The Travelling Circus - playing home games around NZ

I think you are looking to shortsighted. Sure the away numbers are not good on paper, but it's a Nix showcase to get fans outside wellington engaged and then follow it on TV, or come down to the ROF to watch the occasional game. I think it is pretty much the only way to grow fan numbers. Those tours are here for the long run and stuff to learn from. That said, I hate them, too.

Smithy I know two fans from my work personally whom were interested in travelling but then chose not to. They can for the most part be found in the zone. Also, I offered two others from work and another from out of work, a free trip to NP to experience a game and they too declined. Hence I travelled up alone and home alone. I reckon we can consider that losing fans. A free friggen trip turned down.

I think you're all massively over-reacting on this one. 

Some of the most fun I've ever had as a Feverite has been on away tours. I even met my missus on one, Lord help us both.

Sometimes it's inconvenient, but other times it's pretty sweet. And it's not actually doing the Phoenix any demonstrable harm. 

So cheer up.

Thanks for your opinion. 

IMHO, I don't think that there is any question that the away/home games are great fun, & I haven't seen much evidence that suggests people have not enjoyed traveling, but it is the same group of people that go to the majority of these games, & they only number a few hundred (approximately), that means that most of the season ticket holders that go to Wellington games, do not travel to the "away/home" games. After this season, I cannot see any value for me in buying a season ticket, if I can get better deals throughout the year. 

As for not doing any demonstrable harm, you've got to be effing joking. Look at the crowd numbers, look at the people that would never miss a game, but now can't even make it all the games in Wellington, myself & yourself (Smithy) included in that group!

The novelty value of the Phoenix coming to town has failed to produce the impact around the country that it was hoped it would, so it's time to focus on the half million people in the greater Wellington region, as, unfortunately (apart from a small number of supporters) the rest of NZ have indicated that they can't be arsed!

so no point going on any more?

Wasn't that a preseason friendly to the ring of concrete, not a Traveling Circus game?

I think some of you are under estimating the affect the away circus may be having.Yes it may not have much affect on the surface to attendances.But from experience i think it has an affect on getting casuals to buy into the team.Bloody hard getting people to a game at times then when you do get them there and they ask about the next game   and they find its weeks away i have found their interest abates.Also it may be fine for some of you to travel to the away circus but there are MANY whose circumstances dictate they just cant do these trips no matter how much they may want to.

End of the day until our team can show some decent form on a consistent basis then it wouldnt matter if all our games were at home  our attendances wont change much

And that performance was dross at best. Nice playing surface though.

Should just rename the club to the Nz Phoenix FC and get it over with. Its criminal how they can get away with it when almost a third of all home games are played outside Wellington. It's not like there's any room or motivation for expansion in NZ for another team.

You're welcome, thanks also for yours.

I think maybe the difference is that you (and ballane) are looking at it from an ' is it good for me/does it please me' perspective (ie: I can't make games out of town that I could make if they were in Wellington; games out of town diminish the value of my season ticket) rather than an 'is it good for the club' perspective.

Looked at purely from the club's perspective the case is pretty debatable either way, and so not worth getting in a tizzy over.

Sure there are some season ticket holders in Wellington like me who miss a game, but there are also some fans in New Plymouth who get to see one. Which is more valuable to the Phoenix is hard to nail down. 

Looked at another way we lose our 'home advantage', which is stink, but we (often/probably) gain a guaranteed level of revenue for a game (underwritten by councils), which is pretty helpful for the sustainability of the club one would imagine.

It's a line ball, for sure, but I can't see any 'you have to be effing joking' argument. 

Probably the crowds out of town are as much driven by Phoenix performance and marketing as home crowds. There have been some big crowds in Auckland and Christchurch, and some rubbish ones in Napier and New Plymouth. 

I don't think you can conclusively draw a parallel between games out of town and average attendance in Wellington. In fact, I think for all the chat the only thing that has really clearly improved attendance at Phoenix games no matter the venue is performance. Shark team, shark crowd. Nothing at all to do with travelling circus.

And for the record yes, I met the missus on a preseason trip to Palmy but the point wasn't about it being an in season or out of season game, the point was about away trips being fun, so adding something to the season.

The Phoenix already have at least one day a week less training than the other teams because of travel obligations, it's crazy that they have the same situation at home as well. Surely the travel takes a toll on performance.

There are a number of games that have to be taken outside of Wellington because of clashes with the stadium, and there are also games around Christmas and New Years that are always going to have low attendance in Wellington. Those games should be the ones outside of Wellington (which this New Plymouth one was).

I have spoken with quite a few fans who are no longer season ticket holders & no longer go to most games because they get more entertainment value for their dollar, elsewhere! Another reason I have heard often is that casual supporters don't know when the games are on in Wellington so they have made other plans.

WPFC is a business that is competing for the discretionary dollar & I'm sure that our VERY successful owners have had businesses that have struggled before. They have probably taken measures to rectify the problem, be it hiring different personnel, introducing new product, rebranding, aiming for a different demographic, etc. But, when one approach (Traveling Circus) is NOT working, it's time to try something else.

Welnix keep telling us we have to get the crowds up, but we are the crowd, they need to be targeting people who do not currently go to the games in Wellington. 

I appreciate tremendously all the time & money that Welnix have already invested in the club, but, I believe that they have to spend more to make this work, if Welnix won't invest more money into the club, & not rely on handouts from whatever District Councils are willing to chip in to have a poorly promoted game in their town, then I fear that the club will go the same way as our northern predecessors!

Games on the road also brings other revenue to the club. 

Once someone buys a scarf in Wellington for a game, unless they lose it they don't need another

The fan in New Plymouth may now have a new one

Sorry Smithy you are wrong in drawing that conclusion about my thoughts on the traveling circus. My opinion has nothing at all with the so called diminishing the value of my season ticket. I choose not to attend the home /away games because frankly i just dont like them. Im afraid i also just cant see the benefit of them when they are attracting the crowds they do.

Like some others  i would love to see a sustained effort put into trying to attract crowds from within our region because im afraid i dont think anyone can suggest that this has been done at any stage in out history well not on a consistent basis anyway.

Frankly i just fail to see how taking the team away for extended periods can in any way have a positive affect on crowds.

As an aside Smithy i had intended this season to travel to every game both home and away but when the draw came out i tossed that aside as i was that PO 4 games being taken away in what should have us celebrating 10 years as the Wellington Phoenix.Instead those dollars have been used elsewhere sad really as i was looking forward to it but just couldnt bring myself to support 4 home /away games.

Yep maybe Im stupid but hey i signed on to support the Wellington Phoenix and  while my record isnt as good as LGs im still pretty proud im a foundation member who has attended every  game at the stadium. I seem to have been also silly enough to believe the line that Welnix "did it for Wellington" which it what they said when they took over.

Anyway as others have said if the team could perform better that would go along way to helping with attendances.

I miss football :-(

You've hit the nail on the head there Ballane, the team need to perform on the field for the fans to come back.  And more needs to be done to engage & embrace the Wellington fans.

I sincerely hope things improve for the 2017/2018 season. Otherwise, if it doesn't, we best enjoy the next 3 years cause that will be it for us.

Thanks for your constructive contributions to the discussion!!!

Or is this a flow chart of the Phoenix's marketing plan for the next 12 months!

I thought the FFA took all the money from merchandise?

Maybe but its not like Wellington has had much of a chance lately! We get lumped with late Sunday night "Family" fixtures, months on end without a game so that the pitch can be prepared for Guns and Roses, and a sudden huddle of games around new year when every shark is out of town.

Not sure why people think the away games have reduced crowds here.

We've always had away games. So there isn't anything new in that regard. Regardless, if people aren't going to 10 games a season they aren't going to go to 14 games.

The biggest thing that has changed this season is having Saturday night games. For 8 seasons we've almost exclusively had a Sunday afternoon games and that attracted a lot of families. It's also a time zone that doesn't have much competition for events. Now suddenly, the FFA/fox have given us Saturday games which isn't particularly family friendly and puts us into a different customer market. So that 8 years of building up a certain customer base has been flipped upside down. There is a lot more competition at that time. So the causal has far more options. Our membership numbers are pretty similar to last year, which indicates we aren't getting as many casual punters in.

Wait, I thought the whinge was that Sunday games were no good for families? It's almost as if... As if some people are always going to find excuses not to come!

Naaaah.

Well that is basically fandom in New Zealand. Most people only love winners.

I would be very interested to see the breakdown of the "membership" numbers. Last year we had the $20 kids membership & save the Nix. This year we have the Hatrick, Nix Six, Northern Membership,Three game Pass , as well as season tickets. These are all counted as memberships, so the membership numbers are NOT similar to last year, they have been diluted. 

We have had away games for many years, BUT, we haven't had three consecutive away games with crowds under 6000, before this season. 

If you buy a season ticket for 14 games, you expect to be able to go to 14 games. 

If you buy a season ticket to the Phoenix you get to go to 10 games in Wellington & then you have to travel over 4000km extra,at your own expense, to see the other four games. A lot of supporters cannot justify that expense, especially families, which are the demographic that the Phoenix have been targeting!!!!!!!!!

As a supporter that bought five season tickets last year, I have purchased three season tickets this year, plus three Hatrick Memberships. Does that mean that I have bought 6 memberships? No it doesn't, but I bet that it's counted as 6 memberships!

The casual punter hasn't got a clue when the Phoenix are playing at HOME! That, along with us playing shyte, is why our Wellington crowds have reduced!

So I don't quite agree with your conclusion that membership numbers have been diluted this season.

The season membership is clearly priced for 10 games. 

The game at QBE on the 4th of March is the same day as the day night ODI between NZ and South Africa.  Wonder where Aucklanders will spend their sporting dollar. I hope they do another grab one deal to sell more tickets.  Though I guess that also depends where we are on the table in March.

Bollocks!

Not so sure that to many people have said the away circus has lead to a reduction in crowds. The problem i have had is getting casuals to buy into the Phoenix when we have these large breaks away from home.Yes in some cases they are out of the Phoenixs control but Joe casual dosnt get that all they no is that why should they get involved when they are not here for weeks at a time.

They have done some good things this season,its only taken 10 seasons to get junior footballers a ticket.Lets hope they follow it up this season as thats where out future members are going to come from.

Sadly we are stuck with the FFA and Fox deciding our fixtures and over the years we have had some just plain stupid scheduling.

Tegal, Patrick, Dale, Smithy all toeing the company line. Nice. 

far from it. I'd prefer 14 games in Wellington. Although I do enjoy our away tours as well. Ballane has a point about long breaks making it hard to build support during a season. But I'm not sure that has hindered our crowds too much, it probably makes our minimum crowd a bit smaller. 

There are positives to the home away games too, but ultimately we need to be getting more than 5k to justify them in my opinion. I've suggested a few ways in the WSW game thread which may help in that. 

I don't like them, but I've got to the point of accepting them as a reality of our situation. Plus I can actually accept a game in New Plymouth as something of a regional game that counts as Wellington, the Hurricanes play up there too (although not so often lately). I also think an Auckland game later in the season (the March game) is a good idea as it'll hopefully cash in and boost our crowd average if we are having a good season. 

I don't know what the company line is, but there are just a few of my thoughts. 

I did see that & I agree, but then you tried to say my point about the dilution of the memberships wasn't valid because the memberships have been diluted for a number of years!

Sounds like the memberships are diluted to me!

That is why I initially said "it would be interesting to see a breakdown of the memberships"!!!!!!

I stand corrected, you have correctly pointed out that they were diluted last year as well!!