ASBP 2014/2015

rhetorical question?

Is it meaningful games that Phoenix young players are lacking, or specialist youth coaching?

I would think it is both. A problem with having young players who get very little, if any, time in  A-League games is that they don't get consistent game time at anything higher than the winter league they end up in during the off-season. Unless they end up in Victoria or NSW they are taking a bigger step down than being able to move between ASBP and A-League as needed. As for the coaching, we have never really developed a player have we? Kosta didn't get to play, and Marco was already good and probably improved more in Melbourne than he did here.

Why are reserves at English premiership clubs able to keep their squad fit and ready to play without a reserve league but the Phoenix need their players to play in one?

Given the reduced squad sizes now, and the number of games English teams play, fringe players can still get a game. Besides, while the reserve league is gone, the U21 leagues allows three overage outfield players and one overage goalkeeper on each teamsheet. They do still get chances to play actual games.

Question: why do the Phoenix even need to develop young players?  We have 8 franchises and numerous private academies plus national teams and fed talent development all focussed on producing young players for pro football.  And only one professional team - can't the Phoenix just cherry pick the best talent developed elsewhere, why do they actually have to develop their own young players?

They could, but I see a few benefits to the Nix developing players. For starters, they can pay players a proper professional wage, so they can commit themselves fully to their football (I know plenty of ASBP players can earn decent wages through various means, but how many are earning as much as the base A-League contract, especially the young ones?), while I assume the Nix train more than the "amateur" teams. There is also something to be gained for the club in having the coaching staff really know a player and be able to develop and train him with the team's system in mind. It definitely makes more sense than having to chuck an injury replacement player on the field when he has only been with the team for a week and the coach may have never worked with him before. Also, the fitness of a player who has had a full preseason with a professional team and has kept that fitness up through competitive matches at a lower level is going to be better able to come into the first team and avoid injury (see Riera). Finally, young players are going to learn more from a Paul Ifill than from an Aaron Clapham.

Are the Phoenix going to be better at developing players than any other ASBP franchise?  No evidence so far

I agree with you here, but the club is trying to move in the right direction with this stuff IMO. For six years it was Ricki being very cautious with young players, and the obvious difference between the Nix and the A-League clubs that have brought young players through is that the Nix don't have a youth team.

Were the Phoenix hamstrung this year by reserve players not having played NZFC games, or their reserve players just being shit?

Probably both, but can we expect the shit players to get any better from training alone?

Well, when the young players the club has are fringe players then the needs are the same. I think we may be considering different things when talking about developing young players. I am thinking more of the young players we have had in the past who didn't get much chance to play and get the match experience to add to what they were learning on the training ground. Playing matches should help them improve and push their case for inclusion in the first team. The club probably doesn't need to have an academy of its own given the presence of Ole and the like, but the players cherry picked from those places and ASBP clubs still need to play to implement what they learn in training and keep their match fitness so that they can make a better go of their opportunities in the first team. Unless of course you think that we should only take those players if they can fit into the starting XI (or onto the bench) right away, but then I think we would miss out on players for whom a season or two of being a full-time pro would let them bridge the gap between the two leagues when they might otherwise stagnate.

I suspect some (read ACFC) ASB clubs are thoroughly looking forward to playing the Nix on a regular & competitive basis, even if it's the Nix 2nd team. Could get spicy.

boring, predictable.. yawn..

When it comes to deciding what's best for the Nix in terms of youth development I think I'm going to side with Ernie Merrick (40 yrs coaching experience including 12 yrs at the Victorian Institute of Sport) over JD (played a bit and now posts on a forum in his lunch break).

Sorry JD.

Not sure how you are pulling out downsides to this normo. Or at least saying it's hardly a good thing but not stating the actual downsides.

No of course not, but it's just another distraction from the real problem which is that the club have not signed enough good players for the first team!  The downside is that our limited off field resources, money and energy are being spent on something that isn't actually going to improve the team.

I'm also interested as to how this will work in practice.  Week to week assume Phoenix provide up to 6 first teamers - means they need to find between 12-15 others to make up a side.  Some of those will be youngsters but some would need to be potential first teamers for this to have any benefit (i.e. to bring into the squad if there are injuries etc).  Are we actually going to be able to convince the top players (guys like Riera, Krishna) to come and play for the Phoenix Ressies rather than Auckland or TW so they're available for us to pick up?  Are we going to pay them what they would get at ACFC or Waitak?  And if those players stay at those clubs will we still pick them up rather than guys from the reserves if we get injuries?  Maybe there is something I have missed, but I just don't see how this works in practice...unless it is going to be a bunch of "Justin Gulley" types in which case I don't actually see what this is all in aid of.

But much easier to just say "JD, you're so negative" instead of actually thinking about the proposal...

Can't we all get along? Don't we all want NZ Football to better, ie All Whites at world cups, more players in major European leagues etc. A better Phoenix helps that, and them having a reserve team in the ASBP makes it better for both parties - stop yelling at each other and get on with it.

For all you ACFC fanatics, do you actually think that there are more than 1000 people in NZ who really care about the ASBP, and do you really think there is the infrastructure in NZ to make it anything better than it actually is right now? Solutions please, not your standard Phoenix abuse.

The way I see it, we have to make the most of what we have and I believe NZF is on the right path. WOF forms a framework for kids of all abilities. The best have opportunities to go to Wynrs, APFA, Ole etc, and the odd example of amazing will naturally rise, eg Ryan Thomas.

Those really dedicated can earn themselves a US college scholarship and/or apprenticeship in UK/Europe. Other good ones will go via the Phoenix academy and some will become A league stars. Some of those will go no further, and some will get themselves a better deal. Some will star in the ASBP and go no further (because they like beer and girls), and some will star in the ASBP and do something better. Ultimately more good footballers coming out of NZ than we've ever had before equals a better All Whites

Now in the good old days of a club-based National League playing on amazing grounds like Murdoch Park did all the above opportunities exist?

Like I said, we can all get along and stop yelling at each other - you either want NZ football to be better or you really think paying has-beens and never weres to play on suburban grounds in local leagues is a good way to spend money

I suspect some (read ACFC) ASB clubs are thoroughly looking forward to playing the Nix on a regular & competitive basis, even if it's the Nix 2nd team. Could get spicy.

Can't we all get along? Don't we all want NZ Football to better, ie All Whites at world cups, more players in major European leagues etc. A better Phoenix helps that, and them having a reserve team in the ASBP makes it better for both parties - stop yelling at each other and get on with it.

For all you ACFC fanatics, do you actually think that there are more than 1000 people in NZ who really care about the ASBP, and do you really think there is the infrastructure in NZ to make it anything better than it actually is right now? Solutions please, not your standard Phoenix abuse.

The way I see it, we have to make the most of what we have and I believe NZF is on the right path. WOF forms a framework for kids of all abilities. The best have opportunities to go to Wynrs, APFA, Ole etc, and the odd example of amazing will naturally rise, eg Ryan Thomas.

Those really dedicated can earn themselves a US college scholarship and/or apprenticeship in UK/Europe. Other good ones will go via the Phoenix academy and some will become A league stars. Some of those will go no further, and some will get themselves a better deal. Some will star in the ASBP and go no further (because they like beer and girls), and some will star in the ASBP and do something better. Ultimately more good footballers coming out of NZ than we've ever had before equals a better All Whites

Now in the good old days of a club-based National League playing on amazing grounds like Murdoch Park did all the above opportunities exist?

Like I said, we can all get along and stop yelling at each other - you either want NZ football to be better or you really think paying has-beens and never weres to play on suburban grounds in local leagues is a good way to spend money

Relax. It's called fan rivalry. Harmless.

Seems a one way fan rivalry. You guys see us as rivals, we don't give a sh*t.

Also, we are 2 teams in different cities playing in completely different competitions. I still don't understand how you consider us rivals at all. 

You're right, I won't. Because it makes no sense. We aren't rivals. 

A rivalry still has to go both ways. Last I saw most of us actually cheer you on at O-League and CWC. Whereas its you guys who want us to do poorly. 

Doesn't sound like much of a rivalry in its current state to me. 

And "history" is considered 7 years now? 

Seems a one way fan rivalry. You guys see us as rivals, we don't give a sh*t.

Also, we are 2 teams in different cities playing in completely different competitions. I still don't understand how you consider us rivals at all. 

Should we have a "ACFC Bashers V NIX Bashers" thread - so it does not keep coming up in any other thread with ASB, A-League, W/Club/C or O-League topic.

Nah. It's ongoing off-season entertainment.

U wot?