Is this the team, that is going to represent us at the 2015 U-20 World cup. Come on NZ football this is a joke. They cant pass or defend. They gave the ball away 30 odd times. I cant blame the players, the build up was terrible. The players have never seen S.American football before, what do you expect! U-20 world cup is important for NZ football. Give them some funds!! The last two cycles were better. Uruguay should of won 10-0.
All Whites, Ferns, and other international teams
New Zealand Men's U-17s
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I didn't expect that really disappointing... The lack of top class opposition to play against just kills them they need 10 games ( Japan.Aussie. States and a sth American) teams...preparation is a joke
I still think there are so many quality players in that team....maybe a more defensive mind set is better, but then everybody slags them off for not getting out and playing..!
Steve Cain did a fantastic job with 2009 team and did a good job with the 2011 team. Until ! .. Defensive yep but out of group stage...
I'm guttered for them and hope they can pick up something v italia..
Also de Jong deserved to be picked so what that his Dad as the boss......
we only sing when were winning
Is this the team, that is going to represent us at the 2015 U-20 World cup. Come on NZ football this is a joke. They cant pass or defend. They gave the ball away 30 odd times. I cant blame the players, the build up was terrible. The players have never seen S.American football before, what do you expect! U-20 world cup is important for NZ football. Give them some funds!! The last two cycles were better. Uruguay should of won 10-0.
How many of the last u17 were then in the next u20 team?
Just a couple of things - I think it's harsh to be too critical of the midfield, they really didn't get time on the ball and the big thing for me was we didn't have any decent outlets (especially wide). The Holthusen kid didn't hold the ball up well enough, often enough and Patterson was similarly off with his first touch.
Agathos got exposed too frequently in behind, but looked good enough in one-on-one situations.
I have bias with Kelliher but I love how composed he always looks - pity he didn't get much opportunity to get forward.
The worst thing was just our pitiful marking - I know it would've been hot and I'm not underestimating the Uruguayans movement but the amount of times our lads were caught flat footed and a yard or three off their man was embarrassing.
I tend to feel similar to Smithy and wonder if the players rated themselves a bit highly after a relatively good build-up (results-wise) and generally being used to being the best in our tiny pond. No doubt it's a huge wake up call.
When we get knocked out of the world cup. This team becomes the most important for NZ football in the next two years. U-20 world cup is an important event internationally. Maybe we can lobby the government for some funds for this team (ie. Americas cup). They need to play world wide teams regularly. As well as playing in the NZFC. When we hosted the U-17 WC, way back when. That team played 10-15 friendlies world wide, to get the team in shape. We need a good showing at this tournament. Im sure we will play Uruguay in the group stage!
Is this the team, that is going to represent us at the 2015 U-20 World cup. Come on NZ football this is a joke. They cant pass or defend. They gave the ball away 30 odd times. I cant blame the players, the build up was terrible. The players have never seen S.American football before, what do you expect! U-20 world cup is important for NZ football. Give them some funds!! The last two cycles were better. Uruguay should of won 10-0.
How many of the last u17 were then in the next u20 team?
Im sure we will get the core from this team. there will be a few changes of course. I remember Rojas didn't make the grade at U-17 level. But I expect a few to make the U-20 team.
Yep fair enough. I'm not saying it's cut/dried. Just saying what my impression was. I have a sneaking suspicion this group thought they were quite good and when reality hit home they didn't really step up.
I'm just watching a replay now, and Rufer is spending a lot of time walking casually around the place. It's only 1-0 at this stage.
But I can totally see where you're coming from too and it is terribly difficult to judge "effort" just by watching the tele.
Grumpy old bastard alert
That's not true. I quite like Fred as a bloke, and I have no feelings for Andre.
Mine's more a factual position. When your dad is technical director, and is the guy walking down the line being introduced like "somebody" to the other team, it is hard to imagine the coach (who your dad is the boss of) doesn't feel some pressure to play you. And when you come on for 9 minutes and 30 seconds at the end of a game, well that sort of reinforces the point...
It is inescapable.
Just like at my job, if someone's child gets a job - even though they have to go through the standard interview process - it is inescapable that their relationship to mum/dad had some positive impact.
Fred and family just have to live with it.
totally disagree with you - some people just have more moral fibre than that. I guess it would never cross your mind that Andre deserved to be there.
On the flip slide isn't it easy for someone to doubt someones ability when they are in the situation Andre is - much easier than having to actually look at it objectively.
Grumpy old bastard alert
I dont think rufer or ridenton had any swagger per say
They played like most NZ age group sides which is crap. Unable to string more than 1 or 2 passes together, terrible first touch etc etc
That's not true. I quite like Fred as a bloke, and I have no feelings for Andre.
Mine's more a factual position. When your dad is technical director, and is the guy walking down the line being introduced like "somebody" to the other team, it is hard to imagine the coach (who your dad is the boss of) doesn't feel some pressure to play you. And when you come on for 9 minutes and 30 seconds at the end of a game, well that sort of reinforces the point...
It is inescapable.
Just like at my job, if someone's child gets a job - even though they have to go through the standard interview process - it is inescapable that their relationship to mum/dad had some positive impact.
Fred and family just have to live with it.
totally disagree with you - some people just have more moral fibre than that. I guess it would never cross your mind that Andre deserved to be there.
On the flip slide isn't it easy for someone to doubt someones ability when they are in the situation Andre is - much easier than having to actually look at it objectively.
again I disagree - you have nothing more to prove this than a feeling. Also someone said above something about Fred being there in an official capacity - is he? has that been confirmed somewhere or is he just there as a parent?
Like I said it's easy to point the finger and make the connection you guys have made - for me it's disapointing that for guys who know so much about football that your not prepared to give everyone involved the benefit of the doubt.
Got a message from one of the players at 3.30am their time - couldn't sleep. They are acutely aware of their "Fail", shocked at the scoreline and clearly humiliated. Outclassed and outscored. Hope they take their lessons to the next games and give a better showing.
Despite the scoreline today you couldn't fault the effort of the lads. As long as play with pride and to the best of their ability then I'll be proud of them. Looking forward to a 5am start on Monday to watch us take on Italy!
This might be controversial but I can't agree with that. I reckon after the fourth goal a number of our players gave it a miss. I think we saw a pretty token effort from some key players too. Maybe that was the conditions and the circumstances, but I wasn't left with the impression that they had "left everything out there."
I don't think we "wanted it enough" ;-)
Normo's coming home
Like I said it's easy to point the finger and make the connection you guys have made - for me it's disapointing that for guys who know so much about football that your not prepared to give everyone involved the benefit of the doubt.
People in general are untrustworthy. Giving people the benefit of the doubt can either leave you looking rather naive or in certain situations even open to exploitation.
No one at NZF deserves the benefit of the doubt given how shambolic the organization is run.
Three for me, and two for them.
Like I said it's easy to point the finger and make the connection you guys have made - for me it's disapointing that for guys who know so much about football that your not prepared to give everyone involved the benefit of the doubt.
People in general are untrustworthy. Giving people the benefit of the doubt can either leave you looking rather naive or in certain situations even open to exploitation.
No one at NZF deserves the benefit of the doubt given how shambolic the organization is run.
Grumpy old bastard alert
Like I said it's easy to point the finger and make the connection you guys have made - for me it's disapointing that for guys who know so much about football that your not prepared to give everyone involved the benefit of the doubt.
People in general are untrustworthy. Giving people the benefit of the doubt can either leave you looking rather naive or in certain situations even open to exploitation.
No one at NZF deserves the benefit of the doubt given how shambolic the organization is run.
fair enough thing to say when it's not you in the firing line - how many times have you not been given the benefit of the doubt when you should have? easy then to not give others that allowance.
Like I said it's easy to point the finger and make the connection you guys have made - for me it's disapointing that for guys who know so much about football that your not prepared to give everyone involved the benefit of the doubt.
People in general are untrustworthy. Giving people the benefit of the doubt can either leave you looking rather naive or in certain situations even open to exploitation.
No one at NZF deserves the benefit of the doubt given how shambolic the organization is run.
in regards to being there in an official role, i don't know - i missed the start of the game so again don't know.
On a side note you may expect the director of high performance to be at these events anyway, so possibly he is there on business and would be there even if Andre wasn't.
Like I said it's easy to point the finger and make the connection you guys have made - for me it's disapointing that for guys who know so much about football that your not prepared to give everyone involved the benefit of the doubt.
People in general are untrustworthy. Giving people the benefit of the doubt can either leave you looking rather naive or in certain situations even open to exploitation.
No one at NZF deserves the benefit of the doubt given how shambolic the organization is run.
that's a nice posititive outlook on life isn't it.
Is this the team, that is going to represent us at the 2015 U-20 World cup. Come on NZ football this is a joke. They cant pass or defend. They gave the ball away 30 odd times. I cant blame the players, the build up was terrible. The players have never seen S.American football before, what do you expect! U-20 world cup is important for NZ football. Give them some funds!! The last two cycles were better. Uruguay should of won 10-0.
Maybe not, this U17's is made up with players born 96/97 all but 2 are born 96
The previous 17's were made up of 94/95 again only 2 from 95
So hopefully there are some good kids born in 95 to do us proud in 2015
Kinda see how kids can slip through the gaps at younger age groups when the old stronger bigger kids are being picked
Just to prove a point here - Chopah, in your opinion, is there anything that Fred has not done well while he has been at NZF?
Grumpy old bastard alert
Like I said it's easy to point the finger and make the connection you guys have made - for me it's disapointing that for guys who know so much about football that your not prepared to give everyone involved the benefit of the doubt.
People in general are untrustworthy. Giving people the benefit of the doubt can either leave you looking rather naive or in certain situations even open to exploitation.
No one at NZF deserves the benefit of the doubt given how shambolic the organization is run.
in regards to being there in an official role, i don't know - i missed the start of the game so again don't know.
On a side note you may expect the director of high performance to be at these events anyway, so possibly he is there on business and would be there even if Andre wasn't.
Grumpy old bastard alert
Just to prove a point here - Chopah, in your opinion, is there anything that Fred has not done well while he has been at NZF?
i have no idea - look back I never said he was doing a good job I just said i didn't believe it was fair that he was copping all (or most) of the grief - so no sorry can't prove your point today.
And I don't see really what that has to do with the fact that you in particular seem to grab hold of any number of theory's and run with them without anything to substantiate it. Once challenged you do seem to often soften your stance and seem willing to take other opinions on board so i wonder why you seem to jump the gun on these things? just my observation of course.
FYI - that's the 2nd or 3rd time you have basically accused me of defending Fred to the hilt and i'm becoming weary of it.
Like I said it's easy to point the finger and make the connection you guys have made - for me it's disapointing that for guys who know so much about football that your not prepared to give everyone involved the benefit of the doubt.
People in general are untrustworthy. Giving people the benefit of the doubt can either leave you looking rather naive or in certain situations even open to exploitation.
No one at NZF deserves the benefit of the doubt given how shambolic the organization is run.
in regards to being there in an official role, i don't know - i missed the start of the game so again don't know.
On a side note you may expect the director of high performance to be at these events anyway, so possibly he is there on business and would be there even if Andre wasn't.
i don't know - was he in that role at that point? i'm not sure.
Read what i said - i didn't say he was there doing an NZF role, i said i didn't know but i offered the suggestion that people such as yourself may expect the person in his role to be there, i dunno - do you?
Like I said it's easy to point the finger and make the connection you guys have made - for me it's disapointing that for guys who know so much about football that your not prepared to give everyone involved the benefit of the doubt.
People in general are untrustworthy. Giving people the benefit of the doubt can either leave you looking rather naive or in certain situations even open to exploitation.
No one at NZF deserves the benefit of the doubt given how shambolic the organization is run.
that's a nice posititive outlook on life isn't it.
Realistic tbh.
Three for me, and two for them.
Like I said it's easy to point the finger and make the connection you guys have made - for me it's disapointing that for guys who know so much about football that your not prepared to give everyone involved the benefit of the doubt.
People in general are untrustworthy. Giving people the benefit of the doubt can either leave you looking rather naive or in certain situations even open to exploitation.
No one at NZF deserves the benefit of the doubt given how shambolic the organization is run.
that's a nice posititive outlook on life isn't it.
Realistic tbh.
I hope at some point you are able to change your opinion - based on better experiences.
And I don't see really what that has to do with the fact that you in particular seem to grab hold of any number of theory's and run with them without anything to substantiate it. Once challenged you do seem to often soften your stance and seem willing to take other opinions on board so i wonder why you seem to jump the gun on these things? just my observation of course.
FYI - that's the 2nd or 3rd time you have basically accused me of defending Fred to the hilt and i'm becoming weary of it.
Grow weary of it. Whenever Freds name pops up, you pop in and defend him. Say what you like, its on the forums in black and white. This is probably where you will try and tell me once again that your opinion is objective and we are not?
Grumpy old bastard alert
And I don't see really what that has to do with the fact that you in particular seem to grab hold of any number of theory's and run with them without anything to substantiate it. Once challenged you do seem to often soften your stance and seem willing to take other opinions on board so i wonder why you seem to jump the gun on these things? just my observation of course.
FYI - that's the 2nd or 3rd time you have basically accused me of defending Fred to the hilt and i'm becoming weary of it.
Grow weary of it. Whenever Freds name pops up, you pop in and defend him. Say what you like, its on the forums in black and white. This is probably where you will try and tell me once again that your opinion is objective and we are not?
Fred has too go, if we get hammered at the U-17 world cup and the WC play off. Results should be paramount
Like I said it's easy to point the finger and make the connection you guys have made - for me it's disapointing that for guys who know so much about football that your not prepared to give everyone involved the benefit of the doubt.
People in general are untrustworthy. Giving people the benefit of the doubt can either leave you looking rather naive or in certain situations even open to exploitation.
No one at NZF deserves the benefit of the doubt given how shambolic the organization is run.
in regards to being there in an official role, i don't know - i missed the start of the game so again don't know.
On a side note you may expect the director of high performance to be at these events anyway, so possibly he is there on business and would be there even if Andre wasn't.
i don't know - was he in that role at that point? i'm not sure.
Read what i said - i didn't say he was there doing an NZF role, i said i didn't know but i offered the suggestion that people such as yourself may expect the person in his role to be there, i dunno - do you?
This absolutely stinks of a junket cause his kid was there and if he was smart, he would know this considering his role.
Grumpy old bastard alert
And I don't see really what that has to do with the fact that you in particular seem to grab hold of any number of theory's and run with them without anything to substantiate it. Once challenged you do seem to often soften your stance and seem willing to take other opinions on board so i wonder why you seem to jump the gun on these things? just my observation of course.
FYI - that's the 2nd or 3rd time you have basically accused me of defending Fred to the hilt and i'm becoming weary of it.
Grow weary of it. Whenever Freds name pops up, you pop in and defend him. Say what you like, its on the forums in black and white. This is probably where you will try and tell me once again that your opinion is objective and we are not?
i never said you couldn't listen from other people - I thought i said you do and often you do take on board what's being said - what i was trying to say is often you make a negative claim or statement, (realistic maybe a better word actually :-)....) and i wondered why you did that?
I'm not saying that i haven't defended Fred - I am saying most of the time all i am saying is do we really know clusterf**k XXX is all Fred's fault or are we getting carried away with all the angst. And if that's not how it came across, then I apologize but that's how it was meant.
Of course your allowed your opinion, and if your opinion is that there is nepotism in play here then I accept your view - but I don't take that view until I can see some proof or source on the matter.
Like I said it's easy to point the finger and make the connection you guys have made - for me it's disapointing that for guys who know so much about football that your not prepared to give everyone involved the benefit of the doubt.
People in general are untrustworthy. Giving people the benefit of the doubt can either leave you looking rather naive or in certain situations even open to exploitation.
No one at NZF deserves the benefit of the doubt given how shambolic the organization is run.
in regards to being there in an official role, i don't know - i missed the start of the game so again don't know.
On a side note you may expect the director of high performance to be at these events anyway, so possibly he is there on business and would be there even if Andre wasn't.
i don't know - was he in that role at that point? i'm not sure.
Read what i said - i didn't say he was there doing an NZF role, i said i didn't know but i offered the suggestion that people such as yourself may expect the person in his role to be there, i dunno - do you?
This absolutely stinks of a junket cause his kid was there and if he was smart, he would know this considering his role.
i don't actually follow his life as closely as you do obviously..
Again you have jumped to a conclusion because as far as I am aware we are still not sure if he was there in an NZF role.
If he was and i'm willing to take your word that he wasn't at the other ones - yep that's a little off considering the cimcumstances.
Tell you what, go have a chat with Colin Margison. He will tell you that NZF would send away two officials on most trips. Those officials had no business being there in most cases other than a free trip away. Don't take my word for it, go ask your man.
Grumpy old bastard alert
so if that's true your no longer concerned about Fred being there your concerned about frivolous staff members being there at all? isn't that a different issue - one that i agree with by the way.
I'll give you another point of view.
Imagine
your kid is at that tournament, and you've just been through this whole
$2k/$1k crap with NZF. And then you see Fred there in his suit. Whether he is the decision maker or the messenger, again a dumb move.
Grumpy old bastard alert
yeah like i said above if he is there in an official NZF role it doesn't look good - unless like you mentioned they send two people every-time, because now there is precedence so it doesn't look so bad. Still not great by NZF to do that i think.
Just going to say he could be there in a few different personal or Football ways without being there for NZF.
as a parent
as a guest of FIFA (being an ex World Cup ambassador and OFC vice president)
Something to do with the promotion of the U20 World cup in NZ
It does seem odd to have a staff member of NZF introduced to the opposition before the game, so one could suppose he could be there in that role under another guise (if he did this, I have still not seen confirmation of this).
A job for the boys.
If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid
Got a message from one of the players at 3.30am their time - couldn't sleep. They are acutely aware of their "Fail", shocked at the scoreline and clearly humiliated. Outclassed and outscored. Hope they take their lessons to the next games and give a better showing.
Despite the scoreline today you couldn't fault the effort of the lads. As long as play with pride and to the best of their ability then I'll be proud of them. Looking forward to a 5am start on Monday to watch us take on Italy!
This might be controversial but I can't agree with that. I reckon after the fourth goal a number of our players gave it a miss. I think we saw a pretty token effort from some key players too. Maybe that was the conditions and the circumstances, but I wasn't left with the impression that they had "left everything out there."
Can't say I completely agree with you there Smithy. We all know the impact of conditions so I won't even mention those. I think there was a lot of hype around a few players, particularly the new Phoenix boys, and to be fair they probably didn't have the impact or involvement most were hoping for, but to say this was due to lack of effort, well I don't completely agree.
I've mentioned previously that I thought the backline was pretty poor but in my opinion this was due to their own ability and the quality of the Uruguayans, rather than lack of effort. I don't remember the fourth goal, I was pretty damn tired, so can't really comment on that, but watching us being 7-nil down and still flying into tackles and chucking 6 in the box for a corner gave me a bit of hope that we hadn't given up.
Yep fair enough. I'm not saying it's cut/dried. Just saying what my impression was. I have a sneaking suspicion this group thought they were quite good and when reality hit home they didn't really step up.
I'm just watching a replay now, and Rufer is spending a lot of time walking casually around the place. It's only 1-0 at this stage.
But I can totally see where you're coming from too and it is terribly difficult to judge "effort" just by watching the tele.
Yeah I agree with you, I reckon this squad thought they'd pinch a couple of results, and to be honest I thought they'd do a lot better as well.
Yep impressions are individual as are opinions so no love lost. Love a bit of a footy debate though.
I think people don't take into consideration that nepotism can go the other way. For example if you are involved in sport or business, work whatever with someone you are closely related to, you can often get a harder deal. May not be a great example but when my Dad coached me in football I would be on the bench for at least half a game every week. This may have been because the other players were better than me or because the person in charge that I was related to didn't want to be perceived as giving this relative special privileges. It works both ways..
These boys had better man up for the next two games or more than a few will face being discarded for the Under-20 home tournament.
"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...
I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...
Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...
Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."
These boys had better man up for the next two games or more than a few will face being discarded for the Under-20 home tournament.
LOL as if, These guys paid $1000 bucks to get wiped. Same old shit - Cant hold the ball, Cant pass the ball. And what kind of system are they playing? Its not attacking or defending football its just crud.
Mr Positive