WPM R23 vs Melbourne City | Mon 10th April | 6:00pm | SS7

My own view of the game is that we played competitively in the first half while MCity were planning to take it easy (by their standards).  Rado Vidosic must have had a word with the team at half time but it was only when we scored that gave MCity a sense of urgency and they switched to their regular level of performance. 
In other words, we did not "fall apart". MCity lifted one notch up at 1:1 (or possibly at 2:1) and never let up until the end.  They soon had good energetic skillful subs on the field who were out to prove a point, which meant the game speed remained quite high to the end; it is however not the speed but better passing that made them lethal near our box. 
MCity were a much better team overall and exposed our shortcomings in player quality and tactics, much like Adelaide did recently (but worryingly also Melb Victory, twice).  
For my money, the situation is made worse by what I suspect is absence of a natural, instinctive leader on the field. Others may see other reasons for our failings.  

Victory, tbf, played well below their expected level for much of the season. Their coach is a proven winner in the past. Ikomomidis, Fornaroli et al have a reasonable pedigree. But still we should have been better.

I was looking back at all our results and there’s only 3 games where we really had a complete performance this season and definitely deserved to win. That was against MacArthur 4-1, Adelaide 3-1 and Western 3-0 looking at a lot of the other wins we were pretty lucky with the result. But I guess there were also games we lost we should’ve won too. I just think there’s been too many times this season where we’ve played well for periods but not killed games off enough which has bit us in the back too much.

Talay is pretty on point, we had our chances, City were clinical we weren't. Zawada missed a sitter by his standards, Kosta misses his one on one with the keeper - if those are scored then its a very different ball game. Even if one goes in we would have stood a chance. I was never confident with Kosta - given his first one on one effort earlier in the season. On top of all that, there was the clear nudge on Zawada in the box which should have drawn a pen, commentary team though it could have been given - even if soft - but, like always if that was the other way around and Mclaren/Nabbout go down you know the ref is pointing to the spot - the players know this hence the hesitancy when Mclaren was inside the box for the first goal - noone wanted to go in strong! Why? Because Mclaren would fall over like he'd been shot and the whistle goes.

Talay will never admit his sides are poor - thats not going to attract offers elsewhere, hes smart in that sense, will always point media to a stats sheet. Same old excuses and bs. I'm starting to think The Prof is Davie Dome

Showtime Nixie

Talay will never admit his sides are poor - thats not going to attract offers elsewhere, hes smart in that sense, will always point media to a stats sheet. Same old excuses and bs. I'm starting to think The Prof is Davie Dome

It's pretty obvious Talay is a good coach. Good, but not great, not even the best in this league. When we get an actual shark coach I think you'll lose your mind.

theprof

Talay is pretty on point, we had our chances, City were clinical we weren't. Zawada missed a sitter by his standards, Kosta misses his one on one with the keeper - if those are scored then its a very different ball game. Even if one goes in we would have stood a chance. I was never confident with Kosta - given his first one on one effort earlier in the season. On top of all that, there was the clear nudge on Zawada in the box which should have drawn a pen, commentary team though it could have been given - even if soft - but, like always if that was the other way around and Mclaren/Nabbout go down you know the ref is pointing to the spot - the players know this hence the hesitancy when Mclaren was inside the box for the first goal - noone wanted to go in strong! Why? Because Mclaren would fall over like he'd been shot and the whistle goes.

So you're blaming A-League refs for out tackling? That's bull. Our players didn't make challenges because they were out of position constantly not be cause they were scared.

As for the Zawada pen call, I'm pretty sure he was offside.

anaveragestem

Showtime Nixie

Talay will never admit his sides are poor - thats not going to attract offers elsewhere, hes smart in that sense, will always point media to a stats sheet. Same old excuses and bs. I'm starting to think The Prof is Davie Dome

It's pretty obvious Talay is a good coach. Good, but not great, not even the best in this league. When we get an actual shark coach I think you'll lose your mind.

..... been there, done that, and now the "shark coach's" ex-assistant is coaching Melbourne City and giving other coaches run for their money.  Should we have kept Rado and let Kalezic go instead?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/100039943/rado-and-dario-vidosic-leave-wellington-phoenix

Monto

theprof

Talay is pretty on point, we had our chances, City were clinical we weren't. Zawada missed a sitter by his standards, Kosta misses his one on one with the keeper - if those are scored then its a very different ball game. Even if one goes in we would have stood a chance. I was never confident with Kosta - given his first one on one effort earlier in the season. On top of all that, there was the clear nudge on Zawada in the box which should have drawn a pen, commentary team though it could have been given - even if soft - but, like always if that was the other way around and Mclaren/Nabbout go down you know the ref is pointing to the spot - the players know this hence the hesitancy when Mclaren was inside the box for the first goal - noone wanted to go in strong! Why? Because Mclaren would fall over like he'd been shot and the whistle goes.

So you're blaming A-League refs for out tackling? That's bull. Our players didn't make challenges because they were out of position constantly not be cause they were scared.

As for the Zawada pen call, I'm pretty sure he was offside.

they wren't outn of position, we had CB's at te top of the 18yard box, all of then tentatively stick out a foot becasue they were too scared to make contact - cos we all know refs are gonna blow a pen right - well againstt he nix they will. Don't try and deny the obvious that a decade and a half of refs favouring our opposition will have an impact on our players.

Showtime Nixie

Talay will never admit his sides are poor - thats not going to attract offers elsewhere, hes smart in that sense, will always point media to a stats sheet. Same old excuses and bs. I'm starting to think The Prof is Davie Dome

If it was true i wouldnt be posting on here arguing with you and your anti-nix crowd.

theprof

Monto

theprof

Talay is pretty on point, we had our chances, City were clinical we weren't. Zawada missed a sitter by his standards, Kosta misses his one on one with the keeper - if those are scored then its a very different ball game. Even if one goes in we would have stood a chance. I was never confident with Kosta - given his first one on one effort earlier in the season. On top of all that, there was the clear nudge on Zawada in the box which should have drawn a pen, commentary team though it could have been given - even if soft - but, like always if that was the other way around and Mclaren/Nabbout go down you know the ref is pointing to the spot - the players know this hence the hesitancy when Mclaren was inside the box for the first goal - noone wanted to go in strong! Why? Because Mclaren would fall over like he'd been shot and the whistle goes.

So you're blaming A-League refs for out tackling? That's bull. Our players didn't make challenges because they were out of position constantly not be cause they were scared.

As for the Zawada pen call, I'm pretty sure he was offside.

they wren't outn of position, we had CB's at te top of the 18yard box, all of then tentatively stick out a foot becasue they were too scared to make contact - cos we all know refs are gonna blow a pen right - well againstt he nix they will. Don't try and deny the obvious that a decade and a half of refs favouring our opposition will have an impact on our players.

Hows that tinfoil hat suit you? I'll quite happily deny that the refs are out to get us specifically. There may be evidence of that back in the bad days but it's definitely not true anymore.

You're also willing to dismiss anyone's talk when it criticizes the coach, tactics, or player but are happy to call out the refs as being a big part of why we lose games, mate you'd need a lot of evidence to back that claim up.

What's more likely, the Phoenix haven't been good enough to win anything for their entire existence or the refs are in a big conspiracy with the FA to keep us down? I'm pretty sure the real answer is that we've  been shark for a lot of our existence.

Monto

theprof

Monto

theprof

Talay is pretty on point, we had our chances, City were clinical we weren't. Zawada missed a sitter by his standards, Kosta misses his one on one with the keeper - if those are scored then its a very different ball game. Even if one goes in we would have stood a chance. I was never confident with Kosta - given his first one on one effort earlier in the season. On top of all that, there was the clear nudge on Zawada in the box which should have drawn a pen, commentary team though it could have been given - even if soft - but, like always if that was the other way around and Mclaren/Nabbout go down you know the ref is pointing to the spot - the players know this hence the hesitancy when Mclaren was inside the box for the first goal - noone wanted to go in strong! Why? Because Mclaren would fall over like he'd been shot and the whistle goes.

So you're blaming A-League refs for out tackling? That's bull. Our players didn't make challenges because they were out of position constantly not be cause they were scared.

As for the Zawada pen call, I'm pretty sure he was offside.

they wren't outn of position, we had CB's at te top of the 18yard box, all of then tentatively stick out a foot becasue they were too scared to make contact - cos we all know refs are gonna blow a pen right - well againstt he nix they will. Don't try and deny the obvious that a decade and a half of refs favouring our opposition will have an impact on our players.

Hows that tinfoil hat suit you? I'll quite happily deny that the refs are out to get us specifically. There may be evidence of that back in the bad days but it's definitely not true anymore.

You're also willing to dismiss anyone's talk when it criticizes the coach, tactics, or player but are happy to call out the refs as being a big part of why we lose games, mate you'd need a lot of evidence to back that claim up.

What's more likely, the Phoenix haven't been good enough to win anything for their entire existence or the refs are in a big conspiracy with the FA to keep us down? I'm pretty sure the real answer is that we've  been shark for a lot of our existence.

Not totally accurate but feel free to tar me with whatever brush you choose.
Plenty of members here will back me up on the historic anti-nix sentiment from both refs and clubs - all I'm saying is that it will certainly be having an effect on how hard we play in certain circumstances. Is it the sole reason? i doubt it. does the coach and players have something to answer for  - totally. It is not though as you and SN suggest that the team and coach are gobsharke! Like most things in life - its a combination of small things that can lead to "terrible results".
Perhaps you werent around in the early days? I dont know. But if you'd been paying attention you'd know the refs have had a clear anti-nix bias for aaaaages, hell even our ex capt said as much this season (Durante).

Thought Rado had been one of nature’s assistants up till now and had a fairly disastrous go at being head coach somewhere post-Nix?

Even Darje can’t be that bad. Klopp has nicked his left footers on the right side thing and he seems to have a gig back in Holland. 

It’s not a science getting a coach and squad. It’s a gamble and alchemy. Get it right you look like a genius. 

It seems particularly difficult to keep a squad focused at the end of season. Twice particularly key players moving elsewhere have cast a bit of a shadow over what should be a climax to the end of the season and a lot of fan buy in. 

The scheduling really hasn’t helped us this time either. A consequential pre-finals game at home to decide places you’d assume/hope would bring in a big crowd.

Can we still get a home final?

As for the refs- I remember when we were a dominant attacking team under Ernie and with Uffie we had our share of penalties. The bias is usually for the team that’s dominating. 

theprof

Monto

theprof

Monto

theprof

Talay is pretty on point, we had our chances, City were clinical we weren't. Zawada missed a sitter by his standards, Kosta misses his one on one with the keeper - if those are scored then its a very different ball game. Even if one goes in we would have stood a chance. I was never confident with Kosta - given his first one on one effort earlier in the season. On top of all that, there was the clear nudge on Zawada in the box which should have drawn a pen, commentary team though it could have been given - even if soft - but, like always if that was the other way around and Mclaren/Nabbout go down you know the ref is pointing to the spot - the players know this hence the hesitancy when Mclaren was inside the box for the first goal - noone wanted to go in strong! Why? Because Mclaren would fall over like he'd been shot and the whistle goes.

So you're blaming A-League refs for out tackling? That's bull. Our players didn't make challenges because they were out of position constantly not be cause they were scared.

As for the Zawada pen call, I'm pretty sure he was offside.

they wren't outn of position, we had CB's at te top of the 18yard box, all of then tentatively stick out a foot becasue they were too scared to make contact - cos we all know refs are gonna blow a pen right - well againstt he nix they will. Don't try and deny the obvious that a decade and a half of refs favouring our opposition will have an impact on our players.

Hows that tinfoil hat suit you? I'll quite happily deny that the refs are out to get us specifically. There may be evidence of that back in the bad days but it's definitely not true anymore.

You're also willing to dismiss anyone's talk when it criticizes the coach, tactics, or player but are happy to call out the refs as being a big part of why we lose games, mate you'd need a lot of evidence to back that claim up.

What's more likely, the Phoenix haven't been good enough to win anything for their entire existence or the refs are in a big conspiracy with the FA to keep us down? I'm pretty sure the real answer is that we've  been shark for a lot of our existence.

Not totally accurate but feel free to tar me with whatever brush you choose.
Plenty of members here will back me up on the historic anti-nix sentiment from both refs and clubs - all I'm saying is that it will certainly be having an effect on how hard we play in certain circumstances. Is it the sole reason? i doubt it. does the coach and players have something to answer for  - totally. It is not though as you and SN suggest that the team and coach are gobsharke! Like most things in life - its a combination of small things that can lead to "terrible results".
Perhaps you werent around in the early days? I dont know. But if you'd been paying attention you'd know the refs have had a clear anti-nix bias for aaaaages, hell even our ex capt said as much this season (Durante).

Been around since the beginning. Yes it's possible there was a bias in the early days but it definitely doesn't exist now.

Also I don't at all think we're shark, we're just bang average as is shown by our place on the table. This is unacceptable to me as we have out most expensive team ever and a coach that we were all believing would deliver a far better season than he has. Now if you're happy with what he's achieved with this team he's been given fair play, but I'm not.

Actually, I am with Monto on this.  The change to how we are considered by others (some usual fans aside) came post FFA ownership of the league.  If there is a refereeing bias it usually goes back to the overall referee quality. Poor referees make mistakes against both teams but favour the attacking team, I suspect.  I for one am happy to have Ali Reza Fagani preside over our games anytime, despite his occasional mistakes.  
We will have good seasons and bad seasons. Mostly we have middling seasons and I get frustrated and bored by those.  Talay is a decent coach and I am happy we got to have him around for as long as we did; we did not progress in the finals very far with him either though.  
Is someone like Greenie improved by being around Talay, Rudan and others? If so, he might want to step up, or maybe it will be Chiefy.  I cannot imagine the club trying again for an imported coach - I would rather consider an Australian coach ready to make a stepup, much like Rado or like Ufuk did.

Come on folks, admit it, the best we've looked and the most effective we've been in recent memory is when we were coached by marko

Wasn't that impressed with with Melb City, going by how dreadful our defending was in the 2nd half, & also us been down a man for a decent period thought their finishing was very average, they should have at least put 8 in the back of our net. 

reg22

Come on folks, admit it, the best we've looked and the most effective we've been in recent memory is when we were coached by marko

you're dreaming!

theprof

reg22

Come on folks, admit it, the best we've looked and the most effective we've been in recent memory is when we were coached by marko

you're dreaming!

It all ended on a sour note, but there was a real buzz about the team for much of the season, after the Kalezic diaster. Williams & Krishna on fire. 24,000 at Eden Park. Libby nutmegging Honda. Even Louie Fenton having his best ever campaign. With the playoff loss to the VUC at AAMI Park it felt like the Nix went into the game a real chance, and from memory got some iffy reffing decisions. 

To be fair to Uffie he had that same buzz in his first season, and more before Covid. But this season it seems dull, even if the team will likely make the playoffs.

The best we looked was in Ufuk's first season. I think without COVID we would have won the league.

And we might have our most expensive team but that doesn't mean we're high spending. I recall what Dome said in the pod cast which was we always finish above our budget.

coochiee

theprof

reg22

Come on folks, admit it, the best we've looked and the most effective we've been in recent memory is when we were coached by marko

you're dreaming!

It all ended on a sour note, but there was a real buzz about the team for much of the season, after the Kalezic diaster. Williams & Krishna on fire. 24,000 at Eden Park. Libby nutmegging Honda. Even Louie Fenton having his best ever campaign. With the playoff loss to the VUC at AAMI Park it felt like the Nix went into the game a real chance, and from memory got some iffy reffing decisions. 

To be fair to Uffie he had that same buzz in his first season, and more before Covid. But this season it seems dull, even if the team will likely make the playoffs.

not hard to look good after the Kalezic disaster - we were god awful during that period. Sure Rudan had us playing some good football, but so has Uffie. Rudan left us in the lurch which killed the playoff hopes at the end of the season. Uffie has had us in the same position and had it not been for COVID we probably would have won it all in 19/20. Since then we've struggled to find form and this year we are again struck with key players leaving at the wrong time.

Attributing all of the blame for the 19/20 season to covid is a bit excessive. The team lost to Perth in the playoffs, who were, for all intents and purposes, just as far away from home, similarly locked out due to closed borders and having to live all together away from families just the same as the Phoenix were. WA might as well be a different country at the best of times, let alone then. If it had been a Sydney side then fair enough but Perth were in the same predicament.

To add to that, the Phoenix kept the whole squad together, whereas basically every other team let at least a couple visa players go ahead of the restart. The Perth side that playoff match had no Wüthrich, no Kim, no Castro, no Ikonomidis, no D'Agostino, no Grant. Excuses can be made until the cows come home, but both teams had a round ball and a squad of players away from family (except the Popovic kids).

If the team somehow drops their bundle and doesn't make the six, then what would Talay's legacy be? Zero finals' series wins in four seasons, even with the lower expectations than other clubs that surely can't be sufficient to be the best ever coach? Finishing third was nice, but this league emphasises the playoffs and that's where the legacies are made. These next few games will determine whether he sits alongside Merrick in 'had a good season that faltered at the end' or Herbert 'playoff run that excited but fell agonisingly short' or even higher in the coaching pantheon.

The team with Davila and Hemed played some really good stuff. Weren’t we top or second for a while?

carlind

Attributing all of the blame for the 19/20 season to covid is a bit excessive. The team lost to Perth in the playoffs, who were, for all intents and purposes, just as far away from home, similarly locked out due to closed borders and having to live all together away from families just the same as the Phoenix were. WA might as well be a different country at the best of times, let alone then. If it had been a Sydney side then fair enough but Perth were in the same predicament.

To add to that, the Phoenix kept the whole squad together, whereas basically every other team let at least a couple visa players go ahead of the restart. The Perth side that playoff match had no Wüthrich, no Kim, no Castro, no Ikonomidis, no D'Agostino, no Grant. Excuses can be made until the cows come home, but both teams had a round ball and a squad of players away from family (except the Popovic kids).

If the team somehow drops their bundle and doesn't make the six, then what would Talay's legacy be? Zero finals' series wins in four seasons, even with the lower expectations than other clubs that surely can't be sufficient to be the best ever coach? Finishing third was nice, but this league emphasises the playoffs and that's where the legacies are made. These next few games will determine whether he sits alongside Merrick in 'had a good season that faltered at the end' or Herbert 'playoff run that excited but fell agonisingly short' or even higher in the coaching pantheon.

The fact that Payne and Sail broke quarantine shows that the team wasn't in a good place so yes I think it's reasonable to say that covid disrupted the teaam. I was surprised Australia let them back in when the season re-kicked off.

Contra: for Hemed, guys like Uffie and Devlin, especially the second year when there was more freedom of movement internally, it was better. They were able to have family and extended support. 

And while there was stress, the team may have been a closer knit unit as a result, which is a proven benefit on the pitch. Payne and Oli hardly made any mistakes on field when they were  golfing buddies…

carlind

Attributing all of the blame for the 19/20 season to covid is a bit excessive. The team lost to Perth in the playoffs, who were, for all intents and purposes, just as far away from home, similarly locked out due to closed borders and having to live all together away from families just the same as the Phoenix were. WA might as well be a different country at the best of times, let alone then. If it had been a Sydney side then fair enough but Perth were in the same predicament.

To add to that, the Phoenix kept the whole squad together, whereas basically every other team let at least a couple visa players go ahead of the restart. The Perth side that playoff match had no Wüthrich, no Kim, no Castro, no Ikonomidis, no D'Agostino, no Grant. Excuses can be made until the cows come home, but both teams had a round ball and a squad of players away from family (except the Popovic kids).

If the team somehow drops their bundle and doesn't make the six, then what would Talay's legacy be? Zero finals' series wins in four seasons, even with the lower expectations than other clubs that surely can't be sufficient to be the best ever coach? Finishing third was nice, but this league emphasises the playoffs and that's where the legacies are made. These next few games will determine whether he sits alongside Merrick in 'had a good season that faltered at the end' or Herbert 'playoff run that excited but fell agonisingly short' or even higher in the coaching pantheon.

Couple of things.

We one 1 of 6 games in the bubble. that after winning 11 of 15 games and 4 straight. We were up to third and 3 points off Melbourne City - who we had beaten a few weeks ago. We were the form side.. So we went from a very good chance of being top 2 to stumbling into 3rd place and a home final without a crowd. 

Didn't we completely dominate that Perth game but couldn't score?