R4 vs Melbourne City | Sun 3rd Nov | 6:00pm | SS7

I've sat and watching this with the eye on 'What went wrong here?' because there had to be something go wrong to get to the final outcome. That’s what we need to fix. It’s easy to say VAR is poor but you also need to find what went wrong so it’s better going forward.

Last night I watched this a few times and made some assumptions

1: The referee cannot see through Fentons body to see the chest touch. From his view, the only option he can see is ball hitting the arm. Reasonably if that’s your only information, you would award a penalty. (Did it hit the arm? I think it brushed off the arm from his chest but glancing)

2: While I don't put a lot of stock in player reactions, his are unusual in so far that they seem genuine, and not a con job. 'Don't worry lads' thumbs up as opposed to an outright protest because players know VAR will get it.

3: From there the VAR would review and would have asked the referee questions. Perhaps a 'What did you see?' The referee would reply 'I saw it hit arm' The VAR asks himself 'is this a clear and obvious error? Well it did hit the arm so he is not wrong, don't overrule'

Reading Domes reply above (assuming this is correct from the match officials) actually points to the fact that this is another case where the proponents do not know the law.

Making yourself unnaturally larger in the penalty is a key component of handball, but only when it comes directly from a play from the opponent. Page 104 has a clause that (paraphasing) it’s usually (keyword) handball if the arm/hand is above/beyond shoulder level unless the player deliberately plays the ball which then touches their hand/arm. The only question you then need to ask is 'Does Fenton attempt to deliberately play the ball with his chest?' The answer to that is yes, so you don't usually have handball. Also, why would a player who attempts to play the ball cleanly, then go and handle the ball? They would not, especially with the aim of blocking a cross and knowing the VAR is likely to catch you if you do try to cheat.

So why does the VAR not say anything? My assumption is probably because they are not strong on law or coaching or perhaps they did, and the referee stuck to his own opinion. Hard to know without the audio. To use an outworn cliche 'what does football expect here?', it’s not a handball.

DeVere is shockingly bad and I'll start to question if Ufuk has much of a clue if Payne, McGing  etc don't start getting a go.

"Not strong on law" is an officiating reason/excuse that has cost the Nix a lot in recent times.

If Uffy gets sacked, I would like to see Des Buckingham get the job. He has done a great job with the OlyWhites and holds the licence to coach a professional team.

The Phoenix wanted to keep Darije until he said he'd quit at the end of the season, then they let him go. Darije was in the same camp that Ufuk is now, encouraging performances but not the results. Darije was more experienced but was also a prick, I doubt they'd sack Ufuk unless he completely loses the team.

VAR and refs backing their decision

my assumption is a lack of strength in bloody commonsense. The response clearly should’ve been along the lines of “mate, it hit the chest . . . it’s not a penalty . . . change your decision” 

Isn’t it as simple as that.

of course I’m assuming that the VAR guy doesn’t carry a white stick and has a basic knowledge of the rules of the game.

wtf are they one about , that is just gibberish.

Thanks Chris for an honest answer. I think this puts it to bed.
They made a mistake, let's hope FFA clarifies why and gets more training in place to avoid this from happening again.
And that Louis doesn't get banned. I for one will happily part with $30 to support him if the fine is big enough

What annoys me is that front on angle shown isn't even conclusive if it hit Louis' hand - it's like how actors throw punches and the camera doesn't show depth so looks like the punch lands. Unless you see deviation in flight (which there wasn't), there are few angles which can confirm the ball actually hitting his hand (and position of ref wouldn't be able to see this either).

Your positivism shines with that post :-)

Have to be reg22 given the work im having done at the moment.

The frame after the ball is played off the chest. - I don't have freeze frame hi res like VAR

At least we arent getting trashed 4-0 or 4-1 like we used to during Darije's reign.

hmm I said I kind of like our attack (Ball, Hooper, Waine), but don't think much of our defence at the moment. So prob half a glass and as wishy washy as you :) But I'll let others comment what they want considering we are sitting on a big fat zero

Domey made a good comment. It was disappointing that the ref for this game being on A-League debut was backed up in VAR by another rookie. Not good appointments in hindsight.

If you consider the penalty not awarded to us in the first game due to ref and VAR not applying the correct rule for the indirect free kick in the penalty area. Now this. We can feel a bit hard done by.

Dome was wrong, VAR was not a rookie.

If UT doesn't see an urgent need to change the way he sets up that'll come soon enough. Maybe as soon as this Sunday....

Remember City were by no means at full strength and still outplayed us. I dare to imagine what McLaren would've done to our backline...

Yes on checking I see he used to ref in the A league.

But note hasn't reffed a game since 2010 and is shown as an inactive referee on Ultimate A-league site.

Can't tell on this site if he has any VAR experience though.

Craig Zetter has had plenty of VAR experience. That's what makes the whole debacle so frustrating.

3/4 games we've possibly been cost points by the VAR (indirect FK vs WU, yellow vs Perth). I look forward to it averaging out...

Nothing to see here Streb!  (And don't get me wrong- he's been a cut above most refs in the A league, but a couple of oversights there)

I am as much pissed off over the VAR as we all are, just got to move on, the Nix are here to stay and that doesn't fair well to some of those over the ditch and they will do those niggly things to piss us off. We just have to rise above those martha fockers and get those wins and points.

Our next match is against Victory and they too are hurting losing to Wankers United, especially being up first of all .

Come on the Mighty NIX

Well if that rules out a lack of knowledge of the law, as posited by Mr Kerr, what does that leave us? 

A team that can either score goals or press, but not both and a leaky defence I guess. 

If it is 'not knowing the law' that is a massive indictment on the league, as that would be two botched 'not knowing the law calls' in four games from the VAR (Western United and this).  Getting process/interpretation/fact wrong is one thing and can happen, but getting the law wrong is almost inexcusable from a referee.

Holy shark is that ref now in charge of the A league refs! I was at that game it was a brilliant farce by the end of it, got called early (after the 90 but before the injury time) coz a fight started and the ref had completely lost control. Also Ryan Nelsens last game on NZ soil I think and the ref tried to hurry him up when he got subbed

I mean he was clearly the best ref in the A league for years, but that was a shocker. Tbh tho I'm glad not to have my f- ups recorded and played back to me.

nice to know louis can animorph into a bigger player when he needs to, a real asset for the team.

I get why VAR is the story of the match on this thread, but I'm still not convinced it was the key issue in us not taking points from the game.  The lack of a 90 minute performance so far is worrying.  

I said it last week, I think our big issue is at fullback, defensive weaknesses are not being made up for by strength in attack.  

I watched Sydney Friday night and I can see how he wants us to play, but Grant is just so much more involved in the attacking play than Fenton is, and it really makes them tick over 

Drop Rufer.

So Fenton cost us a point?.

Ummm?

We have a strong attack which is not dominating as it should IMO. Plenty of balls played that aren't really on, just cos the player is in nose bleed territory. We should score two each game, minimum. We should score early and put pressure on on. Want to see a lot more of Waine. Sotirio, while he shouldn't be a starting striker, isn't as bad as has been made out- he's much more spritely than Ball or Hooper.

Think the defense all 8 outfield players with responsibilities and Talay have questions. Haven't been convinced by de Vere and Steinman not playing up to his pedigree. Actually thought Scott was better this week and delivered the ball dangerously a couple of times.

Wana see more to pick the team up when we're under the cosh. In the past that was Singh. Is it fair to pick say Piscopo got a little sloppy on defence towards the end of the first half? My feeling was he did a couple of good things on attack and then got complacent.

Anyway- still chopping and changing and not really confident in our own game yet. Hoping to see it soon.

from what I saw our attack wasn't great Sunday, we didn't create many clear cut chances

Between Hooper, Ball, Waine, McCowatt, Piscopo, Fenton, Cacace, Sotirio and Davila, we should be able to create chances and score goals. Having the two English vets together makes us slow. Ball can't really chase through balls. Davila still loses the ball a bit softly at times IMO. 

360 minutes of football so far this season, but only 6 minutes of joy.