All Whites, Ferns, and other international teams

The next All Whites coach

1207 replies · 212,695 views
17 Nov 09:18
Prickly Thistle wrote:
Prickly Thistle wrote:

Sorry just spent 30 minutes reading this forum. Wow! Obviously all football people or you would not bother. Having said that why would you give our anti- football media even more fodder to work with.

Most of those pricks sit there sharpening their rugby funded pencils waiting to launch into any sport that threatens the Rugby profile. Similarly those on Radio.

So we lost 5 - 1 against Mexico. Germany lost 5 - 1 against England a few years ago. 5 or 6 goal results happen in the Premier League and all major leagues. These guys a rightly ranked 50 places ahead of us.

Our reaction "Lynch the Coach" "Castrate the players."

Christie a fabulous young man who led us to our first ever Junior World Cup result against Poland, along with Vicilich who at 37 still gets out there in NZ's top club team. Our right back, Tony Lockhead, a fantastic servant of our club and country as is Leo. None had a good game let alone a great one in Mexico, but when called they were there battling. None did not believe it was possible to get a result, they all wanted it and their coach obviously believed in them. 

Can you not remember the immediate positive reaction to Ricki getting involved with the Knights. A Kiwi actually stepping up and taking on a role so many had failed in. Hey! Made in New Zealand on his backside.He also took on the All Whites. He got some positive results. TS and whoever in Wellington saw him as the guy to start the Phoenix and he did so. Not always winning but always there, and at times bloody exciting. We loved them in Christchurch.

Then he delivered us The All Whites, now lets get serious UNDEFEATED at a World Cup. "Nuts" to your one off upsets, Herbet pulled off three on the trot on the worlds biggest sporting stage. That was after outfoxing Bahrain to get there. have you forgotten that night.

To do all this he sold himself to football, moved from Auckland to Wellington with his family. Went overseas on numerous occasions to get the best possible advise and qualifications, chased every possible player with a Kiwi connection.                                                        He has since set a record of results in World Football, using players, the majority of whom struggle to make a decent living out of the game, unprecedented in NZ Football or anywhere in the world.

The timing, having Lord Nelsen ( I live in Christchurch) along with a couple of big kids (panel beaters) with potential, one other football brain (Simon) some really mediocre ( sorry lads !) lower division players and a GK on speed, all determined to be absolute heroes was incredible. He did (just like Adsie and Fallon before him) have to select them. He did (incredibly) devise a plan that worked. No other team in Sth Africa lined up in such an innovative way. Those players got us there. Those players still playing, put their hands up again to play Mexico. He picked them again.

This time they failed (in Mexico), no Nelsen, no Elliott, no Reid, what did you expect. We had our miracle in 2010, not saying we wont get another one (we also had one in 1982). Naïve to think others could step in to replace them, probably, used two players to replace Ryan. Who else would you have picked? Every coach has put their faith in those that have done it before, sometimes it works.

I would suggest he put his trust in some players who have served him superbly in the past. He was not rewarded this time. Who would you have seriously looked to in order to bring on another miracle. Our most talented kid had one good turn and tripped into trouble. neither he nor any of them are world class. Even Nelsen only had a world class brain. 

This was Mexico, a result important to us but essential for them. Two hundred players with more ability than ours to pick from. Sure we could have picked kids and sent them out to play. We did it a few weeks ago against Uruguay. 5 -1 it would have been 10 -1 against Mexico if we had gone out the same way, and we would now hear calls of naïve, too young and under prepared 

Where to from here. Stop all the crap and ask Ricki Herbert for his assessment of what should happen, along with Brian turner they can give us the best informed plan. Then we start again, get into the confederations, get some game time and lets move on.

Unless!!!! Did not we put 4 past Mexico in 1981.

Good Luck on Wednesday Ricki and The All Whites.       

for confederations read Confederations Cup

Why didn't you start your post off - A long time ago in a galaxy far far away....... FFS just admit the obvious, it's Ricki's time to go. 9 years is too long for anyone to be that much power. 
No-one's saying he hasn't achieved things, but unfortunately his rule has come to an end! 
You can try to justify his selections for the Mexico game but you can't!  Christie is now 30, because he led the NZ U17s to a result against Poland at an U17s World Cup, you think, that justifies his selection. He probably is a fabulous young man, that doesn't mean we pick him to play and START in a WC qualifier especially when he hasn't been playing for a couple of years. Give me the name of any National Coach who has ever selected a player who has not had a club for 2 years, to play in a WC Qualifier.
Why the hell would we want to ask RH and BT for the best informed plan - funny you mention the GK on speed - sounds like he's not the only one on it.
Permalink
17 Nov 10:04

Herbert's strength as a coach was his ability to motivate players, to make them want to put 110% in, play as a team, etc, as opposed to being a great technical mind. He used to play simple football but got better results than expected due to players playing with guts and passion in his teams, and trusting in him and his vision. At some point (and I'm talking about the Phoenix here too as we'll as the All Whites) his players seemed to lose trust and faith in him, they stopped playing with so much passion In his teams.

I don't know if this was because of personality problems with him or it clicked to his players he really wasn't that technically good, but either way once this faith and desire to play for him, and trust in him was gone then he no longer offers any value. I think this is inevitable somewhat after 9 years in charge for a coach who relies on firing players up rather than being technically great.

As a fan he has became less likeable, more stubborn and arrogant over the years.

Thanks for the hard work Rickie but it is time to go.

Permalink
17 Nov 10:19



Some members of the All Whites didn't even have a club and were also lacking fitness to participate in the biggest tournament in the world SO why were these players selected ...............????

 There are a good number of  New Zealanders who are playing in different places on the planet of football who are  fit, able, conditioned and climatised  to be at least looked at for inclusion into the NZ National Team. This selection needs to be carried out by an un-biased and professional panel. 

    For the sake of football in this country let's ask some questions and get them answered????

Permalink
17 Nov 10:33

Ricki has had some rough breaks, but really has reached a point - gone completely passed it- as a coach where he needed to continue to evolve and move on to a better position. 

I think he was unfortunate having to deal with an owner like Gareth Morgan who undermined him as a coach last year and for some reason was asked to give his opinion about NZ football here. 

The elation of 2010 has been left behind. I still sincerely believe that a leadership team of Ricki and Reid could do the job for our national team- you think things can't get any worse? If we wanted to play football we should have tried to get Ange, otherwise let's play more games and let us have a good, but economically priced coach. 

As with the Phoenix I don't want him gone, unless we are going to something better. With the Phoenix we had more options. Here we don't have many options at all...

It was a tough game and he made a couple of bad calls, but what if Siggie was on and had picked up two yellows? Or they had run rings around Ivan in the midfield? 

Looking forward to the next game...



Permalink
17 Nov 10:35

All sorts of new and returning posters coming out to stick the knife in during this past week.


Allegedly

Permalink
17 Nov 10:37 · edited 17 Nov 10:42 · History
Not shocked are you Tegal.  It's NZ Football culture.  When it's positive you don't hear from the whiners but the moment there is a chance to put the boot all of a sudden they are vocal.

Limey wrote:

Some members of the All Whites didn't even have a club and were also lacking fitness to participate in the biggest tournament in the world SO why were these players selected ...............????



One of those players was one of the few to have no significant errors against their names.

How's my driving? - Whine here

Permalink
17 Nov 10:42
Prickly Thistle wrote:

Sorry just spent 30 minutes reading this forum. Wow! Obviously all football people or you would not bother. Having said that why would you give our anti- football media even more fodder to work with.

Most of those pricks sit there sharpening their rugby funded pencils waiting to launch into any sport that threatens the Rugby profile. Similarly those on Radio.

So we lost 5 - 1 against Mexico. Germany lost 5 - 1 against England a few years ago. 5 or 6 goal results happen in the Premier League and all major leagues. These guys a rightly ranked 50 places ahead of us.

Our reaction "Lynch the Coach" "Castrate the players."

Christie a fabulous young man who led us to our first ever Junior World Cup result against Poland, along with Vicilich who at 37 still gets out there in NZ's top club team. Our right back, Tony Lockhead, a fantastic servant of our club and country as is Leo. None had a good game let alone a great one in Mexico, but when called they were there battling. None did not believe it was possible to get a result, they all wanted it and their coach obviously believed in them. 

Can you not remember the immediate positive reaction to Ricki getting involved with the Knights. A Kiwi actually stepping up and taking on a role so many had failed in. Hey! Made in New Zealand on his backside.He also took on the All Whites. He got some positive results. TS and whoever in Wellington saw him as the guy to start the Phoenix and he did so. Not always winning but always there, and at times bloody exciting. We loved them in Christchurch.

Then he delivered us The All Whites, now lets get serious UNDEFEATED at a World Cup. "Nuts" to your one off upsets, Herbet pulled off three on the trot on the worlds biggest sporting stage. That was after outfoxing Bahrain to get there. have you forgotten that night.

To do all this he sold himself to football, moved from Auckland to Wellington with his family. Went overseas on numerous occasions to get the best possible advise and qualifications, chased every possible player with a Kiwi connection.                                                        He has since set a record of results in World Football, using players, the majority of whom struggle to make a decent living out of the game, unprecedented in NZ Football or anywhere in the world.

The timing, having Lord Nelsen ( I live in Christchurch) along with a couple of big kids (panel beaters) with potential, one other football brain (Simon) some really mediocre ( sorry lads !) lower division players and a GK on speed, all determined to be absolute heroes was incredible. He did (just like Adsie and Fallon before him) have to select them. He did (incredibly) devise a plan that worked. No other team in Sth Africa lined up in such an innovative way. Those players got us there. Those players still playing, put their hands up again to play Mexico. He picked them again.

This time they failed (in Mexico), no Nelsen, no Elliott, no Reid, what did you expect. We had our miracle in 2010, not saying we wont get another one (we also had one in 1982). Naïve to think others could step in to replace them, probably, used two players to replace Ryan. Who else would you have picked? Every coach has put their faith in those that have done it before, sometimes it works.

I would suggest he put his trust in some players who have served him superbly in the past. He was not rewarded this time. Who would you have seriously looked to in order to bring on another miracle. Our most talented kid had one good turn and tripped into trouble. neither he nor any of them are world class. Even Nelsen only had a world class brain. 

This was Mexico, a result important to us but essential for them. Two hundred players with more ability than ours to pick from. Sure we could have picked kids and sent them out to play. We did it a few weeks ago against Uruguay. 5 -1 it would have been 10 -1 against Mexico if we had gone out the same way, and we would now hear calls of naïve, too young and under prepared 

Where to from here. Stop all the crap and ask Ricki Herbert for his assessment of what should happen, along with Brian turner they can give us the best informed plan. Then we start again, get into the confederations, get some game time and lets move on.

Unless!!!! Did not we put 4 past Mexico in 1981.

Good Luck on Wednesday Ricki and The All Whites.       


As uninspiring as Herbert's tactics last Wednesday

Normo's coming home

Permalink
17 Nov 10:54
Hard News wrote:
Not shocked are you Tegal.  It's NZ Football culture.  When it's positive you don't hear from the whiners but the moment there is a chance to put the boot all of a sudden they are vocal.

Limey wrote:

Some members of the All Whites didn't even have a club and were also lacking fitness to participate in the biggest tournament in the world SO why were these players selected ...............????



One of those players was one of the few to have no significant errors against their names.

You are talking about Christie right HN? Cos Ivan, Smith and Durante need some walkie talkies out there to know where each other are and what they're doing...
actually on the Mexican theory it probably would have been a good idea to start Siggie and Dura as a combination who knows each others play really well...


Permalink
17 Nov 11:13
martinb wrote:
Hard News wrote:
Not shocked are you Tegal.  It's NZ Football culture.  When it's positive you don't hear from the whiners but the moment there is a chance to put the boot all of a sudden they are vocal.

Limey wrote:

Some members of the All Whites didn't even have a club and were also lacking fitness to participate in the biggest tournament in the world SO why were these players selected ...............????



One of those players was one of the few to have no significant errors against their names.


You are talking about Christie right HN? Cos Ivan, Smith and Durante need some walkie talkies out there to know where each other are and what they're doing...

actually on the Mexican theory it probably would have been a good idea to start Siggie and Dura as a combination who knows each others play really well...


He is talking about Tony.
Permalink
17 Nov 11:21
siac wrote:
martinb wrote:
Hard News wrote:
Not shocked are you Tegal.  It's NZ Football culture.  When it's positive you don't hear from the whiners but the moment there is a chance to put the boot all of a sudden they are vocal.
Limey wrote:
Some members of the All Whites didn't even have a club and were also lacking fitness to participate in the biggest tournament in the world SO why were these players selected ...............????
One of those players was one of the few to have no significant errors against their names.
You are talking about Christie right HN? Cos Ivan, Smith and Durante need some walkie talkies out there to know where each other are and what they're doing… actually on the Mexican theory it probably would have been a good idea to start Siggie and Dura as a combination who knows each others play really well...
He is talking about Tony.
I guess his 'moment' in the penalty area doesn't really count. All's well that ends well.
Permalink
17 Nov 11:28
james dean wrote:
Prickly Thistle wrote:

Sorry just spent 30 minutes reading this forum. Wow! Obviously all football people or you would not bother. Having said that why would you give our anti- football media even more fodder to work with.

Most of those pricks sit there sharpening their rugby funded pencils waiting to launch into any sport that threatens the Rugby profile. Similarly those on Radio.

So we lost 5 - 1 against Mexico. Germany lost 5 - 1 against England a few years ago. 5 or 6 goal results happen in the Premier League and all major leagues. These guys a rightly ranked 50 places ahead of us.

Our reaction "Lynch the Coach" "Castrate the players."

Christie a fabulous young man who led us to our first ever Junior World Cup result against Poland, along with Vicilich who at 37 still gets out there in NZ's top club team. Our right back, Tony Lockhead, a fantastic servant of our club and country as is Leo. None had a good game let alone a great one in Mexico, but when called they were there battling. None did not believe it was possible to get a result, they all wanted it and their coach obviously believed in them. 

Can you not remember the immediate positive reaction to Ricki getting involved with the Knights. A Kiwi actually stepping up and taking on a role so many had failed in. Hey! Made in New Zealand on his backside.He also took on the All Whites. He got some positive results. TS and whoever in Wellington saw him as the guy to start the Phoenix and he did so. Not always winning but always there, and at times bloody exciting. We loved them in Christchurch.

Then he delivered us The All Whites, now lets get serious UNDEFEATED at a World Cup. "Nuts" to your one off upsets, Herbet pulled off three on the trot on the worlds biggest sporting stage. That was after outfoxing Bahrain to get there. have you forgotten that night.

To do all this he sold himself to football, moved from Auckland to Wellington with his family. Went overseas on numerous occasions to get the best possible advise and qualifications, chased every possible player with a Kiwi connection.                                                        He has since set a record of results in World Football, using players, the majority of whom struggle to make a decent living out of the game, unprecedented in NZ Football or anywhere in the world.

The timing, having Lord Nelsen ( I live in Christchurch) along with a couple of big kids (panel beaters) with potential, one other football brain (Simon) some really mediocre ( sorry lads !) lower division players and a GK on speed, all determined to be absolute heroes was incredible. He did (just like Adsie and Fallon before him) have to select them. He did (incredibly) devise a plan that worked. No other team in Sth Africa lined up in such an innovative way. Those players got us there. Those players still playing, put their hands up again to play Mexico. He picked them again.

This time they failed (in Mexico), no Nelsen, no Elliott, no Reid, what did you expect. We had our miracle in 2010, not saying we wont get another one (we also had one in 1982). Naïve to think others could step in to replace them, probably, used two players to replace Ryan. Who else would you have picked? Every coach has put their faith in those that have done it before, sometimes it works.

I would suggest he put his trust in some players who have served him superbly in the past. He was not rewarded this time. Who would you have seriously looked to in order to bring on another miracle. Our most talented kid had one good turn and tripped into trouble. neither he nor any of them are world class. Even Nelsen only had a world class brain. 

This was Mexico, a result important to us but essential for them. Two hundred players with more ability than ours to pick from. Sure we could have picked kids and sent them out to play. We did it a few weeks ago against Uruguay. 5 -1 it would have been 10 -1 against Mexico if we had gone out the same way, and we would now hear calls of naïve, too young and under prepared 

Where to from here. Stop all the crap and ask Ricki Herbert for his assessment of what should happen, along with Brian turner they can give us the best informed plan. Then we start again, get into the confederations, get some game time and lets move on.

Unless!!!! Did not we put 4 past Mexico in 1981.

Good Luck on Wednesday Ricki and The All Whites.       


As uninspiring as Herbert's tactics last Wednesday



I thought it was well said. Like him or not Ricki was at the forefront of what amounts to a football revolution in NZ. We had the boom times, now, as always happens, it's time for the bust. And the tears and tantrums are coming thick and fast.
Permalink
17 Nov 11:59

I shall be chanting "Ricki Herberts, All White Army" on wednesday night.

Feel free to join in!


Thank you

We're the WELLINGTON Phoenix

And this is our Home

Permalink
17 Nov 12:38

Not even slightly surprised HN. 


Allegedly

Permalink
17 Nov 12:41
martinb wrote:
One of those players was one of the few to have no significant errors against their names.
[/quote]


You are talking about Christie right HN? Cos Ivan, Smith and Durante need some walkie talkies out there to know where each other are and what they're doing...

actually on the Mexican theory it probably would have been a good idea to start Siggie and Dura as a combination who knows each others play really well...



I meant Lochy.  The point was players who are 'unattached'.

How's my driving? - Whine here

Permalink
17 Nov 17:19
Kiwi Hatter wrote:

I shall be chanting "Ricki Herberts, All White Army" on wednesday night.

Feel free to join in!


Thank you


Would it not be better to go with "We are New Zealand's All White Army"?  That way both the general public and the small deluded few who still support Herbert can join in.

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

Permalink
17 Nov 17:36
Frankie Mac wrote:
Kiwi Hatter wrote:

I shall be chanting "Ricki Herberts, All White Army" on wednesday night.

Feel free to join in!


Thank you


Would it not be better to go with "We are New Zealand's All White Army"?  That way both the general public and the small deluded few who still support Herbert can join in.



Didn't know you are a Hold Steady fan frankie?

Permalink
17 Nov 17:56
ForteanTimes wrote:
Frankie Mac wrote:
Kiwi Hatter wrote:

I shall be chanting "Ricki Herberts, All White Army" on wednesday night.

Feel free to join in!


Thank you


Would it not be better to go with "We are New Zealand's All White Army"?  That way both the general public and the small deluded few who still support Herbert can join in.



Didn't know you are a Hold Steady fan frankie?
I think the lyrics to "stay positive" would be a more appropriate signature at the moment...

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

Permalink
17 Nov 23:45 · edited 18 Nov 00:27 · History
UK_ALLWHITE wrote:

How would people feel about a foreign coach? Not sure how much Ricki gets paid each year (probably not a lot) but to move forward searching for someone from Europe would be a positive approach. There is some good coaches coming through in NZ but with a good group of young players coming through now we need someone to mould them into an exciting attacking side. 

Oz have had mixed success opting for foreign coaches over the years, and I'm not saying we should copy them, just keep our options open. 

A young coach, who has worked under an experienced manager in Europe for a bit. 

I see Middlesbrough FC appointed Jose Mourinho's old number two at Real Madrid as their new manager yesterday (Karanka?) 



A decent experienced overseas coach would be unaffordable to the All Whites. 


They may find a younger, less proven but competent coach, but that will be hard for the relatively small salary involved and the lack of regular matches or prestige attached.


NZ$ 500,000 is the kind of starting figure for a half-decent overseas coach for the All Whites. Consider that around NZ$337,000 is believed to be the minimum salary for A-League coaches, while new Socceroos coach Ange Postecoglou was on NZ$674,000 at the Melbourne Victory:

 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/soccer-football/news/article.cfm?c_id=86&objectid=11158421


In 2005 English Championship basic coaching salaries ranged from £95,000 to £450,000 per year, with a "typical" mid-range salary of £200,000 plus bonuses. In League One, the spread was £55,000 to £200,000, with the mid-range salary at £80,000 plus bonuses:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/revealed-the-princes-and-paupers-of-the-dugout-6149966.html


Consider that a country with a similar population to ours and a relatively weak domestic league, the Republic of Ireland, paid manager Trapattoni c. NZ$ 3 million per annum. England manager Roy Hodgson is on NZ$ 6 million. The lowest-paid Premier League managers earn c. NZ$ 1 million.

Big Pete 65, Christchurch

Permalink
18 Nov 00:10
Bluemagic wrote:
Jeff Vader wrote:
Wibblebutt wrote:

Tony Popovic

In a lot of respects, this could be viewed as a very good or bad idea for Poppa but I think this is a brilliant idea Wibblebutt. I had thought of it earlier in the back of my mind but you got in well first.

1: He got overlooked for the shockeroos cause he is still green and I think even he could not argue with that too much especially whom he was up against in Ange and Arnold who have earned the right.
2: He would inherit a young AW side, a few of which he would have seen in the A League and it would pretty much be a blank canvas for him to mold.
3: He gets into international football with a team not far from home and he wont have to give up his WSW gig nor will it really eat up his time for an extra $75k (at a guess). Thats not bad from a cost perspective for NZF. I'll also add that if they work it in with the WSW properly, its effectively a pay rise that NZF are paying for so from a WSW perspective, if it keeps him around, thats great for them.
4: It gets him in the shop window to show the FFA what he can do. He is locked out for at least 2 years with ange being there so why not?
5: From an NZ point of view, he can coach and he has shown what he can do. Being based out of Sydney, its not an expensive trip to get him over.
6: It also gives NZF another voice when it comes to FIFA windows and getting them off.

The only downside is that it could kill his stocks with the FFA if the AWs tank but he is young enough at 41 (?) that in 10 years time, if it goes tits up, no one will remember.

I think this is a great idea Wibblebutt.

I agree JV (huge round of cheers) but unfortunately I think there's little prospect of Popovic taking the AWs job. I don't think West Sydney would share him, it's a vibrant club where he's well looked after. He's also just finding his feet as an A League club manager. His name came up for the vacant Crystal Palace job and he didn't go for that.

The more I think about it the more I think Ramon Tribulietx would be a good candidate for the AWs job, if given a free hand from the old guard. However I don't want to lose him from ACFC as his possession-based attacking style is starting to come to fruition. Would he want to give up the annual Club World Cup adventure for a part-time international coaching role? It would certainly be a refreshing continental change of style from the dour Herbert years and he does know NZ football. However if Herbert moves upstairs then it's not going to matter, because nothing is really going to change. It's either a completely fresh break or more of the same.


Added to Popovic's case is that he has WSW playing a style of football that I think could well suit the AWs. ie counter-attack coupled with a solid base and some good possession based stuff in the mids.

On Tribulietx - is there a reason why he couldn't coach ACFC and NZ at the same time? I mean both jobs aren't exactly full time positions.



Permalink
18 Nov 00:15
Wibblebutt wrote:
Bluemagic wrote:
Jeff Vader wrote:
Wibblebutt wrote:

Tony Popovic

In a lot of respects, this could be viewed as a very good or bad idea for Poppa but I think this is a brilliant idea Wibblebutt. I had thought of it earlier in the back of my mind but you got in well first.

1: He got overlooked for the shockeroos cause he is still green and I think even he could not argue with that too much especially whom he was up against in Ange and Arnold who have earned the right.
2: He would inherit a young AW side, a few of which he would have seen in the A League and it would pretty much be a blank canvas for him to mold.
3: He gets into international football with a team not far from home and he wont have to give up his WSW gig nor will it really eat up his time for an extra $75k (at a guess). Thats not bad from a cost perspective for NZF. I'll also add that if they work it in with the WSW properly, its effectively a pay rise that NZF are paying for so from a WSW perspective, if it keeps him around, thats great for them.
4: It gets him in the shop window to show the FFA what he can do. He is locked out for at least 2 years with ange being there so why not?
5: From an NZ point of view, he can coach and he has shown what he can do. Being based out of Sydney, its not an expensive trip to get him over.
6: It also gives NZF another voice when it comes to FIFA windows and getting them off.

The only downside is that it could kill his stocks with the FFA if the AWs tank but he is young enough at 41 (?) that in 10 years time, if it goes tits up, no one will remember.

I think this is a great idea Wibblebutt.

I agree JV (huge round of cheers) but unfortunately I think there's little prospect of Popovic taking the AWs job. I don't think West Sydney would share him, it's a vibrant club where he's well looked after. He's also just finding his feet as an A League club manager. His name came up for the vacant Crystal Palace job and he didn't go for that.

The more I think about it the more I think Ramon Tribulietx would be a good candidate for the AWs job, if given a free hand from the old guard. However I don't want to lose him from ACFC as his possession-based attacking style is starting to come to fruition. Would he want to give up the annual Club World Cup adventure for a part-time international coaching role? It would certainly be a refreshing continental change of style from the dour Herbert years and he does know NZ football. However if Herbert moves upstairs then it's not going to matter, because nothing is really going to change. It's either a completely fresh break or more of the same.


Added to Popovic's case is that he has WSW playing a style of football that I think could well suit the AWs. ie counter-attack coupled with a solid base and some good possession based stuff in the mids.


On Tribulietx - is there a reason why he couldn't coach ACFC and NZ at the same time? I mean both jobs aren't exactly full time positions.

would have worked this time round - ACFC are deep in training and prep for the World Club Cup in 2 weeks time.

"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...

I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...

Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...

Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."

Permalink
18 Nov 00:16

Edit - 'WOULDN'T' for 'would.

"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...

I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...

Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...

Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."

Permalink
18 Nov 00:17
Wibblebutt wrote:

On Tribulietx - is there a reason why he couldn't coach ACFC and NZ at the same time? I mean both jobs aren't exactly full time positions.

I don't think so. In fact it may even be beneficial because he gets to see plenty of players coming through the system in a way NZ coaches probably don't normally do so. Only minor issue would be it could potentially attract more of the best players to ACFC, however in reality this is probably already happening.
Permalink
18 Nov 00:21

I have sat on this idea of Ramon as the coach because I am not exactly sure where I sit on the idea.

Tactically, he is one of the smartest in the country so there is no denying that we would probably do some things better off the bat especially in terms of analysing opponents and shutting them down.

Against Ramon, is that his style of football needs to time to bed in. He doesn't have that luxury of time with the national side. He gets them for about 2-3 training sessions prior to the KO. That's no way to bed in a possession based style specific to what Ramon does at ACFC.

I would also like to think, and I mean this with respect to Ramon as well, if he was really that good, what's he doing in this country?

 

I would like to see him bought into the environment but not sure where I sit on him as HC. Maybe some one else will have a better argument that will persuade me either way. I believe he did analysis for one of Milicich's U20s side?

Grumpy old bastard alert

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18 Nov 00:41
Napier Phoenix wrote:


Frank VH seems to think its time for Herbert to go. see here

Yeah, some good comments from Frank there and hints that he's not happy with Herbert's performance but lets hope that his comparison to performance reviews of the All Blacks after their numerous Rugby World Cup failures doesn't mean we're in for a re-appointment of Ricki a la Graham Henry surviving RWC 2007:
Van Hattum: "But the likely scenario for New Zealand is to go out and see what's out there, ask those questions and there's likely to be quite some interest. If Ricki wants to apply for the job, he's entitled to, as will anyone else be. This campaign hasn't worked as well as we would have expected and that will come into play. But the coaching staff have got a job to do and that's to reclaim some pride and dignity and get a result on Wednesday." Van Hattum promised a thorough review of the World Cup qualifiers, and the preparation leading into them.

He welcomed the heavy criticism from fans and media, saying it was healthy and indicated significant interest in the All Whites.

Van Hattum likened it to the post-mortems after the All Blacks' World Cup collapses before 2011...

"The All Blacks have done it many times when they've come back from failed World Cup campaigns and have got better for it. We'll follow the same process, get whatever help we need and start a new plan." Like the rest of New Zealand, van Hattum - a former All Whites goalkeeper - watched in horror as Herbert's side failed to perform defensively in Mexico City.

"The coaching staff have to be accountable for that. It's just not like a New Zealand team, it's not in our DNA to be poor at set pieces, it's one of our strengths. Some of the best players in the world have meltdowns and if it happens at the wrong time it gets messy."

Big Pete 65, Christchurch

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18 Nov 02:17
Jeff Vader wrote:

I have sat on this idea of Ramon as the coach because I am not exactly sure where I sit on the idea.

Tactically, he is one of the smartest in the country so there is no denying that we would probably do some things better off the bat especially in terms of analysing opponents and shutting them down.

Against Ramon, is that his style of football needs to time to bed in. He doesn't have that luxury of time with the national side. He gets them for about 2-3 training sessions prior to the KO. That's no way to bed in a possession based style specific to what Ramon does at ACFC.

I would also like to think, and I mean this with respect to Ramon as well, if he was really that good, what's he doing in this country?

 

I would like to see him bought into the environment but not sure where I sit on him as HC. Maybe some one else will have a better argument that will persuade me either way. I believe he did analysis for one of Milicich's U20s side?

I believe Ernie made him an offer after the Nix loss to ACFC. Ramon declined.

"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...

I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...

Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...

Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."

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18 Nov 02:36

Joining the Phoenix and joining the AWs are not the same.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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18 Nov 03:22
Jeff Vader wrote:

Joining the Phoenix and joining the AWs are not the same.


Same level. But less pressure on All Whites.
I like tautologies because I like them.
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18 Nov 05:13

Ernie Merrick?

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18 Nov 05:45

I'd really rather not have the same coach for club and country again. I would suspect the phoenix owners would feel the same.

"Yellow Fever are fantastic – I have to say that"

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18 Nov 05:46
Jeff Vader wrote:

I have sat on this idea of Ramon as the coach because I am not exactly sure where I sit on the idea.

Tactically, he is one of the smartest in the country so there is no denying that we would probably do some things better off the bat especially in terms of analysing opponents and shutting them down.

Against Ramon, is that his style of football needs to time to bed in. He doesn't have that luxury of time with the national side. He gets them for about 2-3 training sessions prior to the KO. That's no way to bed in a possession based style specific to what Ramon does at ACFC.

I would also like to think, and I mean this with respect to Ramon as well, if he was really that good, what's he doing in this country?

 

I would like to see him bought into the environment but not sure where I sit on him as HC. Maybe some one else will have a better argument that will persuade me either way. I believe he did analysis for one of Milicich's U20s side?


Yeah! its an interesting question about Ramon. It seems like a good idea and I'm sure the younger player brigade would welcome it. He would offer a different style. But like you I am not sure. I don't think NZF would ever consider it though. Its way to left field for such a conservative body.

There is a possibility that Ramon would struggle to implement his style in such a short period before internationals.But you could argue that the new breed of kiwi youngsters playing at Stuttgart, Marseille, Zwolle, CCM, Victory etc are actually MORE familiar with Ramons style from the way their clubs play than the style played under Ricki. 


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18 Nov 07:05
Nick M wrote:

Ernie Merrick?

and still keep Nix job..deja vu with benefits

A small town in Europe........looking to bounce straight back up....well that aint going to happen

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18 Nov 07:29 · edited 18 Nov 07:32 · History

Quote from Boro4eva   ( re: A clean sweep )


Exactly what is needed .................... because lets face it, football is a marathon and not a sprint. It seems as though the present NZF establishment need to get out from behind their desks and look at the new generation of footballers that could form a team to put on a display that would be more worthy than we have recently seen. This needs the establishment to take of the blinkers.

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18 Nov 07:34

Austin - sorry I can't quote on the iPhone app but agree that the younger players will GET Ramon's style of play because that is exactly the game they are playing with their clubs.
Given financial limitations he would be a good choice for that reason AND be able to scout young domestic up and comers as well.
I'm yet to read a good argument against him.

Kotahitanga. We are one.

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18 Nov 07:48
Limey wrote:

Quote from Boro4eva   ( re: A clean sweep )


Exactly what is needed .................... because lets face it, football is a marathon and not a sprint. It seems as though the present NZF establishment need to get out from behind their desks and look at the new generation of footballers that could form a team to put on a display that would be more worthy than we have recently seen. This needs the establishment to take of the blinkers.



You are right of course but the NZF has been like this for more than 30 years. Nothing is going to change.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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18 Nov 08:33
siac wrote:

Herbert's strength as a coach was his ability to motivate players, to make them want to put 110% in, play as a team, etc, as opposed to being a great technical mind. He used to play simple football but got better results than expected due to players playing with guts and passion in his teams, and trusting in him and his vision. At some point (and I'm talking about the Phoenix here too as we'll as the All Whites) his players seemed to lose trust and faith in him, they stopped playing with so much passion In his teams.

I don't know if this was because of personality problems with him or it clicked to his players he really wasn't that technically good, but either way once this faith and desire to play for him, and trust in him was gone then he no longer offers any value. I think this is inevitable somewhat after 9 years in charge for a coach who relies on firing players up rather than being technically great.

As a fan he has became less likeable, more stubborn and arrogant over the years.

Thanks for the hard work Rickie but it is time to go.

 

Good summary I think

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18 Nov 14:25

TV 3 NEWS REVEALS NEW ALL WHITES COACH:


Did we miss something? Surely not someone even less inspiring than Ricki....Hansen must be the least charismatic or articulate coach in world sport....

Big Pete 65, Christchurch

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19 Nov 00:28

With this new coach thing, is NZ at a "Ange Posticoglu" moment?  Australia has chosen an exciting coach who champions the "modern" style of football. We have someone in NZ, Ramon Tribulitx, who is stylistically in the Ange camp...though far less experianced and successful. There is a huge excitement in Ange's appointment in Australia. They think he will do the  job of managing the transition from an older squad that is past its useby date into something more successful and exciting. 


Ditto the situation in NZ. We have a group of guys who are finishing their careers and a bunch of exciting young talent coming through. I think that that the whole NZ football scene needs a breath of fresh air and I'm starting to think that a relative outsider like Ramon could well be the guy to take our talented youngsters through to the next phase.


His selection as coach would be bold, innovative and exciting......not words that readily come to mind when you think of NZF.

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19 Nov 00:29

what about that genius from dunedin mike fridge for coach


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19 Nov 00:31

no mate. tarred with the same brush. why would we want that. get someone fresh that carries no baggage with him

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