Wellington Phoenix Men

vs Morwell Falcons (Heart)NOWSun 5pm SS2

424 replies · 15,247 views
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

totally agree with you bwtcf.

all tv channells are able to black out areas and localise what is shown. All TV & radio channells do it in the ad breaks, all ad breaks are localised.

The old adage that they cant do it are crap, they have been able to do it for years, even before the digital age, even in the days of the old NZBC and thats going back a while.
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
uhfan wrote:

totally agree with you bwtcf.

all tv channells are able to black out areas and localise what is shown. All TV & radio channells do it in the ad breaks, all ad breaks are localised.

The old adage that they cant do it are crap, they have been able to do it for years, even before the digital age, even in the days of the old NZBC and thats going back a while.
 
The blackouts in the days of the NZBC were in fact power cuts.

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
If SkyTV had a clue. They would stream the game LIVE from foxsport on their ISky site. :
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
That's an interesting read bwtcf. How about people who are physically ill or unable to make it to the game for whatever reason. Seems a tad unfair to deny them coverage. Still, sounds like a model that works in Aussie. Something Ive never really thought about to be honest.
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Downey26 wrote:
That's an interesting read bwtcf. How about people who are physically ill or unable to make it to the game for whatever reason. Seems a tad unfair to deny them coverage. Still, sounds like a model that works in Aussie. Something Ive never really thought about to be honest.
 
Nothing I wrote spoke about denying anyone coverage. Live coverage, yes, but coverage, no. There would still be:
 
1. Live coverage to the rest of New Zealand.
2. Delayed coverage to the local market.
 
I am sorry but for the few people who are unable to go to the ground, it is just tough. Healthy crowds, and by extension, revenue streams from ticket sales, and perhaps even more importantly merchandising, by far out weigh a few individuals who can't see the game live. (But who can still see the game).
 
Seriously... if you give me a choice between the two following things:
 
( a ) healthy crowds week in and week out, but people who can't get to the ground miss out on live coverage (but can watch delayed coverage)
 
and
 
( b ) Poor crowds, but everyone is able to sit at home or in bars watching the live coverage of the game instead of going to the ground...
 
I'd pick ( a ) for any team I supported any day.
 
bwtcf2011-11-30 14:44:06

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.


Phoenix fans. We have to win them over one fan at a time.

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
That only works for a sport where they have a massive market.

But in a city of400k people where it's competing with rugby amongst other sports like cricket,and tge fans are very much casual? People would just become disinterested.

Not to mention how on earth does that benefit sky? Generally such restrictions on the broadcaster are negotiated in by the body of the sport. It would mean sky obviously paying less in tv rights. So the people you would get along to the game would have to heavily outweigh that lost revenue (and lost revenue to sky) Fact is it wouldn't

Allegedly

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Take that argument to it's logical extreme then Tegal.
 
No one would go to the ground.
 
Everyone would watch on TV.
 
The TV rights would be maximised.
 
Kids would never experience the thrill of the atmosphere of being at the game (as opposed to watching it on TV).
 
I believe that part of the long term decline in TV ratings for rugby is that people are no longer engaged with the teams in the way they were 20 - 30 years ago (when going to the game was norm).
 
PART of the reason for this is once you educate the populace that watching the game on TV is the norm, as opposed to going to the ground you risk two things happening.
 
Firstly if the game is going poorly, or is not that high quality (i.e. it's a relatively boring game as opposed to an edge of your seats cliff hanger) people can (and at least some WILL) change channels or switch the TV off and do something else. Yes, I agree people walk out of sports venues early when those two things happen, but I am also confident that on the whole people at grounds have more of a vested interest in continuing to watch (staying until the end) than people watching on TV do. For one thing the TV audience can switch to another sporting event on another channel in an instant, whereas the at the game crowd are committed. So, I think if the norm is "go to the game" as opposed to "watch it on TV" you lose less people to disinterest/boredom/disappointment - on average. This then means that more people are still tuned into what is going on in the game if/when the spectacle picks up/miraculous comeback is mounted. This leads to a stronger bond between the fans and the team.
 
Secondly with the norm as "watch it on TV" sooner or later (over the course of a decade perhaps in the case of NZ rugby) punters are gradually exposed to other sports they never used to get exposed to. By changing channel during a team's event or even just by being conditioned that sport is something they watch on TV (by default) then even when the team is not playing they will turn to TV to watch sport... which is PRECISELY what Sky TV wants them do. However, over time this means that people who used to JUST watch rugby (by going to the games usually) now get to see baseball, NASCAR, Basketball, more gold, more cricket, more netball etc. And some percentage of those people will go "Hey, these other sports are not so bad after all..."
 
And over time rugby's dominance of the NZ sports market is lost.
 
Kids grow up watching sports of all kinds on TV. Rugby is just one of them. They don't go along to the games much, certainly not as much as kids used to when the kick off times were family friendly (2.30pm on a Saturday versus 7.30pm on a Friday). They don't get to collect signatures as much as they used to. They don't get "the bug" as much as they used to.
 
Eventually this leads to less demand (on the whole) for match tickets, and softer demand for jerseys and merchandising.
 
I think sports are better to accept less for TV rights, EVEN IF the revenue they gain/retain from tickets and merchandising is initially not as great. In the longer term engagement with your supporter base is more valuable than a fat TV rights cheque, because eventually, when the interest in watching the game on TV begins to deteriorate (as it has begun to do so for Super rugby in the last 3 seasons) then in the even longer term the revenue from TV rights then begins to tail off too.
 
At that point you've actually killed your market share, lost your fan base. You can't just turn the passionate supporter culture back on.
 
I don't think it's a simple $ vs $ equation.
 
bwtcf2011-11-30 15:09:54

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.


Phoenix fans. We have to win them over one fan at a time.

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It's a massive gamble though isn't it? Guaranteed money vs possible money.

You may be right,but I don't see it working in such a small market where fans are very casual. If anything a blackout will cause people to become disinterested and may even damage tge reputation of the sport in the region (especially since something like this has never been done here before).

You're also asking sky to cut out at least 10% of their potential audience,quite a major audience at that (cutting out Wellington audience of a Wellington team). That's fine for broadcasters overseas who have millions of viewers in other regions,a lot of which are from the region with the blackout. But if you blackout the Wellington region,it may not even be worth sky showing the Phoenix due to low viewing numbers (it's already low as is).

Interesting discussion though. If this ever does happen,it would have to be rugby that introduces it.

Allegedly

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Blackouts seem like a very regressive idea.

Surely there are more innovative and modern solutions out there, such as streaming on isky as someone mentioned.

My ten cents is that a creative solution will trump a regressive one every time, and the idea of blackouts seems a clear example of the latter.
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I agree.
 
It is a complex market, with a multitude of factors.
 
And it's an interesting discussion.
 
I concede you make some good points too, but overall I think the soveriegnty issue is an important one.
 
All I see is that attendances in major sports in New Zealand are trending downwards since the beginning of the Sky era. In the long term I don't think that is good or healthy for the sports. It generally transfers financial control of the sports from the sports themsleves to Sky.
 
I certainly don't think it is good for The Phoenix or Wellington Rugby (or any other sport in any other market for that matter) to just accept that punters will walk into bars and spend their money there in preference to going to the ground and spending their money there.
 
It is PARTICULARLY stark in Wellington where the Stadium is so accessible to after work walk up crowds from the CBD (not to mention how accessible it is being right on the rail and bus transport hubs) and to just accept that it's okay to let punters walk into bars in preference to walking to the stadium. In Auckland by comparison, Mt Smart, Eden Park, Albany Stadium etc. are all not quite so adjacent to many of the bars that peopel go to instead of turning up at the games... so it's not quite as galling, or apparent...
 
I don't see any sustainably successful sports franchises, teams, clubs or leagues overseas where the at the game crowds are low. Keeping crowd attendances up is crucial to the long term viability of a team, club or league.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.


Phoenix fans. We have to win them over one fan at a time.

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ShowUsYaNix wrote:
Blackouts seem like a very regressive idea.

Surely there are more innovative and modern solutions out there, such as streaming on isky as someone mentioned.

My ten cents is that a creative solution will trump a regressive one every time, and the idea of blackouts seems a clear example of the latter.
 
My argument (and proposal for blackouts) was specifically aimed at generating larger crowds at sports events. Explain how innovative and modern solutions, such as streaming on isky will achieve that? I don't see your point at all. I think that will do precisely the opposite.
 
(Note I am not saying it is a bad idea, I am just arguing about what will grow crowds).

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.


Phoenix fans. We have to win them over one fan at a time.

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
FFS Sky if your wondering why people pillage sh*t off the internet this is a reason why

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think your saying it will go one way (people will have no choice but to go to the game,generations of supporters will be grown as a result) and I'm saying it will go the other ( bad publicity,casual fans becoming disinterested due to not being able to follow the team other than going to games which they may not be Ble to do for a number of reasons (or as I suggest,the nature of nz fans is that they're casual).)

It can go either way and the only real way to know for sure is to actually do it.

I think the determining factor is sky however. Cutting the major market for the Phoenix isn't exactly going to make them want to show the nix or the a league,the brand simply isn't that strong and we don't have the population(or current viewer numbers) to make it worth risking a go at it.

I think they should try it for all blacks games perhaps,then sawed what sort of reaction it gets. But again,all blacks games bring big viewer numbers (and therefore advertising) for sky,so they'd want to be compensated for that big time.

Allegedly

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tegal wrote:
It's a massive gamble though isn't it? Guaranteed money vs possible money.

You may be right,but I don't see it working in such a small market where fans are very casual. If anything a blackout will cause people to become disinterested and may even damage tge reputation of the sport in the region (especially since something like this has never been done here before).

You're also asking sky to cut out at least 10% of their potential audience,quite a major audience at that (cutting out Wellington audience of a Wellington team). That's fine for broadcasters overseas who have millions of viewers in other regions,a lot of which are from the region with the blackout. But if you blackout the Wellington region,it may not even be worth sky showing the Phoenix due to low viewing numbers (it's already low as is).

Interesting discussion though. If this ever does happen,it would have to be rugby that introduces it.

It also doesn't tend to be done for pay television. I think the view is people are paying them, and are therefore entitled to see the game live. FTA is a different matter.
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
bwtcf wrote:
ShowUsYaNix wrote:
Blackouts seem like a very regressive idea. Surely there are more innovative and modern solutions out there, such as streaming on isky as someone mentioned. My ten cents is that a creative solution will trump a regressive one every time, and the idea of blackouts seems a clear example of the latter.

�

My argument (and proposal for blackouts) was specifically aimed at generating larger crowds at sports events. Explain how innovative and modern solutions, such as streaming on isky will achieve that? I don't see your point at all. I think that will do precisely the opposite.

�

(Note I am not saying it is a bad idea, I am just arguing about what will grow crowds).


Streaming online wouldn't be about growing crowds, it was simply a solution to the clash this weekend, not necessarily a long term one.

That said, I don't think blackouts would grow crowds, I think it would just piss people off. And given that 90% of the population would be able to figure out how to watch it anyway, I don't actually think it would be a positive. Maybe it used to work when watching the broadcast live and going to the game in person were the only options, but I'm not sure that applies in 2011.
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'm with bwtcf on this one although I would like to think that if there was a really big game ie a finals game that sold out or another Baharain type game that then the game would be shown live .
Personally it was being taken to games as a youngster by my Dad that got me hooked on live football (no Scottish football jokes please ) the little buggers nowadays already spend to much time sitting on their arses in front of one kind of screen or another,it's great to see kids enjoying  the football and the atmosphere  at the  stadium.
At the end of the day though it's all about TV rights money and Sky probably hold all the  cards on that one unfortunatly.

The answer to life's problems are rarely found at the bottom of a beer glass - but it's always worth a look.

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The other problem of sky entering into such an arrangement (as aitkenmike pointed out) is it'd piss off their subscribers which are the backbone of their business. They're therefore unlikely to agree to it at all,or if they did it'd be for more money than it's worth.

I actually agree it would be nice if it worked (I go to all home games anyway so what do I care?) but I just don't see it happening. Am sure one day the waters will be tested though. Tegal2011-11-30 17:04:57

Allegedly

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Paston in for Warner.  Otherwise same XI, Sanchez (if fit) onto the bench for one of Smith or Daniel.
hmm which one would it be ? my vote would be smith off

I LOVE LAMP

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
uhfan wrote:

totally agree with you bwtcf.

all tv channells are able to black out areas and localise what is shown. All TV & radio channells do it in the ad breaks, all ad breaks are localised.


Not in the case of satellite tv, they can't. There is no regional output at all, even including adverts....
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tegal wrote:
I think your saying it will go one way (people will have no choice but to go to the game,[/QUOTE]

No, that's NOT what I have been saying.

The blackouts I am talking about are not "there will be no televison coverage at all", it is "there will be no LIVE television coverage, in the local area of the stadium, IF AND ONLY IF the game is not sell out."

People WILL have a choice. Go to the game, or watch the game delayed... maybe the game starts on TV 1 hour after kick off... unless the game sells out, in which case they have the further option of watching it live too...

Kiwi Jambo wrote:
I'm with bwtcf on this one


Nice to not be alone.

[quote]although I would like to think that if there was a really big game ie a finals game that sold out or another Baharain type game that then the game would be shown live .


I absolutely agree. Everything I have said on this issue has been based on the fact that once a game sells out it IS shown live in the local market.
bwtcf2011-11-30 21:43:15

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.


Phoenix fans. We have to win them over one fan at a time.

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
oi, there is a thread called sky coverage.

Paston better be playing this game.   Am looking forward to it, evens stevens between the teams, each have won a game and one game drawn.

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'm gonna start moving any more sky related posts.
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Allegedly

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
       Paston
Manny Siggy Dura Lochy
Bertos Lia Brown Ward
    Ifill Pav

Bench: Daniel Smith Greenie Warner


Paston ahead of Warned, and I think it is time for Greenacre to have a break after all the hard work he has been doing up front.

Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
patrick478 wrote:
        Paston
Manny Siggy Dura Lochy
Bertos Lia Brown Ward
    Ifill Pav

Bench: Daniel Smith Greenie Warner


Paston ahead of Warned, and I think it is time for Greenacre to have a break after all the hard work he has been doing up front.


Manny is suspended though, right?
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
joshyboy007 wrote:
patrick478 wrote:
        Paston
Manny Siggy Dura Lochy
Bertos Lia Brown Ward
    Ifill Pav

Bench: Daniel Smith Greenie Warner


Paston ahead of Warned, and I think it is time for Greenacre to have a break after all the hard work he has been doing up front.


Manny is suspended though, right?


I don't think so... those two he got for the red don't count because he already served a suspension for them.
Is that right?

"Yellow Fever are fantastic – I have to say that"

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
MANNY IS NOT SUSPENDED


Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Quote:
5.5 If a Player receives two (2) Yellow Cards during the same A-League Match and
therefore receives an indirect Red Card, the two (2) Yellow Cards do not count for
the purposes of accumulation.
5.6 If a Player receives a Yellow Card and then a direct Red Card in the same A-League
Match, the Yellow Card will count in the Player�s accumulation of Yellow Cards

Put to rest?
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
CloneMM wrote:
Quote:
5.5 If a Player receives two (2) Yellow Cards during the same A-League Match and
therefore receives an indirect Red Card, the two (2) Yellow Cards do not count for
the purposes of accumulation.
5.6 If a Player receives a Yellow Card and then a direct Red Card in the same A-League
Match, the Yellow Card will count in the Player�s accumulation of Yellow Cards

Put to rest?


So Dewhurst got it wrong?
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Any question of the form "Did Dewhurst get it wrong?" can be answered "Yes."

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
joshyboy007 wrote:
CloneMM wrote:
Quote:
5.5 If a Player receives two (2) Yellow Cards during the same A-League Match and
therefore receives an indirect Red Card, the two (2) Yellow Cards do not count for
the purposes of accumulation.
5.6 If a Player receives a Yellow Card and then a direct Red Card in the same A-League
Match, the Yellow Card will count in the Player�s accumulation of Yellow Cards

Put to rest?


So Dewhurst got it wrong?


Yes, and it is hardly surprising. He doesn't understand the suspension rules at all.

Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
We should start a thread for the Yellow Card totals
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
  
         Warner
 
Manny Siggy Dura Lochy

Bertos Lia Brown Ward
      Ifill Greenie
Bench: Daniel Smith Pav Pasty
 
Largely on the basis of not changing a winning team

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
sthn.jeff wrote:
  
       

Largely on the basis of not changing a winning team



Are you a relative of Ricki ??   
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
hepatitis wrote:
sthn.jeff wrote:
  
       

Largely on the basis of not changing a winning team



Are you a relative of Ricki ??   
So many LOLs
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
hepatitis wrote:
sthn.jeff wrote:
  
       

Largely on the basis of not changing a winning team



Are you a relative of Ricki ??   
 
 
Nahhhh just a voice of reason!!
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Same match-day 15 as last week apart from Sanchez in for Smith.
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Same match-day 15 as last week apart from Sanchez in for Smith.
 
Injured or dropped ?
He dribbles a lot and the opposition dont like it - you can see it all over their faces. (Ron Atkinson)
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Official?
If so, same team as last week (Maybe Pasts), Sanchez will come on for Ward and we'll switch to

           Meerkat

        Durex C-Monster
Moosecat                 T-Loch

     Forklift   Drip Bait
            Dirty

Zorro                 Sex
        Vice Gaffer

       
You know we belong together...

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Whitby boy wrote:

Same match-day 15 as last week apart from Sanchez in for Smith.

�
Injured or dropped ?
I'd guess not as good Sanchez or Daniel.
You know we belong together...

Permalink Permalink