Ricki Herbert going to be sacked at the end of the season?

 Anyone think Ricki will be sacked at the end of the season?

As a coach you can only do so much. If the players you have are not up to it then it does not matter how good you are.

 Ahhh good, a thread.

I agree that a coach can only do so much. Today the players were poor, not much Ricki could do. However I do believe that it is time for a change in the coaching department.

He will move into this Director of Football role we keep hearing about so that he can go and spend more time with the All Whites, which has pretty much been the plan all along I think.

And the we'll get some B-grade Aussie to replace him as coach.

By the way, I think it would be absolutely stupid of the Nix to cut him loose completely. He is still the longest serving coach in the A-League and has a massive amount of knowledge and experience compared to anyone else at the club. I think we still need him around even if it's not as first team coach.

Ironically, the only thing that may derail this plan is the financial situation. Can Welnix afford a DoF and a first team coach?

This. Also the person that seems to get touted as his replacement (Emblen) has no pro experience. Waitak and Oly team only (not that Ricki had either when he got the gig so...)

Why wait till the end of the season?

Hopefully. Maybe he'll do the decent thing and resign before he's pushed.

Ricki signed each and every one of those players.

And who exactly should he have signed?

Better players. Like other managers have managed to do.

Hmm yeah but I actually think the players we signed in the offseason are our better players. Before that you can assume we didn't exactly have many resources with which to buy better players. 

However where we sit on the ladder currently isn't even close to being good enough, and ricki has to take some heat for that. 

terminator_x wrote:

nightz wrote:

Why wait till the end of the season?

Because this isn't the EPL where clubs can afford to pay out one manager and then get another in from a wide pool of qualified and experienced candidates.

ffs, even the thought of having to pay out $50k to get rid of Ricki is probably enough to put Welnix off the idea.

Some of the brigade need to stop and think about what the actual, practical implications of doing that would be.

This isn't Melbourne Victory or Sydney FC - it just ain't gonna happen.

And besides, as I've already pointed out, Ricki's experience and knowledge vastly outweighs that of anybody else involved in the club. I don't just mean coaching, I mean every aspect of running an A-League franchise. Welnix will know this and hopefully are smart enough to figure out a way to best use him without cutting him loose completely.

Haven't every other team in the league changed manager in relatively recent times? Not sure its quite as impossible as you make out. 

Also, I dont dispute his experience, but dont you think a clean slate is a better idea than having a new manager trying to do the job with Ricki still hanging around and possibly trying to exert his influence?

Given the fact that Welnix don't want to spend money I can't see them buying of his contract, they'll wait till the end of the season. Label this year as a development of a new style year move Ricki to the DoF role and look for a replacement.

There is one name that has just come to mind. Vaughan Coveny

Has his tickets, coaching in Australia (someone said VPL?). Knows about the A League as well as anyone, a Kiwi...

edit: Youth assistant with the tards... Would be a good hire as an assistant.

Wikipedia says he was sacked after 1 season at South Melbourne and is now a youth coach at Victory?

Yes...he goes!

Look what a good coach(Popovic) has done with a bunch of A-League rejects. We have enough player quality to finish at least top 6.

Ricki goes end of season.

6 imports remember.  One of whom is an FFA funded marquee  All who have started

I was being generous to him.  Kresinger isn't really a starter.

David Dome...Two minutes ago on Radiosport..."Ricki has the backing of the board"...

 Oh dear, the old ' The Manager has the full backing of the board' statement. Obviously means he's on the way out the door :)

Six years is a long time for a football manager...especially one that has no silver ware. Managers come and go, its not like the sky is going to fall if Ricki goes. Since the start of the last A-League season the following A-League clubs have changed managers. Victory(twice), Sydney(twice), Brisbane, Adelaide, Heart(Jets???).....

Another factor for Ricki going is AW commitments. The A-League is at such a level now where you want your coach 100% focused on the team 100% of the time. Next November we have two huge WC playoff games. NZF will probably organise a few warmup games before. It will be bad enough losing a whole bunch of players but do we want our head coach out of loop during at the beginning of the season.

 Im neither one way or the other at the moment.But just remind me again for those of you calling for him to be sacked is it going to benefit us.Seems the Welnix guys want something that they arnt prepared to put money into,that is money into players im talking about.Look at most of the other teams they have either recruited a marque player or talented euoropeans or south americans etc etc.Us we are expected to compete with players of a lesser quality while our saviour if you listen to all the talk is going to be our youth acadamy.Yeah right

We have been to the finals 3 seasons in a row while playing a style that couldnt be called exciting,this season they are expected to change their style with a squad that is mostly icapable of playing the required style.Im just not sure how a new coach wouldbe able to make them do it any better.

Plus the fact some of our players are either so badly out of form or just icapable of competing at this level anymore.

Considering Herbert's comments in the paper that both Lochhead and Sigmund have been disappointing and hearing him on the news that some players will have to leave because they are not technically good enough for the style of play they want to play does not bode well for some players but does signal he is aware of it at least. The blinkers are not completely on.

I thought his reply when asked "if qualifying for the finals was still realistic given the difficulties of adjusting to a possession-based style mid-season" was telling...

"Well we're not going to change, I think that directive has been put out there and I'm very supportive of that"

Very supportive? Hmm, still not taking total ownership of this change of direction then Ricki?

Of course, this is all very convenient for Ricki. He's got a ready made excuse at the end of the season: "well, if I had just been left to get on with it. It's tough to change direction mid-season" etc etc. And of course, he's at least partly right.

Of course he is right Term. To be fair, he recruited for a team that plays a different style and he was on the radio news this morning saying some players are not up to the new style and would be moved on at the end of the season. 

That's quite telling I think in that a: He did not recruit for this style of football and its quite evident watching the team play b: While the endeavour to want to play this new style is good, it should have been signalled to Ricki about now, in private, that this is what we want to do next year and recruit accordingly with a full offseason to implement. Putting it in now has only really exposed the players who can't play this way technically and really turned this season upside down. While that's good for next years recruiting seeing who can play, its rubbish for this years results and I honestly believe that this season is now a write off in respect that if we do qualify for the play offs, that's a bonus. We are not a play off calibre team as it stands with this team and a new style that we do not have the players for and no incoming cattle and nothing is going to change. Its not angst or negativity, its reality. We are not good enough. I even notice some of the more ardent fans whose opinion I do respect (El Grap for example) are now going 'can't defend that performance'

Again, if you have the ingredients for Spaghetti Bolognaise and the customer wants a Burrito, you are basically stuffed.

Responsibility for what is turning in to a shambolic season lies equally with the Herbert and the owners.

After last season it was made clear to all concerned that a more entertaining style was required to get crowd numbers up to where they needed to be for the club to become self sustaining - I know the season ticket holders I go with had had their fill of hoofball. Key recruitment objectives were identified to enable the new style including a right back, an upgrade in our midfield creativity and a decent striker. Between Brocky (when he turns up) and Waffles (jury is still out) you could argue the last objective was met. The first two weren't and we are paying the price - our midfield is dire and incapable of playing any sort of prolonged possession based game. This situation has been compounded by Manny (play me at DM or I'm off) Muscat being poor - slow of thought and action. The number of times he has been caught in possession, from behind, is criminal.

Leo has made a decent attempt at RB but it's obviously not his preferred or natural position.

The owners would have signed off our recruitments last season so they share, with Herbert, responsibility for the recruitment shortfalls. Personally I think having Herbert part time (away with the All Whites) when he should have been focused on recruitment didn't help.

Compounding our problems is players clearly at or past their best by date (Lochhead and Ifill(?)) and players obviously out of form (Sigmund and Dura (below his best)). Blaming "total football" for Sigmund's dopey decisions to repeatedly rush out of the line or Lochhead's lethargy is nonsense - it is the performance of our back four and DMs that has cost us points as much as trying to play a more attractive style.

If we are going to make the transition to a club that produces talent in-house that will take time and for performance and results to be maintained in the meantime we have to be a hell of a lot smarter with the use of our import spots - ask yourself; Totori, Smith, Waffles are not even regular starters.

I do think the owners made a mistake in trying to change styles half way through the season but at least we have found out, albeit the hard way, that much of our squad is not up to the skill level required to play a decent standard of football - in the context of the improvement in the league's standard.

We all have our own views on whether Herbert can coach a higher standard - personally I don't think he can. I also think there is probably a fatigue factor with Herbert and some of the longer serving players - they've heard every team talk multiple times and maybe it's time for fresh ideas.

The positive I take out of the current shambles is there will be  a sort out in the next off season and there will be a much greater focus on recruitment than there has been in the past. My reservation is Herbert will have a conflict of interest - as Phoenix coach he may want to release Lochhead, Sigmund, and Paston (more due to his personal choice) but as All Whites coach he may want them playing regular football. Hopefully the owners will be making the final calls and will be seeking independent advice.

The last point. Sigmund is not a starter for the AWs so not fussed (and I'd have Dura over him anyway so..), Lochhead is under pressure and it would seem a matter of time before a formation change or Hogg squeeze him out so not fussed. Paston... He is still performing but we have Moss, and Jake Gleeson and also Spoonley. Its not as conflicting as you might think.

Agree with you there Whitby boy.

what about ex a-league coaches ? Merick, Farina....Miron....

 I think Leo at RB has been the shining success story of our season. Much more than a makeshift. It's between him and Manny for the best RB in the club's history- hopefully he can continue to improve. And I don't think Siggie is done by any stretch of the imagination. We all wrote off McBreen, and he wasn't a first team regular at the Mariners until this year, but now is golden boot.

There hasn't been a settled first team, and the support and understanding between defence and midfield has been poor.

That said- if the owners are looking to go hunting for players with pedigree or skill like Daniel or Felipe in the first season, or Stein this season. Think Boyd and Fenton have been great, but would like to have only one of them starting because we had a better first team, which may be the case when Ifill returns.

I want Ricki to stay unless we can get someone who ticks all the boxes- is a better coach, is a better club man, and meets the no dicks policy. If it helped improved NZ coaching or was a pathway for a NZ coach to have a career that would be good. I think Ricki has earned the right to try and turn this around.

Wynton. Then we'd also have God on our side (much needed, obviously).

I would have someone like Paul Temple or Ramon Tribulex rather than an Aussie coach nobody else wants.