R4 vs Melbourne City | Sun 3rd Nov | 6:00pm | SS7

Not that crash hot with it either.

Basically, everything is kinda wrong - formation doesn't work, 2 DM's are poor defensively and in transition which basically makes them pointless and DeVere may as well be replaced with a road cone.

This is a huge test of Talay's credentials. He's come here with a plan, and that plan isn't working. Does he have a plan B? Because so far, I haven't seen one. He said that his focus was on being defensively sound. I can't see that happening with a formation that gets undone by any team who knows how to play with width.

Positives for me;

Davila continues to look good whenever given the ball quickly.

Ball is a very good secondary striker.

Hooper will score quite a few.

Waine's goal; Sotirio should never be getting on ahead of this kid. He works his ass off, has just as much pace, is taller, and has more of an upside.

I think FIFA needs to make a ruling on ALL referees. I think they should be made to be available after a match to explain their decisions. If they go through the situation and tell people how and why they came to the conclusion and the decision, the a lot of fans might be a bit more understanding. 

Likewise, if they got it obviously wrong, then an apology would not hurt. Also, should a referee be that hopeless, they too should be able to be fined. Not just dropped for a week but fined too. Likewise, good referees whom handle a tough match in such a way that both teams are happy, then they should receive the plaudits and some form of bonus as a result. Incentive to get it correct.

The result was a loss so a pretty bad result, no? 

MC played well and deserved to win. Hard to create fluency though when you're being kicked to death. Ref just out of his depth. Yeah he dished some cards out, but it really played into City's hands. We never settled. 

Penalty was standard Phoenix treatment, but congrats to Ben Waine - great energy and skill. 

Fenton said exactly what he should’ve said. Good on him. Makes a refreshing change from the watered down PC rubbish responses that we usually get to PC rubbish questions.

Have a look at our passing as well. Pretty bad.

Agree with most of that, especially re waine. I see a lot of team spirit, but there was a period where nothing was working and city kept coming at us. The pen was one of the worst decisions I've seen. Pure and unadulterated corruption. Its like the Spfl and playing at stybrox. 

We started well, but the defence just isn't working. Whilst we didn't deserve to lose to that goal, it could have been a lot more imo. There were still a lot of positives but fudge me, we really need to turn the corner, and fast. 

I agree with  lot of this. We've gambled on a young squad and so far none of the young guys has really convinced. On defence, there's just no pressure on the ball and out wide it's a big problem. That would be OK if our fullbacks were better on attack but so far there impact has been negligible. We don't look truly awful like other bad Phoenix teams, but we're just a bit open and all over the place. 

I don't get the Steinmann stuff, he's solid enough for me and wins plenty of ball. Same with the refereeing, it was a bad decision, but all we lost was an opportunity for a comeback and we'd been knocking on the door without doing much for half an hour at the point while looking second best

The VAR decision was wrong, but Louis seemed to be saying it didn't hit his arm, and it did I thought? 

Hopefully we see move of waine once he finishes his exams - might find he is missing quite a bit of training at the moment to finish his exams

understandable from fenton, however, we simply were not good enough at all. Im surprised we managed to score a second tbh. I really hope uffie doesnt use that VAR incident as an excuse because 9 times out of 10 that game was always going to end in a loss.

dreadful in midfield, hoofball from the back, constant spinning looking for a back pass. 

Then we also play this dreadful formation in the last 20 mins which makes zero sense- five players as strikers with no midfield to play in balls.

I dont believe the players are incapable of playing well (except josh sotirio) but uffies tactics are holding them back. 

We have some  supporters that have rose coloured glasses ,  conspiracy theories  and poor refs to us losing. I have watches the last 3 games twice, plus todays game and every time we have been beaten by a better team. 

Yep the VAR call was ordinary,i actually thought when the ref first made the call it was  a penalty as from behind thats how it looked.Iys only on replay that you can see what happened. Focusing on that call as the main reason for the loss is just wrong.

I don't think it did, and based on his pretty continuous reaction, he certainly didn't think so either.  Hard to tell for sure either way from the camera though.  What's indisputable is that it was either chest only, or chest first.

yes and therefore clearly not a penalty. Irrespective of how the Phoenix played, the tactics etc etc. it is an indisputable fact that the decision cost us a point. There has to be some other explanation for this; it was so clearly off the chest that no-one could could be that incompetent to not see this. Since day one the Phoenix have had a raw deal from A League referees. Same as the Silver Ferns; not the same as the All Blacks. That I find intriguing.

It clearly isn't an indisputable fact that the penalty decision cost us a point. We were still down at that point in the game, and there is no way to know how the game would've progressed from there if the penalty hadn't been given.

What kinda irks me is that Fentons reactions really should have clued the refs up a bit on what happened. 

Its football, players blow up when they are trying to get out of a pen, or get the other team a card, or if someone farts near them. 

He was so calm and collected that the process was going to show it wasn't a pen which was what sold me from the first moment that it was definitely not a pen. 

Refs don't want to be harassed but it seems like the only way to get a call your way, deserved or not, is to carry on like crazy. 

But agreed with el, it's tough to say if it cost us the game, we know they got a bullshark goal and we lost by a goal, but changing that one moment xoukd have any effect on the game.  Maybe we bang a couple in and win, maybe the do and we lose by 3.  

Still sucks though.  With a low scoring sport like football you don't have to be the best team on the pitch, you just need to score more goals.  Over the years we've seen plenty of games where the Nix have been the best team on the park but didn't finish chances and ultimately lost. 

We looked pants.

We have no width and our attack is laboured as we didn't seem capable of passing it through the thirds with any intent.

I would like to see us switch to a 5 - 3 - 2. Fenton and Carcace are better as wingbacks. Keep Taylor as CB and bring in Payne and Wihongi. Both can play with the ball at feet and can pass, so it will allow our mids to roam more, hopefully into space.

Waine needs to start next week.  from today i dont understand why you would take of piscopo when he was giving them trouble.  they kepts fouling him because they couldnt handle him

I don't understand how the ref gave a pen in the first place.  He was positioned about 15m directly behind Fenton, so how did he see it coming off his arm when it was clearly off his chest first.

I'll ask my usual question first: when does the SACK TALAY chant start?

More seriously, I was disturbed at the amount of times Davila was just double-teamed off the ball. He honestly looks like he wasn't prepared to be pushed around by big corn-fed Aussie blokes.

Waine should definitely be starting.

I say Rufer needs to get dropped. His head always drops whenever opposition team scores and you can't do that especially if you're playing an important role in the midfield. He's been a shocker so far. Our midfield need a lot of work. They take too long to fall back. Attack is looking good with Piscopo and Hooper and defense will tighten up with return of Cacace. But yes, Rufer does need to get dropped from starting Xl. He always plays it back even when there are better options up front. He has been disappointing so far. Perhaps give Payne a chance in his place. He has also played as CDM for Eastern Suburbs before and has done a great job. Rufer's mentality needs to pick up. He's still trying to use Mark Rudan's tactics with the 3-4-1-2 formation which won't work with a 4-4-2 formation and Rufer needs to understand that. He needs to pick up. Unarguably, that was one of our worst performances. Didn't see the intensity as City. Need to pick up our game. Really proud of youngsters Waineo and McCowatt. They added a lot of spice to the game.

And Ufuk Talay is a very good coach. It's just the players who need to work harder. Our midfield is our weakest area if you ask me. They need to work harder and be more aggressive with and without the ball. Next week's match will be very interesting. 

i heard there's a fundraiser to pay Fenton's fine. Is this true? Where's the link lol

But as a ref you'd want to be sure what it hits when giving a pen or free kick.  He couldn't as he was directly behind the player.  Would have thought he could have left it to VAR guy to check if there was arm contact before the corner was taken, not the other way around.  And yeah agree VAR guy blew it as well.

Australia's top referees united for the good of the game

It's a good thing the crouds are down or we would see more

Nix Out Fans across the ditch - Oh that's right it's Official

Sounds like they are doubling down and we aren't even going to get the Monday morning apology. 

From seeing the first 4 games, there seems to be 2 main underlying issues with the teams performance so far.

These is a lack of confidence in some players self belief and the way the team is apparently being trained.

Starting from the back, the inside backs are far too static in defence. They are not there to help the LBs and RBs and the DMs don’t or unable to get back regularly,( like every time) to break down the opps attacks.Marinkovic

So the result is plenty of time and space for the opps to build , maybe go down to the byline or cut inside .They easily find the opps AMs on the D who can set up almost at leisure their final moves on goal. Is it a lack of understanding of their roles or the game plan ala Ufuk? Its got to be the latter.

The other point is that the AMs are still too slow and tentative transitioning onto attack. (Maybe not so much Cacarce but to be fair he has been tentative in his games go far as well). It could be a hangover after preseason slow build up training or it could be the newbies finding it tough to adjustto the pace and robustness of the A league. There was hit and miss support for the WBs as well, except for the latter stages of the game last night.

When we go up the centre of the park they run too far with the ball. One, 2 or 3 opps close them down smartly as there is no support for the man with the ball. At least 2 options are needed for the runner with the ball every time. Look at Piscopo last night how often he was caught with no one topass to. Louis is almost relearning his trade again. His passing back drive me nuts, but again where are the options and support? Don’t know. He will improve though-we know hes got it in him. Walter is an apprentice. He has a lot to learn and more importantly must learn quickly to stop himself being skinned. We mustbe patient.

The skill level is good enough in most areas compared with last year and Waine and NcCowatt are exciting for the future. There will be other sin the wings we may need to call on. Ufuk has had 4 games to try and improve on the same game plan, but he must fix the issues raised here, otherwise we are in for a not very happy season.

The way I saw it, we can argue all we want that MC were overall better than us, but the truth of the matter is that we lost (again) by a one-goal margin, and MC were gifted a goal with an incorrect call which was shockingly upheld by the VAR.

I’m a huge VAR fan and I’ve stated as much on here several times. To me, it removes the anything that gets in the way of a good decision (referee being too far away from the play, optical illusions etc). What I don’t understand is how can anyone, watching the replay frame-by-frame, uphold that decision. The ball clearly hit the chest and then flies in front of the arm – it does not brush past it nor does it change direction. Shocking.

In regards to the game itself, I was impressed by Piscopo – the lad has a lot of confidence and isn’t afraid to take on some responsibility. Also, Steinman – despite the odd mistake – is one of the best DMs I’ve ever seen at the Phoenix.

DeVere seems to be about a yard off the pace and is knackered after about 60 minutes, so that’s a worry. Taylor was IMMENSE – I’d give him a 10/10.

I really don’t think we’re too far away from our first win, but the draw was very unkind to us and the prospect of playing MVC away from home isn’t very reassuring…

This is a team with a lot of potential – the more they play together, the more they’ll gel, I really hope they do so soon as I want us to start winning games and climb the ladder.

They will come up with some stupid excuse instead of admitting that 4 referees on the pitch and 3 VAR's could not see the obvious.

Seriously we just weren't good enough, that was City B and still we couldn't handle it being out played all over the park. The coach is to stubborn to change things around!.

Summary of discussion: refs believe @LouisFenton10 body was ''unnaturally bigger''. Louis maintains he didn't touch the ball with his hand and footage looks to support this. Ref not in good position to make that call. #MCYvWEL

— David Dome (@Domestar) November 3, 2019

What sort of nonsense is that?

unnaturally bigger? the ball hit his chest, and maybe flicked his hand - what a crock!

Yep i may be overly optimistic but i dont think the situation is as dire as all the negative suzies  are painting.At the end of the 4th round the worst we can be is 6 points out of the six.With 22 games to go not impossible to achieve. There have been signs in all games that this team when they get on the same page WILL have success.

However unless our defence stops gifting goals it wont matter how good our attack is we will be constantly on the back foot.The squad we have is what we have to work with until the next window so the solution for the moment has to come from within.Dont really get the constant criticism of some of the attacking players for their defensive work.Its not them who are gifting those goals around the box.

I await with interest the slit wrists after this weekend if the lads cant turn things around.

I'm not sure if your glass is half empty or full?!