Wellington Phoenix Men

R21 v ADL Thu 27 Feb 9:30pm SS3

520 replies · 24,874 views
about 12 years ago
Luis Garcia wrote:
Smithy wrote:
Jerzy Merino wrote:
kwlap wrote:

disappointing, but the reds were very good, and they had a lot of luck. and our attack didnt click today. too much bunching in the middle at the top of their box, no one making space, everyone just seemed to run into the same space.

Manny(1week?) and Caria(season?) out, so now our mid field stocks are ridiculously thin, Hicks, Ridenton and rufer are good young players but none seem to play the role we are missing. what are the chances of signing an injury replace? wasnt smithy pushing some one on the pod the other day. mike eager? maybe we need to have a look at bringing him or someone else in.

on another note, its a shame we have 9 days until we next see the nix play, but at the same time it might be useful in terms of giving ernie time to tweak tactics and for players to clear there heads.(though i know half of them are involved with the AWs or CR friendlies)

The only DM in NZ anywhere near standard is Chris Bale.

 


It blows my mind Mike Eagar doesn't get a look in. Here's a dude who was a holding midfielder in age group national sides. Fell out with Ricki. Went to Australia and has won the league in Queensland and Melbourne (last year, named club MVP). Currently a leading light of the VPL.




But when you look at the VPL, would he be the best DM there?


Was Manny the best in the VPL when we picked him up?
Nope, not even close.

a.haak

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about 12 years ago
Smithy wrote:
Jerzy Merino wrote:
kwlap wrote:

disappointing, but the reds were very good, and they had a lot of luck. and our attack didnt click today. too much bunching in the middle at the top of their box, no one making space, everyone just seemed to run into the same space.

Manny(1week?) and Caria(season?) out, so now our mid field stocks are ridiculously thin, Hicks, Ridenton and rufer are good young players but none seem to play the role we are missing. what are the chances of signing an injury replace? wasnt smithy pushing some one on the pod the other day. mike eager? maybe we need to have a look at bringing him or someone else in.

on another note, its a shame we have 9 days until we next see the nix play, but at the same time it might be useful in terms of giving ernie time to tweak tactics and for players to clear there heads.(though i know half of them are involved with the AWs or CR friendlies)

The only DM in NZ anywhere near standard is Chris Bale.

 


It blows my mind Mike Eagar doesn't get a look in. Here's a dude who was a holding midfielder in age group national sides. Fell out with Ricki. Went to Australia and has won the league in Queensland and Melbourne (last year, named club MVP). Currently a leading light of the VPL.



Eagar was courted by TW, but left his decision a bit late. Has moved clubs from what I have heard. 

  Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn

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about 12 years ago
sthn.jeff wrote:

Shit thats a surprise.... Back on the Lia Scape goat trail, with a side order of Manny goat too.

IMO the biggest problem we had tonight stemmed from our wide midfielders getting caught too far forward, leaving Central midfilders trying to scramble across and help out the overloaded full backs who were just getting slaughtered.

Not trying to scapegoat Lia (the whole team was at fault at various times) but can I suggest that you watch Lia's defensive efforts in the lead up to the first two goals (this version shows the lead up quite well). He really gets caught doing nothing at all, marking no-one, and has about 0 pace. Agree that Boyd got caught too high up on the 1st, but Lia does nothing to track back and help, and on the 2nd he just plain loses his man.
P.S. The next two goals can be directly attributed to us losing Caira and Cunningham trying to be a RB (and failing), and the last well...
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about 12 years ago

Really??.... Usain Bolt would have struggled to catch Zullo from where he started in that movement (Lia was about 15 yards outside adelaide penalty area on the left hand side when Galekovich received the ball.). I would see the primary reason for that was Boyd trying to press to high and leaving the fullback Zullo with half a pitch to operate in. 


The second Goal if you look the goal scorer made a run off Mannys shoulder . Yup Lia was last in shot but Manny was wandering about in a daze, neither helping Caira or covering the goalscorer. A step before that even,  Kenny gave the ball away around the halfway line meaning players getting forward to support had to try and get back. 

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about 12 years ago
sthn.jeff wrote:

Really??.... Usain Bolt would have struggled to catch Zullo from where he started in that movement (Lia was about 15 yards outside adelaide penalty area on the left hand side when Galekovich received the ball.). I would see the primary reason for that was Boyd trying to press to high and leaving the fullback Zullo with half a pitch to operate in. 


The second Goal if you look the goal scorer made a run off Mannys shoulder . Yup Lia was last in shot but Manny was wandering about in a daze, neither helping Caira or covering the goalscorer. A step before that even,  Kenny gave the ball away around the halfway line meaning players getting forward to support had to try and get back. 

Tthat is what Sigmund makes a great defender, never gives up. Remember last week first goal, attacker dancing around Boxal, Lia stops running, could have helped him if would have run the extra 20 meters.
To easy to blame Lia for everything, almost the whole team was not showing up, we know that they can do better, that's the frustrating thing.
Hope we have a bit luck with the other games this weekend to stay in touch.
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about 12 years ago

Smithy - totally agree re: Micheal Eagar.  A very calm, composed DM prospect I reckon...

Also, how anyone here can still wave the flag for Vincent Lia after yet another substandard performance, it blows my tiny mind.

In a midfield with super attack minded players like Boyd, and Cunningham on either side, with a rookie holder behind you, and free agent in Hernandez in front, Lia has f****king got to deliver defensively, and he cant.


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about 12 years ago · edited about 12 years ago · History
f.barisi wrote:

Smithy - totally agree re: Micheal Eagar.  A very calm, composed DM prospect I reckon...

Also, how anyone here can still wave the flag for Vincent Lia after yet another substandard performance, it blows my tiny mind.

In a midfield with super attack minded players like Boyd, and Cunningham on either side, with a rookie holder behind you, and free agent in Hernandez in front, Lia has f****king got to deliver defensively, and he cant.



A rookie Holder?? you mean Manny?


It is also hardly a case of waving the flag for him. Yes he made mistakes yesterday but he was not alone in that regard. If you think he was primarily responsible for yesterday, yes your tiny mind is blown

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about 12 years ago
hlmphil wrote:
sthn.jeff wrote:

Shit thats a surprise.... Back on the Lia Scape goat trail, with a side order of Manny goat too.

IMO the biggest problem we had tonight stemmed from our wide midfielders getting caught too far forward, leaving Central midfilders trying to scramble across and help out the overloaded full backs who were just getting slaughtered.

Not trying to scapegoat Lia (the whole team was at fault at various times) but can I suggest that you watch Lia's defensive efforts in the lead up to the first two goals (this version shows the lead up quite well). He really gets caught doing nothing at all, marking no-one, and has about 0 pace. Agree that Boyd got caught too high up on the 1st, but Lia does nothing to track back and help, and on the 2nd he just plain loses his man.

http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/videos/all/adelaide-v-phoenix-1st-half-highlights/10163/1

P.S. The next two goals can be directly attributed to us losing Caira and Cunningham trying to be a RB (and failing), and the last well...



Lia was not to blame for the first goal. The second I think he was.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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about 12 years ago

Our midfield and wide players were totally blown away in the first 25 mins last night and never allowed to settle. As much as there were a lot of questions around our own performance, I have to say that rAdelaide came out and put the foot on our throat and barely took it off.

The worst thing for me is not the result (I'll get over that - again) but the injuries and bookings (Meesteeerrr Moooosecaaat).

E + R + O

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about 12 years ago

Aye, well maybe not "rookie" "rookie" (!),  but seems it like about its been about three seasons since he played more than two games back to back in the sole DM role, but I'm often terribly wrong....

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about 12 years ago
f.barisi wrote:

Aye, well maybe not "rookie" "rookie" (!),  but seems it like about its been about three seasons since he played more than two games back to back in the sole DM role, but I'm often terribly wrong....


Think you will find he played there most of last year there until Greenie took over and moved him to right back. Started this season there as well until he moved to Left back at Caira's expense about  6 or 7 games in once Riera had established himself in a starting role. Having played 140 or so games now with probably at least half of them in a holding midfield role you can hardly call him any kind of rookie.
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about 12 years ago

Yes, I now sound horribly wrong Jeff - thanks for that :) But in my defence, I will attempt to argue there's a big difference tween playing on your own in that role, and working as a pair.  Also, my memory is about as water tight as your granny's dollies, but I reckon manny played 86% of last season at right back, and none as sole holder this season.  The main thrust of my previous post, as you know, is to restate just how lamentable Vincent Lia is etc.

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about 12 years ago
sthn.jeff wrote:

Really??.... Usain Bolt would have struggled to catch Zullo from where he started in that movement (Lia was about 15 yards outside adelaide penalty area on the left hand side when Galekovich received the ball.). I would see the primary reason for that was Boyd trying to press to high and leaving the fullback Zullo with half a pitch to operate in. 


The second Goal if you look the goal scorer made a run off Mannys shoulder . Yup Lia was last in shot but Manny was wandering about in a daze, neither helping Caira or covering the goalscorer. A step before that even,  Kenny gave the ball away around the halfway line meaning players getting forward to support had to try and get back. 

Yep you're right re: Manny in the second.
And I'm not trying to say Lia was the reason we lost or anything like that (as you note others e.g. Boyd, Kenny, Manny were just as responsible for the goals), but his defensive pressure, and in particular the effort he puts in to get back and cover players is very poor IMO. Point taken that Manny was just as bad at times. In this respect we desperately miss Riera.
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about 12 years ago

Like it or not Lia is our sole DM option for the next game really. Ridenton, Hicks and Rufer are all clearly more attacking players and with Riera injured and Manny suspended who else is there? Sadly Lia has actually looked good this year in a more advanced role but I think the DM position exposes his weaknesses badly.

I think that Ernie has done an amazing job with the resources he has and that next year is looking incredibly promising but the playoffs are probably out of our reach now what with our injuries/suspensions. Oh well though, I think if you look at expectations at the start of the year we can be happy with where we are at. But I think a team missing as many first choice players as we are (4 for the next game by my count, plus another fringe player in Caira) is always going to struggle in a salary capped league, and our squad is less deep than some others.

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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about 12 years ago · edited about 12 years ago · History

Think Lia simply doesn't have the pace to make up for his positioning problems at DM - Riera covered him really well and allowed him to play to his strengths (stretching the play with long raking balls etc)

a.haak

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about 12 years ago · edited about 12 years ago · History
valeo wrote:

Think Lia simply doesn't have the pace to make up for his positioning problems at DM - Riera covered him really well and allowed him to play to his strengths (stretching the play with long raking balls etc)

Agreed - and I'd add he's not comfortable enough on the ball to act as the pivot or link between defense and midfield that you need if you want to play possession football, unlike Riera

 

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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about 12 years ago

Thought Siggy was fantastic last night against a side which may go on to win the League.

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about 12 years ago
sthn.jeff wrote:

Shit thats a surprise.... Back on the Lia Scape goat trail, with a side order of Manny goat too.

IMO the biggest problem we had tonight stemmed from our wide midfielders getting caught too far forward, leaving Central midfilders trying to scramble across and help out the overloaded full backs who were just getting slaughtered.

Did Riera make Lia look good? Yes probably did, but by the same token they worked together as a unit very well, understanding what the other was doing, so as a partnership they looked very good, probably the best central pairing in the league.

Is our squad thin? Yes, but when you look at our long term injuries that would apply to pretty well any team in the league.

That Aussie commentator Nick Meredith was getting on my tits last night. Mannys elbow did not look great, especially in slow mo and he does have form in that regard (just ask Marco) but I tend to think that was a reflex action, but it was replayed about 10 times from every different angle, whereas Elrich was brushed aside as its ok he will apologise later and only the one replay shown. Reality is I feel they were both accidental and just shit happens at times but interesting to see the different treatment of both.

It was all very similar to the Heart game ... Carlos and Stein marked out of the match leaving us with little going forward. 

Absolutely agree
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about 12 years ago
ConanTroutman wrote:

Like it or not Lia is our sole DM option for the next game really.


Boxall?

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about 12 years ago

Would be interesting with Boxall there. Or even Durante. I just don't think Lia has the goods for that role. Appeared to struggle last time he was there.

Would be nice to hear about some injury cover signings this week, but I'm joy holding my breath.

Yellow Whever Whanganui

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about 12 years ago
Fenix wrote:
ConanTroutman wrote:

Like it or not Lia is our sole DM option for the next game really.


Boxall?

Yeah but with Caira and Muscat out who plays RB then?

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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about 12 years ago

Ernie's working on converting Krishna into a wide defender as you speak.

"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...

I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...

Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...

Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."

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about 12 years ago

Pull the pin quick. We have time and games in hand. #Believe 

  Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn

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about 12 years ago

16m waves and GM still got to watch the game. Legend

  Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn

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about 12 years ago
valeo wrote:

In previous seasons a trip to hindmarsh was almost a forgone conclusion - this season, I have no idea what will happen. We could lose 5-0 but I feel like we could just as easily win by the same scoreline. Who knows.



Wise!
Profile pic. Should you be interested. Lakhsen, on the right, lost touch with him.
Mohammed, on the left, I'm still in touch with. He's now living in Agadez, Niger. More focused on his animals now as tourism has dried up. Is active with a co-op promoting local goods, leather work and bijouterie, into Europe. 
20/5/20

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about 12 years ago

Dura to DM, Boxall to CB; what about Leo Bertos at right back? It's desperate times people.

Kotahitanga. We are one.

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about 12 years ago

but Lia has the engine to give it all for 90 minutes!?! what a crock the only reason he manages not to look knackered at the end of every game like Reira does is down to the fact he cruises in large patches, ie the two goals where instead of making an effort to get back to mark he decides "I'm nedver going to make it" and gives up.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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about 12 years ago

The Lia haters have really come out in force since last night.


Which is pretty dumb considering how well he's played most of this season.


We know that Lia thrives when he's alongside an effective ball winner. Without one he has to do things that he's not as good at. 

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 12 years ago

smithy he's been fairly ineffectual as a whole for the last 5 seasons, sure less so this season but there's not much football about him

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about 12 years ago
horseshead21 wrote:

smithy he's been fairly ineffectual as a whole for the last 5 seasons, sure less so this season but there's not much football about him

 

I don't really buy that aye. I think he's a pretty handy A League midfielder when deployed in the right job. 

It's like asking you to be an up and back winger Horse. If you kept getting deployed out wide on the left everyone would think you were pretty average.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 12 years ago

personally think I'd thrive there, versatile.

I'm not denying he's had his best season in sometime but I still think he's very very limited.

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about 12 years ago

The massive porkie in the first sentence ruins any chance of anyone taking the second sentence seriously... ;)


Nah I know what you mean but I think haters are over-stating it.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 12 years ago

someone beat me to it. though I'm not sure if I'm joking. 

Dura's an international DM



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about 12 years ago
Global Game wrote:

Dura to DM, Boxall to CB; what about Leo Bertos at right back? It's desperate times people.



Had completely forgotten about Leo. Sure he's not the player he used to be but he does have a lot of experience which is what we need at the moment. Wont be at RB though.
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about 12 years ago
Outpost wrote:
Global Game wrote:

Dura to DM, Boxall to CB; what about Leo Bertos at right back? It's desperate times people.



Had completely forgotten about Leo. Sure he's not the player he used to be but he does have a lot of experience which is what we need at the moment. Wont be at RB though.
how long will it take you all to accept Boxall is lazy! 

  Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn

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about 12 years ago
Outpost wrote:
Global Game wrote:

Dura to DM, Boxall to CB; what about Leo Bertos at right back? It's desperate times people.



Had completely forgotten about Leo. Sure he's not the player he used to be but he does have a lot of experience which is what we need at the moment. Wont be at RB though.
He's injured. 1-2 weeks away IIRC.
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about 12 years ago
Smithy wrote:
horseshead21 wrote:

smithy he's been fairly ineffectual as a whole for the last 5 seasons, sure less so this season but there's not much football about him

 


I don't really buy that aye. I think he's a pretty handy A League midfielder when deployed in the right job. 


It's like asking you to be an up and back winger Horse. If you kept getting deployed out wide on the left everyone would think you were pretty average.


What are his strengths though Smithy?  He's not a ball winner which we've seen over the past few weeks.  Supposedly he's a decent attacking midfield player; his passing is ok yet he's barely created a chance in all the games where he's pushed further forward.  He's not that athletic, he doesn't surge with the ball at his feet like Cunningham.  He's not that comfortable even taking the ball off the back four and building the play.  He can make some decent cross field passes when he gets the ball higher up the pitch and he's definitely kept possession a lot better this year.  But he has one assist which was a (possibly misplaced) pass to Hernandez who scored a worldy.  He's hit the post once and has no other shots on target. 

It's not about being a Lia hater or scapegoating him or any of that rubbish, it's saying that when you look at it why does he struggle so badly when Riera isn't there?  Personally, I think the answer is that he's actually not good enough and Riera has papered over the cracks to a certain extent.

He's not the only player who struggled over the past few weeks.  But it is a concern.  He's a senior player and I want to see him step up and dominate a game.  We've seen each of Cunningham, Hernandez, Riera, Steyn, Durante, Moss and Sigmund all do that and earn us points.  I have not seen that from Lia

Normo's coming home

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about 12 years ago
2ndBest wrote:
Outpost wrote:
Global Game wrote:

Dura to DM, Boxall to CB; what about Leo Bertos at right back? It's desperate times people.



Had completely forgotten about Leo. Sure he's not the player he used to be but he does have a lot of experience which is what we need at the moment. Wont be at RB though.

He's injured. 1-2 weeks away IIRC.



Bummer, thought Ernie mentioned post-CCM match that he was ready to go again.
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about 12 years ago

james dean is right - Lia can't shoot, can't score, rarely gets blocks / tackles in, is slow, doesn't track back well, doesn't provide assists...

So what does he do?

I've seen 'long raking passes' mentioned on this thread but can't think those happen too often.

IMO he is a major weak link in our side, and always has been.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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about 12 years ago · edited about 12 years ago · History
Steve-O wrote:

james dean is right - Lia can't shoot, can't score, rarely gets blocks / tackles in, is slow, doesn't track back well, doesn't provide assists...

So what does he do?

I've seen 'long raking passes' mentioned on this thread but can't think those happen too often.

IMO he is a major weak link in our side, and always has been.



So you don't rate him? :)

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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