National League / OCL

ASBP 2014/2015

397 replies · 79,134 views
over 11 years ago

Bluemagic wrote:

Tegal wrote:

a lot of African countries. 

Bosnias teams never made it past qualifying stage of the CL, but their national team are in the WC. 

Probably a few more examples. 

A strong domestic league doesn't necessarily mean equivalent success in international competition either. 

But I do think the ASBP plays a part in developing players for eventual international success. But I wouldn't go as far as to say it is crucial to success. 

While I appreciate your lukewarm recognition of our national league I would disagree with your final point Tegal. The ASBP is crucial to the development of the game in NZ and thus the success of the All Whites. Many of the current All White squad have played in the national league and that's certainly true of the current Under 20 squad (leaving aside the Wanderers last season). The ASBP is the intermediate school to the high school of world professional football.

This why it's important that NZF starts to pay more attention to the development of the ASBP rather than largely leave it to its own devices. There's no question that a vibrant national league will feed through to a stronger All Whites, and dare I say, Phoenix who can cherry pick the best players.

Just because a lot of AWs have played in the ASBP doesn't necessarily mean the ASBP has played a significant role in their footballing development though. After all it's the highest level of football in New Zealand so you'd expect the best players in the country to play in it (before they start a pro career). If the ASBP didn't exist those guys would have simply played at the next highest level. Just because playing in the national league and playing for the national team are correlated doesn't mean that one causes the other. Did playing in the ASBP make them good enough for the AWs? Or were they among the best players in the country so they played in the ASBP?

I'm not saying the ASBP doesn't help those top players in the country develop, but just saying that claiming it's crucial for that on the basis that our best players have played in it isn't a sound argument. 

This is where I disagree. The national league is the crucial step up in standard from the winter club scene for any promising player. Both are needed in a players development and both competitions need investing in. Without a vibrant national league I would suggest a number of young players who make the transition to higher levels would fall by the wayside. Academies can't fill that void, nor the US college system. 

To be honest, I think it's more important for NZF to invest in the ASBP than in one-off All Whites games in obscure Asian locations. It might not be as glamorous but it's vitally important. That's why I'm seriously concerned new CEO Andy Martin still doesn't get it and is continuing his predecessors benign neglect of our national league with his focus on the AWs and Phoenix.  As any gardener knows, you must water the roots for the plant to flower.

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over 11 years ago

........ and also allow the sun to shine upon the flower.

"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...

I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...

Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...

Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."

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over 11 years ago

Bluemagic wrote:

Bluemagic wrote:

Tegal wrote:

a lot of African countries. 

Bosnias teams never made it past qualifying stage of the CL, but their national team are in the WC. 

Probably a few more examples. 

A strong domestic league doesn't necessarily mean equivalent success in international competition either. 

But I do think the ASBP plays a part in developing players for eventual international success. But I wouldn't go as far as to say it is crucial to success. 

While I appreciate your lukewarm recognition of our national league I would disagree with your final point Tegal. The ASBP is crucial to the development of the game in NZ and thus the success of the All Whites. Many of the current All White squad have played in the national league and that's certainly true of the current Under 20 squad (leaving aside the Wanderers last season). The ASBP is the intermediate school to the high school of world professional football.

This why it's important that NZF starts to pay more attention to the development of the ASBP rather than largely leave it to its own devices. There's no question that a vibrant national league will feed through to a stronger All Whites, and dare I say, Phoenix who can cherry pick the best players.

Just because a lot of AWs have played in the ASBP doesn't necessarily mean the ASBP has played a significant role in their footballing development though. After all it's the highest level of football in New Zealand so you'd expect the best players in the country to play in it (before they start a pro career). If the ASBP didn't exist those guys would have simply played at the next highest level. Just because playing in the national league and playing for the national team are correlated doesn't mean that one causes the other. Did playing in the ASBP make them good enough for the AWs? Or were they among the best players in the country so they played in the ASBP?

I'm not saying the ASBP doesn't help those top players in the country develop, but just saying that claiming it's crucial for that on the basis that our best players have played in it isn't a sound argument. 

This is where I disagree. The national league is the crucial step up in standard from the winter club scene for any promising player. Both are needed in a players development and both competitions need investing in. Without a vibrant national league I would suggest a number of young players who make the transition to higher levels would fall by the wayside. Academies can't fill that void, nor the US college system. 

To be honest, I think it's more important for NZF to invest in the ASBP than in one-off All Whites games in obscure Asian locations. It might not be as glamorous but it's vitally important. That's why I'm seriously concerned new CEO Andy Martin still doesn't get it and is continuing his predecessors benign neglect of our national league with his focus on the AWs and Phoenix.  As any gardener knows, you must water the roots for the plant to flower.

Fair enough. I was just saying that by itself the argument that AWs played in the ASBP therefore the ASBP is crucial for the development of AWs doesn't hold up. If you say that the national league is significant step up and therefore made those players better than they otherwise might have been then that's legit.

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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over 11 years ago

Surprise, surprise Mainland Football don't want to see a Nelson Falcons team in the ASB Premiership..

http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/sport/10210676/Falcons-upset-at-interference

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over 11 years ago

If the ASBP wasn't crucial for player development (including AW'S) then why are the Phoenix fighting tooth and nail to get its reserves "development team" players in the competition?  Overall strong national league running at the same time as A league vital for player development and this flows on to AW'S.

UNDERDOG: One that is expected to lose a contest or struggle 

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over 11 years ago

Mainland football - a jaw dropping lack of judgement, neatly written up in clear black and white for all to see....wtf etc

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over 11 years ago

I certainly hope Nelson Falcons are successful in eventually getting into the ASBP and prove their doubters wrong, just as the youth team has done. I'd also like to see South Auckland United get into the national league as well. Both sides would be a welcome much-needed boost to the competition.

However I fear that behind-the-scenes deception will be against them because NZF has in the past apparently rejected a well organized Auckland North Shore bid and seem only interested in a self-financing ASBP as a means to give their Under 20 All Whites squad and the Phoenix reserves a regular work out. I suspect NZF are deliberately holding back on the expansion of the ASBP because it doesn't suit their financial or playing priorities. 

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over 11 years ago

 " well organized Auckland North Shore bid "

?  Have they found 2 clubs who can stay in the same room as each other ,  for more than a minute ,  without trying to kill each other ....

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over 11 years ago

Has there ever been 'Well organised North Shore bid'????

A North Shore team would be fantastic but cant see it ever happening!

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over 11 years ago · edited over 11 years ago · History

Bluemagic wrote:

I certainly hope Nelson Falcons are successful in eventually getting into the ASBP and prove their doubters wrong, just as the youth team has done. I'd also like to see South Auckland United get into the national league as well. Both sides would be a welcome much-needed boost to the competition.

However I fear that behind-the-scenes deception will be against them because NZF has in the past apparently rejected a well organized Auckland North Shore bid and seem only interested in a self-financing ASBP as a means to give their Under 20 All Whites squad and the Phoenix reserves a regular work out. I suspect NZF are deliberately holding back on the expansion of the ASBP because it doesn't suit their financial or playing priorities. 

I agree and disagree with you.  

I'd like to see another AKL team and sides from Gisbourne and Nelson back in our national league (under whatever name/premise it goes by) and I too want the Wanderers chucked out BUT I feel that a Nix reserves team should be allowed to take the place of Wanderers developing young NZ talent who will get little game time at sides such as Waitak, AFCF and possibly CU.  

Similar to the way Spain and German roll.

Supporter world's best and worst football teams: Waikato/WaiBop, Kingz, Knights, Phoenix, The Argyle, The Whites & the All Whites

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over 11 years ago

Great news!


Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.


Phoenix fans. We have to win them over one fan at a time.

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over 11 years ago · edited over 11 years ago · History

“You need only take a look at some of the top nations at the World Cup and all of them, to some extent, can point to a strong domestic competition playing a key role in the success of their national sides and New Zealand is no different.”  - NZF CEO Andy Martin

So, all of some of the top football nations at the World Cup can say their strong domestic leagues - to some extent, have played some sort of key role in the success of their national sides...

...and New Zealand is no different.

At least he was able to get his point across concisely and clearly ....

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over 11 years ago

Long time coming. Feels like a corner turned by NZF.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 11 years ago

Wish that one of the local teams had got in - net least to make it a 10 team league.

Auckland City FC

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over 11 years ago

So at least 8 players must be eligible to play for the AWs. I doubt this will affect the teams at all. I am interested how the ACFC guys feel about this. A positive step to develop football in NZ. Surely they cannot complain.

I would be intrigued to find out whom enforces this. Say a team says 'stuff it, we are stacking our side', do they lose the points after the game or are they stopped from playing in the match?

Grumpy old bastard alert

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over 11 years ago

alireggae wrote:

Wish that one of the local teams had got in - net least to make it a 10 team league.

Yeah I like an even league too. Thought Wanderers may have dropped out. Perhaps they have plans for another team next year?

Nix C? ;)


Allegedly

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over 11 years ago

Or... "To some extent all of some of the top nations [can point to a strong domestic competition playing a key role in the success of their national sides and New Zealand is no different"]

1. Waffle straight from the Ricki Herbert school of manager-speak.

2. He's wrong. NZ is different. The domestic competition as far as I'm aware, hasn't for years played a key role in the success of our national sides. Ask Ryan. Ask Woodsy & Marco. Ask RH. Ask Clapham.

"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...

I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...

Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...

Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."

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over 11 years ago

Jeff Vader wrote:

So at least 8 players must be eligible to play for the AWs. I doubt this will affect the teams at all. I am interested how the ACFC guys feel about this. A positive step to develop football in NZ. Surely they cannot complain.

I would be intrigued to find out whom enforces this. Say a team says 'stuff it, we are stacking our side', do they lose the points after the game or are they stopped from playing in the match?

ACFC to announce the return of Alex Feneridis, Adam McGeorge, Chad Coombes and one/two/three other Kiwis who have been revealed as not being up to the job.

"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...

I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...

Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...

Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."

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over 11 years ago

Jerzy Merino wrote:

Or... "To some extent all of some of the top nations [can point to a strong domestic competition playing a key role in the success of their national sides and New Zealand is no different"]

1. Waffle straight from the Ricki Herbert school of manager-speak.

2. He's wrong. NZ is different. The domestic competition as far as I'm aware, hasn't for years played a key role in the success of our national sides. Ask Ryan. Ask Woodsy & Marco. Ask RH. Ask Clapham.

But those players got noticed by playing in our domestic competition, didn't they? Maybe they would have got noticed anyway but I think it did help them out.

Anyway, I too would have liked to see another team in the league. Most preferably, Youngheart Manawatu.

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over 11 years ago

Jerzy Merino wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

So at least 8 players must be eligible to play for the AWs. I doubt this will affect the teams at all. I am interested how the ACFC guys feel about this. A positive step to develop football in NZ. Surely they cannot complain.

I would be intrigued to find out whom enforces this. Say a team says 'stuff it, we are stacking our side', do they lose the points after the game or are they stopped from playing in the match?

ACFC to announce the return of Alex Feneridis, Adam McGeorge, Chad Coombes and one/two/three other Kiwis who have been revealed as not being up to the job.

McGeorge is at Central so that much is a given. Rumours Coombes at Waikato and Feneridis at Waitakere. Basically anyone that hates Ramon moves to Waitakere and anyone that hates Waitakere (and you can include Temple, Butler and any other number of variables) moves to ACFC.....

Grumpy old bastard alert

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over 11 years ago

Jeff Vader wrote:

So at least 8 players must be eligible to play for the AWs. I doubt this will affect the teams at all. I am interested how the ACFC guys feel about this. A positive step to develop football in NZ. Surely they cannot complain.

I would be intrigued to find out whom enforces this. Say a team says 'stuff it, we are stacking our side', do they lose the points after the game or are they stopped from playing in the match?

I'm quite happy with the 50% NZ game day squad ruling. As for Australia A-League All Stars United City Rovers Reserves and Junior All White City United Special Club - I'd much rather see the inclusion of the 3 local clubs and those two dropped.

Auckland City FC

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over 11 years ago

Jeff Vader wrote:

So at least 8 players must be eligible to play for the AWs. I doubt this will affect the teams at all. I am interested how the ACFC guys feel about this.

J Pritch will be leading the cheering on this one. Whew, one more year...

"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...

I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...

Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...

Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."

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over 11 years ago

Good news with the Nix being included. Hopefully this means more attention to the league

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over 11 years ago

Hope this means they are eligible for O-League qualification 

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over 11 years ago

theidiot wrote:

Hope this means they are eligible for O-League qualification 

dont think so

Founder

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over 11 years ago

Great with the inclusion of the Nix, and 50% of players in the match day squad needing to be eligible to play for AW's. Not that I forsee it will really have a direct impact on the composition of AW's squads in the very near future. 

Don't know why they just don't make it a 10 team league though, would feel just about right. Would be interested in hearing a bit more on what was said to the teams who were not included in the league, and where they stand on possible future inclusion. I've read up a bit on the Nelson Marlborough Falcons situation, but would be interested to see what behind the scenes work needs to happen to get these teams up to ASB prem standard.  

No YoungHeart Manawatu - Booooo!

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over 11 years ago

Feverish wrote:

theidiot wrote:

Hope this means they are eligible for O-League qualification 

dont think so

I now know they definetly aren't eligible

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over 11 years ago

theidiot wrote:

Feverish wrote:

theidiot wrote:

Hope this means they are eligible for O-League qualification 

dont think so

I now know they definetly aren't eligible

Source?

"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...

I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...

Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...

Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."

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over 11 years ago

Phoenix twitter just said so


Allegedly

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over 11 years ago

theidiot wrote:

Good news with the Nix being included. Hopefully this means more attention to the league

I've given this a little thought and I'm prepared to be open minded about it and if Wellington A-League Rejects FC bring some attention to the league... and fans then maybe OK.

Still should have dropped NZF Youth United and included two of the local clubs though.

Auckland City FC

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over 11 years ago · edited over 11 years ago · History

Right. Cheers Tegal.

NB: Phoenix v Auckland City is final game 14th March round 18, before the play-offs - venue TBA. Could be interesting.

"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...

I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...

Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...

Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."

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over 11 years ago

alireggae wrote:

theidiot wrote:

Good news with the Nix being included. Hopefully this means more attention to the league

I've given this a little thought and I'm prepared to be open minded about it and if Wellington A-League Rejects FC bring some attention to the league... and fans then maybe OK.

Still should have dropped NZF Youth United and included two of the local clubs though.

Except  three applied, and all were rejected.

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over 11 years ago

Phoenix reserves/youth home ground?

Kotahitanga. We are one.

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over 11 years ago

2ndBest wrote:

alireggae wrote:

theidiot wrote:

Good news with the Nix being included. Hopefully this means more attention to the league

I've given this a little thought and I'm prepared to be open minded about it and if Wellington A-League Rejects FC bring some attention to the league... and fans then maybe OK.

Still should have dropped NZF Youth United and included two of the local clubs though.

Except  three applied, and all were rejected.

Yes - why? YHM were shafted in favour of The Children of '82 Legends United Rovers with no reasonable justification.

Auckland City FC

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over 11 years ago

Global Game wrote:

Phoenix reserves/youth home ground?

Looks like Newtown Park

Auckland City FC

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over 11 years ago

alireggae wrote:

2ndBest wrote:

alireggae wrote:

theidiot wrote:

Good news with the Nix being included. Hopefully this means more attention to the league

I've given this a little thought and I'm prepared to be open minded about it and if Wellington A-League Rejects FC bring some attention to the league... and fans then maybe OK.

Still should have dropped NZF Youth United and included two of the local clubs though.

Except  three applied, and all were rejected.

Yes - why? YHM were shafted in favour of The Children of '82 Legends United Rovers with no reasonable justification.

I suspect a combination of player base, resources, organisation capability, facilities.

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over 11 years ago

I am pleased to see the Phoenix reserve team in the League and think that it will be of immense value to the Club.

However, can I presume, assume, or guess that all of the Phoenix Reserve side will be amateurs.  

Don't piss off old people - the older we get, the less "Life in Prison" is a deterrent                    

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over 11 years ago

Personally Id have waited till the first week of the competition , Then drop all new requirements on everyones heads .. quelle excitemont !

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over 11 years ago

R.I.P ASP Premiership its been a fun 10 years

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