likewise I bet some of the local Akld clubs are jealous that you hog all the trust money
Founder
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nb1 - do you know this kris-kross chap and if so is he really the tw#t that he comes across as on this forum?
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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no don't know him. I know most of my comments come across differently, but they all have the same message. I love my local league too much, and all I want is to see it develop, but its hard work when the Phoenix are dominating the NZ market. I know there are many out there who would come to the games, but the truth is they don't know that the clubs exist and that its a decent league. For me, I only found out about the team after they came to train my little brothers at his football academy, and then I hesitated for a few weeks not knowing what it would be like at their game.
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As people keep saying,it's not the phoenixs fault that not everybody shows up at games.
It was the same pre-Phoenix. In fact the existence of the Phoenix has let people know about the league if anything.
Not that you ever pay attention to what anybody tells you in reply,if it doesn't suit your point. You've been told things over and over,yet keep making the same ill informed posts.
Though I accept your new point of view that it isn't the phoenixs fault,and it is frustrating that the nzfc doesnt get better coverage. It's just that wasn't what you've been saying previously.Tegal2011-05-04 23:49:15
It was the same pre-Phoenix. In fact the existence of the Phoenix has let people know about the league if anything.
Not that you ever pay attention to what anybody tells you in reply,if it doesn't suit your point. You've been told things over and over,yet keep making the same ill informed posts.
Though I accept your new point of view that it isn't the phoenixs fault,and it is frustrating that the nzfc doesnt get better coverage. It's just that wasn't what you've been saying previously.Tegal2011-05-04 23:49:15
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It would be harder to develop without the Phoenix actually.
I found out about TW after going to Nix games and reading about it on this forum. Wouldn't call myself a fan of ASB premiership ("Your'e 'avin a larf"), but it is a nice relaxing day out without the angst and expectation that I get following the Nix or my kids' teams.
I found out about TW after going to Nix games and reading about it on this forum. Wouldn't call myself a fan of ASB premiership ("Your'e 'avin a larf"), but it is a nice relaxing day out without the angst and expectation that I get following the Nix or my kids' teams.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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As people keep saying,it's not the phoenixs fault that not everybody shows up at games.
It was the same pre-Phoenix. In fact the existence of the Phoenix has let people know about the league if anything.
Not that you ever pay attention to what anybody tells you in reply,if it doesn't suit your point. You've been told things over and over,yet keep making the same ill informed posts.
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Its not the Phoenix's fault but they have so much potential to advertise the local league. And no, the reserve matches dont make their way into the public media, only the existing supporters know about it, so that is hardly advertising.
It is very much possible to follow the Nix and not know about the local league.
It was the same pre-Phoenix. In fact the existence of the Phoenix has let people know about the league if anything.
Not that you ever pay attention to what anybody tells you in reply,if it doesn't suit your point. You've been told things over and over,yet keep making the same ill informed posts.
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Its not the Phoenix's fault but they have so much potential to advertise the local league. And no, the reserve matches dont make their way into the public media, only the existing supporters know about it, so that is hardly advertising.
It is very much possible to follow the Nix and not know about the local league.
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You change your mind like a girl changes clothes...
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You are a funny little chap.
A-League advertising local league? Does Super eggball advertise NPC or whatever it's called these days?
- Nix reserves playing coal face teams and it is reported in the local media and on ASB premiership website
- Nix players turning up to help coach local junior teams
- NZF getting $$ from the world cup in large part due to the AWs in the Nix squad.
- Nix players setting up a football academy
Clearly the Nix don't do enough to promote local football and clearly they should spend all their huge funds on more promoting of local football.
A-League advertising local league? Does Super eggball advertise NPC or whatever it's called these days?
- Nix reserves playing coal face teams and it is reported in the local media and on ASB premiership website
- Nix players turning up to help coach local junior teams
- NZF getting $$ from the world cup in large part due to the AWs in the Nix squad.
- Nix players setting up a football academy
Clearly the Nix don't do enough to promote local football and clearly they should spend all their huge funds on more promoting of local football.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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Chris, your posts are well intentioned but naive. It is not a matter of advertising, it's the simple fact that sport in new zealand is very poorly attended, football especially but not exclusively. There hasn't been a time in NZ since the 197s that club football in NZ has drawn any kind of decent gates. The comment that people would come if only the knew about it ignores almost every single fact about semi-pro and professional sport in NZ. For a sports mad country (supposedly) we do not attend live sport. The idea that all it would take is for the Phoenix to flash up the draw at their home games and then people will flock in their droves to Kiwitea street and Newtown Park is absolutely laughable.
There are many many people who know about the NPC and Super 14 yet no-one goes. Doewsn't that at a most basic level show that things are just a bit more complicated than that?
Normo's coming home
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You are a funny little chap.
A-League advertising local league? Does Super eggball advertise NPC or whatever it's called these days?
- Nix reserves playing coal face teams and it is reported in the local media and on ASB premiership website
- Nix players turning up to help coach local junior teams
- NZF getting $$ from the world cup in large part due to the AWs in the Nix squad.
- Nix players setting up a football academy
Clearly the Nix don't do enough to promote local football and clearly they should spend all their huge funds on more promoting of local football.
A-League advertising local league? Does Super eggball advertise NPC or whatever it's called these days?
- Nix reserves playing coal face teams and it is reported in the local media and on ASB premiership website
- Nix players turning up to help coach local junior teams
- NZF getting $$ from the world cup in large part due to the AWs in the Nix squad.
- Nix players setting up a football academy
Clearly the Nix don't do enough to promote local football and clearly they should spend all their huge funds on more promoting of local football.
I actually agree that they should advertise it if they can. I'm sure I remember being told a reason why it couldn't happen though.
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personally I don't have a problem
- It is not the Phoenix's fault it is the fault of the NZ media who do not give a crap about all local football
- It lack of coverage would still not be different without the nix with the phoenix's participation in the A League the profile of the game has been raised in this country thats without a doubt
Nick, unfortunately it's nt just the media who don't give a crap, it's everyone.
I am going to turn this back on you and ask what is so great about the ASB Premiership that we should all love it? I have been a regular at domestic football in NZ since I was about 12 but the standard has only marginally improved, the facilities are basic, the "experience" really is only for the hard core fan.
If you have only 2 days a week off what is it about the NZFC that people should be using one quarter off their day off to go and watch. I go but that's because I'm a bit sad, but really isn't it a bit crap? Is it any wonder that people prefer the nix, better stadium, better experience and better standard of play? The only argument I ever here is that it is "local"...
With lower level rugby, or league or netball you at least have the argument that because they are not major overseas sports you are still only3-4 levels from the top even at NZ grass roots level. On the other hand the NZFC is so far away from the top level of football and it is so bleeding obvious from the quality that is the case, it doesn't surprise me that some people would prefer a premiership match on the couch over what is actually a fairly mickey mouse competition. Call me cynical that that is how I see it.
Normo's coming home
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You are a funny little chap.
A-League advertising local league? Does Super eggball advertise NPC or whatever it's called these days?
- Nix reserves playing coal face teams and it is reported in the local media and on ASB premiership website
- Nix players turning up to help coach local junior teams
- NZF getting $$ from the world cup in large part due to the AWs in the Nix squad.
- Nix players setting up a football academy
Clearly the Nix don't do enough to promote local football and clearly they should spend all their huge funds on more promoting of local football.
A-League advertising local league? Does Super eggball advertise NPC or whatever it's called these days?
- Nix reserves playing coal face teams and it is reported in the local media and on ASB premiership website
- Nix players turning up to help coach local junior teams
- NZF getting $$ from the world cup in large part due to the AWs in the Nix squad.
- Nix players setting up a football academy
Clearly the Nix don't do enough to promote local football and clearly they should spend all their huge funds on more promoting of local football.
I actually agree that they should advertise it if they can. I'm sure I remember being told a reason why it couldn't happen though.
Cos Terry has enough problems paying ACC and PAYE?
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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Plus a lot of people already follow club football,then don't really feel an affiliation with the nzfc side. Same kind of goes with the npc,barely anyone goes now. They get extra casual punters since it's in a proper stadium,and like JD said,it's a lot closer to the top level relatively.
This isn't criticizing the nzfc at all,I'm a fan of it. It's just reality.
The Phoenix get those extra casuals in,and hopefully they go on to support nzfc,or their kids get inspired to play and the nzfc ends up with a bigger and better playing pool eventually.
This isn't criticizing the nzfc at all,I'm a fan of it. It's just reality.
The Phoenix get those extra casuals in,and hopefully they go on to support nzfc,or their kids get inspired to play and the nzfc ends up with a bigger and better playing pool eventually.
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It wouldn't exactly cost a bomb would it?
I was thinking more along the lines of it being the asb premiership. Sponsor clashes and all that.
I was thinking more along the lines of it being the asb premiership. Sponsor clashes and all that.
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It wouldn't exactly cost a bomb would it?
I was thinking more along the lines of it being the asb premiership. Sponsor clashes and all that.
I was thinking more along the lines of it being the asb premiership. Sponsor clashes and all that.
Dunno, but the Nix's own advertising last season wasn't exactly ubiquitous.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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Couldn't hurt to put it on the big screen. If that costs money,they could add it to the bottom of the "next Phoenix home match" screen.
I'm sure there must be a reason. Id like to think we would if we could.
I'm sure there must be a reason. Id like to think we would if we could.
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If you have only 2 days a week off what is it about the NZFC that people should be using one quarter off their day off to go and watch.� I go but that's because I'm a bit sad, but really isn't it a bit crap?� Is it any wonder that people prefer the nix, better stadium, better experience and better standard of play?� The only argument I ever here is that it is "local"...[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Tegal] Plus a lot of people already follow club football,then don't really feel an affiliation with the nzfc side. Same kind of goes with the npc,barely anyone goes now. They get extra casual punters since it's in a proper stadium,and like JD said,it's a lot closer to the top level relatively.
I think there are two good points here:
1. What is the punter getting for investing time and money (in the case of A-League games)?
2. What sort of connection does the punter have with the "local" team?
Can't pretend to speak for the few hundred ACFC supporters, but at the TW games I got the feeling that it was mostly friends and family of the players with a few going for curiosity's sake.
With the Nix the whole vibe/experience is different - yes the facilities are nice, yes the standard of play is MUCH better, but also the atmosphere created by the fans (i.e those in FZ mostly) sets the experience apart from local football.
For our first nix game we were seated in Siberia - the family zone and yet we still had an enjoyable experience that made us come to more matches and then get season passes.
If I'd gone to a TW match without that behind me I'd have sat in the cold newtown park thinking what a pack of donkeys (but at least Wgtn donkeys) and probably not come back.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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Oh yes - re connection - Nix have done a lot of community engagements in the past. As professionals they can afford to do this. But that also raises the profile and creates goodwill. (Hurricanes also do this).
So-called amateur teams don't have this luxury.
So-called amateur teams don't have this luxury.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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As an example. I miss a lot of TW games. I always work weekends,I can justify going to nix games at westpac stadium,I get the night off. If I try say I want to go watch amateur football at Dave farrington park,I get told no.
It's just reality. Nothing to do with the Phoenix.
It's just reality. Nothing to do with the Phoenix.
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I think the point is that you can really like watching live football and still justify not going to the NZFC
Another example, I would follow very closely the results in NZ 4 day domestic cricket, I would rate myself as very interested in it but I would never go to a match. You could advertise it all you want but it is still not going to make me go
Normo's coming home
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So...
... Not sure where I said it was all Phoenix's fault - I don'y really give a shi*t about the Phoenix one way or another.
My beefs are:
1) Lack of media coverage which includes newspapers, radio, TV etc. (nothing to do with the Phoenix but it rankles when you see all the coverage of the Aussie A-League and the English Premiership).
2) Apathy. I read an article on this site by a retired footballer who said something like he'd love to go to the ASBP final but there would be no atmosphere so why would he bother... Or something like that. What???!!! That's just the sort of attitude that means exactly that situation will continue and kind of sums up the sport watching public. Scotland has a population of less than a million more than NZ and yet can get tens of thousands along to football games every week. Now I realise that football is the number 2 sport in Scotland (behind haggis throwing) but even if you compare to rugby's ITM cup then NZ is woefully behind in attendances.
3) The critisizm of the ACFC chants. Why?! The chants are just the kind of thing that creates atmosphere, promotes rivalry between the clubs and encourages more people to join in. I love it and really hope it grows.
On another point - what's with all the negativity against Chris (I don't know him)? It is surely natural in any discussion to listen to others points of view and refine your ideas accordingly. On one hand you accuse him of not taking on board your posts and on the other you accuse him of flip flopping. I think, like me, Chris is fairly new to this forum, so what's 'tired, old arguments' to some of you is not to Chris and myself and so to make a statement one day and then change it to some degree on another seems fair enough to me. Also, It can be quite difficult to make a point on a forum as sarcasm, facial expressions, tone of voice etc cannot be expressed.
Auckland City FC
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On point three. You make the point that it promotes rivalry between clubs, and I completely agree. Doing anti-Phoenix chants make no sense though, surely they should be on Team Wellington, or Waitak, YHM etc... . Anti-Phoenix chants at Kiwitea make about as much sense as anti-Norwich chants at Westpac Stadium.
Agree with 1). Highlights package was tried, but was costly, and I understand that NZF had to pay for airtime and to produce the coverage and it got to much. Hopefully if the All Whites keep succeeding and the Phoenix get on a good run, Football interest grows and Sky will see value in showing a package.
2) Hickey is associated with Red Bull I think,and his comments were quite sad.
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Actually I am on Nicks boat. I would like the Nix but it just gives me something to blame. I just hate the fact, that many Aucklanders are at home waiting for an EPL or Phoenix game, when they could come along to a live game in their own city. Come to local games and watch some pro games on tv and Im happy.
I have no problem with the Nix, just the NZ media which obviously is more drawn to the A-League, but should do more for the local league. And, I get a bit aggravated with the Nix making jokes of the "knitting-circle, Spanish team, and the anti-Nix chants" which aren't true.
@Hard News, I had no clue who the Knights even were until a year ago, so no jealousy at all.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=chris.acfc]Hard News gives me the exact reason why I wont support Phoenix next season. The 'About Yellow Fever' page says "Hard News puts most of his efforts in to supporting the game". This is crap as he should be supporting NZ football (at least in some form - such as getting a few thousand supporters out to Team Welly too) and not just some foreign Aussie league. By NZ Football bailing out Phoenix so many times, the lack of money is choking our local league from becoming pro, hence the reason why they have to 'cheat' the system. So I hate Phoenix now and hope it gets axed, and am enjoying watching some of ACFC's recent games.
Contradiction much?
To be fair to chris.acfc although his first post here was pretty ill-informed by his own admission he is really just a newbie. If he's changed his mind about the Nix in the meantime then that's cool with me.
chris.acfc - you have to understand that all the piss-taking done here about ACFC is really aimed at a very small hardcore group of ACFC fans who definitely give as good as they get. We've had years of them deriding the Nix for being an "Aussie" team so a few jokes about ACFC's spanish imports is fair enough in my book (and actually seems to have been taken in good spirit judging by some t-shirt designs I've seen on the ACFC forum).
And as pointed out quite nicely by James Dean all the stuff about the Nix holding back the NZFC in some way is just not true. As Detective Carter says in the movie Rush Hour when accused of destroying half a city block "that block was already messed up".
I support the Nix but I've got heaps of admiration for what ACFC are doing. I just happen to think a handful of their fans are numpties.
EDIT: agree with quite a lot of what you said in your last post alireggae.
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So we've all come to a mutual understanding..?
Fairly shocked I have to say!
Fairly shocked I have to say!
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Until Phil pops in.
He'd be disgusted by this behaviour.
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[QUOTE=2ndBest] [QUOTE=chris.acfc]
Good stuff - now bring it loud and vocally to the game.
chris.acfc - you have to understand that all the piss-taking done here about ACFC is really aimed at a very small hardcore group of ACFC fans who definitely give as good as they get. We've had years of them deriding the Nix for being an "Aussie" team so a few jokes about ACFC's spanish imports is fair enough in my book (and actually seems to have been taken in good spirit judging by some t-shirt designs I've seen on the ACFC forum).
EDIT: agree with quite a lot of what you said in your last post alireggae.
That's because you know I'm right. 
Auckland City FC
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I don't see fans of the Auckland or Counties-Manukau rugby league clubs calling the Warriors an "Aussie" team or having anti-Warrior slogans, or arguing that if NZ didn't have an NRL team then the broad masses would be flocking to see Otahuhu take on Grey Lynn or whatever. So why the negativity from the 248 crew?Doloras2011-05-05 11:17:59
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
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I don't see fans of the Auckland or Counties-Manukau rugby league clubs calling the Warriors an "Aussie" team or having anti-Warrior slogans, or arguing that if NZ didn't have an NRL team then the broad masses would be flocking to see Otahuhu take on Grey Lynn or whatever. So why the negativity from the 248 crew?
1) I wouldn't know as there is F-all coverage in the media of local league apart from Maori TV's Fox memorial round-up.
2) Can you back this up? Have you visited any League forums to see if anyone is moaning about the same issues (See my previous post for my issues - Phoenix not one of them)
3) I'd say there are similar issues with basketball and league. It seems that the media, if not the public, in NZ has the idea that NZ sport is inferior to Aussie sport and therefore not deserving of any coverage.
Auckland City FC
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Except that in all cases the leagues are clearly inferior to the Australian leagues.
That is the whole point of the Warriors, the Phoenix and the Breakers. Australia as a market of 30 million can afford to fund and support a higher quality and higher standard league than the New Zealand equivalents could ever manage in a small market and against the Rugby monster.
That is the whole point of the Warriors, the Phoenix and the Breakers. Australia as a market of 30 million can afford to fund and support a higher quality and higher standard league than the New Zealand equivalents could ever manage in a small market and against the Rugby monster.
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So...
... Not sure where I said it was all Phoenix's fault - I don'y really give a shi*t about the Phoenix one way or another.
My beefs are:
3) The critisizm of the ACFC chants. Why?! The chants are just the kind of thing that creates atmosphere, promotes rivalry between the clubs and encourages more people to join in. I love it and really hope it grows.
On another point - what's with all the negativity against Chris (I don't know him)? It is surely natural in any discussion to listen to others points of view and refine your ideas accordingly. On one hand you accuse him of not taking on board your posts and on the other you accuse him of flip flopping. I think, like me, Chris is fairly new to this forum, so what's 'tired, old arguments' to some of you is not to Chris and myself and so to make a statement one day and then change it to some degree on another seems fair enough to me. Also, It can be quite difficult to make a point on a forum as sarcasm, facial expressions, tone of voice etc cannot be expressed.
- It's quite nice that you have the opportunity to express your indifference to the Nix on a Nix Fans site (in a thread about local footy) - this is a very open forum, but obviously you wouldn't expect a lot of hugs from most posters (e.g. I don't feel the need to post on any Ar5ena1 or 5under1and fora)
- Criticism is directed at specific chants - and the relevence of them (what sort of atmosphere does it create please?).
- JD was very diplomatic about chris.acfc's posts. I actually think they are extremely ill-thought and based on ignorance and laziness. The flip-flop response is not changing "to some degree or another" it is a complete reversal .
- I'm not being sarcastic.
Junior822011-05-05 12:36:12
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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[QUOTE=alireggae]
- It's quite nice that you have the opportunity to express your indifference to the Nix on a Nix Fans site (in a thread about local footy) - this is a very open forum, but obviously you wouldn't expect a lot of hugs from most posters (e.g. I don't feel the need to post on any Ar5ena1 or 5under1and fora)
- Criticism is directed at specific chants - and the relevence of them (what sort of atmosphere does it create please?).
- JD was very diplomatic about chris.acfc's posts. I actually think they are extremely ill-thought and based on ignorance and laziness. The flip-flop response is not changing "to some degree or another" it is a complete reversal .
- I'm not being sarcastic.
- Yes it is. This is the ASBP part of it though, and this particular topic is ACFC.
- Any singing or chanting creates an atmosphere regardless of the words or are you saying that there's no atmosphere at a Spanish games for instance (assuming you don't speak Spanish) and that the atmosphere only exists for Spanish speakers?
- There can be many reasons for a moderate change of opinion or even a complete reversal and if one of those reasons is that Chris is reading the other side of the agument and adjusting his view point accordingly then those who were accusing him of ignoring parts of your argument are clearly wrong. I'd also say that when in the minority in your opinions with the majority against you then you tend to say things that may be more exagerrated than you mean especially under the cover of a forum.
Auckland City FC
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- Any singing or chanting creates an atmosphere regardless of the words or are you saying that there's no atmosphere at a Spanish games for instance (assuming you don't speak Spanish) and that the atmosphere only exists for Spanish speakers?
- There can be many reasons for a moderate change of opinion or even a complete reversal and if one of those reasons is that Chris is reading the other side of the agument and adjusting his view point accordingly then those who were accusing him of ignoring parts of your argument are clearly wrong. I'd also say that when in the minority in your opinions with the majority against you then you tend to say things that may be more exagerrated than you mean especially under the cover of a forum.
Context/relevence. Never mind. Next Nix game I will try and create some atmosphere by chanting "Who the f**k are Man Utd."
Usually if someone changes their view after discussion there is some acknowledgement of why the view has changed.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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I hate the Nix - they are sucking the life out of TW.
The Nix should be advertising all TW matches on it's website and at the A-League matches.
They are depriving TW of vital NZF $$
They don't do anything for local football.
The media concentrates on Terry and his woes or Paul Ifill and his Ifill-ness - just the other day Stu Jacobs coached some kids and if it wasn't for a dog attacking him it would have never been reported.
I hate the Nix. It's all their fault.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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Fact is, both the A-League and ASBP are major parts of NZ football development. The A-League are a step above the ASBP on the development pyramid. Both are important and both are valuable. True, the ASBP doesn't get the support it deserves. Some of that is external - poor media coverage isn't the fault of the Phoenix or NZ Football. And some of that is internal - the ASBP could be better funded (though often this argument is made by those with an unrealistic vision of what the ASBP could be). But really, undermining the Phoenix helps nobody. Supporting the Phoenix is supporting NZ Football. As is supporting Auckland City FC. They're just different parts of NZ Football.
I like to illustrate it like thus:
I like to illustrate it like thus:
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True. When Rangers fans chant "the famine is over, why don't you go home", it creates an atmosphere. Just not a very nice one. Same, IMHO, for anti-Nix chants, considering that many people support both ACFC and Nix.
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
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Can we just please get over those anti-Nix chants.
No big deal.
No big deal.
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True. When Rangers fans chant "the famine is over, why don't you go home", it creates an atmosphere. Just not a very nice one. Same, IMHO, for anti-Nix chants, considering that many people support both ACFC and Nix.
Big difference between a few anti-Nix chants and one about a famine that killed 1 million.
Three for me, and two for them.
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True. When Rangers fans chant "the famine is over, why don't you go home", it creates an atmosphere. Just not a very nice one. Same, IMHO, for anti-Nix chants, considering that many people support both ACFC and Nix.
Grand - join in when you feel like it and don't when you don't.
Auckland City FC
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