerman

wilbaker

Banzai!...AIEEE!!!

IMG_0942.png 281.07 KB

 That seems more accurate for Auckland. I was gonna say having 14k average after selling out multiple games and being 1st the whole year would be a disappointment.

mean versus median

 

Mean = If every fans that attended the match were evenly spread across the matches, what would the attendance be?  Worth noting with these means, the number is including Unite Round as a home match

Median = If we ordered all our attendances from largest to smallest, what is the attendance in the middle? This is closer to the number of people you'll actually encounter at a team's match

Mean is super variable and gets lifted massively by any big attendance figure, while the median does not. Adding matches to the season is also more likely to drop the mean than the median.

The most notable thing is for many teams the mean attendance will be better than most of their matches. City's average attendance would be their second best of the year.

It’s less than last year. In pure numbers last year we had 149k bums in the stadium, currently we are at 95k. Not sure how that converts into money for the club. But it‘s also less fish n chips, beers, shirts etc.
Let‘s say a ticket is $25 you sell 30k less that it’s 740k. Just for the tickets. This is super simplified, I‘m just saying having the team playing shark most of the year has consequences. You also have the hurdle to convince people to come back next season, it’s a limited market.

Rob Stanton?

Has done well at the Jets

Ninja

Rob Stanton?

Has done well at the Jets

Think it was the black and yellow pod that had that as a prediction. Swap deal between us and the jets 

Ninja

Rob Stanton?

Has done well at the Jets

I mean has he? 

If we can’t cherry pick Chief’s best games then ditto Stanton’s, and that’s not a team in the finals. They just lost to the last team into the finals.

martinb

Ninja

Rob Stanton?

Has done well at the Jets

I mean has he? 

If we can’t cherry pick Chief’s best games then ditto Stanton’s, and that’s not a team in the finals. They just lost to the last team into the finals.

I'm not sure to be honest.

Guess it shows how desperate it feels at this club. That I see this as a viable option.

martinb

Ninja

Rob Stanton?

Has done well at the Jets

I mean has he? 

If we can’t cherry pick Chief’s best games then ditto Stanton’s, and that’s not a team in the finals. They just lost to the last team into the finals.

Stanton has done well. Over achieved really. It's a very low budget Jets outfit built on young Aussie talent. I don't think they had a single visa player until the January transfer window. And of the visa guys they have bought in Wellissol has been a flop.

Many pundits seemed to be surprised and disappointed for the Newcastle they couldn't work out a solution to keep Stanton.

coochiee

martinb

Ninja

Rob Stanton?

Has done well at the Jets

I mean has he? 

If we can’t cherry pick Chief’s best games then ditto Stanton’s, and that’s not a team in the finals. They just lost to the last team into the finals.

Stanton has done well. Over achieved really. It's a very low budget Jets outfit built on young Aussie talent. I don't think they had a single visa player until the January transfer window. And of the visa guys they have bought in Wellissol has been a flop.

Many pundits seemed to be surprised and disappointed for the Newcastle they couldn't work out a solution to keep Stanton.

Gotta wonder why he want to move to another lowish spending team - or why the club would want a coach from a poor team.

I am not sure why people here expect the club to fork out money for a better coach than Chiefy if the club is not able to fork out money for some older experienced / better / players.  

I can accept some of Chiefy's inexplicable team selections and player positionings if he still has players' respect and if he has a plan how to avoid the disaster season we've just had again.  Overall, he is no worse a coach than Talay if there is a similar quality squad.  Sydney FC has some excellent players this year and yet are barely scraping into the playoffs.

You could argue that a better coach than Chiefy could do more with the players we had this season.    Chiefy did very well with good players last season. He is not able to do the same this season: presumably his tactics require better players (without us getting into a spat here over what "good" or "better" player means).   

I could of course be wrong, but I would argue that a good quality replacement coach would ask for a budget for some good players to replace Sutton, Wootton, and those who left last season (Zawada, Pennington, Kraev), and those we lost for various reasons during this season (Colakovski, Al-Taay, Rojas, Ball).  A good coach would ask for recruitment to support the kids currently on the park, and able to execute his game plan. And he would do that as a condition of coming here, if he is a decent coach.    For that reason I am more interested in the budget the club will have next season (and how the drop in gate takings affected it) than who will be coaching the club.

theprof

coochiee

martinb

Ninja

Rob Stanton?

Has done well at the Jets

I mean has he? 

If we can’t cherry pick Chief’s best games then ditto Stanton’s, and that’s not a team in the finals. They just lost to the last team into the finals.

Stanton has done well. Over achieved really. It's a very low budget Jets outfit built on young Aussie talent. I don't think they had a single visa player until the January transfer window. And of the visa guys they have bought in Wellissol has been a flop.

Many pundits seemed to be surprised and disappointed for the Newcastle they couldn't work out a solution to keep Stanton.

Gotta wonder why he want to move to another lowish spending team - or why the club would want a coach from a poor team.

Looking at their squads I'd say the Nix would have spent quite a bit more than the Jets. I mean Dome is adamant they spend enough to be dissappointed not to make the top 6. They also have the top class NZCIS setup. The Phoenix throw plenty at off field resourcing.

On the other hand I'd say the Jets are either bottom of the spending pile, or maybe 2nd bottom to the Roar. That's just guessing.

But Stanton it seems has primarily left, because he couldn't get the new Jets owners to spend more, either on players and/or off field resourcing. As a club they have been struggling for a long time, and that seems set to continue. 

Since last making the finals & hosting the GF in 2017/18 under Merrick they have finished 7th, 8th, 11th, 9th, 10th and 10th.

Real progress at last under Stanton, but wouldn't surprise them to drop away again next season, if the new owners ain't willing to spend anything.

Coaching the Nix would be a definite step up the totem pole.

It's an interesting take, Coochiee, I would think Stanton would consider the Nix job just as hard slog as the Jets gig because of the player budget.  As a decent coach he might want to look elsewhere.   But it could be that the other (off-field) investment might be better here at the Nix than at the Jets.   And we have been making the top six more often than the Jets.

Know nothing about the current Jets owners, but Newcastle as a club was only kept alive, by a group other ALM clubs incl the Nix helping with cashflow. That in itself says the Nix are a level above with regards to financial resources.

Don't ever remember an ex Nix coach really having a go at Welnix, for not giving them what they wanted??

If Zadkovich, Zdrilić and Italiano all keep their jobs (as seems likely) shouldn't be much coach movement in the off season? Sounds like Brazilian Airton Andrioli, Adelaide's current assistant coach, is the early frontrunner to replace Carl Veart.

Will Talay be sacked? Stanton coached Sydney FC youth before the Jets. So he'd have to be a chance to replace Uffie if he's gone.

So Stanton is like Chief, but can’t pick imports? 

The owners indicated they were unhappy with the Jets table position. As you’re saying they might never be big spenders after time in the doldrums.

When Chief had a bunch of good young Kiwi players he came 2nd after being first for most of the season. 

I can see there’s a confidence and style improvement in Newcastle, but we were about results I thought? 

And both Talay and Chief were bought in to make us a selling club. And after Talay’s last season, the ownership has lost some interest in splashing cash on the men’s team. Probably coach and ownership understood each other. 

I think the press around Temple’s departure is an example of that? It indicated the women’s set up was comparatively better supported or some such. 

I think as well with Stanton there may be a bit more than we see too. He and ten players in his current squad have the same manager. That’s something of a power block for an owner. 

The Jets's owners have said they are unhappy with their position on the ladder? First I have heard that. They had given Stanton a 2 year extension, until this about face with him leaving.

I thought it was all about he wanted more resources and/or a bigger playing budget, but the owners said no. So he's basically walked?? Made yes more murky by him and a large chunk of players having the same agent.

From memory Stanton's only bought in 2 visa players this season, and one Mizunuma has been a fantastic pickup for them. Your cheapest Brazilians like Wellissol (never before played outside his homeland) can always be a bit hit and miss.

Talay basically came to the Nix, because dodgy 'family man' Marko had some guilt leaving early, and recommended Uffie to the club. Yes both Talay & Chiefy had coached youth teams at Sydney, so maybe that helps at a club like the Phoenix where bringing through your Academy prospects is a big thing.  

coochiee

The Jets's owners have said they are unhappy with their position on the ladder? First I have heard that. They had given Stanton a 2 year extension, until this about face with him leaving.

I thought it was all about he wanted more resources and/or a bigger playing budget, but the owners said no. So he's basically walked?? Made yes more murky by him and a large chunk of players having the same agent.

From memory Stanton's only bought in 2 visa players this season, and one Mizunuma has been a fantastic pickup for them. Your cheapest Brazilians like Wellissol (never before played outside his homeland) can always be a bit hit and miss.

Talay basically came to the Nix, because dodgy 'family man' Marko had some guilt leaving early, and recommended Uffie to the club. Yes both Talay & Chiefy had coached youth teams at Sydney, so maybe that helps at a club like the Phoenix where bringing through your Academy prospects is a big thing.  

It’s how it was reported, though most were pay walled.

Actually it might be mischief making on the part of the publication, err Yahoonews:

With five rounds of the regular season remaining the Jets are in ninth spot and seven points adrift of a finals place, still holding a slim hope of making the play-offs.

But that hasn't been enough for Stanton to satisfy the club's powerbrokers.

There was a lot of reporting about as you said the resources line which it might well have been, Tony Rallis making a few comments and only one publication reported the number of Jets players with him as an agent. 

Which makes me think the resources story is true, but there’s plenty of other things as well still going on behind the scenes because not much has leaked to the papers that I can find in a quick search. 

From what I've heard from Australia, Jets are the lowest spend at around $3m. But there are a bunch of teams in that $3-3.5m range. Basically everyone outside the City, Sydney, WSW, Auckland, and Victory. Sydney and Auckland way out in front in that $6-7m range. 

be good if they released the figures after the season to give a better indication of output v input. 

A list of all A-League mens coaches in the history of coaching being a thing in the A-League

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_A-League_Men_head_coaches

Here are some names. Varying abilities, availability and likeability. Not suggestions, just names:

Carl Veart
Graham Arnold
Rob Stanton
Ross Aloisi (Shanghai Port Assistant)
Michael Valkanis
Mike Mulvey 
Warren Moon
Phil Moss
Luciano Trani (Roar assistant)
Gary van Egmond
Scott Miller
Kenny Lowe
Hayden Foxe (Socceroos Assistant)
Chris Greenacre
Des Buckingham
Andy Hedge
Dave Edmundson (has just left FC Luzern manager role)
Rob Sherman

You're missing Roman!

reg22

Here are some names. Varying abilities, availability and likeability. Not suggestions, just names:

Carl Veart
Graham Arnold
Rob Stanton
Ross Aloisi (Shanghai Port Assistant)
Michael Valkanis
Mike Mulvey 
Warren Moon
Phil Moss
Luciano Trani (Roar assistant)
Gary van Egmond
Scott Miller
Kenny Lowe
Hayden Foxe (Socceroos Assistant)
Chris Greenacre
Des Buckingham
Andy Hedge
Dave Edmundson (has just left FC Luzern manager role)
Rob Sherman

Fair few has beens in there.

Arnold hasnt coached in the league since 2018. Currently with the Aussie team - not sure he'd want or be able to do both.
Veart - is with Adelaide and they are on a 4 game losing streak.
Stanton - do we really want anything the Jets have touched?
R Aloisi - would be a risk bringing him back to the league, but would be fun to welcome him back to the club
Michael Valkanis - currently in Turkey managing there, his team is about to be relegated by the looks of it.
Mike Mulvey - hasnt coached aleague since leaving CCM, 
Moon is with the PNG side, I cant see him leaving,

got bored researching all these, but they all seem like they are either employed in better roles, done it before and werent flash or probably not qualified. None of them seen really inspiring.

Rumours around Sydney FC fans say that if they sack Talay, then Graham Arnold will take over - don't know if thats just wishful thinking from Sydney supporters or if there's anything more to it.

Also don't know if Graham Arnold still has desires to coach after he decided to leave the Socceroos as his heart wasn't in it anymore

theprof

reg22

Here are some names. Varying abilities, availability and likeability. Not suggestions, just names:

Carl Veart
Graham Arnold
Rob Stanton
Ross Aloisi (Shanghai Port Assistant)
Michael Valkanis
Mike Mulvey 
Warren Moon
Phil Moss
Luciano Trani (Roar assistant)
Gary van Egmond
Scott Miller
Kenny Lowe
Hayden Foxe (Socceroos Assistant)
Chris Greenacre
Des Buckingham
Andy Hedge
Dave Edmundson (has just left FC Luzern manager role)
Rob Sherman

Fair few has beens in there.

Arnold hasnt coached in the league since 2018. Currently with the Aussie team - not sure he'd want or be able to do both.
Veart - is with Adelaide and they are on a 4 game losing streak.
Stanton - do we really want anything the Jets have touched?
R Aloisi - would be a risk bringing him back to the league, but would be fun to welcome him back to the club
Michael Valkanis - currently in Turkey managing there, his team is about to be relegated by the looks of it.
Mike Mulvey - hasnt coached aleague since leaving CCM, 
Moon is with the PNG side, I cant see him leaving,

got bored researching all these, but they all seem like they are either employed in better roles, done it before and werent flash or probably not qualified. None of them seen really inspiring.

Valkanis is free I believe, as are most on this list. If not free, they're assistants who might want to step up or coaching or in technical roles at a lower level. 

I doubt R Aloisi would be affordable. 2nd Best mentioned the same for Arnold.

This is a quick list. Missing are qualified NZers, of which I have no knowledge, qualified Australians likely involved in the NPLs and of course those running agency connections from around the world to express an interst in coaching in Australasia, of which there could be loads, or none.

Half a Pint

Rumours around Sydney FC fans say that if they sack Talay, then Graham Arnold will take over - don't know if thats just wishful thinking from Sydney supporters or if there's anything more to it.

Also don't know if Graham Arnold still has desires to coach after he decided to leave the Socceroos as his heart wasn't in it anymore

Arnold's outstanding IMO. Unfortunately he got beat up by #soccertwitter, as they tend to do. Years ago, before Fritz I think (?) he expressed what a good role the NZ role would be, given the talent we had coming through.

I think he'd be awesome for Sydney. 

Would Olli Harder be an option? Currently a coach at Viking afaik

2ndBest

You're missing Roman!

I would take Roman Ibramovich in a shot, but Mourinho ball could be even duller than injury time Chief ball. 

Bring back Rudan?

(this is a joke)

Friar Tuck

Would Olli Harder be an option? Currently a coach at Viking afaik

 Good shout! Is he quite settled in Norway though?

I'd definitely take Veart. Has always finished in the play-offs bar this season, Adelaide have been a fun team to watch for the most part, and he's been part of the development of some great players such as Gauci, Toure (x2), Irankunda, Yengi. Most managers will lose a few games in a row in their career... 

We haven't recruited an established A-League manager since Ernie Merrick 12 years ago, since then we've been giving managers there first chance as head coach. 

I'd also take Des, he loves the country, he has a great style of play and is also good at developing young players. 

Both Des and Veart would be more expensive than Chiefy though which might sway in Chiefy's favour. 

Veart would be an interesting option. At face value he does appear a hard nosed, grumpy Aussie. Plenty of ranting sideline. Sort of personality that might rattle a few cages. But he does have a great track record of bringing through young talent at Adelaide.

I remember in the past Dome, saying that Chiefy is almost 'Kiwi like' in his mannerisms. Polite, self deprecating, calm, and measured in how he operates. That wardrobe. So he's fitted well in at the club since he first arrived.

But all the discussion is a bit moot. Italiano is going to be reappointed.

Italiano in!
After one excellent year and one poor year, IMHO it's best to keep the status quo. I'm happy with Italiano staying.
Thread over.

HattyCW

imanixsupporter

Iffil?
Griffiths?
Buckingham?
Greenacre?
Talay (when Arnold replaces him)?
Rudan (he's available...)?
Riera?

How can you even consider Rudan again as an option?

I was about to say the same. 

nixin

Italiano in!
After one excellent year and one poor year, IMHO it's best to keep the status quo. I'm happy with Italiano staying.
Thread over.

The part italiano in fans seems to overlook is that the tactics were horrible (based on coming essentially last). And when those tactics failed there was no change - for the entire season. So if you could explain how that might be different in the new season you might get more people on side but otherwise he needs to go. 

rua_taniwha

nixin

Italiano in!
After one excellent year and one poor year, IMHO it's best to keep the status quo. I'm happy with Italiano staying.
Thread over.

The part italiano in fans seems to overlook is that the tactics were horrible (based on coming essentially last). And when those tactics failed there was no change - for the entire season. So if you could explain how that might be different in the new season you might get more people on side but otherwise he needs to go. 

The one thing that makes me not mind Chiefy having another season is we're gonna be keeping 3 of the imports hes picked and they all expire next season so if a new coach comes in he should have a full 5 slots to pick from if the 2 imports we sign next season are on 1 year contracts.

Which would help a lot with the new coach coming in to build his own team and a lot of the younger players will be hitting that 2-3 seasons of experience to really start to make an impact. 

Because as of right now I think anyone coming into this job would find it hard to have a good first season inheriting this squad.

wilbaker

rua_taniwha

nixin

Italiano in!
After one excellent year and one poor year, IMHO it's best to keep the status quo. I'm happy with Italiano staying.
Thread over.

The part italiano in fans seems to overlook is that the tactics were horrible (based on coming essentially last). And when those tactics failed there was no change - for the entire season. So if you could explain how that might be different in the new season you might get more people on side but otherwise he needs to go. 

The one thing that makes me not mind Chiefy having another season is we're gonna be keeping 3 of the imports hes picked and they all expire next season so if a new coach comes in he should have a full 5 slots to pick from if the 2 imports we sign next season are on 1 year contracts.

Which would help a lot with the new coach coming in to build his own team and a lot of the younger players will be hitting that 2-3 seasons of experience to really start to make an impact. 

Because as of right now I think anyone coming into this job would find it hard to have a good first season inheriting this squad.

That's a good point, though that makes me much more excited for the 26/27 season than I am 25/26... 

All eyes on Chiefy next year, a whole backroom staff clean-out, Al-Taay, Rojas, Ball, Wootton, Sutton, now Kosta (potentially) all looking elsewhere, nearly all making their decisions mid-season. Where there's smoke there's fire - it was quite obviously an unhappy camp. 

They've kept Chiefy, even though a manager's top 3 priorities are probably tactics, recruitment and having a team morale that garners performance. All three were off this year. 

Decision's been made, so be it, hopefully there's a few signings (and releases) that make us all a bit more optimistic about next season... 

Another reason to be more excited about the 26/27 season than next year is it will be our 20th season and would imagine they will want both teams performing to their very best.

"All eyes on Chiefy next year, a whole backroom staff clean-out, Al-Taay, Rojas, Ball, Wootton, Sutton, now Kosta (potentially) all looking elsewhere, nearly all making their decisions mid-season. Where there's smoke there's fire - it was quite obviously an unhappy camp."

That list intrigues me a bit - some are clear indications of Italiano not valuing them any more (Ball and maybe Al-Taay). Unsure how Rojas is an example of an unhappy dressing room - he's leaving cos he was injured all season.
Wootton and Sutton possibly leaving for "issues with the management style" or they just got a better offer than the Nix were not prepared to match - particularly in Wootton's case with a 3 year deal. (huge at his age)

theprof

"All eyes on Chiefy next year, a whole backroom staff clean-out, Al-Taay, Rojas, Ball, Wootton, Sutton, now Kosta (potentially) all looking elsewhere, nearly all making their decisions mid-season. Where there's smoke there's fire - it was quite obviously an unhappy camp."

That list intrigues me a bit - some are clear indications of Italiano not valuing them any more (Ball and maybe Al-Taay). Unsure how Rojas is an example of an unhappy dressing room - he's leaving cos he was injured all season.
Wootton and Sutton possibly leaving for "issues with the management style" or they jus got a better offer than the Nix were prepared to match - particularly in Wootton's case with a 3 year deal. (huge at his age)

I would be very surprised if moving to Perth would be considered by two first team (not just also-ran squaddies) defenders if it came without a significant financial incentive.  The club might have been asked "are you prepared to match that?" but maybe not.

Gilly said Sutton got a much larger stack as an incentive to move. Said they had put an offer in front of him, but it was less. 

And yeh, don’t think iirc the Nix were keen on 3 years for Wootton either.