No habla Espanol - the NZFC bitch fight

Terminator X is a real name.  He's on WIkipedia and everything.

Irony.

Sorry was to obvious HN, I shall retreat.

Is it still irony if someone beats you to it?

Anyone willing to pay me 740k for a few coaching sessions?

I'll bring a couple of balls and some cones too.

You wouldn't be able to El G cause you wouldn't have time to what with that fulltime job (being an amateur) AND training 5 days a week...

I just don't know how those ACFC boys find the time to do all of that plus coach kids and go to church on Sunday...
Jeff Vader2011-11-01 23:15:34

Convinient Phil that you choose not to answer the valid questions put out there but then thats your M.O isn't it. Dodge the questions and play interference.

I couldn't care less where that money goes and neither should anyone in NZ football because Auckland City is keeping alive football in this country. If Auckland City wernt winning money for everyone there would be no franchises and no competition. People should be more grateful and look at the bigger picture.

Cheers

I think everyone in nzf should care. If they're caught with their pants down the damage it'd do to the sport in this country would be irreversible...

On the other hand if they are playing for free,and they can find enough time to hold down a job, train 5 nights a week,hold coaching clinics and play on the weekend,then good on them.

If they did charridy as well they would be awesome.

Two Questions:

Exactly!!
And all those people watched a team mainly of overseas players lose and win FA!

Jeff Vader2011-11-02 10:11:49

And Jeff i didnt dodge i answered it! I said i dont know i am not going to make up sh*te like some of your fellow posters do
but if your at the game sunday we can happily have a chat about all this hell i'll even get the 1st round!!

Massive benefit to NZF?
Maybe you would like to tell us why u think that is the case?
Then maybe some people could respond with there own thoughts
instead of all the mud slinging going on

I would take winning a spot at the club world champs and playing against some of the best sides and players in the world over winning a home semi final in the a-league anyday.

Ok I should clarify. Not 'NZF' but 'football in New Zealand'. I generally refer to New Zealand Football the parent body as NZF

1: Some of our rising talent have the ability to be professional footballers in their own country. For some young kids (and this happens with kids that go to America on college scholarships for many sports) that goes wrong because of an unfamiliar environment. In the case of Kosta and Marco, they have had the chance to develop in a familiar environment. Had they gone overseas first, would that have had that chance to do the same? We don't know. I don't take away the right for clubs and franchises to develop those kids, but to contrast that with a fulltime environment in their own backyard? Did Jacob benefit from a year riding the pine at the Phoenix? I wouldn't know but training fulltime in a pro environment, you would make the assumption that it would be better than not. Musa looks to have benefited from it (trial at Barnsley and physically bigger), Draper is overseas..

2: Exposure to football on TV. Prior to the A League (I'll leave NSL out because the Premiership was not in its current carnation) there was one season of the NZFC with no competition. All we got on TV of local football was a weekly 30min show. No games just highlights. It was always an Auckland side vs whomever. I had no issue with that but lets be honest in saying it was not exactly putting anything meaningful in front of people. It got pulled because of funding and low viewership. Granted the Knights product was not much better to watch but you can argue that the Phoenix product is. It put 'local' football in front of the masses. When you consider that the only other football that anyone can watch is at a non family friendly time (EPL after midnight) then the Phoenix on TV is inherently better.

3: Take a look around at the people wearing Phoenix merchandise. People wear it because they support it. I know you might argue that ACFC has merchandise too but they would possibly be the only club that does? Again people wear it because its tangible to the support of the Phoenix via point 2.

4: If NZF could afford to put a game or two in front of the masses each week, that may change in terms of support for the local game and people may want to wear the kit of their local team. The reality is that they cannot pay for that TV time because people do not watch it because when you get games that do not involve Auckland or Waitakere, you are watching a pretty ordinary product (Waikato v Manawatu isn't going to be a rating record). They chose to sink their money in other programmes of which you have to say the success of womens football has been phenominal. I was not a Herdman fan, but he delievered the goods on that front. They leave the exposure of football in NZ to the A League and it costs NZF $0.

5: The effect of the Phoenix we tend only to measure of a Premiership v A League perspective but there is the wider effects of children, women, the exposure of our country into Australia. Any mother that watches A League football and says they want their kid to be a Phoenix (or ACFC player for that matter) in inherently better than them wanting to be an All Black. This come from exposure to the product. Generally its accepted it comes for the Phoenix on TV.

6: I'm going to work on an assumption here so happy to have this point refuted but I think you can actually argue that in Wellington, football has an equal foothold  with rugby. I do not think you could argue that in any other town in NZ. Why is this? Because of the Phoenix. When Team Wellington was the only gig in town, did they have that? They didn't because they didn't have the exposure.

I could probably come up with other points but this is good for a conversation starter.

Dead right there. Nix crowds over probably the last two years have been ahed of both the Horror Canes and the Lions

There was another point that just came to mind and its a gripe the clubs have but it fits in with the bigger picture: Jeff Vader2011-11-02 11:28:37

Interesting points, I cant reply to fully as im using my phone at work and the screen aint big enough
but you seem to be putting forward an all our eggs in one basket arguement?
Thats part of the problem all we hear about is Phoeninx and more Phoenix in the media while that happens our domestic league will never grow and its not just football its the same in Basketball and League and to a certain extent Rugby
As for Rojas and Barborouses they are prime examples as to why i have a problem with the Phoenix why are more players not given a chance? Those 2 have shown players from NZFC are good enough as has SigmUnd, and surely Spoonley ( or Imray for that matter) would have be a better bet than a 37 year old Warner!!JordyBean2011-11-02 11:48:04

I just want to change the perception that people can't be fans of the Phoenix and fans of ASB Premiership teams.

Jesus Buildit!! How many times do you need telling you mug!!!
Im a supporter so have no idea about club finances so how can i answer the question? Ive no idea who Greyhound is but i guess he is a supporter to? So how would he know either?

but unfortunatly you are in the huge minority mate which is part of my point!!

And I'm not against the Premiership either. I'm just against the notion that ACFC fans put up this front all the time about the evils of the Phoenix and the righteousness of ACFC. That just gets right up my sack because there is room for both to exist and do a job that benefits everyone and in fact does.

But why would they want to play in a stupid Autralian competition when they can rule the O-League and be in the 5th best club team in the world!!!

Firstly i do answer Jeffs questions and comment on his opinions whether i agree or disagree. thats what a forums for discussion and debate. So Buildit you can take your hands out of Vaders pockets.

A very, very debatable statement. Sure ACFC have made themselves (and the rest of the league) a bit of money from CWC, but the level of funding they get from Trillion is incomparable to what the other ASB sides get (with the possible exception of Waitak).

And fair enough, I don't begrudge them that, if you can get it, why wouldn't you? But let's not pretend (and I'm not saying that you are, but there are some who do) that ACFC's success is not premised upon a very large fund base for an outwardly amateur side, which at the same time dwarfs the budgets of their competition in the ASB Prem. So in that context the success of ACFC is hardly surprising. Just like if that funding was to suddenly go away, ACFC's fortunes on the field would more than likely significantly dip too.

Agreed!!
But is that your whole point? Is that why you have a problem
with ACFC because they secure more funding and sponsorship than any other ASBP club? So it is jealousy then?
Because they are a better run and organised club than any other in the comp?

He's actually a majority on this forum. Most of us have continually said we see the value of the nzfc as well as the Phoenix. you just continually ignore this so you can use it as a gripe to avoid other issues raised.

But carry on going round in circles - it's fun to watch.

I've read through all these back and forth jibes for a while now, so would like to ask a couple of questions:

 

 

Fair call on point 1 but I would ask would ACFC be keen to help give others a leg up when it might take away from their glory of being OFC champions? An even league makes it harder for them so why would they be inclinded to help others. A fair point none the less.

In other news...

Auckland City FC vs NZ Olympic Squad
03/11/2011 (Kickoff 19:00) at North Harbour Stadium

Has the Olympic squad been named yet?chris.acfc2011-11-02 14:34:38

I must add that the comments on this thread are good though. More spice than the one-sided Auckland City forum, although the Auckland forum does have its fair share of hating.chris.acfc2011-11-02 14:46:17