All Whites Coach Discussion - Hay Fever

I don't understand how Des didn't get it after the u20 world Cup. It seemed so obvious. 

So you guys saying we waste another 2-4 years on making any progress?

NZF are like a guy walking around in the woods who accidentally stumbles upon common sense, and then just picks himself up and walks away from it as if nothing had happened.

Looking forward to my new supporters club. 

HAY FEVER

Seems an underwhelming appointment.

But then so was Ricki Herbert in 2005 who had a similar level of coaching experience (a couple of seasons coaching in the national league plus NZ age group sides)

Looking at the last of former All Whites coaches at the end of the NZ Football announcement (which only goes back to 1964), Hay is only our second NZ-born coach along with Herbert.

https://www.nzfootball.co.nz/newsarticle/81276?newsfeedId=newslist

NZ Football think we didn't have a national team before 1964 !!! 

LOL !!!

Complete bollocks...

So they say Hay is our "18th national coach"...

Bad news for all the players who gained caps before 1964 (and the national coaches)... 

(Actually it seems NZ had a national side as early as 1904 and played its first full internationals, three matches against Australia, in 1921):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_national_football_team#Early_years

The irony is, we've suddenly got some players coming through to make up a decent team...

I still think right now coaching the All Whites is an entirely hypothetical prospect given we don't play!   

While I wouldn't like to give NZ Football much credit, it appears they only missed one manager in Ken Armstrong who managed the team from 1957-1964 making Hay actually 19th NZ Manager. Before that it appears it was a selection committee, so I'm not sure how that worked with selecting the actual team to play on game day.

Also while they played in 1904, they didn't play again until 1921.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Zealand_national_football_team_managers

Aye, but before 1964 the teams were selected by committee and the "coach" as they were was really just a trainer

back in the Selection committee days there was no such thing as substitutes so the committee would select an XI and then name 2-3 emergencies, these players would only play if any of the original XI got injured before the game

Ken Armstrong did coach the side but I'm not sure he was "officially" the coach, he was the senior player and took on the mantle of coaching but I think Lou Brocic was the first person employed specifically as coach of the NZ team (although I'd have to check that out for definate)

Should of signed Sven Goran Erikkson

How much $$ money would a All Whites coach get?. 

i'm ok with this but it seems as if Des was standing there frantically waving his arms in front of us, and we just walked around him and gave Danny a call

I really dont like the idea of Hay as our coach but I also really hope he proves me completely wrong and does really well and produces some good footy. Its also going to take him a bit of time to get himself settled so Im going to try and hold back on moaning about his efforts, Ive had a moan earlier in the thread, time to let him get a fair go at it.

Not sure if NZF has any staff, let alone any young attractive female staff for Sven to get friendly with.

At least Des is the assistant, so hopefully they can replicate the style of play the u20's did this year. 

Kind of like when Emblen was the obvious choice and we went with Hudson.

Can the Nix get Des in as an assistant coach? At least some of our younger players would develop in a positive manner with him knowing them. Hoofball will not help them at all.

In breaking news, Brian Turner is coming out of retirement to play for the All Whites.

man, what a player he was

One thing I will say about Hay is that he knows how to set a team up to work super effectively without the ball. Coaches don't often get credit from such abilities. 

Watch his teams play, they know how to channel the opposition and set traps.

that's all well and good, but the game in  has moved on from playing without the ball, the players we have right now need a coach who wants to play a style that allows them to hold possession and strike.

it will be a step forward if the AW's actually end up playing some games, but if we go back to playing ricki-ball or some variant of defensive counter attack long ball then we will take a massive step backwards.

Who is the better coach, Hay or Buckingham, I have no idea.

However I'd be massively surprised if Hay setup the AWs to play hoofball. 

ES may have been a bunch of kids moulded by Edge, but Hay didn't stop them from playing attractive football.

He would have also seen the success Buckingham had with the U20s (many of whom also came through the Ole factory), and sense of goodwill that team gave the NZ football fraternity by playing along the floor. I'm sure Hay isn't an idiot. I'm also sure coaches (esp young coaches) keep on evolving. The way he coached the U17s a few years ago, probably ain't going to be the same as to how AWs will look. 

Not saying he's the right pick, but lets see how the AWs go in November, before writing him off as a disaster. Hope him and Buckingham can work together, be a sad situation if not.  

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/115286820/new-all-whites-coach-danny-hay-eager-to-reconnect-with-the-team-he-once-captained

Good lord, what an utterly moronic response

The exact point about being well set up without the ball is so that players do not run around like headless chickens whilst attempting to get it back

I think you'll find that a team spends approximately 50% of each game without the ball and each player 94% to 97% of a game without it ;-)

How effective a team is without the ball is a very important part of the game. My observations of Hay are that he's very good at it.

I have other observations that are not so positive. For example, his teams cannot vary tempo, and 20 short passes across a back 4 followed by a hoof upfield does not make the hoof any less of a hoof.

I agree

After what we've seen from Des's teams, there will be a lot of pressure on Hay to play the right way and he won't last long if he doesn't

My issue is that Des has shown that he can, and IMO Hay hasn't

Time and again Rojas has been a bit of dud for the AWs, against quality teams anyway. 

Sure Hudson may not have always used him in the right way, but wouldn't be surprised if in a year or so he's been surpassed by others.

Not sure why we are so angsty about this appointment. This he's on par with Des. Played some pretty nice football in the Handa Prem. Now alot of you on here will say thats Declan. That might be true to an extent but it was ultimately Danny at the helm wanting to play that way and he got the system to work. Like players, believe it or not coaches learn and develop also. 

All things considered this is a good appointment.

/ knows the landscape of NZ football

/ Knows what hes getting himself in for. lack of games, lack of resources/support, Island conditions, player 'injuries' etc

As long as Buckingham is retained as an assistant, and him and Hay get along, I'm happy.

Also feel Hay is a sort of a link to the older veterans, like Reid, Smith, Boxall, Wood etc. These guys may want to play a more conservative brand of football. Who knows but they will weld a shark load of power in the dressing room. Buckingham will be virtually unknown to them, which would have counted against him somewhat. But Hay also knows many of the younger guys esp those at ES.

If Buckingham is in there as an assistant, then you have a coach sort of in each camp. Not that you want clicks in a team, but there will just naturally be an age divide between the veterans, some of whom have been around since WC 2010, and youngsters who are the future.

do we know if there's a concerted effort from within NZF to get these teams set up playing the attractive brand that Des showed? Hay's ES side showed flashes (mostly from Just, McCowatt and Wooldridge as the rest of the team wasn't great for that kind of play). I have hope that the U20 success kind of moulds the direction NZ football wants to go in

also nothing saying Des won't be doing a whole lot behind the scenes, he's assistant after all!

I think 90% of the angst is people who saw how Des had the U20's playing at the World Cup, along with a bit of the make-shift U23 team winning their tournament and then dreaming of seeing that sort of dynamic make it's way into the full senior mens team.

The angst is there because a lot of people believe Hay's toolkit is too limited for him to be successful as a manager at this level.

I don't know enough about their abilities to comment but both seem to come across well in the media and obviously Des and his style of play at the under 20s was impressive

For those of you not impressed with Danny being top dog

If Des had been made the head coach would you have been ok with Hay as his assistant?

Hay is a fantastic appointment.  Really pleased with this.

Feel free to quote me in a few years but from an out liner's point of view this is what NZ football needs.  Sick of any one with an accent almost taking over NZ football when they wouldn't have a chance in their own country. 

At least we know that Danny cares about the footballing future of our country, alot better than a foreigner coming in and using this as a stepping stone or money just like Huddo and Fritz.

- Regularly wasn't available for the All Whites as a player

- Bailed out mid-season on the Knights when they weren't good enough for Perth Glory

- Left an U-17 tour to Zorro as his assistant while he went to the US to prep for a school team tour.

- Politically maneuvered his way into an NZ Football job at the expense of people more qualified 

Yep. Always about NZ Football.

With friends like most of you lot, who needs enemies? 

Whether we like it or not, Hay came through the recruitment process as the best option. He got the gig, so suck it up and back the lads.

Hi Danny.... or Declan.

Would have preferred Des, but Danny has my support until he does something to lose it.

If he was about the hoof as mentioned here, Declan would have pulled his kids out of ES without a second thought and slammed Hay via social media as a backwards thinker. The fact that he didn't suggests Hay might try to play football in a positive way.

Time will tell.