The Auckland Stadium Question

Doloras

coochiee

Making it a test cricket venue has some merit. Then yes an independent trust, chasing content - concerts, Moana Pasika Super Rugby games, Crusty Demons, festivals or whatever the rest of the year.

As somone else has been saying who knows what the population of the greater North Shore could be in 20 years. Looking back from 2044, it could be very dumb to pull down NHS now (still only 30 years old?), the only sizeable stadium in the area.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350218793/councillor-pushing-north-harbour-stadium-be-aucklands-test-cricket-venue

Holy crap, given that Colin Maiden Park (on a major train route) has accessibility issues, I don't know what you say about that windswept fortress up in Albania

"“I know people with expertise in cricket and they agree it would make a perfect test venue,” Watson said." - hahahaha, no he doesn't and no they didn't!

 Well, his brother Willie played 15 tests and 61 ODIs for New Zealand with a ten-year first class career, so it isn't a stretch that he could've asked him, or anyone else.

As for accessibility, that is and has always been based on 'from me'. Anyone on the Shore, such as myself, would tell you NHS is pretty easy to get to. Trains don't exist in our lives.

carlind

Doloras

coochiee

Making it a test cricket venue has some merit. Then yes an independent trust, chasing content - concerts, Moana Pasika Super Rugby games, Crusty Demons, festivals or whatever the rest of the year.

As somone else has been saying who knows what the population of the greater North Shore could be in 20 years. Looking back from 2044, it could be very dumb to pull down NHS now (still only 30 years old?), the only sizeable stadium in the area.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350218793/councillor-pushing-north-harbour-stadium-be-aucklands-test-cricket-venue

Holy crap, given that Colin Maiden Park (on a major train route) has accessibility issues, I don't know what you say about that windswept fortress up in Albania

"“I know people with expertise in cricket and they agree it would make a perfect test venue,” Watson said." - hahahaha, no he doesn't and no they didn't!

 Well, his brother Willie played 15 tests and 61 ODIs for New Zealand with a ten-year first class career, so it isn't a stretch that he could've asked him, or anyone else.

As for accessibility, that is and has always been based on 'from me'. Anyone on the Shore, such as myself, would tell you NHS is pretty easy to get to. Trains don't exist in our lives.

As a Waikato sports fan, my family and I always found getting to NHS easier then nearly any ground in Auckland bar Mt Smart.  Yes its further away but its only just off the motorway with loads of parking and a Warehouse etc just across the road for game snacks.

If something isn't accessible by foot or public transport, it's not accessible. 

Doloras

If something isn't accessible by foot or public transport, it's not accessible. 

Get the Northern busway to Albany station and walk. Hardly climbing Everest is it.

Doloras

If something isn't accessible by foot or public transport, it's not accessible. 

that's certainly one definition.
if something is accessable by car then its still accessable.

theprof

Doloras

If something isn't accessible by foot or public transport, it's not accessible. 

that's certainly one definition.
if something is accessable by car then its still accessable.

It’s not. It’s only accessible by vehicular transportation, which by the definition, isn’t accessible for all. Doloras is right.

Reports have been that AFC will now be based there as there is insufficient room at Mt Smart with the Warriors. I wonder if the club might see some opportunities there in getting a stake or preferential treatment as a game tenant at NHS. 

I am not as convinced as others that the NZ sporting public is tied to railway public transport as what Wellingtonians are. Wellington has relied on its train system for more than 50+ years for commuters, ither cities (especially Auckland) hasn’t. NHS would be a perfect size 

Napier Phoenix

Reports have been that AFC will now be based there as there is insufficient room at Mt Smart with the Warriors. I wonder if the club might see some opportunities there in getting a stake or preferential treatment as a game tenant at NHS. 

I am not as convinced as others that the NZ sporting public is tied to railway public transport as what Wellingtonians are. Wellington has relied on its train system for more than 50+ years for commuters, ither cities (especially Auckland) hasn’t. NHS would be a perfect size 

NHS is a graveyard with a death sentence. A horrific ground for football. Zero atmosphere. Less than ideal location. May as well pack up now if they seriously consider playing there

What do you nean by lack of atmosphere? Ive been to several different codes there and it was great. Surely ut depends on the talent on the pitch?

InsulinMachine

Napier Phoenix

Reports have been that AFC will now be based there as there is insufficient room at Mt Smart with the Warriors. I wonder if the club might see some opportunities there in getting a stake or preferential treatment as a game tenant at NHS. 

I am not as convinced as others that the NZ sporting public is tied to railway public transport as what Wellingtonians are. Wellington has relied on its train system for more than 50+ years for commuters, ither cities (especially Auckland) hasn’t. NHS would be a perfect size 

NHS is a graveyard with a death sentence. A horrific ground for football. Zero atmosphere. Less than ideal location. May as well pack up now if they seriously consider playing there

Does Napier Phoenix live on the shore or something? Nobody who doesn't would want Auckland FC to play there. 

I used to, just around the corner actually lol.

I just don’t kind of get it, everywhere in Auckland is a sharkbox to get to if you don’t live in the neighbourhood and the motorways can be like a car park at important times.

Can anyone give me any reasons that wouldn’t be the same if you lived in Ranui for example and the ground was Mt Smart or lived in Buckland Beach and the ground was EP.

imanixsupporter

Does Napier Phoenix live on the shore or something? Nobody who doesn't would want Auckland FC to play there. 

Napier Phoenix

Reports have been that AFC will now be based there as there is insufficient room at Mt Smart with the Warriors. I wonder if the club might see some opportunities there in getting a stake or preferential treatment as a game tenant at NHS. 

I am not as convinced as others that the NZ sporting public is tied to railway public transport as what Wellingtonians are. Wellington has relied on its train system for more than 50+ years for commuters, ither cities (especially Auckland) hasn’t. NHS would be a perfect size 

Incorrect. Sky Stadium is easy to get to by car and if you time it right. My only gripe is the $35 parking fee under the stadium walkway. To get on or off the motorway is a piece of Cake. 

Say a game finishes at 7pmish. By Car without speeding you can be home, after a game, to Upper Hutt in 30 minutes or less (31km journey). The next train bound for Upper Hutt leaves at 8pm. I'm usually home having my dinner and watching another A League game by the time the train actually leaves Wellington Station. That train ride is best part of 1 hour. Therefore I wouldn't get home till at least 9:10pm, if I caught the train. 

The bus over the bridge has made the ground more accessible, as long as it isn’t super windy… have to be honest the last 3 times I was there for the AWs and the Nix I enjoyed it. 

The prospect of goals being scored and games being won no doubt improves the experience too! 

If you’re within 2 stages of town get an early trip into the Chamberlain and then over the bridge. No non-drinking driver not required. Then bus over the bridge, great views. 

I imagine if Foley is white knighting and saving the stadium he might win himself a few fans on the Shore. And it might give them much more flexibility if no one else is really playing there.

I wonder if they’ve done a thorough market analysis of where in Auckland their fans are going to come from. 

Also NHS is also a rectangle football ground right? 

With it being a one team town, and probably always will be, anywhere is going to be a pisser for someone.

When I was living on the Northside of Brisbane when the A League first started, the club (or someone) ran free buses (using your March ticket as fare) that ran to and from the games. We could have driven but parking around Suncorp was a nightmare. That might work to any Auckland venue I think 

I would remind everyone of Foley's comments this month. He recognises that none of the available options are ideal and wants to try and develop a boutique stadium for the club. I wish him every success. 

Screenshot_2024-03-22-19-48-59-07_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg 280.34 KB

imanixsupporter

I would remind everyone of Foley's comments this month. He recognises that none of the available options are ideal and wants to try and develop a boutique stadium for the club. I wish him every success. 

Screenshot_2024-03-22-19-48-59-07_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg 280.34 KB

With talk of jettisoning NHS they might be thinking that they can possibly get ownership or a very good deal there without needing to start over. 

Doloras

If something isn't accessible by foot or public transport, it's not accessible. 

North Harbour Stadium is accessible by foot, bicycle, bus and car.

There is not a single stadium in Auckland that doesn’t require Albany and other North Shore residents to use similar transport systems to those who don’t live in Albany or North Shore would need to use to get to North Harbour Stadium.

Anyone advocating for demolition of NHS is a narrow minded gimp with no respect for the rights of the future ½ million or more people who will soon class that as their neighbourhood to have an accessible stadium. The projected expansion of areas like Silverdale, Dairy Flat, and even Whenuapai mean the location of NHS will be central to a large population.

I get it, South-of-the-bridge people would rather have something not quite in their back yard but close enough to walk to. 

Great; advocate for that, but stop advocating for taking away other people’s resources.

WanderingSheep

theprof

Doloras

If something isn't accessible by foot or public transport, it's not accessible. 

that's certainly one definition.
if something is accessable by car then its still accessable.

It’s not. It’s only accessible by vehicular transportation, which by the definition, isn’t accessible for all. Doloras is right.

You can literally walk to NHS from Albany bus station.

You can walk to NHS from Albany bus station for twenty-five minutes across muddy fields. Twice as long as it takes to walk from Glen Innes train station to Colin Maiden park but everyone's like oh noes inaccessible. 

More importantly, "Reports have been that AFC will now be based there...": no there haven't, unless you mean that they'll be training there?

ClubOranje

Doloras

If something isn't accessible by foot or public transport, it's not accessible. 

North Harbour Stadium is accessible by foot, bicycle, bus and car.

There is not a single stadium in Auckland that doesn’t require Albany and other North Shore residents to use similar transport systems to those who don’t live in Albany or North Shore would need to use to get to North Harbour Stadium.

Anyone advocating for demolition of NHS is a narrow minded gimp with no respect for the rights of the future ½ million or more people who will soon class that as their neighbourhood to have an accessible stadium. The projected expansion of areas like Silverdale, Dairy Flat, and even Whenuapai mean the location of NHS will be central to a large population.

I get it, South-of-the-bridge people would rather have something not quite in their back yard but close enough to walk to. 

Great; advocate for that, but stop advocating for taking away other people’s resources.

Does that newish motorway connection to West Auckland work there too? Westgate, Te Atatu and the inner west etc probably 25 minutes on a good day too right? 

Let’s be honest though, if it’s the Nix most of us aren’t trying to do too much else with that day are we? 

Also tbf- the mayor is the one using words like demolition etc! 

Doloras

You can walk to NHS from Albany bus station for twenty-five minutes across muddy fields. Never doing that again with a kid in tow.

More importantly, "Reports have been that AFC will now be based there...": no there haven't, unless you mean that they'll be training there?

17 minutes google reckons. Yeh that’s a bit sucky. 

If they’re smart they have a bunch of accessibility transfers running constantly on game day for parents/older folk etc be they mini vans, bicycle pulled trailers, a kind of funky mini-train, jinrikshaw or whatever, pedal pubs or the boot of a totally legit Honda Civic/Accord…

I think training and probably offices of some sort there, means based there. Tomato - tomatoe

The across muddy fields comment is also as incorrect and as true as saying you gave to walk through railway yards to get to the cake tin. Even a google map search shows that not to be true. I have been to games at NHS where we came by bus (can’t remember what game but was an international of either union, keague or football). They all parked over by the tennis club. It would be an easy loop from Albany station to stadium and back. There was no Albany station or motorway bus lane back then.

Doloras

You can walk to NHS from Albany bus station for twenty-five minutes across muddy fields. Twice as long as it takes to walk from Glen Innes train station to Colin Maiden park but everyone's like oh noes inaccessible. 

More importantly, "Reports have been that AFC will now be based there...": no there haven't, unless you mean that they'll be training there?

The bizarre, antisocial, long curves of the roads around Albany mean that if you follow the roads (and have a kid in tow) it's a 30+ minute walk. 20+ if you cut across muddy fields. The place has very old-fashioned town planning to make it easy to drive but prohibitively hard to walk.

I think you're being a bit hyperbolic. Worse case they need to widen some footpaths.

Screenshot 2024-03-23 105757.jpg 1 MB

Colin Maiden might be slightly better for public transport, but ultimately it's vehicle access would be horrific.

For the record, I've never had any problem getting to NHS but the stadium itself sucks. The seats are too far away and the concorse/toilets/food are all on top of each other meaning neither function properly.

Napier Phoenix

With it being a one team town, and probably always will be, anywhere is going to be a pisser for someone.

When I was living on the Northside of Brisbane when the A League first started, the club (or someone) ran free buses (using your March ticket as fare) that ran to and from the games. We could have driven but parking around Suncorp was a nightmare. That might work to any Auckland venue I think 

All sports events at Suncorp have free bus/train services. The buses arrive at Suncorp under the stadium. It's mostly a brilliant well organised system, with lots of park & ride areas in the burbs. Plus you have a couple of train stations close by. Driving there in comparison is a nightmare. The sort of system you want for a downtown stadium.

I've always found the gripe about not being able to park next door to Sky cheaply, and then eat poor quality fatty food for less than $10 odd. Sure some folks have mobility issues, but most complaining are just too lazy too park further away and walk, plus bring their own healthy cheap food. Obese people watching highly fit athletes kick a ball around for 90 mins. Head scratching in a way.

For location in Auckland. 1. EP, 2. Mt Smart & 3. NHS.
If EP is considered too big for Auckland FC yipe play most of your games at Mt Smart, but you could take a few out to NHS, as plenty of football fans on the North Shore, plus yes seems that's where the team will train.

Doloras

You can walk to NHS from Albany bus station for twenty-five minutes across muddy fields. Twice as long as it takes to walk from Glen Innes train station to Colin Maiden park but everyone's like oh noes inaccessible. 

More importantly, "Reports have been that AFC will now be based there...": no there haven't, unless you mean that they'll be training there?

Not quite your Ri Chun-hee moniker, but you are twisting the facts there Doloras.
NHS and Colin Maiden are comparisons for test cricket. You won't be walking over muddy Albany fields in the cricket season.

In me opinion for Auckland as a whole, yes Mt Smart is a better location for Auckland FC games compared to NHS. But sounds like the club will be using Albany as their training facility, so I reckon playing 1-2 ALM games a season there ain't silly. Though after the debacle of the field not being in shape for a Moana Pasika game (match transferred to Hamilton) you do wonder if NHS is just being run down, to see it basically mothballed.

 

I mean the mayor wants it mothballed, but if a lad had a billion dollars it might be cheaper to do up NHS, replace the pitch and so on than find new land, get it consented and built and get transport links etc etc. Might make it easier to do bouncy castles and game day experiences. 

And it’s a fair point that North Harbour is actually quite close from the West and North which I think is about 700,000 people, before we look at the inner suburbs as well. 

I have to be honest Eden Park is okay, but short of 20k can feel a bit empty. 15k at NHS would rock, surely. It’s a rectangle, not a cricket stadium. 

Yeah I remember some international friendlies, nix games and U20 World Cup games with 10k+ crowds. Fantastic atmosphere there. I was a little kid but great memories at QBE stadium 

Doloras

If something isn't accessible by foot or public transport, it's not accessible. 

Ahem, the Northern bus way, NZ's most used single piece of transport infrastructure.  I went to Uni at Albany and lived in Brown's Bay so know the area very well, you've got to be super lazy to not want to walk 10/15 minutes from the bus station to the stadium.  

Have you been to Twickenham?  Played touch there 3 days ago, public transport and the road network is far worse yet no one whinges in London, England or Europe about that fact (was super awesome to get out there and play on that champaign surface BTW!)

I've had some great nights out at QBE (NHS) with great atmosphere, lots better then the Cake Tin. 

Watching the Kingz under Rufer the stadium was buzzing, the All Whites with Ngata, Elliot, Jackson, Coveny and co tearing up, the Knights at first before we all worked out they were poo, and watching Waikato kick NHs arse in the NPC multiple times back in the day.

Only vaguely on topic, but: could any of you 09 Oldtimers answer this question about Newmarket Park?

I've never understood how this venue worked for events. It seems like the single most inaccessible spot you could find by car, train or foot within 3km of the city center

— Cole (@Colemagoo) March 26, 2024

Doloras

Only vaguely on topic, but: could any of you 09 Oldtimers answer this question about Newmarket Park?

I've never understood how this venue worked for events. It seems like the single most inaccessible spot you could find by car, train or foot within 3km of the city center

— Cole (@Colemagoo) March 26, 2024

  You might also find it interesting that in the 80s they hosted New Zealand vs Mexico at Bill MicKinley park! 

20 Legend

Doloras

Only vaguely on topic, but: could any of you 09 Oldtimers answer this question about Newmarket Park?

I've never understood how this venue worked for events. It seems like the single most inaccessible spot you could find by car, train or foot within 3km of the city center

— Cole (@Colemagoo) March 26, 2024

  You might also find it interesting that in the 80s they hosted New Zealand vs Mexico at Bill MicKinley park! 

Bill McKinley isn't weirdly inaccessible, and back then Mt Wellington were the powerhouse club of Auckland

I went to a couple of games there, parking was just on the Parnell Streets. From memory, I think the fields at the bottom of Ayr(?)Street were also used. McKinley was the same, park on Ireland Road and around the roundabout

20 Legend

Doloras

Only vaguely on topic, but: could any of you 09 Oldtimers answer this question about Newmarket Park?

I've never understood how this venue worked for events. It seems like the single most inaccessible spot you could find by car, train or foot within 3km of the city center

— Cole (@Colemagoo) March 26, 2024

  You might also find it interesting that in the 80s they hosted New Zealand vs Mexico at Bill MicKinley park! 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350224881/national-stadium-getting-closer-becoming-reality-assessor-views-options

Nothing really new here. I just really wish they would scupper the idea of building a "National Stadium". Build a stadium that maximizes the user experience for the every day crowds, not the one offs. Anything over 25k just means a ton of added cost for not much usage. The cash saved can always be used to prop up Eden Park for the big one off stuff.  

RR

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350224881/national-stadium-getting-closer-becoming-reality-assessor-views-options

Nothing really new here. I just really wish they would scupper the idea of building a "National Stadium". Build a stadium that maximizes the user experience for the every day crowds, not the one offs. Anything over 25k just means a ton of added cost for not much usage. The cash saved can always be used to prop up Eden Park for the big one off stuff.  

A nice plan for the football or rugby fan, but a very bad idea for Auckland and it's rate payers. 

The above would just leave Eden Park as a glorified white elephant on prime residential land. Restricted to 1-2 ABs tests a year, and the current max 6 concerts.

The best outcome for Auckland is a 'National Stadium' downtown, with no restrictions on concerts, Crusty Demons or whoever, with as many events as possible and an ability to move into 'club mode' for sub 20-25K crowds. Without the max 6 concert rule that Eden Park operates under, who knows how many extra big acts/festivals/events may now be attracted to Auckland, especially if the new stadium has a roof. Could end up that place is sold out 20+ times per year.

None of us have any idea how effective club mode will be, or whether it will create a great match day atmosphere. It might be really good, it might be a bit flat - but it's a common solution around the world for cities similar to Auckland. You'd hope with some super smart engineering, sliding seats, acoustics etc it could work really well. Maybe in the not too far distant future the top tier could just be filled with AI generated AFC clad robots!

Will the new downtown National Stadium, you then demolish Eden Park, and add badly needed quality inner city housing to the 09. You can't ask Auckland rate payers to keep EP operating for say max 7-8 events per year, just so sports fans can have their smaller atmospheric downtown ground.

coochiee

RR

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350224881/national-stadium-getting-closer-becoming-reality-assessor-views-options

Nothing really new here. I just really wish they would scupper the idea of building a "National Stadium". Build a stadium that maximizes the user experience for the every day crowds, not the one offs. Anything over 25k just means a ton of added cost for not much usage. The cash saved can always be used to prop up Eden Park for the big one off stuff.  

A nice plan for the football or rugby fan, but a very bad idea for Auckland and it's rate payers. 

The above would just leave Eden Park as a glorified white elephant on prime residential land. Restricted to 1-2 ABs tests a year, and the current max 6 concerts.

The best outcome for Auckland is a 'National Stadium' downtown, with no restrictions on concerts, Crusty Demons or whoever, with as many events as possible and an ability to move into 'club mode' for sub 20-25K crowds. Without the max 6 concert rule that Eden Park operates under, who knows how many extra big acts/festivals/events may now be attracted to Auckland, especially if the new stadium has a roof. Could end up that place is sold out 20+ times per year.

None of us have any idea how effective club mode will be, or whether it will create a great match day atmosphere. It might be really good, it might be a bit flat - but it's a common solution around the world for cities similar to Auckland. You'd hope with some super smart engineering, sliding seats, acoustics etc it could work really well. Maybe in the not too far distant future the top tier could just be filled with AI generated AFC clad robots!

Will the new downtown National Stadium, you then demolish Eden Park, and add badly needed quality inner city housing to the 09. You can't ask Auckland rate payers to keep EP operating for say max 7-8 events per year, just so sports fans can have their smaller atmospheric downtown ground.

Surely it’s EP or the ‘National Stadium’? Couldn’t have both

Curse you coochiee, with your logical argument & valid points that I can't disagree with.

What the fascination back home with stadiums having roofs?

It adds a lot of cost for an often not great improvement to the sport/concert event but adds significant initial build and maintenance costs.

NZ has a problem of trying to platinum plate everything and then due too cost nothing happens at all e.g. Auckland light rail.

Here in Blighty where the weather is permanently shark, it's only the Millennium stadium in Cardiff that has one.

It's really only the USA, Canada and Japan where you get more then one or two and that's due to some of those places being properly cold and snowy, not an issue NZ has, even in Dunedin.

Marto

What the fascination back home with stadiums having roofs?

It adds a lot of cost for an often not great improvement to the sport/concert event but adds significant initial build and maintenance costs.

NZ has a problem of trying to platinum plate everything and then due too cost nothing happens at all e.g. Auckland light rail.

Here in Blighty where the weather is permanently shark, it's only the Millennium stadium in Cardiff that has one.

It's really only the USA, Canada and Japan where you get more then one or two and that's due to some of those places being properly cold and snowy, not an issue NZ has, even in Dunedin.

That’s not quite true actually. The weather isn’t anywhere near as bad as say it can be in the South Island or Wellington. It rains, yeah, but no snow loading no real wind loading. The ring of fire for example should have had a roof (and been rectangular yes, we know), and has had loads of events cancelled because of weather. It makes sense for these places to have one. In Auckland, I’d agree as a closed roof won’t likely be great for acoustics anyway as the cost to make it so would likely be prohibitive. Anyway, other places that have them,  there are at least a couple in NL (ArenA and Gelredome) and the bernabeu has one too.