WPM R19 vs Melbourne Victory | Fri 14th Feb | 9:35pm | Sky Sports 2

theprof

You're right, defence isnt really the issue, conceding goals is always gonna happen and we have one of the lowest goals against (19) - only two better than us, Auckland (12) and Melb C.(15)
Although if we had a defence and keeper like Auckland we'd be in a better position.
Our goals for (16) is the 2nd worst in the league with only Perth (12) below us.

Correct, if we had a worse defence then we might not have drawn with CCM or Brisbane, and might have lost by a few more against Victory. 
I think we had only one game (WSW) where we leaked more than two goals. The opposition was too good: good enough to repeatedly score against us in one game. All other games, if we simply score one more goal (ok, two goals in case of Auckland FC and the recent M City game) that would have changed the result.  In all games where we scored more than one goal, are the games we won.   We have no high scoring draws this season, all draws are 0:0 or 1:1, which serves the point I am making.  One exception to the above are games won by us where the game might have been drawn but we won because we also scored from a penalty (in addition to a field goal).
(Others may want to correct me on this though, as I did not check the stats before posting but relied on my aging memory).
If this is all correct, then Sutton, Payne, Wootton and Hughes are doing their job OK if they are all playing, and that Sheridan is generally solid too.  We mostly leaked in a single goal or none. Take away the unfortunate OGs Sheridan and Hughes created (and the handball), and we have not lost that many goals at all, despite any shakiness shown at the back.
How many games did we not win because Retre and Nagasawa are not Pennington and Kraev, and because we did not play David Ball at least to see if he makes any difference, and we did not ask if could bring Ben Waine back?

The effect of Rufer's illness has meant that for six whole games we have not had the midfield cover defensively (so great credit to our young backline) and more importantly, one of our most important launching pads for our attackers. A real double whammy. A lot of people have had to try and step up, but certainly some have been more successful than others. 

We don't set up to score goals - stating 7 defenders last week showed that.

We are playing to survive and sneak a win - there is nothing proactive in our set up currently. Hopefully the import helps change this and gives us someone who can both find space and create things, but also handle the physicality that comes with holding possession in the A League, because our Jap imports can't.

And hopefully Sheridan is not played as a midfielder again ahead of Conchie... he's offered nothing in the role, no incisive passing etc. Just rotates the ball backwards poorly. He's much better as a RB.

I would say that we don’t know if we asked about Waine or Garbett. But given that Garbett looks ready to sit out a year of football, in a World Cup year, it looks almost negligent if we didn’t. 

If Garbett last played for Breda on 15th Dec. Not ideal, but worst case scenario, he'll probably miss 6 months of football. Before rocking up at a new club somewhere in Europe. That's still a year before the World Cup. I doubt he was interested in the Nix, even if they reached out. Be O for Oarsome to have him yes.

Same but different Waine. English born, he's always said it was his dream to play in Blighty. It ain't going great for him there, but time is on his side. And he'll be constantly being told that. He's only 23.

Jamie Vardy was playing in the English 5th & 6th tiers until he was 24-25. Similar with Waine's team mate Lee Gregory who was also at that level in his mid 20s. 
36 yr old Gregory has then in the last 10 years carved out a decent career in League One and The Championship. Also at Mansfield 27 yr old Will Evans (12 goals in L1 this season) was in the Welsh league 2 years ago.

Waineo will be hearing from these guys and others like his AWs skipper, Nigel Cough (his MT gaffer), Bazeley, David Ball etc that he just needs to keep slogging away in the UK pyramid. Trying to improve each day. L2 or even National League next season, might be the plan. Time is on his side. Still likely got 10 years of pro football ahead of him.

Going back to NZ to maybe score a few for the Nix, doesn't really serve any purpose. Been there done that.

Oi Oi Edgecumbe

The effect of Rufer's illness has meant that for six whole games we have not had the midfield cover defensively (so great credit to our young backline) and more importantly, one of our most important launching pads for our attackers. A real double whammy. A lot of people have had to try and step up, but certainly some have been more successful than others. 

Agreed.  We are a shadow of our former self without Rufer.  What is worse, no-one seems able to slot into that distribution role (it ain't Retre).
I was interested to see how well Auckland FC managed in their away game against Western United despite Verstraete missing out due to five yellows. The Bituments trounced A-FC  in Auckland earlier this season, so I thought it would be a closer game. Well, I was wrong: A-FC prevailed 2:0, and Max Mata missed a sitter just prior scoring. No Verstraete did not make a difference - and yet he does for A-FC  exactly what Rufer does for us (disrupter and distributor).  

I guess that just shows the depth that Auckland have when experienced guys like Gallegos & Brimmer can cover the absence of Verstraete. Then they have Howieson the bench.

Though think Chiefy continuing to ignore Roa Conchie is puzzling. He looked so good coming on at HT, in the 2-1 win at Macarthur. Basically ignored since. The selection of Sheridan as a DM, seemed ultra conservative.

It also seemed like Corica learned from his tinkering against WU the first time around. 

But yes amazing depth. Mata had forced his way into the starting lineup it seems. 

Moreno, their top scorer can be started, for Verstrate. Leaving on the bench: Howieson, Elliot, Francios and Gillion. You feel like the former 3 would be senior players at the Nix, possibly even Gillion. 

Brimmer, a top A league player, also isn’t a guaranteed starter. 

Bringing on Randall and Coulibaly is basically a flex. 

There’s been a lot talked about why the Nix have dropped points and most of it spot on. 

But also how many of us would have taken Rogerson or Mata at the Nix? Or Pijnaker ? Lots of comments about the quality of LoI or being benched a lot in Armenia and now they’re all regular starters for the table toppers in the A league. But they’re the depth that’s smashing this for Auckland. 

That and both imports May and Moreno are their top goal scorers. We’re missing depth and at least one goal scorer. Probably two. No pressure Chico! 

martinb

It also seemed like Corica learned from his tinkering against WU the first time around. 

But yes amazing depth. Mata had forced his way into the starting lineup it seems. 

Moreno, their top scorer can be started, for Verstrate. Leaving on the bench: Howieson, Elliot, Francios and Gillion. You feel like the former 3 would be senior players at the Nix, possibly even Gillion. 

Brimmer, a top A league player, also isn’t a guaranteed starter. 

Bringing on Randall and Coulibaly is basically a flex. 

There’s been a lot talked about why the Nix have dropped points and most of it spot on. 

But also how many of us would have taken Rogerson or Mata at the Nix? Or Pijnaker ? Lots of comments about the quality of LoI or being benched a lot in Armenia and now they’re all regular starters for the table toppers in the A league. But they’re the depth that’s smashing this for Auckland. 

That and both imports May and Moreno are their top goal scorers. We’re missing depth and at least one goal scorer. Probably two. No pressure Chico! 

I think a big part of that would be that they’re playing in an environment brimming with confidence. Could you tell me they’d be thriving at the nix under our current environment? Probably not. It’s an unknown, but it’s a lot easier to play well in a team playing well than the other way around. Sometimes things just work out. I hate what they’ve got, but absolutely respect the fact they’re able to do it. Answered pretty much every question that’s been asked of them. Sigh. 

WanderingSheep

martinb

It also seemed like Corica learned from his tinkering against WU the first time around. 

But yes amazing depth. Mata had forced his way into the starting lineup it seems. 

Moreno, their top scorer can be started, for Verstrate. Leaving on the bench: Howieson, Elliot, Francios and Gillion. You feel like the former 3 would be senior players at the Nix, possibly even Gillion. 

Brimmer, a top A league player, also isn’t a guaranteed starter. 

Bringing on Randall and Coulibaly is basically a flex. 

There’s been a lot talked about why the Nix have dropped points and most of it spot on. 

But also how many of us would have taken Rogerson or Mata at the Nix? Or Pijnaker ? Lots of comments about the quality of LoI or being benched a lot in Armenia and now they’re all regular starters for the table toppers in the A league. But they’re the depth that’s smashing this for Auckland. 

That and both imports May and Moreno are their top goal scorers. We’re missing depth and at least one goal scorer. Probably two. No pressure Chico! 

I think a big part of that would be that they’re playing in an environment brimming with confidence. Could you tell me they’d be thriving at the nix under our current environment? Probably not. It’s an unknown, but it’s a lot easier to play well in a team playing well than the other way around. Sometimes things just work out. I hate what they’ve got, but absolutely respect the fact they’re able to do it. Answered pretty much every question that’s been asked of them. Sigh. 

Agree. Our recruiting went wrong, replacements don't deliver as we hoped. We lost Mo and OvH. Plus the Ball saga, he was praised for working with the youngsters and being the ultimate cheerleader for the and team player. 

 Young / inexperienced coaches often have a few more insecurities than the experienced heads like Corica. Multiply this if the coach has not had a playing career.

We don't know much about Chiefy or the inner workings of Phoenix HQ. If anyone has links to any any articles written about the general dynamic and also how Chiefy operates, it would be great to see.  

We seem to be seeing a lot of falling out / falling out of love with players this season. 

dupe post

Chiefy has not had much to work with. Players sold. players injured / ill. policy of youth. 
I agree the Bally issue was hard to understand, but I think overall Chiefy has done well with what has been allocated to him.

Disagree here Edgecumbe, he bought in recruits which he believed were adequate replacements in Ishige, Nagawasa, Oluwayemi & even Retre. Ishige has been okay, Nagasawa has been dropped, Oluwayemi has been a disaster and got demoted for a 19 year old, and Retre is vanilla as anything.. On paper it sounds and looks good, but practically it has not worked, some of it is adjusting to the league (espeically the Japanese duo), and some of it is the tactics employed hasnt worked with the mentioned players. E.G playing out from the back at all costs with Oluwayemi.. who we were told was amazing with ball in his feet

Oi Oi Edgecumbe

Chiefy has not had much to work with. Players sold. players injured / ill. policy of youth. 
I agree the Bally issue was hard to understand, but I think overall Chiefy has done well with what has been allocated to him.

Even with all players available, I believe we’ll just see an improved version of the same tactics from Chiefy: sit deep, stationed, survive, and try to sneak a goal.

Maybe it’s just my personal preference, but even if we achieve the same success and points as AFC, I would still prefer watching their style of football. Attacking, aggressive, high press, high energy – it’s far more entertaining for fans, especially the neutrals.

Injuries etc have definitely been a problem this year, however I want to see plan B from Chiefy (or at least his ability of tactics flexibility on the field).

Yes with Sutton out can see if being a defensive back 3/5. I don't think Chiefy has enough faith in LKH being able to be the LB in a back 4.

Also Rufer and Chico will be on restricted mins.

However when Sutts is back for the Melb City game at the ROF 28th Feb, I'd be surprised if it's not 4 at the back and an extra midfielder. That's why they have recruited Geraldes. So they can try to go more attacking to finish the season.

Nixieboys222

Disagree here Edgecumbe, he bought in recruits which he believed were adequate replacements in Ishige, Nagawasa, Oluwayemi & even Retre. Ishige has been okay, Nagasawa has been dropped, Oluwayemi has been a disaster and got demoted for a 19 year old, and Retre is vanilla as anything.. On paper it sounds and looks good, but practically it has not worked, some of it is adjusting to the league (espeically the Japanese duo), and some of it is the tactics employed hasnt worked with the mentioned players. E.G playing out from the back at all costs with Oluwayemi.. who we were told was amazing with ball in his feet

Oi Oi Edgecumbe

Chiefy has not had much to work with. Players sold. players injured / ill. policy of youth. 
I agree the Bally issue was hard to understand, but I think overall Chiefy has done well with what has been allocated to him.

Chief more so brought in players to compliment the new style of football he wanted to play which we have only been able to play a couple halves of so far. Also the funding cuts to teams were probably a huge deal for us meaning we likely couldn't afford to keep Kraev (very unfortunate) or Zawada and had to look for cheaper options. 

That's not to say the new signings haven't underperformed to some degree (Josh making great saves, but made far too many errors and clearly lost his confidence with his feet quickly and Nagasawa not being able to fill that 10 role and/or not having a strong presence/influence in most games) and chief has messed up some things (neglecting physical presence on the pitch and getting players because they can play multiple roles when they seemingly can't). But most of the tactical and performance issues I feel are more a result of losing a key attacker (Marco) and the primary attacking cover (Cola) to big injuries at the same time early in the season which has led us to playing a more defensive style like last season due to not having the players available to fill the attacking gaps. 

I feel our football looks awful with mostly bad results not because of major flaws with the coach, tactics, or players, but because of unfortunate circumstances that required the players to play a style they weren't brought in to play and/or aren't experienced with at least compared to last season where it didn't look great, but we got results (Hughes in particular is a good example as he is a good player with qualities better than Suraman, but is much less a defensive rock than Surman was which is what you need to be when playing super defensive football or you'll risk more errors and concede which ruins the strategy). 

.

What is this supposed 'Chiefy's preferred style of play', and when have we seen it?

Serious question BTW. I believe this was just something Cheif said in the off season. Not something that has actually happened. Let me know if I'm wrong

All team reorganisations are rolling the dice to a degree. 

There’s outside factors which have made it tough for Chief such as 3 AWs tournaments, injuries and illness, and the payout cut. 

Then there’s factors within his control. 

We don’t know- maybe Kraev’s partner preferred living in Sydney to living in Welly. Zawada definitely wanted to be closer to his family. On the other hand, maybe we tried to lowball Kraev when he was the last attacking force we had from our best year and missed out. 

Even with Marco we went into the season short handed on talent. I’ve already got grumpy about our lack of initiative and lack of preparation for potential problems. 

I feel like we made all our dice rolls more difficult than necessary. All were a bit older. Nagasawa and Ishige were playing in the A league for the first time. We weren’t replacing David Ball or using him. Ditto Van Hattum and Mo.This placed a lot on Rufer, Payne and Sutton. All of whom got injured or ill or suspended at various times.

We didn’t know each other well as a squad or have the preseason to drill this new formation. 

That all makes things tough. Unnecessarily so.

I even think signing Josh was the right call. Otherwise it’s all on Alby and then we end up with Oli mark 2- a good keeper who had too much non-keeping related pressure too early. Chief thought he wasn’t ready at the start of the season. Paulsen came through slowly through the cup and as an injury replacement. 
And I think Josh can still do a job. But he obviously wasn’t a keeper who fitted exactly with Chief’s requirements, but still a very good shot stopper. 

But in the end we didn’t give ourselves any easy wins. There was little continuity, little contingency planning, not much was clear about who, outside Rufer, Payne and Sutton, was doing the running, and the new system we were due to play wasn’t clear. And given the 3 long term injuries/illnesses and the 3 early releases we’ve brought in far too few replacements too late.
Brooke-Smith and Walker are learning on the job, not ready to go, occasionally they have flashes, but ideally they’d have been on much fewer minutes this season. 
Roa Conchie also seems to not quite have Chief’s full trust. 

In short, we tried to reorganise without sufficient and sufficiently experienced midfielders and attackers, without enough time to prepare and team build and without enough flexibility built into the squad if there were injuries or problems. These are self inflicted problems. 

It doesn’t help that two ex-Nix in Elliot and Rogerson are enjoying their time up the road. Elliot gets to learn from  Sakai. Paulsen must be bored silly. 

Or as someone else pointed out that this time last season we were 5 points clear at the top. We squandered that lead and are now squandering the goodwill we earned too.

Auckland have been immense and instead of being rivals we’ve let the first derby season down. 

At least we should put up a little fight toward the end of the season as we get players back and Chico joins us. If we can win or draw impressively against Auckland and have a finals run where we put in some performances at home, we might salvage at least some pride. 

If our goal plan for next year is to wait and hope for Brooke-Smith moments, we might as well look for a new Ifill to sign. 

martinb

All team reorganisations are rolling the dice to a degree. 

There’s outside factors which have made it tough for Chief such as 3 AWs tournaments, injuries and illness, and the payout cut. 

Then there’s factors within his control. 

We don’t know- maybe Kraev’s partner preferred living in Sydney to living in Welly. Zawada definitely wanted to be closer to his family. On the other hand, maybe we tried to lowball Kraev when he was the last attacking force we had from our best year and missed out. 

Even with Marco we went into the season short handed on talent. I’ve already got grumpy about our lack of initiative and lack of preparation for potential problems. 

I feel like we made all our dice rolls more difficult than necessary. All were a bit older. Nagasawa and Ishige were playing in the A league for the first time. We weren’t replacing David Ball or using him. Ditto Van Hattum and Mo.This placed a lot on Rufer, Payne and Sutton. All of whom got injured or ill or suspended at various times.

We didn’t know each other well as a squad or have the preseason to drill this new formation. 

That all makes things tough. Unnecessarily so.

I even think signing Josh was the right call. Otherwise it’s all on Alby and then we end up with Oli mark 2- a good keeper who had too much non-keeping related pressure too early. Chief thought he wasn’t ready at the start of the season. Paulsen came through slowly through the cup and as an injury replacement. 
And I think Josh can still do a job. But he obviously wasn’t a keeper who fitted exactly with Chief’s requirements, but still a very good shot stopper. 

But in the end we didn’t give ourselves any easy wins. There was little continuity, little contingency planning, not much was clear about who, outside Rufer, Payne and Sutton, was doing the running, and the new system we were due to play wasn’t clear. And given the 3 long term injuries/illnesses and the 3 early releases we’ve brought in far too few replacements too late.
Brooke-Smith and Walker are learning on the job, not ready to go, occasionally they have flashes, but ideally they’d have been on much fewer minutes this season. 
Roa Conchie also seems to not quite have Chief’s full trust. 

In short, we tried to reorganise without sufficient and sufficiently experienced midfielders and attackers, without enough time to prepare and team build and without enough flexibility built into the squad if there were injuries or problems. These are self inflicted problems. 

It doesn’t help that two ex-Nix in Elliot and Rogerson are enjoying their time up the road. Elliot gets to learn from  Sakai. Paulsen must be bored silly. 

Or as someone else pointed out that this time last season we were 5 points clear at the top. We squandered that lead and are now squandering the goodwill we earned too.

Auckland have been immense and instead of being rivals we’ve let the first derby season down. 

At least we should put up a little fight toward the end of the season as we get players back and Chico joins us. If we can win or draw impressively against Auckland and have a finals run where we put in some performances at home, we might salvage at least some pride. 

If our goal plan for next year is to wait and hope for Brooke-Smith moments, we might as well look for a new Ifill to sign. 

Vision for Wellington.
 
Note: See Roofs on TV1 News Sport. 

Edit: a non item. With reference to the forthcoming derby, plus Rufer's recovery from glandular fever, the TV1 sign-off is a tame: "Get set for another high temperature affair."

As an aside this year's pre season will be fairly disrupted as well. The U20 WC in Chile is scheduled from 27th September to 19th October.

I'd expect the Nix to have AKH, LKH, Jayden Smith, Loke, Candy, Walker, GSR, Brooke-Smith and Supyk all picked. Maybe a few more kids from the Academy like Makowem. Say 8-10 players in total gone for 3-4 weeks. For the leadup and U20 WC tourney itself. 

Usually the U20s WC is played June-July?

The AWs could also be playing in both the Sept & Oct windows.

Less disrupted than last year (OFC Nations Cup, U19s OFC WC qualifying, Olympics and AWs windows), but still more disrupted than most ALM clubs have to contend with.

If going forward bi-ennial U20 WCs are going to be played Sept-Oct just before the A League kicks off, that becomes a reasonably important factor when looking at stuff like making coaching & squad changes.


Like with 8-10 young players away for 3-4 weeks, plus new visa players coming in, plus a new coach it would be a very difficult pre season. Almost reason enough to definitely give Chiefy another season, plus try retain all of Wootton, Ishige, Nagasawa & Geraldes. 

reg22

What is this supposed 'Chiefy's preferred style of play', and when have we seen it?

Serious question BTW. I believe this was just something Cheif said in the off season. Not something that has actually happened. Let me know if I'm wrong

The best example for this would be the round 8 game vs Macarthur (in particular the Kosta goal). Despite the loss (Hughes tragic handball in the box and then multiple defensive errors in a row leading to a well scored tap in) this game was played well by us with much better looking football (not perfect but it was early stages) and we definitely should have won if not for the poor errors. 

The big differences in style are this new style is a much more proactive football that plays in tight spaces instead of passing around to create space especially when playing out from the back (passing forward more often and quicker while playing higher up rather than playing backwards, waiting for opposition high press to create gaps and counter) and having a number 10 like Marco or Chico (hopefully) enables this style through a player who can receive the ball in tight spaces (instead of waiting for space by passing around the back), can create space for our other attackers by beating players or holding the ball to draw in more defenders (something we lack a lot), and can provide our attackers with incisive passes that they can score/create with (something we lack even more).

We haven't been able to play this style because we lack a 10 who can play it effectively with Marco being injured which is core to the style. Nagasawa failed to do this likely because he hasn't played 10 for so long (chief said he could play 10) and ishige can't do it good enough atm because he is too easily muscled off the ball and if we play him as a 10 we then don't have an attacker to cover his spot effectively (I feel the plan if Marco got injured was play ishige at 10 and cola where Ishige was but he got injured as well) so we will still not create good chances which led us to playing more like we did last season which is much more defensive and reactive because it's the next best option. Our squad isn't built to play that style for multiple 90 minute games so it looks a lot worse than last season and we are doing much worse.  

I'm hoping next game we will showcase the new style since it's a big game and we have key players back especially with Chico to fill the gap at 10. I feel we can take games of good teams like Auckland with a fit squad and get a playoff spot then see what happens in playoffs. 

Excellent summary that.

Sadly that Macarthur home 1-2 loss on 14th December, such an important game, being the last match before Rojas (his only start of the season) and Cola were both injured long term. What could have been.

Some highlights of that game. Barba, Rojas & Ishige working in tandem. Definitely a game the Nix should have won, and yeah you can see the early glimpses of how Chiefy wanted the team to play this season.
https://wellingtonphoenix.com/videos/id/wellington-phoenix-v-macarthur-bulls-shark-highlights-isuzu-ute-a-league-2024-25-round-08/6365979190112/

reg22

What is this supposed 'Chiefy's preferred style of play', and when have we seen it?

Serious question BTW. I believe this was just something Cheif said in the off season. Not something that has actually happened. Let me know if I'm wrong

He should have had Ishige and Marco central (which is how they lined up in the preseason club day at Berhampore) with Kosta in front. But the three of them rotating a fair bit. And with Payne and Sutton pushing high and providing width.  With Rufer and Retre sitting behind. Or Nagasawa linking instead of Retre and also offering width.
In that formation Ishige and Rojas have plenty of options for interplay and movement.

Instead we have largely had No Marco, No Rufer, No Sutton, No Payne and no Cola backup.  Some of them out at different times.  
But  mostly Ishige had Kosta in front and a bunch of kids around him.  At times with Rufer there.  But that doesn't help with Sutton and Marco and Cola missing.

And no import spot to help fix things until the Ball situation resolved.

Rojas and Ishige had one half together with Kosta in front and Rufer behind, with Payne, but without Sutton, I think, and delivered our best period of play and best open play goal of the season. We were fast, passed quickly and looked threatening from several angles as Rojas, Ishige and Kosta all offered threats.

We were a bit short of quality backup at FBs. And Retre, Nagasawa and Cola didn't add enough to help deal with the injuries to Marco and Rufer. And pretty much everything went wrong when all that was exposed by injuries.