Youth Team 09 - The "Pignata Plan"

Youth Team 09 - The "Pignata Plan"

Our youth team next season playing clubs from the NZFC. Instead of being part of the A-League's real youth league structure. scribbler2009-02-15 13:41:52

Dumb idea, get a youth team in the youth league of Australia.

This is out of date.  TP is working behind the scenes to get us into the FFA Youth League.

As a fall back option playing in the NZFC might work for everyone though.

We should be trying for the Oz youth league, NZFC's future is too uncertain at the moment.

The only draw back again is the Phoenix being officially an Australian club. Therefore you have transfer regulations (they become international ones because its the 'NZ' FC) and the HAL being professional and NZFC amateur blah blah etc etc

There is possibly one way that the Phoenix could consistently play other NZFC sides and that would have to be as a friendly. No points on the line, no league placing therefore not really breaking any transfer rules as such. Hey teams travel all over the world to play friendlies, how do they do it?

Get a 9 team NZFC league and when the Phoenix are at home, the NZFC team with a bye plays the Phoenix 'Youth/reserves' as a curtain raiser at ROF. The only drawback would be for the Phoenix franchise to pay for travel and accom of the team playing them but what NZFC wouldn't want to play a friendly in front of a decent crowd (possibly on TV? Prime?) a night away and get to stick around after to see an A League game. I seriously doubt New Zealand Football would stand in the way of that.

This is possibly an easier option than trying to get a team in the NZFC or in the HAL YL. The costs, well would they differ that greatly? (13 or 14 games)

I think its worth a look...

(EDIT: Assuming we have an NZFC)
Agent 472009-02-15 21:15:58

Think he's covering his bases, but fair call.  I remember it being discussed a while back and didn't realise he'd brought it up again.

It's ME that's out of date!

Just past your use by date more like.....(or is that me???)

if the FFA wont give us a youff team then playing in a NZF comp is the next best thing. Playing curtainraisers to seniors games at the ROF would be great. They would have to finish early so the seniors would have time to warm up...but it would work. The good thing is all the non playing Phoenix players get a game a week. Also we would not have to fill the squad up with poxy australians.

The thing is Zinidane, you don't make them part of an NZF comp cause then you have to get around regulations. Just play friendlies. No points, no competion to be apart of and no regulations to get around.

So the club looks like it will apply to start in the NZFC. How do they transfer a player if they need him that week? They will have the international transfer problem, so they won't have players readily available.
They will certainly get game time which is great, and there'll be another game to watch at the ROF which is also fantastic (for NZFC teams as well), but the transfer is a stumbling block.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/1998571/Phoenix-bid-for-reserve-side-in-NZFC

Hope they get name the 'Hutt throb'

If we played the matches as friendlies, it'll reduce the quality of the opposition psychologically - they'll exert themselves less, even if only subconsciously. I'd rather our players get quality opposition for development and conditioning sake.

I'm rather opposed to anything other than participating in the A-League NYL, but I trust in Tony P's judgement.

Ideal for me would be Phoenix U-20 in the NYL, and a Phoenix U-17/Academy team in the NZFC Youth League.

who would we support come Team Wellington v Nix Youth? Dilema playwithFire2009-03-05 10:18:15

I think that mindset only sets in in friendly games where the players don't perceive they have a lot to gain with full exertion. Don't think such a scenario would apply in this case - NZFC players would be up against an effectively reserve team from a professional club, and as opportunity to show up players supposedly at a higher level than them would not, I would think, be taken lightly.

If we dont get in2 the aussie youth league..definatly best next option

I agree with your reasoning, but would argue that not everyone in the NZFC would perceive there being much to gain. You'd get your Luis Corrales trying to impress scouts to earn a pro contract, or your Sam Blackburn trying to impress the Nix to try and earn a youth team spot next season. And you'd get those who are competitive as you suggest. But you'd also get a fair few players (and coaches) thinking "Well, the result has no bearing on our title hopes, no point risking injury etc"

Pretty much the same situation as Ryan Nelsen skipping All Whites friendlies in the past.

I'm still not convinced.

While some coaches may have an approach like that, the amount of one-upsmanship that exists in NZ football in general makes me think it's unlikely it would be adopted widely. In fact, I'd say the Phoenix team would be a massive target for all the NZFC teams - for some out of spite, and others for pure competetive reasons. At any rate, I think it'd be good for everyone involved.


And the comparison with Nelsen doesn't stand, he has much more to lose by playing in a meaningless AWs friendly than the NZFC sides playing a friendly against Phoenix youth/reserve team.el grapadura2009-03-05 10:41:26

I hope you're correct re: the first paragraph. I do think it's a great idea to have the Phoenix play the NZFC sides in friendlies...but I don't see it as a positive regular option.

As for the second, the only difference I see is the risk of retribution from Blackburn/Norwich/whomever, but this still falls along the line of "Okay, Xavi Roca, we don't want to risk you getting injured so we'll sit you out against the Phoenix.". The scale is different but the problem remains. Waitakere fielded their youth team against Youngheart last weekend, as the result meant nothing to them. No points on friendly matches could see a season of matches against weakened squads.

This is all academic of course, but frankly I'd rather guarantee competitive fixtures rather than friendlies. The best way to ensure this is the Australian youth league.

Ideally, yes, but not at the expense of bankrupting the club.

As for Y-tak and Manawatu - again, a different situation IMO. One thing to rest players against an NZFC side where there's nothing to be gained, but I think it'd be another to do the same against a Phoenix youth/reserve side.

Anyhoo, that's just what I think. I guess we'll see what happens if this gets off the ground.

Agree with EG

What Waitakere supporters ?

Ok I meant Rex

given the current financial situation with no major sponsor etc - surely this option of the yoof team playing in the NZFC must happen for the Nix to move ahead in the A-League. Clearly the A league yoof leaguie is the #1 option but that looks a long and costy way off. NZFC gives the best of both worlds, our younger and less played squad members get valuable game time, the fans get a double header every home game, NZFC teams get to play a proper professional teams infront of a big, passionate, vocal crowd.

I remember playing in the Central League when Stop Out Reserves  played in div 3 but couldn't get promoted. They won the league but we certainly didn't tone down our play against them and in fact it was brilliant to play against some ex national reps and current national league players too (we were promoted by the way...). By the way, I like what I see in the NZFC and think it would be fine for the Nix reserves to play there and get some decent competition.

Great news....

I would imagine that most of the youth players will come from north of wellington
Be an excellent vehicle for potential trialists to play in as well  

That's the Billy Harris bandwagin isn't it ?

I heard him on one of the TV broadcasts when he filled in with it.

I'm not convinced about the idea but I guess our reserves getting any game time would be a good thing.

The NZFC sides seem to want expansion anyway based on the whining from north of the Bombays  about the reduction to two rounds.  If this comes off you would probably add an East Auckland side as well (it should be the North Shore but clubs over there can't agree on anything) and it would all be funded as part of the NZFC as travel and everything is currently.

If you have a read of the article (listed on the front page News) Tony states quite clearly that there would be no point if the side were not competing for points which would make it as important as any other match for the NZFC sides.

There is also the Professional vs (sh)amateur competition question which generally needs a 4 week standdown.

The teams would have to play for points to make the games competitive and have a purpose especially for the other sides.