I have 2 points Ali which I will lay out now we have finally gotten somewhere with it.
1: (which is mainly more about where your angle is Ali) You are a massive proponent of the ASBP and supporting what is in your backyard (the search function is great for that kind of thing) I can respect that but how can you get people along to a team that people cannot identify with because there is no local players? I know that exact same argument can be thrown at the Phoenix and fair enough but the difference is exposure and media - exactly what the ASBP does not have. People can identify with the Sigmunds, Brockies etc (AWs if you like) because its an 'NZ team' and those players have profiles being AWs. Now you are essentially trying to get people down to watch that are football people already (cause no one else knows what's going on because of lack of media) so why do the people from Mangere, Western Springs, Mt Albert, Ellerslie etc (and Chopah has mentioned this too in a round about way) want to go along and support a team of players they don't even know or have any buy in with. Because of good football? They can get that on TV for free and its better football. The CWC game, there was only 3 Kiwis starting I think (Tamati, Ivan and Danko). Ivan is a beacon for the club in that respects but that's it. Why should these football people whom have time on their hands, go and support a team of what is effectively imports that get paid when they shouldn't. If you are looking at local supporters, people have to generally identify with the club. Most people don't identify with ACFC because a: Its Central in disguise (just like Waitakere is as well) and b: No one knows these players. I understand that you can say 'well why do people support Man U etc' - because of exposure. Would exposure fix the problem? In some respects Yes (for getting people along to the ASBP in general but then you have to fight the quality of football offered too) but probably not to supporting your team because again, other than Ivan, there really is no players that are identifiable or can relate to. Understand that this is not a 'you need to find a solution to this Ali' but more a 'here is the problem and why I think the import situation does not help it'
2: (and more the general one) The Phoenix were accused by ACFC supporters of being an Aussie club in an Aussie league and doing nothing for NZ football because they bought in Aussie journeyman. The supporters were quite vocal on going and watching a team of Kiwis that were local etc. Looking at ACFC, how does what they are doing, help provide pathways to Kiwi footballers when there are so many imports? Lets forget the cash into the ASBP because the competition is that fucked it relies on an NZ team going to CWC to survive on that payout. If what the Phoenix was doing for so long was wrong, how does a ACFC, a team that is arguable in a more realistic competition to aim at for most footballers with talent in NZ, (ASBP being easier to get into than HAL) help provide those pathways that when its obvious you can't get in because of the amount of imports? You club has a fantastic coach and coaches a fantastic style (relative to what traditionally happens in NZ) Would it not be better for football in NZ to have Kiwis playing and learning to play that way than stacking a side full of imports?
The bullshit point I wanted to make is out of the way and finally its been acknowledged because while I can see positives to imports, what's going on at ACFC is not good for the game in terms of pathways for Kiwi players, local support etc. If you feel that you disagree with that, that's fine, but then you can't throw stones at the Phoenix for doing the same thing.
Disclaimer: I'm going to regret this because I don't give a shit if the Penix have 100% imports and have never complained about them being full of Aussie Journeymen.
The current Phoenix squad has 41% kiwi born players - the minority.
Answer me this: If Phoenix supporter find they cannot identify with their local ASBP team, whether that be Auckland TW or whoever, how can you identify with the Phoenix?
Again for the record although undoubtedly this will be ignored entirely...
Disclaimer: I'm going to regret this because I don't give a shit if the Penix have 100% imports and have never complained about them being full of Aussie Journeymen.
See now you are twisting the argument to suit your point of view (as per normal)
We
are talking about imports and I have listed them, and you have
acknowledged them. We are not talking about people like Danko or James
Pritchett who while born in other countries, are considered Kiwis. We are not getting into race and hate crimes against people that are or are not born here (which oddly enough, you guys raised as a distraction point to try attack me rather than the point, which I don't really give a shit about but it proves you lads have no point) so stop with the subterfuge and keep it exactly where it is at - imports in football.
I have noted that other supporters of your ilk will defend the likes of Burfoot and Browne as being Kiwis but label Danny Robinson as an import. For me, Danny is an import (has he lived here 5 years continuously? I'm not sure). I look to the definition that FIFA provide for being an import or if you like, part of any leagues foreign quota. In fact, they use that same definition for the A League in that to not be classified as an import or naturalised, you have to have 5 years continuous living in the country. You can call them what you like but until they satisfy that criteria, they are defined as imports. I am sure you will somehow find a way to make FIFAs definition that I have just used as a race and hate crime... Just don't.
The Phoenix have 5 imports. ACFC have 9 (Dickinson, Tade, Krisna, Bale, Iwata, Irving, Berlanga, Billen, Marquez) and you could argue more if you want to get picky but I'm taking the obvious ones here.
With regards to your disclaimer, as I noted in the very 1st line and you conveniently choose to ignore, I shall paste it for you again Ali
"(which is mainly more about where your angle is Ali) You are a massive
proponent of the ASBP and supporting what is in your backyard (the
search function is great for that kind of thing)"
Because I did go back and search your posts to find out what your angle is and you are right, its being a proponent of the ASBP and I acknowledged that. You should read everything in front of you and not selective bits of it to suit your argument. I notice when you choose to use the quote function, you only choose the bits that suit your argument too...
Whats my issue with this volume of imports? Well the best thing about having not posted for about 20 hours is that others got in and kinda validated what I was saying - that they can't relate to the team (again thats not the issue I was address as such but in the case for some people, causation and effect are related). I asked this about 4 months ago and someone said that they didn't really care who was wearing the shirt for ACFC, it was more about the club and the shirt. Thats not something that I had thought about because for me, I actually care who wears the shirt and represents any clubs I support (I have the same issue with Alex Pledger in the Breakers in that he is a fucking donkey and does not deserve to wear that shirt) For you guys, well that makes it interesting because you say you are passionate supporters but only so far as in not caring about who wears your teams shirt. I would have thought, if you placed a lot of value in that, then you would care EXACTLY who wears the shirt for your club.
I guess you could ask the question that would I be more of a supporter if there were less imports? Absolutely because then I see a team trying to win a competition in the same manner and spirit as everyone else (with probably Waitakere as a noted exception as well) and there are footballers that are local. I want to see local footballers shine through because that also gives a larger selection pool for potential AWs and also getting those guys out of here into pro leagues. I recall Alan Jones first year he fielded a team of locals and turned a prima donna like Liam Mulrooney into looking like a bloody good footballer (you had Shane Pascoe, Joel Matthews PV, Ulhman, Liam, Pritch, Johnathan Smith, Rosco and thats just off the top of my head...) As Smithy said, he has no love for TW this year because of the lack of local lads and also 'deathy uninteresting'
I do see imports being good for the league - 3 per team would do it but then with the volume you guys have, how does that help grow the talent level of New Zealand footballers when they can't play? People argue you could have a 3rd team in Auckland cause of the talent here - How about getting those players into the 2 teams that are here first rather than trying to have a 3rd team. 9 imports improves the standard of the play in the league - no it makes 1 team lopsided. If you put Juventus in the league and they thrashed every team 10-0, that would provide no benefit for any team or the league. I see what Ramon does coaching wise and feel every team should be looking to emulate that. The problem is, that the NZ footballers in that team never get a chance to play it, only exposure at training. Is it an ACFC issue to grow the level of talent in the country and skill of the players? I guess that depends on where you sit on the issue and I think there is a league wide responsibility towards that because some teams and games are absolutely fucking awful as illustrated on TV last year prior to the Phoenix games.
To answer your specific point you raised (and I wont ignore it) "If Phoenix supporter find they cannot identify with their local ASBP
team, whether that be Auckland TW or whoever, how can you identify with
the Phoenix?"
The answer is, its an NZ team in an Australian competition. As a New Zealander, everyone can identify with sticking one up an Australian. Its actually a part of our culture to Aussie bash whether we are calling them 'Same old Aussies, always cheating/racist/whatever' to gloating over our hold on the Bledisloe Cup to hating Jimmy Spithall for being a smarmy Aussie in a boat to being not being Australian to laughing at politicians like Pauline Hanson to not liking them for stealing Pavlova, Crowded House, Phar Lap, Russell Crowe (hmmmm). Thats why I support them. They may well be the Wellington Phoenix but I see an NZ team in an Australian competition like I do with the Breakers and the Warriors.