Wellington Phoenix Men

Time to Sort S**t Out - CCM - Match Fred

457 replies · 3,808 views
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
DEFINITION OF OPTIMISM
 
At the stadium, I said to the girl on the ticket counter, "how much for a 4 year old?"
 
She said "Free, but she doesnt get to have her own seat, she has to sit on your lap".
 
Hmmm, only 30,000 spare seats to choose from!! We managed.
 
 
 
Also, one reason I took my daughter is this game is one of the few I wil be able to , because of kick off times.   I would have thought either Sundays at 3pm or Fridays at 7:30pm would be the best times/
 
 
 
 
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
tigers wrote:
Whitby boy wrote:

I would really like us to start the same back 4 next week as we started with today - even Graeme Henry has finally learned the value of not changing a winning combination. By winning I mean the back 4 didn't concede a goal - it's not broken - don't try and fix it. Let them play together some more and develop a combination and understandings. In McKain and Durante we have the makings of a very good defence.

Our problem is the midfield - that's what needs to be sorted out.
 
without Mossy, it might have been fairly described as broken
 
but i do agree that a consistent back four is a objective worth aiming for
 
 


And get Petrovski back to miss a couple of one on ones/free headers. But no I think you might be right this is our best combination in defence. And if we could keep the ball for a few passes they might not have as much work to do.


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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
bopman wrote:
Midfielder wrote:
Whats happen to your crowds .........10, 516, 6110, & 6, 926, totalling 23, 552  for the first three games; last season crowds totalled 38, 026 in your first 3 games.Two broad issues, first in view that there are at least 10 serious bidders for A-League spots over here and the league wants to be seen as growing and even if crowds fall not to extent yours have ..... 14, 500 odd in 3 matches almost 5, 000 per match, what kinda message is this sending FFA........ more importantly does such a fall hurt the FFA in its pushing for the next media deal and sponsors. I am not assuming there is any risk but if things don't improve crowd wise it will place a lot of pressure on Frank Lowy who is the one who wants a NZ side in the league to justify his call.
 

Second reading pre season reports coming out of WP, crowds were accepted to increase so assume you are 7, 000 down per match on budget .......... say this reamins the same over 10 rounds, 70, 000 people at say $ 12.00 per head. Meaning shortfall on budget of $840, 00  ....   OK figures pulled out of the air by myself ........but no one in Australia saw a fall in crowds only and increase ........ what does this do to your budget and ability to sign a top player next year.

 

Hope your numbers pisck up for the Perth match.

I think today's crowd was about what i expected. Couple of things happening over here today, well mainly the Warriors which will have affected todays crowd. Also MF you obviously don't know about what is going on in other sports in Wellington but the Wellington rugby team is top in the provincial competition, 7 from 7 playing attacking rugby. They are getting good crowds which will be affecting ours.
But as has been said in so many other threads it isnt funny, we start winning we will get crowds!
 
I hope you are right Bopman and the crowd was greatly affected by other events........ I saw some in latter posts predicting 5K crowds for uncoming matches...... do that often enough and aside from the financial stress that will place the club under ........ it will draw a lot of attention from Australia.
 
I saw a report prepared for the Mariners in Hal 2, this is after the Foxs deal and the money the FFA give clubs and it had two general but not absolute figures, first an A-League team costs about 6 million to run and to break even a crowd of 13K to 15K is needed plus spnsors plus shirt and caps sales etc
 
A simple scale for every 1, 000 people who come and watch say 11 matches (Nix this year I think) at say $ 12.00 per ticket is $ 12, 000 * 11 matches which is $ 132, 000. Averge 10K thats 1, 320, 000;....... average 15K thats 1, 980, 000;...... average 8K thats 1, 056, 000. Add shirt sales etc for larger crowds. You can play with the figures I don't know your ticket cost and if $12.00 is a good or a bad average but it is clear to see the affect on income alone of poor crowds aside from the general image problems.

Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Another dissapointment for me. also... thanks to El**ch. i have 700 got pie posters to deal to. we were thinking about sending a whole load of them to him in the mail. maybe one a day. that will piss him off. if you are keen on helping (postage cost wise) send me an email too.. stefan.alletson@whs.school.nz                 i dont know how this message will show up. as i am writing this on my cellphone... where there is a will there is a way oska.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
be interesting to see if we retain this more direct (and frequently possesion-losing) style
 
i can see why Ricki might have adopted it following two heavy losses in a row
 
is it the now plan for the season or just a temporary measure to i)  lift us of the bottom and ii) win  at Perth?
 
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
tigers wrote:
be interesting to see if we retain this more direct (and frequently possesion-losing) style
 
i can see why Ricki might have adopted it following two heavy losses in a row
 
is it the now plan for the season or just a temporary measure to i)  lift us of the bottom and ii) win  at Perth?
 
Yeah it will be interesting however for it to work the players need to be releasing the ball earlier and not taking that extra couple of steps which means by then the player meant to be getting the ball has been shut down.Would also help if some of the players made some genuine runs instead of just a couple of paces.As we saw last nite there were many times when coming out of defence we just wernt giving the player with the ball enough options out wide and when they were wide they just stood there like a stunned mullet with little movement.

Some of you really need to keep the faith,although we may be disapointed with the result,given how our last 2 games went last nite was move in the wrong direction.

As for the crowd i reckon the club has made a mistake by taking so many sunday games at that time as it really is a pain for many trying to get home on a sunday with our rubbish transport system.Do we have a marketing department as promotion certainly dosnt seem to be very visible in the days leading up to a game.

GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
jamesnz wrote:
Match against Perth is in Perth, so not a heap we can do about that. The crowd numbers drop is worrying though. I moved overseas since last season so I can account for one of those missing at the match, but it's surprising how many less are coming this season.
 
Todays match clashed with the Warriors playoff as well - pity about the scheduling.


Our last two matches have been rubbish, the Lions are on a run, marketing is virtually nil compared to last year yet the crowd was 900 bigger than last time...

...Meh
 
And of course the prices have gone up. Last season a family pass including booking fee was $56, this season its $73 plus with a 5pm start the kids are going to be hungry.

A dog with a bone :)

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I have faith - you wont see me cry sack Ricki or I'm not supporting the Phoenix, however they are playing rubbish, picking players that are playing rubbish and picking rubbish players.

Forget Ferrante, Dodd and Johnson (as much as I am a Johnson fan) - they need a new CM pairing. One hard prick to win the ball (Maybe thats Tim Brown but couldn't say for sure as he'd get sent off) and one to share it about (Daniel could do that).

I honestly believe the key to better football through the middle is bringing Daniel in from the left and getting him involved. He has defensive frailties but he has the skills and the creativity. Outside of that option, and it has to be an option because we haven't tried it yet over the other failures, the solution to our midfield probably does not lie within this squad.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Utter mince yeserday - there was a phase from about 15-35min when we were playing some decent football, but the rest of the game we were lumping the ball up the park - look like 1-9-1 formation, as soon as anybody got the ball from Mossy it was punted in the general direction of the opponents goals.
I'd love to see what the %age of completed passes in the final third, I would hazard a guess at less than 20%.
As I said to kiwi_jambo - last season was like watching Hibs - open attacking football and getting beat. This year is like watching Hearts, route one industrial hoofball and getting beat!.

We're going to struggle to retain any decent sized crowds at this rate.

When Hibs, went up, to win the Scottish Cup - I wisnae there - furfuxake!

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The Dominion Post headline for the match report by Fred Woodcock is "Gutsy Phoenix prove a point".  What point would that be?  Woodcock refers to the Phoenix having "resolve, character, intensity, commitment, hunger, and good oldfashioned ticker".  What game was he at?  And Ricki appears to indicate a good defensive display.  The defence was ripped apart - saved by the post once, the crossbar once, 3 or 4 brilliant saves by Moss, and, if you're a believer, probably God.  It's time to stop kidding ourselves and make some changes.  With the type of performances and tactics so far this season, we're going to get beaten more often then not.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The 'point' is on the board/table :P

I think we at least played like we were trying this week, but that should be elementary.  We fell back into the habit of hoofing balls downfield to noone and trying fancy passes with way too low success rates.  We need to have a strong short passing game - and that should be based out of midfield.

Which brings me to the next problem... where was our midfield?  Because everyone fell right back we'd clear the ball from the box but there were never any midfielders up the park to either turn and counter attack or shut down mariners midfielders who were floating back there.  As a result we got pinned in our own box a few times and it wasn't till Mossy made saves and booted it downfield (almost invariably to them also) that we got free and back in formation.

Still on the positive side a clean sheet is rare and always welcomed, and every point is going to count the way we're currently playing so not all bad.  Plus Perth is next week so we need to sort our game out before then or we could be facing our first ever loss to the Glory.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
axmfc wrote:
The Dominion Post headline for the match report by Fred Woodcock is "Gutsy Phoenix prove a point".� What point would that be?� Woodcock refers to the Phoenix having "resolve, character, intensity, commitment, hunger, and good oldfashioned ticker".� What game was he at?� And Ricki appears to indicate a good defensive display.� The defence was ripped apart -�saved by the post once, the crossbar once,�3�or 4 brilliant saves by Moss, and, if you're a believer, probably God.� It's time to stop kidding ourselves and make some changes.� With the type of performances�and tactics so�far this season, we're going to get beaten more often then not.


Spot on. Just because we didn't conced doesn't mean we were commanding at the back. Moss was excellent, the frame of the goal too, and the ref helped out by not giving them what I thought was a clear penalty. On a different day they could have won 3-0, or 3-1.

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but defensively we haven't improved all that much since last season, and we only have one guy who can score. I really feel sorry for Smeltzy...

And I knew it wasn't to be a great day after I forgot to take my season pass with me, and only realised it at the Backbencher. Luckily, through a weird set of circumstances a mate had a spare one, so there was no need for a mad dash home...
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ballane wrote:

Would also help if some of the players made some genuine runs instead of just a couple of paces.As we saw last nite there were many times when coming out of defence we just wernt giving the player with the ball enough options out wide and when they were wide they just stood there like a stunned mullet with little movement.


This is an excellent point, I was groaning in frustration as some of our players' definition of a 'run' was to walk two paces away from the passer and then look at him...
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
On a positive note:
 
  • We were outplayed and awful, which makes it a huge improvement on Adelaide.
  • The framework for the goals are in exactly the right place - don't touch them!
  • The Ref was consistent
  • We didn't lose!
  • We have Moss. (first save after 3 mins down low was an absolute gem)

A sh*tload of people wanting to drop Moss two weeks ago are all going off about him on here and voting for him as MOM in another thread as well. Most saying thank god we've got him! Gotta make you laugh when you go back and read threads from after the Adelaide debacle. Nothing on this site should be taken seriously given the calibre of people putting the team down and I hope that all players stay well away.

Was that a fat Boy George in goal for CCM?

 
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Highlight for me was seeing a dead ringer for Fabio Capello in the Backbencher before the game.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

That was the ugliest point I have ever seen unfortunately. Talk about laboured play and overly complicated from defence into attack....yeah just keep walking up the field boys, playing the ball backwards to a guy with 3 defenders closing down on him from every side. Mulligan and his big diagonal long balls 1 from 12 connected champ. Unbelieviable inept play!! No direction from the midfield at all just hit and hope stuff. Pace wins games and where is ours!!! Even when we had 2 or 3 men in the box and a clear chance to cross....no chance of that ball going in because some idiot wants to take on the defender himself and inevitably turns over the ball.  Just basic fundamentals are lacking her in a big way. 

As for our Brazilian friend Daniel giving away silly fouls when we are on attack and letting opposition off the hook, did anyone else notice the best cross of the came came in to him, simple jump up and nod in the header from just outside the 6 yard box but no.....IQ of 16 flings himself up and attempts a bicycle kick.......air ball. Real high percentage play that one in a tight game. Instant substitution for that brain fart.
 
Contenders or pretenders is the big question at this stage isnt it? Unfortunately a long long way from being contenders at this stage for sure.
 
Moss 9, Durante 8, McKain 7 Mulligan 3, Lochhead 4, Dodd 4, Johnson 5, Hearfield 5, Daniel 4 and can we even rate Smeltz or Coveney? Did they get any quality ball at all, the answer is a definative NO.
 
Can anyone else name a coach of a professional football side that also coaches a National team? conflict of interest perhaps.....not to mention despite all his qualifications what seems to be a genuine lack of understanding of basic formations and tactics!!  
 
If professional football is going to succeed in Wellington or anywhere else then quite simply the product for the fans must be better. Disposable incomes are at their lowest point in decades and to think people will just keep shelling out to watch that garbage is very naive.
 
Not happy.     
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Last night I dreamed the NZ Knights played the CCM.   
 
The Knights played right up to their inadequate best - woeful on attack, dire in the midfield, and desperate on defense.
 
The only thing that confused me was that the game was played in Wgton. And the locals wore a Phoenix strip.
 
Thank goodness it was only a dream and those bad old days are just a distant memory.
 
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
was always gonna be 0-0 with Jono and Dodd in the middle. Get Gao more time. I like Hearfield, dont like Mulligan at the mo - get Sigi in there. Covs needs to stay onside.

Founder

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Why does that commentator call Coveny "Cove-iny"?

Is he lightly retarded?
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
oldboys15 wrote:
Not happy.     


Really ?  I'd missed that.
 
 
If he's not Happy, then possibly Grumpy? Dopey's already on here as Pavlos8
Royal2008-09-15 11:23:26
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feverish wrote:
was always gonna be 0-0 with Jono and Dodd in the middle. Get Gao more time. I like Hearfield, dont like Mulligan at the mo - get Sigi in there. Covs needs to stay onside.


Agreed!

Gao is fast and creative. give him support!
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

The amount of whining on here is tragic...

Yeah it wasn't a great game to watch.  But we took out first point from CCM (they beat us everytime last year remember??)
 
Also although the pre season doesn't count from a points perspective to put the whole season in context, the phoenix aren't doing any where near as badly as their predecessors...
 
So buck up you lot, stoping whining ad infinitum about how crap the game and the players were.  We all know the mdifield was sh*t etc, but we still got a point...
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Sneaky Butcher wrote:

The amount of whining on here is tragic...


Yeah it wasn't a great game to watch.� But we took out first point from CCM (they beat us everytime last year remember??)

�

Also although the pre season doesn't count from a points perspective to put the whole season in context, the phoenix aren't doing any where near as badly as their predecessors...

�

So buck up you lot, stoping whining ad infinitum about how crap the game and the players were.� We all know the mdifield was sh*t etc, but we still got a point...


Yeah but thats the whole point. We were expecting more this season and its not being delivered so of course people are going to complain. I'm not going to stop supporting them no matter how badly they play but this season the squad assembled looked like it could go places and they've failed to do that so far. So yes I am going to voice my complaints with how they performed because they can do much better.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
kiwi pie wrote:
Why does that commentator call Coveny "Cove-iny"?

Is he lightly retarded?


Lightly?

a.haak

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
jamesnz wrote:
What happened to Phoenix till I die...
 
It seems that it is Phoenix until its too late, cold, boring, the warriors are playing  etc etc etc. Stop the moaning about game times..you can wish all you like, it aint gonna change. So either accept that the kick off is 5pm and go or don't.

Where were the "fans" after the game? The players came off to an almost empty Fever Zone. Even Bosnich was trying to get a reaction as he came off but there was no one there to boo him.

The comparison is being made with the Lions and how good the crowds are but remember that the crowds have always been good (maybe not this good) for Lions over the years who have been sh*te..the Canes still average the highest crowd numbers in Super 14 and they haven't won it ever!!!!!

It's just my opinion but it seems that there are quite a few wannabe fans who make out like they are "hard and loyal" but 6900  on a sunny day? FFS maybe the chant has to be changed to "Where are ya?"

It has been said before in this thread....be careful you don't become Auckland and lose this team

Just an opinion from one who is always there

HN - Fixed Quote tags
Hard News2008-09-15 13:26:21
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Well said.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
buzz122 wrote:

....6900� on a sunny day? FFS maybe the chant has to be changed to "Where are ya?"It has been said before in this thread....be careful you don't become Auckland and lose this teamJust an opinion from one who is always there


For those of us scoffing at 6500 at NHS last week, last nigth was hardly a good advertisement to bring the World Cup playoff to Wellington
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Okay result...much better than our previous 2 performances.
 
Only our 3rd ever clean sheet, 1st of the season, and our 1st against someone other than Perth.
 
Srappy game, but history will say we defeneded wll and couldn't finish,

I say tackle him in the face.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
We were very luky not to concede a penalty or even 2. Only looked like scoring once.
No matter what anyone says this was crap and as professionals they played like 10 year olds.
Ferrante as far as I am concernce should be starting in that midfield and Dodd should be on the bench along with Daniel as an impact player. Costa should get a run this week and if not could the yellow fever crowd bring up a chant perhaps to let rikky know how everyone feels.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

so all of a sudden costa is going to be the saviour of the phoenix ?? were one win off 4th place ffs!

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
buzz122 wrote:
jamesnz wrote:
What happened to Phoenix till I die...
 
It seems that it is Phoenix until its too late, cold, boring, the warriors are playing  etc etc etc. Stop the moaning about game times..you can wish all you like, it aint gonna change. So either accept that the kick off is 5pm and go or don't.

Where were the "fans" after the game? The players came off to an almost empty Fever Zone. Even Bosnich was trying to get a reaction as he came off but there was no one there to boo him.

The comparison is being made with the Lions and how good the crowds are but remember that the crowds have always been good (maybe not this good) for Lions over the years who have been sh*te..the Canes still average the highest crowd numbers in Super 14 and they haven't won it ever!!!!!

It's just my opinion but it seems that there are quite a few wannabe fans who make out like they are "hard and loyal" but 6900  on a sunny day? FFS maybe the chant has to be changed to "Where are ya?"

It has been said before in this thread....be careful you don't become Auckland and lose this team

Just an opinion from one who is always there

HN - Fixed Quote tags
 
The problem with your argument is,the ones complaining about lack of fans and claim to be loyal,are not the same ones put off by the kickoff time generally. We havent yet managed to build up a loyal fanbase that will turn out every week no matter what. There is maybe 3000 of us?
 
Any more than those 3000 are going to be heavily influenced by kickoff time and day,whether the lions (bonus point win every game vs nix losing) are playing the night before etc etc.
 
It seems you are blaming those who turn up to every game for the low crowd figure. I get what your saying,but your directing angst at the wrong people.
 
Hope you understand what I mean?
 
As for the empty feverzone...yeah thats a worry. I dont see what happened here...maybe people need to get home? everyone used to say behind last season...maybe since the nix use to do their warmdowns on the pitch people have now gotten into the habit of leaving instead of waiting 15mins for them to come off? Maybe a lot just wanted to leave after yet another frustrating game?
Either way we should try get the tradition of clapping them off the pitch going again...

Allegedly

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
buzz122 wrote:
jamesnz wrote:
What happened to Phoenix till I die...

The comparison is being made with the Lions and how good the crowds are but remember that the crowds have always been good (maybe not this good) for Lions over the years who have been sh*te..the Canes still average the highest crowd numbers in Super 14 and they haven't won it ever!!!!!

Thats rubbish the lions crowds have only picked up this season on the back of some good results.Remember our average was higher than they had last season.Also helps with their  numbers that they give away so many freebies.Yes the Hurricanes have always had pretty good support schedule their games at 5 on a sunday and see what happens,bet it would be the same as we see here.

Yep its 5 o'clock dosnt mean we have to like it and despite what you think it does impact on our crowd numbers due to the impact it has on out of town supporters,a number of whom who have posted on here stating their inability to turn up so often.

GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
buzz122 wrote:
jamesnz wrote:
What happened to Phoenix till I die...
 
It seems that it is Phoenix until its too late, cold, boring, the warriors are playing  etc etc etc. Stop the moaning about game times..you can wish all you like, it aint gonna change. So either accept that the kick off is 5pm and go or don't.

Where were the "fans" after the game? The players came off to an almost empty Fever Zone. Even Bosnich was trying to get a reaction as he came off but there was no one there to boo him.

The comparison is being made with the Lions and how good the crowds are but remember that the crowds have always been good (maybe not this good) for Lions over the years who have been sh*te..the Canes still average the highest crowd numbers in Super 14 and they haven't won it ever!!!!!

It's just my opinion but it seems that there are quite a few wannabe fans who make out like they are "hard and loyal" but 6900  on a sunny day? FFS maybe the chant has to be changed to "Where are ya?"

It has been said before in this thread....be careful you don't become Auckland and lose this team

Just an opinion from one who is always there

HN - Fixed Quote tags
Good,that will let them know the honeymoon with the fans is almost over and performances count.We cheered when Dodd got subbed off,and what i'm supposed to stay back and clap him off for it.thanks but after cheering,chanting and willing the team to a win, i was a little annoyed we walked off with just a point, a good point, but two less than the minimum you should get when playing at home.

i'm always there also.




 



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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
santy wrote:
Okay result...much better than our previous 2 performances.
 
Only our 3rd ever clean sheet, 1st of the season, and our 1st against someone other than Perth.
 
Srappy game, but history will say we defeneded wll and couldn't finish,


If that is true that is a stat that hasn't been given much airing. Seems to also have been two Karl Dodds out there, because either he is getting 0/10 ratings or respect for a lot of yards covered.


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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
There were eleven Dodds out there imo (well, the ten in the outfield at least).

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
bobboltontawa2 wrote:

so all of a sudden costa is going to be the saviour of the phoenix ?? were one win off 4th place ffs!



To be fair , we were saying the same thing last year at about this stage and we came last.

a.haak

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
buzz122 wrote:
jamesnz wrote:
What happened to Phoenix till I die...
 
It seems that it is Phoenix until its too late, cold, boring, the warriors are playing  etc etc etc. Stop the moaning about game times..you can wish all you like, it aint gonna change. So either accept that the kick off is 5pm and go or don't.

Where were the "fans" after the game? The players came off to an almost empty Fever Zone. Even Bosnich was trying to get a reaction as he came off but there was no one there to boo him.

The comparison is being made with the Lions and how good the crowds are but remember that the crowds have always been good (maybe not this good) for Lions over the years who have been sh*te..the Canes still average the highest crowd numbers in Super 14 and they haven't won it ever!!!!!

It's just my opinion but it seems that there are quite a few wannabe fans who make out like they are "hard and loyal" but 6900  on a sunny day? FFS maybe the chant has to be changed to "Where are ya?"

It has been said before in this thread....be careful you don't become Auckland and lose this team

Just an opinion from one who is always there

HN - Fixed Quote tags
 
you are preaching to the wrong people.
 
also the Nix have taken to warming down this year - so i dont blame people for not wanting to wait for 20min.
humour when Bosnich walked off though

Founder

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feverish wrote:
buzz122 wrote:
jamesnz wrote:
What happened to Phoenix till I die...

�
It seems that it is Phoenix until its too late, cold, boring, the warriors are playing� etc etc etc. Stop the moaning about game times..you can wish all you like, it aint gonna change. So either accept that the kick off is 5pm and go or don't.Where were the "fans" after the game? The players came off to an almost empty Fever Zone. Even Bosnich was trying to get a reaction as he came off but there was no one there to boo him.The comparison is being made with the Lions and how good the crowds are but remember that the crowds have always been good (maybe not this good) for Lions over the years who have been sh*te..the Canes still average the highest crowd numbers in Super 14 and they haven't won it ever!!!!!It's just my opinion but it seems that there are quite a few wannabe fans who make out like they are "hard and loyal" but 6900� on a sunny day? FFS maybe the chant has to be changed to "Where are ya?"It has been said before in this thread....be careful you don't become Auckland and lose this teamJust an opinion from one who is always there HN - Fixed Quote tags


�

also the Nix have taken to warming down this year - so i dont blame people for not wanting to wait for 20min.


This is a big factor IMO. I'll admit it, I used to stay in the zone to cheer the lads off all of last season, but don't do it anymore because of the warm-downs.

I'm kind of wondering whether I should be upset by those, I mean people want to cheer the team off the field, but we're not anyone's lackeys to wait around for 15-20 minutes after the game's done to do it. I mean, if they really want to do their warm-downs straight after the game, why not just acknowledge the crowd (and not just the zone) before starting the warm-downs? How hard is that? I don't know, I'm starting to feel a bit more than just meh about all this...
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