As an aside, Should or could NZ offer friendlies against other teams that have qualified, to assist them with their respective build ups and to give our players the experience against good sides. As a bonus, any games here would be great to promote the side.
All Whites Coach Discussion - Hay Fever
As an aside, Should or could NZ offer friendlies against other teams that have qualified, to assist them with their respective build ups and to give our players the experience against good sides. As a bonus, any games here would be great to promote the side.
They should but the opportunity to do it is limited. Only window before the WC is September and we play the Socceroos - hopefully twice. Bit odd the 2nd game, rumoured for Brisbane to be played before EP match, still not confirmed yet.
Then WC starts Nov 21st, with Euro leagues not halting until very close to that date. EPL only stops Nov 13th as one example, so won’t be easy to get in more than 1 pre WC friendly for most teams.
Obvious targets for NZF are France, Denmark and Tunisia who have Socceroos in their pool. AWs traditional role as pseudo Socceroos! Those teams are in action early on day 2 of the WC, but I reckon the Tunisians esp could be keen on a game. Won’t know much about football in our part of the world and they will be targeting Aus for a win.
Also does FIFA allow non qualified teams to play friendlies against each other during the WC? If so why don’t we play Scotland, Sweden, Italy, Ireland, Norway, Ukraine, Colombia, Chile, UAE, Egypt or someone.
Can't help but think that if we'd not been stuffed by Oceania playing its games so late, the boys might have had a chance for a few more big nation games. That experience (like the Confeds for previous AW sides) might have made the difference to us being gutted about fudgeing VAR and comfortably preparing for Spain, Japan and Germany in November.
Ended up just randomly listening to Seamus Marten and Steve Holloway's podcast interview with Des Buckingham. Couple of things came to mind:
1) Dale, outstanding question. Just, gold.
2) The way his whole exit happened was just utter nonsense
3) Most importantly - there HAS to be a way for this man to be involved in NZ football in some capacity. Everything about his approach to coaching and culture and stuff just sounds outstanding. We cannot afford to let a resource that good leave permanently.
This podcast just reminded me again how much I'd like to see this guy coach the All Whites. Not saying Danny Hay has necessarily done anything wrong (although asking NZF to replace Des with Darren Bazeley was, um, interesting...), but I just get the sense that he would bring something remarkable to the job, with the players that we have.
1) Dale, outstanding question. Just, gold.
2) The way his whole exit happened was just utter nonsense
3) Most importantly - there HAS to be a way for this man to be involved in NZ football in some capacity. Everything about his approach to coaching and culture and stuff just sounds outstanding. We cannot afford to let a resource that good leave permanently.
This podcast just reminded me again how much I'd like to see this guy coach the All Whites. Not saying Danny Hay has necessarily done anything wrong (although asking NZF to replace Des with Darren Bazeley was, um, interesting...), but I just get the sense that he would bring something remarkable to the job, with the players that we have.
Ended up just randomly listening to Seamus Marten and Steve Holloway's podcast interview with Des Buckingham. Couple of things came to mind:
1) Dale, outstanding question. Just, gold.
2) The way his whole exit happened was just utter nonsense
3) Most importantly - there HAS to be a way for this man to be involved in NZ football in some capacity. Everything about his approach to coaching and culture and stuff just sounds outstanding. We cannot afford to let a resource that good leave permanently.
This podcast just reminded me again how much I'd like to see this guy coach the All Whites. Not saying Danny Hay has necessarily done anything wrong (although asking NZF to replace Des with Darren Bazeley was, um, interesting...), but I just get the sense that he would bring something remarkable to the job, with the players that we have.
1) Dale, outstanding question. Just, gold.
2) The way his whole exit happened was just utter nonsense
3) Most importantly - there HAS to be a way for this man to be involved in NZ football in some capacity. Everything about his approach to coaching and culture and stuff just sounds outstanding. We cannot afford to let a resource that good leave permanently.
This podcast just reminded me again how much I'd like to see this guy coach the All Whites. Not saying Danny Hay has necessarily done anything wrong (although asking NZF to replace Des with Darren Bazeley was, um, interesting...), but I just get the sense that he would bring something remarkable to the job, with the players that we have.
He has a solid head coaching job in the CFG in Mumbai, I can’t see any reason he’d want to leave that to pick up the All Whites’ job where he won’t really be doing anything for a couple years. Its a big change going from club to country, you get a fraction of the contact time to implement your ideas and probably for less money too.
I don’t think them working together is in the pipeline either. There isn’t the budget, nor would I imagine either of their egos would let them. FWIW, both got given the best age group squads ever taken to an U20 and Olympics with big crossover of players, and both finished second in the group and lost on penalties in the first knockout stage to teams who would lose the very next game. It probably doesn’t really make much difference anyway, whoever coaches will qualify in 2026 and will more than likely go out in the groups.
Ended up just randomly listening to Seamus Marten and Steve Holloway's podcast interview with Des Buckingham. Couple of things came to mind:
1) Dale, outstanding question. Just, gold.
2) The way his whole exit happened was just utter nonsense
3) Most importantly - there HAS to be a way for this man to be involved in NZ football in some capacity. Everything about his approach to coaching and culture and stuff just sounds outstanding. We cannot afford to let a resource that good leave permanently.
This podcast just reminded me again how much I'd like to see this guy coach the All Whites. Not saying Danny Hay has necessarily done anything wrong (although asking NZF to replace Des with Darren Bazeley was, um, interesting...), but I just get the sense that he would bring something remarkable to the job, with the players that we have.
1) Dale, outstanding question. Just, gold.
2) The way his whole exit happened was just utter nonsense
3) Most importantly - there HAS to be a way for this man to be involved in NZ football in some capacity. Everything about his approach to coaching and culture and stuff just sounds outstanding. We cannot afford to let a resource that good leave permanently.
This podcast just reminded me again how much I'd like to see this guy coach the All Whites. Not saying Danny Hay has necessarily done anything wrong (although asking NZF to replace Des with Darren Bazeley was, um, interesting...), but I just get the sense that he would bring something remarkable to the job, with the players that we have.
He has a solid head coaching job in the CFG in Mumbai, I can’t see any reason he’d want to leave that to pick up the All Whites’ job where he won’t really be doing anything for a couple years. Its a big change going from club to country, you get a fraction of the contact time to implement your ideas and probably for less money too.
I don’t think them working together is in the pipeline either. There isn’t the budget, nor would I imagine either of their egos would let them. FWIW, both got given the best age group squads ever taken to an U20 and Olympics with big crossover of players, and both finished second in the group and lost on penalties in the first knockout stage to teams who would lose the very next game. It probably doesn’t really make much difference anyway, whoever coaches will qualify in 2026 and will more than likely go out in the groups.
Yipe agree with most of that. The AWs coaching gig ain't that attractive, if you have a good club gig somewhere.
But somewhat optimistic that AWs could get out a 3 team group in 2026. Probably means you just need to win one game. The bleeding obvious but will all come down to who the 2 other teams are, especially the team from Pot B - presuming there are 3 Pots and AWs will be in Pot C.
Hearing from multiple sources including staff within NZF that there is going to be an independent review launched into the All Whites World Cup environment due to several issues and complaints from players and staff. Muir Report part 2 from what I am hearing.
Independent Review Inquiries are fast becoming New Zealand's actual national sport...
Sad to hear that. Even though I thought Des might have got the shout over Danny, I thought Hay seems to have done a good job from the way the teams played. That’s usually a reflection of good culture.
It was strange to see two players left out due to illness like that.
Pity the bullying couldn’t be done on the pitch to the opposition!
It was strange to see two players left out due to illness like that.
Pity the bullying couldn’t be done on the pitch to the opposition!
There's no doubt in my mind that we would have been better off with Des but we blew it and why would he give us a second chance? He got the cultural aspects right and developed a clear style of play. His teams had a plan on attack and performed at or above the sum of it's parts.
illness was Covid.
Hearing from multiple sources including staff within NZF that there is going to be an independent review launched into the All Whites World Cup environment due to several issues and complaints from players and staff. Muir Report part 2 from what I am hearing.
Hearing from multiple sources including staff within NZF that there is going to be an independent review launched into the All Whites World Cup environment due to several issues and complaints from players and staff. Muir Report part 2 from what I am hearing.
Really hope it ain't true. Not because I'm a huge Hay fan or anything. But there is an undercurrent of positivity about the AWs, especially with a eye to the future and this very talented group (by NZ standards) of younger players. Pretty positive feeling around NZ football as a whole. Got 2 big games against Socceroos coming up, incl finally a game at home, WWC next year and the Nix men's and women's teams playing games actually in NZ this new season. Some Kiwis overseas potentially signing at higher level clubs.
Would just be sad to see a lot of that undermined by another ugly review out there in the public domain. Already sad/flat enough losing to Costa Rica. So really hope this rumour ain't true, but if it is they deal with it privately in house. You can still make good changes, sack/sanction people for bad behaviour etc without having to air it all publicly. Anyway is all just a rumour at this stage.
If there is, I hope Hay walks away and takes his staff (coaches anyway) with him. Save the commission. Culture starts and stops with the coach in reality.
I'm going to be mind blown if Danny Hay is at the centre of some toxic environment within the AWs camp...
A shame I also thought the AWs were on a very good trajectory and nice to have a bit of substance behind the football.
A shame I also thought the AWs were on a very good trajectory and nice to have a bit of substance behind the football.
Obviously not sure what this is about but I do know the hotel and training facilities used in Doha were top notch and the hotel in Barcelona was close to the stadium and public transport although not as nice as the Doha one.
Only questionable thing I’ve noticed is that on at least one flight not all of the team traveled in business (Spain to Qatar I think). Working in the industry, I know long haul is very busy right now so NZF may not have been able to procure business seats in the first place.
Only questionable thing I’ve noticed is that on at least one flight not all of the team traveled in business (Spain to Qatar I think). Working in the industry, I know long haul is very busy right now so NZF may not have been able to procure business seats in the first place.
What type of sauces?
Like is your info from Players? Coaches? Etc
Like is your info from Players? Coaches? Etc
Source of review happening is from someone within NZF.
Some of specific examples from player/staff members who were there that in cases I won't name names or full details: Have been told more but some cases maybe more specific to individuals & not seen/known by the entire group.
- Secret player meeting 2 nights before the game to discuss a number of concerns about the coaching and environment
- Conflict between Chris Wood & Danny the night before the game
- Senior member of staff who was COVID+ removing himself from isolation after 4 days (breaking NZF and Government policy) in the lead-up to the game putting the group in harm. Incidentally same staff member who was put on gardening leave for 3 days prior to a 4 hour mediation meeting with Future Ferns staff over misogynist/sexist comments last year.
Complaints from the playing group straight to the CEO who was in Doha about these things & more hence the independent review.
Previous complaints/concerns were felt not to have been taken seriously by NZF.
Some of specific examples from player/staff members who were there that in cases I won't name names or full details: Have been told more but some cases maybe more specific to individuals & not seen/known by the entire group.
- Secret player meeting 2 nights before the game to discuss a number of concerns about the coaching and environment
- Conflict between Chris Wood & Danny the night before the game
- Senior member of staff who was COVID+ removing himself from isolation after 4 days (breaking NZF and Government policy) in the lead-up to the game putting the group in harm. Incidentally same staff member who was put on gardening leave for 3 days prior to a 4 hour mediation meeting with Future Ferns staff over misogynist/sexist comments last year.
Complaints from the playing group straight to the CEO who was in Doha about these things & more hence the independent review.
Previous complaints/concerns were felt not to have been taken seriously by NZF.
Wow, that sounds like good bully. Might explain Hay’s response to being asked if he wanted to carry on or not.
Be pretty shocking if the sick players caught COVID from the official that left self isolation early.
I'm not too bothered about a coach and (some) players have a testy relationship. It happens in high performance environments and people can work together despite that.
But the isolation breach and harrassment stuff is inexcusable. Even if it wasn't Danny himself, he sets the expectations (read: Culture™), and that should be enough to see him gone.
Assuming these are true, my prediction is this will get swept under the carpet, Hay won't seek re-appointment and will walk away claiming he wants to pursue other opportunities or spend more time with his family.
But the isolation breach and harrassment stuff is inexcusable. Even if it wasn't Danny himself, he sets the expectations (read: Culture™), and that should be enough to see him gone.
Assuming these are true, my prediction is this will get swept under the carpet, Hay won't seek re-appointment and will walk away claiming he wants to pursue other opportunities or spend more time with his family.
Give Des the reigns. Pay the man what he’s worth, let him appoint his own team, give him the freedom to manage and organise this team however he likes. He was the most committed, talented and successful coach NZ Football have had in a long, long time.
Sick of this organisation looking like they’re on the cusp of something great and then throwing it away with poor behaviour, treatment and decision making.
Buckingham did more for NZ Football in his time here than most people involved will do in their entire career. Tbh I’d be very surprised if he ever wants to come back, especially now that City Football Group seem to be treating him like we should’ve, but if anyone can achieve great things with this team, it’s Des.
Sick of this organisation looking like they’re on the cusp of something great and then throwing it away with poor behaviour, treatment and decision making.
Buckingham did more for NZ Football in his time here than most people involved will do in their entire career. Tbh I’d be very surprised if he ever wants to come back, especially now that City Football Group seem to be treating him like we should’ve, but if anyone can achieve great things with this team, it’s Des.
Obviously not sure what this is about but I do know the hotel and training facilities used in Doha were top notch and the hotel in Barcelona was close to the stadium and public transport although not as nice as the Doha one.
Only questionable thing I’ve noticed is that on at least one flight not all of the team traveled in business (Spain to Qatar I think). Working in the industry, I know long haul is very busy right now so NZF may not have been able to procure business seats in the first place.
Only questionable thing I’ve noticed is that on at least one flight not all of the team traveled in business (Spain to Qatar I think). Working in the industry, I know long haul is very busy right now so NZF may not have been able to procure business seats in the first place.
They flew economy back to New Zealand too.
Obviously not sure what this is about but I do know the hotel and training facilities used in Doha were top notch and the hotel in Barcelona was close to the stadium and public transport although not as nice as the Doha one.
Only questionable thing I’ve noticed is that on at least one flight not all of the team traveled in business (Spain to Qatar I think). Working in the industry, I know long haul is very busy right now so NZF may not have been able to procure business seats in the first place.
Only questionable thing I’ve noticed is that on at least one flight not all of the team traveled in business (Spain to Qatar I think). Working in the industry, I know long haul is very busy right now so NZF may not have been able to procure business seats in the first place.
They flew economy back to New Zealand too.
Missing out on the $16.5M FIFA payday for not winning the Playoff, already having ramifications?
That's alot of cash to go without, over the next 4 years.
Be pretty shocking if the sick players caught COVID from the official that left self isolation early.
https://www.nzfootball.co.nz/newsarticle/117482?newsfeedId=1275622
The September fixtures will be the last All Whites games of the year as New Zealand Football shifts focus to planning activity in 2023 and the start of campaigns for the Paris 2024 Olympics and FIFA World Cup 2026.
Ahead of 2023, New Zealand Football will also be carrying out an independent campaign de-brief of the FIFA World Cup 2022 qualifying cycle, as has been undertaken for previous major national team activity, including most recently the FIFA Women’s World Cup 2019. The objective of the de-brief is to analyse what went well and could be improved from the campaign, identifying recommendations to take into future national team activity.
The September fixtures will be the last All Whites games of the year as New Zealand Football shifts focus to planning activity in 2023 and the start of campaigns for the Paris 2024 Olympics and FIFA World Cup 2026.
Ahead of 2023, New Zealand Football will also be carrying out an independent campaign de-brief of the FIFA World Cup 2022 qualifying cycle, as has been undertaken for previous major national team activity, including most recently the FIFA Women’s World Cup 2019. The objective of the de-brief is to analyse what went well and could be improved from the campaign, identifying recommendations to take into future national team activity.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/new-zealand-football-to-conduct-independent-review-into-all-whites-fifa-world-cup-qualification-campaign/UNLJDJGDUQQE2Q6LLGPHW2MXOQ/
Hidden behind the paywall but some further information on the review.
Employment lawyer Don Mackinnon to conduct it with very narrow terms of reference, interviewing most of the staff involved and players, although it's not clear if representative group of players or all of them. Apparently these reviews are usual for campaigns, but one has to ask why a lawyer does them if there were not some employment issues underpinning the review?
Also throws in the sudden resignation of the GM of high performance Gareth Jennings as unrelated to the review. Says the feeling about the campaign within NZF is highly positive.
Hidden behind the paywall but some further information on the review.
Employment lawyer Don Mackinnon to conduct it with very narrow terms of reference, interviewing most of the staff involved and players, although it's not clear if representative group of players or all of them. Apparently these reviews are usual for campaigns, but one has to ask why a lawyer does them if there were not some employment issues underpinning the review?
Also throws in the sudden resignation of the GM of high performance Gareth Jennings as unrelated to the review. Says the feeling about the campaign within NZF is highly positive.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/new-zealand-football-to-conduct-independent-review-into-all-whites-fifa-world-cup-qualification-campaign/UNLJDJGDUQQE2Q6LLGPHW2MXOQ/
Hidden behind the paywall but some further information on the review.
Employment lawyer Don Mackinnon to conduct it with very narrow terms of reference, interviewing most of the staff involved and players, although it's not clear if representative group of players or all of them. Apparently these reviews are usual for campaigns, but one has to ask why a lawyer does them if there were not some employment issues underpinning the review?
Also throws in the sudden resignation of the GM of high performance Gareth Jennings as unrelated to the review. Says the feeling about the campaign within NZF is highly positive.
Hidden behind the paywall but some further information on the review.
Employment lawyer Don Mackinnon to conduct it with very narrow terms of reference, interviewing most of the staff involved and players, although it's not clear if representative group of players or all of them. Apparently these reviews are usual for campaigns, but one has to ask why a lawyer does them if there were not some employment issues underpinning the review?
Also throws in the sudden resignation of the GM of high performance Gareth Jennings as unrelated to the review. Says the feeling about the campaign within NZF is highly positive.
Yes unfortunately I think if an Employment lawyer is involved, there was very likely some issues within camp.
If everything was good within camp, then surely you just need an independent football/sports guru to review the campaign, from a purely football angle.
Never heard of Gareth Jennings. Get Rob Sherman back at Albany - he's working over the bridge in St Johns with OFC.
I think it's notable that it's being run by someone outside of the organisation. If there has been compliant previously that haven't be acted on, then NZF needed to go outside for a reviewer otherwise it would look like a total coverup if(once?) the information comes out.
NZF framing this as "nothing to see here" is quite laughable.
NZF framing this as "nothing to see here" is quite laughable.
Listening to Danny on the news I think the decision has already been made for him. With the review findings due out after the games v Aussie and rumoured to be pretty damning on many things involving him and the environment, it’s likely the decision is already known.
There is talk of a previous NZF coach arriving into NZ next week to be at the game in Auckland which could just be a coincidence ………… or not.
There is talk of a previous NZF coach arriving into NZ next week to be at the game in Auckland which could just be a coincidence ………… or not.
Hay only has a few months on his contract. If the report about the culture is a damning as expected then maybe we'll see him moved on for some new blood, but then he was on the radio this morning saying we needed more home and away games against non-oceania teams, so perhaps he's looking to be extended witha vision for the future?
Hay only has a few months on his contract. If the report about the culture is a damning as expected then maybe we'll see him moved on for some new blood, but then he was on the radio this morning saying we needed more home and away games against non-oceania teams, so perhaps he's looking to be extended witha vision for the future?
Listening to Danny on the news I think the decision has already been made for him. With the review findings due out after the games v Aussie and rumoured to be pretty damning on many things involving him and the environment, it’s likely the decision is already known.
There is talk of a previous NZF coach arriving into NZ next week to be at the game in Auckland which could just be a coincidence ………… or not.
There is talk of a previous NZF coach arriving into NZ next week to be at the game in Auckland which could just be a coincidence ………… or not.
Just wondering, and I'm probably completely wrong - but could Bazeley, Hay or whoever have said something disaparging about number of games Football Ferns play in comparison to the All Whites, around the corridors of NZF??
Probably off the mark, but just a thought.
Chris Wood debuted in 2009 for AWs and has played 68 games.
Ali Riley debuted in 2007 for the Ferns and has played 144 games (over double).
Yet I believe the AWs (through International Teams Fund - 2010 WC FIFA dosh & 2013 Mexico TV rights pesos), basically fund all the international programs both mens & womens.
Listening to Danny on the news I think the decision has already been made for him. With the review findings due out after the games v Aussie and rumoured to be pretty damning on many things involving him and the environment, it’s likely the decision is already known.
There is talk of a previous NZF coach arriving into NZ next week to be at the game in Auckland which could just be a coincidence ………… or not.
There is talk of a previous NZF coach arriving into NZ next week to be at the game in Auckland which could just be a coincidence ………… or not.
Just wondering, and I'm probably completely wrong - but could Bazeley, Hay or whoever have said something disaparging about number of games Football Ferns play in comparison to the All Whites, around the corridors of NZF??
Probably off the mark, but just a thought.
Chris Wood debuted in 2009 for AWs and has played 68 games.
Ali Riley debuted in 2007 for the Ferns and has played 144 games (over double).
Yet I believe the AWs (through International Teams Fund - 2010 WC FIFA dosh & 2013 Mexico TV rights pesos), basically fund all the international programs both mens & womens.
Listening to Danny on the news I think the decision has already been made for him. With the review findings due out after the games v Aussie and rumoured to be pretty damning on many things involving him and the environment, it’s likely the decision is already known.
There is talk of a previous NZF coach arriving into NZ next week to be at the game in Auckland which could just be a coincidence ………… or not.
There is talk of a previous NZF coach arriving into NZ next week to be at the game in Auckland which could just be a coincidence ………… or not.
Just wondering, and I'm probably completely wrong - but could Bazeley, Hay or whoever have said something disaparging about number of games Football Ferns play in comparison to the All Whites, around the corridors of NZF??
Probably off the mark, but just a thought.
Chris Wood debuted in 2009 for AWs and has played 68 games.
Ali Riley debuted in 2007 for the Ferns and has played 144 games (over double).
Yet I believe the AWs (through International Teams Fund - 2010 WC FIFA dosh & 2013 Mexico TV rights pesos), basically fund all the international programs both mens & womens.
Also a lot of "friendly" games the Ferns play are mini tournaments ie She Believes Cup, Algarve Cup so they play 4-5 games when the All Whites will play 1-2
Listening to Danny on the news I think the decision has already been made for him. With the review findings due out after the games v Aussie and rumoured to be pretty damning on many things involving him and the environment, it’s likely the decision is already known.
There is talk of a previous NZF coach arriving into NZ next week to be at the game in Auckland which could just be a coincidence ………… or not.
There is talk of a previous NZF coach arriving into NZ next week to be at the game in Auckland which could just be a coincidence ………… or not.
Just wondering, and I'm probably completely wrong - but could Bazeley, Hay or whoever have said something disaparging about number of games Football Ferns play in comparison to the All Whites, around the corridors of NZF??
Probably off the mark, but just a thought.
Chris Wood debuted in 2009 for AWs and has played 68 games.
Ali Riley debuted in 2007 for the Ferns and has played 144 games (over double).
Yet I believe the AWs (through International Teams Fund - 2010 WC FIFA dosh & 2013 Mexico TV rights pesos), basically fund all the international programs both mens & womens.
For the All Whites there has been 1 World Cup (3 games), 2 Confederations' Cups (6 games) and 3 OFC Nations' Cups (16 games), so 25 tournament matches.
It's also worth noting that for the WWC in 2011, 2015 and 2019 the Nations' Cup was the entire qualification process for the Ferns. That meant they only played 5 games in 2011 (aggregate of 50-0), 3 games (with an aggregate score of 30-0) to qualify in 2015, and 5 in 2019 (with an aggregate score of 43-0). As for Olympic qualifying, 2008 consisted of one game (2-0 win over PNG), 2012 of two (15-0agg over PNG), 2016 of one (7-1 win over PNG) and then 2020 was just a double-up with 2019 WC qualifying.
The All Whites qualification process was 11 games long in 2014 and again in 2018 (plus two more each in the 2012 and 2016 OFCNC semis and final which didn't affect qualifying). In 2010 the process was just the 6 NC games, with the winner getting to the IC playoff. So the All Whites have played 30 'qualifiers' for their last three World Cups, whereas the Ferns have played only 13 (+4 Olympic qualifiers), so it should more than balance out the additional tournaments.
As to the original point about Hay asking for more games, that doesn't necessarily mean he's keeping the job, as the point holds true regardless. I imagine he'd still remain a fan at the very least if he gets replaced, given he is a proud New Zealander. If he does leave then it would almost certainly mean a return to having to bring in a foreign coach, as there aren't many New Zealanders coaching at the top level in the National Leagues, let alone anywhere else.