Wellington Phoenix Men

Season 2024/25 - General Discussions Thread

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about 1 year ago · edited about 1 year ago · History
I’m still a relative newbie to football fandom so as per with my usual opinions take this with a grain and a half of salt. I jumped on board the Kalezic season, in an introduction that should have had me sticking my nose up at the beautiful game a mere three matches in. Luckily I was becoming so enamored with this newfound intrigue for the sport, the results didn’t matter. “Oh yeah, New Zealand doesn’t have any renowned pedigree in football. Of course, these are the results a club from New Zealand would put up” and that kind of papered over the cracks. Love him or hate him but fast-forward to that Rudan season where pre-covid hoo-hah we looked like genuine grand final contenders combined with a National team set up that had returned from the wilderness to come inches away from a shot at a bronze medal at the Olympics. And suddenly it clicked for me. Why shouldn’t a New Zealand team be putting up results? The talent, and passion, and grassroots setup is there?

Yes, admittedly, I couldn’t have picked a richer part of Nix history to jump in on—more playoff appearances than not. I think what’s so jarring about this season is the hopelessness. The galling apparentness that there is no Plan B. We had seasons under Talay where you didn’t know if one of the young guns was gonna have the game of their lives and race us to a triumphant 3-1 victory or if our defense was going to collapse and we’d cake it on the receiving end of a 5-1 splattering. But it was appointment viewing either way. And you knew as a fan you were going to be entertained. And you trusted there would still always be slight possibility of a way back into the game, attacking options were there it was just about whether we stick the landing or not. This season the impression has been it’s as if we are in damage control mode less than one minute after the ref blows the starting whistle.   

We as a fanbase always yarn at the start of the season. “Oh, it’s just gonna take a while for the boys the gel, and mesh.” But we’re two-thirds of the way in and the boys haven’t gelled or meshed, or even looked remotely aligned or competent in what they want to achieve on the field. Is it the players, the coach? Maybe the administration doesn’t have any killer instict? Has the introduction of Auckland FC, and something to compare our beloved club against, put that lack of killer instinct into the spotlight? It’s like a slacker who has rested laurels for all too long throughout their twenties and then one morning turned thirty and woken up from a decade-long drunken haze, and had the horrible realisation that “crap, nobody is coming to rescue us.” Even in a bad season you still have a few senior heads who continue to show their class and display why they are seasoned pros. It’s really tough to watch at the moment because it seems like even our senior guys have lost any spark to carry a game. 
We’ve got not flair, we’ve lost our joy on the field, we don’t back ourselves, we seem unlikely to win those 50/50 moments that could turn a game. 

Should Chiefy get the extension? It’d be uncharacteristic of the club not to give it. And if this season has heavily delivered below expectations, last season certainly punched well above. There’s a balance there. 

It’s been a tough watch this season, and despite hoping against hope, it’s really grueling when you can’t even trust your side to be able to pop a few shots of, if nothing else. Chiefy and Domey seem to think they can turn it around in the final nine games. There’s been nothing on display so far this season that would suggest their assertion is grounded in reality. But jeez, I really hope they can because I love this club, and have loved riding the ups and downs of the last seven seasons, and whether it happens this coming Friday or not until this October, or beyond that even - I can't wait for the day that we see us firing on all cylinders once again.

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about 1 year ago
I know I'm in the minority but I'm all for getting Chiefy to do another season.

An actual likeable guy, overachieved last season, underachieving this season.  Give him a third and see if we can do something special.
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about 1 year ago
If there was any doubt (there wasn't), Domey's comments today made it clear Chiefy is staying. We might as well wrap up the conversation about whether we want him to stay or whether he will, pointless exercise. 

I'm quite excited about the rest of the season now. We are at rock bottom, the only way is up and there is genuine reason to hope for improvement now that Payne, Geraldes, Rufer & Rojas are in the mix. We won't make the finals but in a sense the finals have arrived early for us, Chiefy has stated the aim is 7 wins from 9 so that essentially makes every game from here on out "must win" (well, until we lose another couple of games). We host City on Friday who are coming off two straight losses, they're there for the taking. COYN
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about 1 year ago
I’m needing an optimism top up. I was always that guy who’d look at us as a chance from almost anywhere. 

Started with cricket and Roger Twose, Harris etc and then Nathan Astle’s 200- well he can hit every ball to the boundary, he’s just got to do it for another 3 overs and then…! Until the 10th wicket I was convinced we could get it done. Chase every ball hard in the field. Think the catch is coming every ball.

Then with Burnsy , Roy, Roly, McG…okay Ifill, Smeltz and Brown
 before that I learned about trying to dominate a game, not back down. Score first and then put them away. 

If we were down we got into the expectation of scoring 3 or even 4 and it was ours. That’ll be where the Port is. Never convinced they’ll stay down a goal. Like the ABs at 60 minutes, if the thrashing hadn’t arrived it was on the way once we got going. 10 minutes, 5 minutes whatever. We were gunna win. 

Last season wasn’t quite that feeling, but it was a feeling of control. We weren’t going to let them into the game. They’d never score and we’d pinch one or two. We weren’t blowing anyone off the park, but we never let them in. Not as exhilarating, but woulda shoulda been a way to win a title. Waiting, waiting, waiting and then striking. 

Optimist me would have been talking up our run at the finals and our chance to be the surprise package. But the way the team has not got its squad sorted until a week ago has been draining. And if anyone’s read that Mark Richardson biography, there’s that point when Jimmy Adams says to him something like ‘There’s only so long you can play like Boycott. It isn’t natural.’ And he had 8 aggressive stroke-makers around him in the test line up most of the time. 

I’m ready for some razzle dazzle. I’m ready to be entertained. Bring back Davila. I can forget a lot about him given everything that’s going on around the world. Just move the ball quickly. Spin out of a tackle and slam it in the top corner. Win some games 3-2. Send us a fast winger who loves the ball at his feet. Not a promising 16 instead, as well! And lord love him, not Tim Payne. Though he was awesome last season.

Chico and Marco seem promising. Those two Marco- Kosta goals show what we’ve been missing with the AWs. Fantastic. But I want a feast of goals, not some minimalist 5 Michelin star expensive exquisite brilliance of tiny portions. A feast of football please- we’ll have what they’re having! 


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about 1 year ago
Bananas
I know I'm in the minority but I'm all for getting Chiefy to do another season.

An actual likeable guy, overachieved last season, underachieving this season.  Give him a third and see if we can do something special.
I'd say his likeability has taken a severe hit this season.

Arrogance against Auckland, crap treatment of Bally, downplaying terrible defeats, misleading fans about style of play, signings, injuries, etc.
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about 1 year ago
The club really needs to invest in the squad if we want to be competitive in this league. 
I get the fact that we want to become a "selling club" where academy players are given the opportunity to play and are eventually sold off. Yes, we had young players in a very good season last year, but Paulsen, Surman & Old had a couple of seasons under their belt, gaining the proper exposure which is why they performed so well last season. It was quite foolish of us to play so many academy players and expect them to be quality players at A-league level without the experience.
CCM has a similar situation to us. They sold off Nisbet, Farrell and some other players who came through their academy, had a couple of seasons under the belt, and went overseas. No wonder that both teams are 10th and 11th despite being 1st and 2nd last season. 

We NEED to get quality players in who can not only deliver on the field, but also guide the younger players coming through. 
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about 1 year ago · edited about 1 year ago · History
The problem we now have is that AFC are gonna build their women's team and academy which will mean we no longer have the pull of having the best facilites in the country, nor are we the only pathway for young talent in NZ to get into the Aleague. If we arent't winning or at least challenging for the title often then the young kids are gonna look at AFC's academy instead which means we'll have less options of decent players to be sold on.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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about 1 year ago · edited about 1 year ago · History
I do believe Chiefy should go at the end of the season, though it is unlikely he will given the unambitious nature of the club. And if he somehow does depart, in all likelihood he gets replaced by Greenacre (at least temporarily). Even if that didn't happen, it's a long, long off-season, plenty of time to find a replacement manager. So whether it is to be Chiefy out or not, there's really no need to rush into that decision.

For now, we know our playoff hopes are gone. At the moment we are hearing that Payne, Rufer & Chico are some way from being fully fit (I'm going to give Chiefy the benefit of the doubt and assume this isn't him just making excuses). Ishige was apparently ill this week, Piper was still suffering the effects of the Pijnaker "tackle" going into the game. And Rojas is still a couple weeks from being a starting player.

I'm going to wait and see how Chiefy does with a fully fit team. I want to hear in a pre-match press conference that all our best players are fully fit or at least very close to it, rather than hearing the sort of stuff from my previous paragraph. Then, I'm going to give him that game, and the game after that, and see how he does in those two games. If we didn't look much better in those two games than we have looked over the last 3 months, then there are no excuses and it should be untenable for him to stay.
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about 1 year ago
theprof
The problem we now have is that AFC are gonna build their women's team and academy which will mean we no longer have the pull of having the best facilites in the country, nor are we the only pathway for young talent in NZ to get into the Aleague. If we arent't winning or at least challenging for the title often then the young kids are gonna look at AFC's academy instead which means we'll have less options of decent players to be sold on.

If I think about every talented academy kid we've had that's come from north of say Taupo, well none of them will be coming to Wellington going foward.

What's more I wonder how desirable Wellington will even be as a destination for even the southern based talent, Auckland is a bigger, more interesting place for a youngster than the Hutt Valley.
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about 1 year ago
I don't know if that's true, plenty of people come from north of Taupo to study in Wellington, why would football be any different?
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about 1 year ago · edited about 1 year ago · History
Ryan
I don't know if that's true, plenty of people come from north of Taupo to study in Wellington, why would football be any different?

Alot of Cantabs I know hate Auckland, and have been to visit Australia more than NZ's biggest city. Those with kids would I feel rather have their offspring live closer to them in smaller Welly. Big bad Auckland might as well be the moon.

And then on a pure football development agenda, at which club is a young talented kid currently likely to debut first? The Nix every time. 

LBS from the Waikato was courted by AFC, but the Phoenix won his signature, and he's already had significant mins this season. More if not injured. At Auckland he would barely have played this season if at all.

If AFC keep most of their current squad next season, it's gonna be the same. Limited opportunities, for young U20 guys. Until their Academy is up & going fully, it could stay that way. Esp as you feel they are heavily focussed on immediate success, and winning trophies.

I just see it becoming a de facto, split of yeah Taupo north re youth recruitment. With more northern youngsters heading south to the Nix than the reverse. Just because some kids & their parents will feel the Phoenix are more likely to debut young players a bit earlier. 

And everyone is in a hurry. Remember the rumours about GSR's Brazilian dad (who is a football coach in Hong Kong), reportedly asking the Nix to give him mins, otherwise the family would look to send him to an overseas club. Some story like that.
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about 1 year ago
At the moment we build players, they buy them.  I agree that means our academy kids will get earlier opportunities to get playing time and starts.  And that will be a point of difference.

And it is their buying players rather than building them which makes them a stronger side this year.

It'll be interesting if and how that changes in the future.  

I think our biggest issue was that we did not quickly replace Cola and Marco when they were known to be out long term.  So we had too many young kids on the field together too often in their first season in the squad.  Easier said than done, to replace experienced players during the season, and the Ball situation probably held things up there.
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about 1 year ago · edited about 1 year ago · History
The "we build they buy" mantra will only last another 2-3 seasons. Once they have their academy built and up and running the pull of a club with a trophy or two will be equally as important to getting minutes in a mid table team.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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about 1 year ago · edited about 1 year ago · History
Watching Auckland. 2-0 up in 15 minutes and 10 points clear at the top of the table, against the team who were second coming into this round.

There are no good teams in this league apart from Auckland and yet Chiefy still has us looking worse than almost every team in it. 
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about 1 year ago
I would still give Chiefy another season. I mean the dude guided us to our best ever season albeit with different players. Better recruitment and more tactical flexibility should be the way to go.
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about 1 year ago
NZPhoenixFan
I would still give Chiefy another season. I mean the dude guided us to our best ever season albeit with different players. Better recruitment and more tactical flexibility should be the way to go.

Sure but what happens if we get a repeat of this season? i.e. we bring in guys who look good on paper but either get injured for most (or all) of the season or just end up being unimpressive? In the process meaning we never change how we play because Chief refuses to try something new.

As others have said I don't want to watch more of this for a whole other season
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about 1 year ago
Chiefy knows the season has been shark, and the football a dire watch. He openly said at the start of the season, that the aim was to play differently to last season. More stylish, more possession based, team built around Marco. 

He's still a young head coach. Does he have the coaching ability and recruiting nous, to build a team to play more attractive winning football in the ALM?

That's the question. It's not one of him, not wanting to play that way.
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about 1 year ago
I've just realised that even if you combine the points of the mens and womens team, we are still one point short of Akl.  😭
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about 1 year ago · edited about 1 year ago · History
Niche Cache already looking at next season.

https://theniche-cache.com/football/2025/3/6/shifting-the-focus-to-next-season-for-the-wellington-phoenix-blokes

Is Giancarlo Italiano Still The Bloke To Lead Them?
Chiefy signed a two-year contract when he stepped up to the head coaching role at the Wellington Phoenix. That means that, as things stand, he only has a couple more months to go. It was surprising that they never managed to sort out an extension off the back of 2023-24’s success despite constant chatter about ongoing negotiations. That could be something that Italiano lives to regret given what a contrast his second term has been to his first. Stock prices may have dropped.

Italiano was recently asked upfront whether he expects to still be the coach next season and he made it bluntly clear that he does. But there was also a joker flying a Cheify Out flag at the last home game and there’s no doubt that the fans are getting tetchy. The results are one thing but the style of play has also come under fire for its perceived defensive excesses. Is that a fair assessment? That depends. This team has only scored multiple times in 4/18 games so far and have scored the second-fewest goals in the competition. They also rank second-last in possession and expected goals (xG), and last for big chances created, accurate crosses, touches in the opponent’s box, and attacking corners. The evidence is damning. The results have been nasty and they’re not much fun to watch.

But is that the coach’s fault? Clearly he holds some responsibility but also he’s got a squad that’s much weaker than last season and which has been regularly hampered by injuries. There’s nothing about their style of play that’s drastically different to last season when nobody had a problem with it (even though they weren’t a particularly good attacking then either – it was all built on outstanding defence). Chiefy just doesn’t have the players to make it work. If they suddenly start scoring goals with Geraldes and Rojas hanging around then the focus would surely have to shift towards squad-building deficiencies. If not then yeah maybe the tactics will need to go through the washing machine.

As far as the Nix hierarchy is concerned, there’s another aspect to this and that’s whether they’d be able to find anyone better. The usual course of events at this club is to promote from within which would probably lean towards Adam Griffiths. To be honest, that wouldn’t be a bad hire. But that’s supposing they decide to move past The Chief and taking recent emotions out of the equation, what he achieved against the odds in Year One was a lot more unexpected than the downfall of Year Two (for which it’s not even clear how culpable he should be). Surely he’s earned the opportunity to take the good with the bad and try figure it out in Year Three. Continuity is a hard thing to find at a club with player turnover as high as this. You’ve gotta be very careful not to unnecessarily spoil it any further.
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about 1 year ago
On a separate note for those who aren't aware the Preston Lions and South Melbourne are clashing in the NPL Vic tonight at 10pm NZST. Worth a watch since it's got a lot of history to it and people reckon it'll have a better turnout than the Melb.C game which is playing simultaneously 

Dunno if it belongs on this thread but oh well
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about 1 year ago
How many times have they promoted from within? Only Italiano isn’t it?
coochiee
Niche Cache already looking at next season.

https://theniche-cache.com/football/2025/3/6/shifting-the-focus-to-next-season-for-the-wellington-phoenix-blokes

Is Giancarlo Italiano Still The Bloke To Lead Them?
Chiefy signed a two-year contract when he stepped up to the head coaching role at the Wellington Phoenix. That means that, as things stand, he only has a couple more months to go. It was surprising that they never managed to sort out an extension off the back of 2023-24’s success despite constant chatter about ongoing negotiations. That could be something that Italiano lives to regret given what a contrast his second term has been to his first. Stock prices may have dropped.

Italiano was recently asked upfront whether he expects to still be the coach next season and he made it bluntly clear that he does. But there was also a joker flying a Cheify Out flag at the last home game and there’s no doubt that the fans are getting tetchy. The results are one thing but the style of play has also come under fire for its perceived defensive excesses. Is that a fair assessment? That depends. This team has only scored multiple times in 4/18 games so far and have scored the second-fewest goals in the competition. They also rank second-last in possession and expected goals (xG), and last for big chances created, accurate crosses, touches in the opponent’s box, and attacking corners. The evidence is damning. The results have been nasty and they’re not much fun to watch.

But is that the coach’s fault? Clearly he holds some responsibility but also he’s got a squad that’s much weaker than last season and which has been regularly hampered by injuries. There’s nothing about their style of play that’s drastically different to last season when nobody had a problem with it (even though they weren’t a particularly good attacking then either – it was all built on outstanding defence). Chiefy just doesn’t have the players to make it work. If they suddenly start scoring goals with Geraldes and Rojas hanging around then the focus would surely have to shift towards squad-building deficiencies. If not then yeah maybe the tactics will need to go through the washing machine.

As far as the Nix hierarchy is concerned, there’s another aspect to this and that’s whether they’d be able to find anyone better. The usual course of events at this club is to promote from within which would probably lean towards Adam Griffiths. To be honest, that wouldn’t be a bad hire. But that’s supposing they decide to move past The Chief and taking recent emotions out of the equation, what he achieved against the odds in Year One was a lot more unexpected than the downfall of Year Two (for which it’s not even clear how culpable he should be). Surely he’s earned the opportunity to take the good with the bad and try figure it out in Year Three. Continuity is a hard thing to find at a club with player turnover as high as this. You’ve gotta be very careful not to unnecessarily spoil it any further.
How often have they promoted from within? Italiano and who else?
coochiee
Niche Cache already looking at next season.

https://theniche-cache.com/football/2025/3/6/shifting-the-focus-to-next-season-for-the-wellington-phoenix-blokes

Is Giancarlo Italiano Still The Bloke To Lead Them?
Chiefy signed a two-year contract when he stepped up to the head coaching role at the Wellington Phoenix. That means that, as things stand, he only has a couple more months to go. It was surprising that they never managed to sort out an extension off the back of 2023-24’s success despite constant chatter about ongoing negotiations. That could be something that Italiano lives to regret given what a contrast his second term has been to his first. Stock prices may have dropped.

Italiano was recently asked upfront whether he expects to still be the coach next season and he made it bluntly clear that he does. But there was also a joker flying a Cheify Out flag at the last home game and there’s no doubt that the fans are getting tetchy. The results are one thing but the style of play has also come under fire for its perceived defensive excesses. Is that a fair assessment? That depends. This team has only scored multiple times in 4/18 games so far and have scored the second-fewest goals in the competition. They also rank second-last in possession and expected goals (xG), and last for big chances created, accurate crosses, touches in the opponent’s box, and attacking corners. The evidence is damning. The results have been nasty and they’re not much fun to watch.

But is that the coach’s fault? Clearly he holds some responsibility but also he’s got a squad that’s much weaker than last season and which has been regularly hampered by injuries. There’s nothing about their style of play that’s drastically different to last season when nobody had a problem with it (even though they weren’t a particularly good attacking then either – it was all built on outstanding defence). Chiefy just doesn’t have the players to make it work. If they suddenly start scoring goals with Geraldes and Rojas hanging around then the focus would surely have to shift towards squad-building deficiencies. If not then yeah maybe the tactics will need to go through the washing machine.

As far as the Nix hierarchy is concerned, there’s another aspect to this and that’s whether they’d be able to find anyone better. The usual course of events at this club is to promote from within which would probably lean towards Adam Griffiths. To be honest, that wouldn’t be a bad hire. But that’s supposing they decide to move past The Chief and taking recent emotions out of the equation, what he achieved against the odds in Year One was a lot more unexpected than the downfall of Year Two (for which it’s not even clear how culpable he should be). Surely he’s earned the opportunity to take the good with the bad and try figure it out in Year Three. Continuity is a hard thing to find at a club with player turnover as high as this. You’ve gotta be very careful not to unnecessarily spoil it any further.
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about 1 year ago
Rollo points out Auckland need 1 point tomorrow to ensure we mathematically cannot catch them. Also that we are on the verge of losing 5 straight for the first time in our history. 
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about 1 year ago
imanixsupporter
Rollo points out Auckland need 1 point tomorrow to ensure we mathematically cannot catch them. Also that we are on the verge of losing 5 straight for the first time in our history. 

I guess someone will have to come up with a local equivalent of St Totteringham Day https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/St_Totteringham%27s_Day#English




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about 1 year ago
NZPhoenixFan
I would still give Chiefy another season. I mean the dude guided us to our best ever season albeit with different players. Better recruitment and more tactical flexibility should be the way to go.

I'd give him until January 2026, so halfway through next season. If things are looking as hapless as they do now get someone else in asap
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about 1 year ago
NZPhoenixFan
I would still give Chiefy another season. I mean the dude guided us to our best ever season albeit with different players. Better recruitment and more tactical flexibility should be the way to go.

I'd give him until January 2026, so halfway through next season. If things are looking as hapless as they do now get someone else in asap
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about 1 year ago
Just checked the Sky Stadium attendance so far.
We average 9000 per game.
If we take the derby away we sit around 7200/game
We are 5th place on the Crowd Ladder.
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about 1 year ago
number8
Just checked the Sky Stadium attendance so far.
We average 9000 per game.
If we take the derby away we sit around 7200/game
We are 5th place on the Crowd Ladder.
astonishing.
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about 1 year ago
Imagine the crowds if we could shoot on goal!!

Auckland will rise once more

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12 months ago
Unsure if this is the correct thread to post this, but hearing through the grapevine there's going to be a big announcement to do with a pre-season tournament in July... There'll be a series of matches across Aus/NZ possibly Asia with some big teams involved. Maybe we can beat a Premier League team again! (although I don't know who's coming) 
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12 months ago
It is official, Sydney's draw means they are 10 points ahead in 6th with 3 games left. No finals for us, guaranteed. Well, if there aren't any crazy points deductions, guess that is in theory possible. 
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12 months ago
Was gonna put this in the match thread, but think that this is probably more appropriate:

I mean, the club have a lot of questions to ask themselves, that much is true. But can’t help but think they’ll give him a long term deal because he’s cheap and a known entity. I’m still undecided if I want him in or out, probably still err on in as I like him, and things have changed over the last month compared to the eye bleeding sharke of the rest of the season 

Think the unused sub pod was spot on that the season has been a massive fudge up and they’ve lost so many (50%?) casual fans to Auckland through no fault but their own. A huge offseason ahead for the club, and that’s excluding the players we need to bring in. There is absolutely no hype or comms around the club, social media and physical media is pretty much non existent. That match in AI cartoon last week? wtf. Pretty much summed the club up this season.
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11 months ago · edited 11 months ago · History


Auckland playing finals.

We'll (likely) be playing in fudgeing Darwin.

I know what I'll be watching! 😄 


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11 months ago
YoungHeartHM


Auckland playing finals.

We'll (likely) be playing in fudgeing Darwin.

I know what I'll be watching! 😄 



probably both knowing you ;-)

is this sort of our finals? are these games between A-League sides only? I'm fearing an NPL reversal

360footballnews.com

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11 months ago
YoungHeartHM


Auckland playing finals.

We'll (likely) be playing in fudgeing Darwin.

I know what I'll be watching! 😄 


YF tour of duty in Darwin what could possibly go wrong

GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS

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11 months ago · edited 11 months ago · History
reg22
YoungHeartHM


Auckland playing finals.

We'll (likely) be playing in fudgeing Darwin.

I know what I'll be watching! 😄 



probably both knowing you ;-)

is this sort of our finals? are these games between A-League sides only? I'm fearing an NPL reversal

This is our finals series!

Only the bottom four A-League sides involved, sounds like the two winners make the Cup for later on in the year, the others are knocked out. So at least we don't have the excuse of it being pre-season this time round.

Also, Auckland watching is maybe 40% of what I watch of the Nix. 😜
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11 months ago · edited 11 months ago · History
ballane
YoungHeartHM


Auckland playing finals.

We'll (likely) be playing in fudgeing Darwin.

I know what I'll be watching! 😄 


YF tour of duty in Darwin what could possibly go wrong

End of season piss up sounds great!

We should also (without looking at a map or straight line distances between cities) be more than halfway to Perth, so should be able to wave off Sutts and Wootton on the same trip...
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11 months ago
Well the best time to visit Darwin is definitely in the winter months. It's horrible to visit otherwise. Sauna like.

For anyone seriously considering going - Kakadu National Park is well worth a visit. It's huge. Just don't swim in the rivers or ocean unless you want to be croc food.

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11 months ago
A chance to see the evolution of the team for the next season. Still need fit players, probably the fittest players to get through there even if it isn’t summer.


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