What's really wrong with the Wellington Phoenix?

I think the Phoenix social media has been a massive step up on previous seasons and whoevers doing it should be commended.

I particularly like the twitter banter and periscope of post match interviews, I don't know what facebook is like as I don't ever use that platform.

A lot of people in the Phoenix backroom do a lot of good things. Whoever was in charge of the rebrand did a bloody good job as well.

Is Richard Parkin the guy who was interviewed in the pod a season or two ago? It seemed to me that he had an overall vision of marketing for the club which was around the culture of Wellington and the team being the Hipster club of the league, his beard in his twitter profile seems to suggest he's one and the same.

Anyway, as I said the overall branding and landing of very Wellington culture sponsors like Garage Project shows that he's doing what he set out to do.

I think we should get over the re-scheduling of the game personally, I have no doubt that the team are working their ass off and this situation isn't what they wanted but is what they got.

Remember the days when Nathan Greenham had to run the club from underneath the Newtown Park grandstand?

Agree with everything you've said in this post. Nobody in the back office is going out of their way to piss off Wellington, despite what some commenters on here seem to think.

Yeah, whoever does the twitter account does a great job. On the whole Auckland issue, I don't think they will pull much more than 6k tbh. But if it keeps the sponsors happy for next season then so be it I guess. 

The short notice sucks but it's not like it will be a pivotal game.

Not everyone is on twitter (except Trump) just as some are not on Facebook.  There are some whom dont use either and probably not even this site. One has to remember football is not just a young person's game. There are many fans in their 50's , 60's and above. Electronic marketing is one useful tool but so too is the printed media and the visual such as tv adverts or newspapers. 

Not everyone wants to be hipster. Not everyone wants to drink. The choices differ from individual to individual. Just remember,  we all get old and past as some would like to catalog. Your day will come soon enough when you too will make lifestyle changes.

The marketing may be great in one area but in others it lacks. I would like to think that the marketing team are in one phase of several in promoting the club. 

Sure, but statistically Wellington is a young city, it's a wealthy city, it's full of beer and coffee and artisinal things, and full of men with long beards and short hair. People deride or admire it but the fact is that the identity of the club is aligned with the identity that the city is trying to promote for itself.

Of course they're targeting a broad market but marketing and image are not the same thing.

Electronic marketing, especially social media, has minimal costs. 

Print media, TV media costs a lot to get good coverage, and if the marketing dept has limited funds (which I think it does) then you're not going to see them pursue these avenues and rely more on the social media.

And social media allows you to build the brand, traditional media is really just for advertising the event.

When the 4-4-3 thing was announced it was also announced that the A-League was going to start advertising in the NZ market as it had previously only been the Phoenix promoting it. Has anyone ever actually seen A-League marketing or just Phoenix marketing?

They prob ment running adds in SKY sports, or is it up to SKY to do that themselves?

The FFA don't even advertise in Australia, letalone NZ

A page of reasonable discussion about the things the club does well and some of the limitations of the league and finances? 

What's wrong with you people?

Burn it, burn it aaaaallllllll!!

Those ads were always there though, I'm guessing sky does that themselves.

Sorry, but how does a club become a hipster club? By selling a hipster beer? Suddenly its the place to be seen? I just don't see how a club can suddenly become a hipster club, and what does it mean? Suddenly is the stadium going to be full of hipsters, who never liked football/went to games before we became a hipster club?  

Well, was it a Kevin Fallon-esque spartan Sunday league before? 

I associate hipster with BS like cereal killers, gentrification and appropriation too, but my British friends tell me it is actually quite positive over there. I wouldn't have called a lot of the places I like here hipster, but they said they'd think of them as that.

How about this: fun, young and creative/special. Fudgen love Garage Project. So much quality work. I would bloody support the hell out of a club that was the Garage Project of football. They'd be playing better stuff than seen in the A-league yet. Plus it is also local- though Auckland (and Norway and Sweden etc etc) is allowed to drink it too.

I do know the Export 33 sponsorship never seemed quite right!

Well that was me paraphrasing and making a cheeky commentary of the man's beard.

Obviously nothing is sudden, the image transformation of the Phoenix as the cool club is a long term project, no one ever said "suddenly"

The Australian clubs are all gaudy and brash, the Phoenix want a point of difference and an identity is all.

its all good having a point of difference and being hipster and cool is fine, but being cool while losing will still mean noone will show up or care.

Of course but those are two different things and aren't related to each other.

Ah, wise multi is wise. 

But also a bit of a cod

should try doing that post again, but search and replace 'hipster' for 'football'

Listen to the interview with the man.

Also I know it's a controversial position to say people in the club have good intentions and are working hard. Sorry.

https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/thekidsareallwh...

Will the club fold?

If FFA pull the license, absolutely, but they say they won't do that for 2 more years.

The only other question is whether Welnix will surrender it.

They're breaking even financially, so why would they?

They clearly aren't embarrassed enough by awful onfield results and player revolts eg. Krishna, to throw in the towel.

The real issue I see is that even if protests (eg LG's) take off, that might just embarrass Welnix into handing back the licence and the FFA would give it to the Cronulla Riots or whoever right then and there.

So for me the question is having an awful shambles of a club limping towards inevitable licence termination in 2 years (and Welnix not caring because they didn't lose money); or losing our club right now.

Well they were offered $7.5m for it a few months ago and turned it down, so yeah, they're definitely looking to shut up shop.  

Doloras, you've been posting the same theory for two years and WelNix has never given any indication of closing the club. They may, and I wouldn't blame them to be honest, but it seems that they're as committed as ever. That was probably the busiest January window in club history, they wouldn't bother spending that money if they were about to give up.

... the above two posts argue against me saying "Welnix are looking to shut up shop", an argument I specifically DIDN'T make in the post above that. o.O

I said: Welnix won't shut up voluntarily while they're making money - UNLESS they're embarrassed by a public groundswell telling them they suck and they should GTFO, and in that case, who knows?

What we know is that WelNix had set metrics for the club to achieve before the FFA did the same and that their metrics pretty much aligned with the FFA ones, we also know that they said they were very achievable so the patience of WelNix isn't infinite. We can only assume that as achievable as they are they aren't being achieved.

They're reasonable people and they'll know that a "ground swell" of a small group of people with too much time on their hands and other agendas in place doesn't indicate a general public angst, but they're also private people.

"a small group of people with too much time on their hands and other agendas in place doesn't indicate a general public angst"

One might hope so. On the other hand, I switched on the game last night, heard an Aussie commentator say "what DO the Nix contribute to the league, anyway?" and switched right off again. Then I saw people on Twitter saying "why are the Nix allowed to recruit for more than 1 year, what will happen when the club folds?"

I got mediocre marks in university economics, but one thing I remember is that when consumers in a market all expect something to happen, they behave in a way that suppliers are forced to allow that thing to happen. In this case - that if there really is generalised negativity about the Nix outside a few dudes on forums (which I think may be the truth) - it might start a vicious cycle which will make Welnix throw in the towel.

Yes, but fans are fickle. Right now people think that the Phoenix are always last because they're last now, and would be surprised to know that they've only been last three times. If the Phoenix are winning then peoples opinions will change pretty quickly. You're only as good as your last game, etc.

interested to know who you know that the Welnix are breaking even financially Doloras?

Is this the one when he mentions St. Pauli as an example?

St. Pauli fanclub using a Skull and Crossbone as their logo, they have a deep connection with their quarter in the richer Hamburg. From the past days as the sailor entertainment and red light district to very left, punk and house squatting in the 80's and a great music movement in the 90's. These days it is more sanitized and commercial.

Wellington is far less 'angry' than St. Pauli in the 80's but I guess what he meant is having a strong local community a special NZ identity and being the unwanted underdogs. It means also inclusion of everyone, young, old, average, hipsters from where ever you are. I think that fits most of the fans.

St Pauli is not the main football club in Hamburg and therefore an unfair comparison.

"It's hard enough as it is being Wellington Phoenix – no other club travels as much, partly because Morrison sells four "home" games per season to other centres in New Zealand. That provides a guaranteed break-even..."

- the late Michael Cockerill

FFS Doloras

End of the day dosnt really matter what they do in trying to attract "Hipsters" or anyone else. If the product they are serving up is rubbish nothing is going to work. Seems to me they have things arse about face. Shouldnt their main priority have been to make sure what they were serving up is working. Academies and the hipsters should follow on the back of a successful team seems at times as if the are trying to put the cart before the horse.

Think they have been getting some really bad football advice from somewhere. Whoever told them its a good idea to take the last game of the season away needs to give themselves a slap.

Also very surprised that its been left to LG to mount his protest with little backing from those whose influence counts.Despite whats said lets not kid ourselves people are very aware where the influences in the zone lie. To suggest others can organize something off their own back without the backing of those people and expect it to be succesful is i think as they are aware not really going to work.

Easy way to shut everyone's arguments down (Including my own) is for the frigging team to start winning. Winning brings in fans, fans bring in money, more money means better financial position, better financial position means less chance for travelling circus but also means better players brought in, even more fans show up, more money comes in. And the cycle to success is up and running. Simple logic really.

That was only the most reference I can find online. I believe I have read elsewhere that Welnix are breaking even at the moment. If the alternative explanation is they're losing money, I'd like to see references for that.

Geez, some of you guys really just want me to shut up and fudge off, don't you. Tough. I'm here as long as the team is.