Do the players get some form of payment for playing and if so is this one of the problems i.e. are they paid to much for the level of football they play at?
Should any players that are playing in an amateur league get paid for playing?
waitak and auckland have kind of turned it into having to be semi-pro to be competitive though. So thats what it is.
Allegedly
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Should any players that are playing in an amateur league get paid for playing?
...but as we all know, they do.
Tegal, if it was only the NZFC you could understand it, but it quite obviously isn't.
Hard News2008-10-13 15:00:02
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Ohh...referring to clubs too? Yeah clearly isnt at all.
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waitak and auckland have kind of turned it into having to be semi-pro to be competitive though. So thats what it is.
And there in may lie some of the problem, Waitak & Auckland are cashed up by going to the club world champs, they have to pull in overseas players in the hope of being competitive there (which I don't blame them for), pay them reasonably well and also incentivise the better NZ based players to leave their current teams and come and play for them so they (Waitak & Auckland) have a chance of not being humiliated.
To hold on to their players the other teams try and match the player payments leading to a vicious circle of higher spending, players thinking they are worth more than they actually are, demanding higher fees leading to team budget blowouts.
Thisi is obviously all to the detriment of the league as a whole.
Then the question (asked half in jest) becomes is the desire to compete in the O-league and world club champs a detriment to NZ football?
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..Cue happyted in 5, 4, 3, 2 , 1 ..........
Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.
"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003
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Good points, so it's Auckland City killing Team Wellington not the Phoenix ?
Oh Ted.
Oh Ted.
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waitak and auckland have kind of turned it into having to be semi-pro to be competitive though. So thats what it is.
And there in may lie some of the problem, Waitak & Auckland are cashed up by going to the club world champs, they have to pull in overseas players in the hope of being competitive there (which I don't blame them for), pay them reasonably well and also incentivise the better NZ based players to leave their current teams and come and play for them so they (Waitak & Auckland) have a chance of not being humiliated.
To hold on to their players the other teams try and match the player payments leading to a vicious circle of higher spending, players thinking they are worth more than they actually are, demanding higher fees leading to team budget blowouts.
Thisi is obviously all to the detriment of the league as a whole.
Then the question (asked half in jest) becomes is the desire to compete in the O-league and world club champs a detriment to NZ football?
Thats a pretty warped question though. Because the answer based on everything is yes...but the fact is that its the O-League/CWC money also helps the NZFC become a better competition. Id suggest the allocation of the prizemoney from the CWC is the problem,as the 2 big clubs get most of it,and everything happens as exactly in your post
Tegal2008-10-13 15:32:08
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so if the phoenix played in the OFC and won then the auckland teams wouldn't get the extra money therefore the NZFC playing field would even out.
Im good at solving problems, real good
Im good at solving problems, real good
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Oh christ... Ted is going to explode when he reads this, just as well his moral superiority as the ONLY supporter of NZ football in New Zealand will help him through.
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waitak and auckland have kind of turned it into having to be semi-pro to be competitive though. So thats what it is.
And there in may lie some of the problem, Waitak & Auckland are cashed up by going to the club world champs, they have to pull in overseas players in the hope of being competitive there (which I don't blame them for),� pay them reasonably well and also incentivise the better NZ based players to leave their current teams and come and play for them so they (Waitak & Auckland) have a chance of not being humiliated.�To hold on to their players the other teams� try and match the player payments leading to a vicious circle of higher spending, players thinking they are worth more than they actually are, demanding higher fees leading to team budget blowouts.Thisi is obviously all to the detriment of the league as a whole.Then the question (asked half in jest) becomes is the desire to compete in the O-league and world club champs a detriment to NZ football?
�
Thats a pretty warped question though. Because the answer based on everything is yes...but the fact is that its the O-League/CWC money also helps the NZFC become a better competition. Id suggest the allocation of the prizemoney from the CWC is the problem,as the 2 big clubs get most of it,and everything happens as exactly in your post
�
�
So am i right in summating this discussion in this way, the O League and World Clup Champs are great for the NZFC while at the same time being horrendous for the NZFC?
www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com
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No bopman. Its great.
Baiter...it isnt the fault of Auckland or waitak...theyre bringing good players into the comp,with the extra money they have,and who can blame them??
It is clearly the fault of each franchise for overspending their budget etc. However...to be compettitve they are forced into overspending,to keep up with the 2 big clubs.
Therefore,i suggest rather than it being anyones clubs fault...i blame the allocation of prizemoney from the CWC for making the NZFC a clearly uneven playing field,which forces clubs to overspend to the situation we are in now. That and it cant be good having 2 semi pro teams,playing amateurs every season...with the 2 big clubs always winning...very bad for the comp
Allegedly
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Oh christ... Ted is going to explode when he reads this, just as well his moral superiority as the ONLY supporter of NZ football in New Zealand will help him through.
Sorry, only theorising
As I said the question was asked half in jest(so don't jump on me Happyted) but the question still remains, are player payments not only creating inequities in the league but also financial problems for those teams that aren't at the top as they try to compete for players?
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Do individual players get sponsored? Like for example Player X from Otago United gets a sponsorship from Yellow Fever say and Player B gets one from Fairfax ?
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...That and it cant be good having 2 semi pro teams,playing amateurs every season...with the 2 big clubs always winning...very bad for the comp
NZFC Grand Final 2008
Waitakere United vs Team Wellington
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Oh christ... Ted is going to explode when he reads this, just as well his moral superiority as the ONLY supporter of NZ football in New Zealand will help him through.
Can't wait to tune in later tonight 
Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.
"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003
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I knew someone would bring up this season haha. Exception rather than the rule?
Besides,with TW in financial trouble,it only strengthens theory that we had to overspend to be competitive 
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Actually Canterbury made the final second season as well. In 4 seasons there has only been two Waitak vs Auckland final... but I'm too busy supporting Australian football to know that.
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Damn you and your facts haha
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Do individual players get sponsored? Like for example Player X from Otago United gets a sponsorship from Yellow Fever say and Player B gets one from Fairfax ?
That happened last year with Team Welly. Match day programmes had a two page spread of player photos, with "sponsored by (insert local business or family) here".
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Same with Wharfies... apparently the Fever sponsored some guy named Mike Greene... although i heard he paid his own sponsorship money as we wouldn't give him any...
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I thought it probably would be happening, seems like a tried and true way for clubs to raise a little more dosh.
Is it a case of getting these indiviual sponsors to chip in a bit more money? Although i have no idea how much they contribute at the moment, but can't be enough if the likes of Team Welly are having financial problems.(not saying that this is the primary way of generating income but im sure it helps with costs etc)
Christo2008-10-13 17:36:47
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Actually Canterbury made the final second season as well. In 4 seasons there has only been two Waitak vs Auckland final...
What teams have gone to the O-League from the NZFC? Am I right in thinking it is only Auckland and Waitakere?
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TW was always doomed to fail as it was based on a silly concept, clubs joining together for the good of all, yeah like that has ever worked before in NZ football.
The clubs that make up TW either wont/cant contribute the required about of $$$ so it all turns to custard. The franchise should have gone to one properly funded organisation to start with than maybe we could have been up with the Waitakere's and ACFC's from year 1.
A dog with a bone :)
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TW was always doomed to fail as it was based on a silly concept, clubs joining together for the good of all, yeah like that has ever worked before in NZ football.
Waitakere United.
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Perhaps one with the stupidest name in christendom ?
I think they would have struggled to get the crowds even TW get, too much history being aligned to a single winter club.
I think they would have struggled to get the crowds even TW get, too much history being aligned to a single winter club.
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What teams have gone to the O-League from the NZFC? Am I right in thinking it is only Auckland and Waitakere?
Yes, this is only the 3rd O-League so Auckland and Waitakere out of V3, and V4 as top two in the league (sort of - Waitakere were top after 7 rounds the first season so got in).
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TW was always doomed to fail as it was based on a silly concept, clubs joining together for the good of all, yeah like that has ever worked before in NZ football.
The clubs that make up TW either wont/cant contribute the required about of $$$ so it all turns to custard. The franchise should have gone to one properly funded organisation to start with than maybe we could have been up with the Waitakere's and ACFC's from year 1.
seemed like a good idea at the time 
would have had the games out at Porirua otherwise
Founder
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TW was always doomed to fail as it was based on a silly concept, clubs joining together for the good of all, yeah like that has ever worked before in NZ football.
The clubs that make up TW either wont/cant contribute the required about of $$$ so it all turns to custard. The franchise should have gone to one properly funded organisation to start with than maybe we could have been up with the Waitakere's and ACFC's from year 1.
seemed like a good idea at the time
would have had the games out at Porirua otherwise
but isn't that going to happen now anyway?
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TW was always doomed to fail as it was based on a silly concept, clubs joining together for the good of all, yeah like that has ever worked before in NZ football.
The clubs that make up TW either wont/cant contribute the required about of $$$ so it all turns to custard. The franchise should have gone to one properly funded organisation to start with than maybe we could have been up with the Waitakere's and ACFC's from year 1.
seemed like a good idea at the time
would have had the games out at Porirua otherwise
but isn't that going to happen now anyway?
who knows. No money will be coming from the club base though
Founder
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I've got plenty to say about this shambles but to be honest for now I'm too f**king depressed to be bothered!
We Still Love You Colin We Do!
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All this talk about money brings back thoughts of the 90s.
One problem I think NZ has always had is average players who think the world of themselves, being pirates (read journeymen) to many of the winter and summer clubs in NZ. I can think of about 30 from the last 13 years straight off the top of my head and only one of them has ever worn the silver fern at senior level.
Supporter world's best and worst football teams: Waikato/WaiBop, Kingz, Knights, Phoenix, The Argyle, The Whites & the All Whites
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waitak and auckland have kind of turned it into having to be semi-pro to be competitive though. So thats what it is.
And there in may lie some of the problem, Waitak & Auckland are cashed up by going to the club world champs, they have to pull in overseas players in the hope of being competitive there (which I don't blame them for), pay them reasonably well and also incentivise the better NZ based players to leave their current teams and come and play for them so they (Waitak & Auckland) have a chance of not being humiliated.
To hold on to their players the other teams try and match the player payments leading to a vicious circle of higher spending, players thinking they are worth more than they actually are, demanding higher fees leading to team budget blowouts.
Thisi is obviously all to the detriment of the league as a whole.
Then the question (asked half in jest) becomes is the desire to compete in the O-league and world club champs a detriment to NZ football?
Thats a pretty warped question though. Because the answer based on everything is yes...but the fact is that its the O-League/CWC money also helps the NZFC become a better competition. Id suggest the allocation of the prizemoney from the CWC is the problem,as the 2 big clubs get most of it,and everything happens as exactly in your post
That's a pretty good summary of it if you ask me. Anybody with two brain cells to rub together knew the formula to distribute the CWC prize money was f**ked from the very start and would lead to exactly the situation we have now - the first couple of NZFC franchises to get to the CWC get cashed up to the max and are therefore first in line to go back to the trough for another feed. The rest are left fighting a losing battle to keep up.
The argument that Auckland City and Waitakere are doing anything fundamentally better or different to the other franchises simply isn't true. Fair play to them though - they got their hands on the CWC prize money first. But that's all. I also don't remember ACFC or Waitakere ever acknowledging that their own good fortune could be ultimately at the expense of the "good of the game". Something they may come to regret when they are playing in a two team NZFC by themselves.
The argument that the Phoenix has had anything to do with Team Wellington's current situation is also pretty weak. Team Wellington's attendances have always been pretty consistent and if anything the Phoenix have increased the amount of media coverage for football in Wellington.
The big problem for TW is the reliance on gaming trust funding, which is not just harder to get but also harder to get very far in advance - the trusts are far more reluctant to commit themselves to funding beyond the short term because they are much less confident about what's coming in. Although TW could quite possibly end up getting around the same sort of money this season that they've had in past seasons they don't know that yet, so the security isn't there to say "yes, we're in for a whole season".
TW's member clubs were also only ever expected to fund the franchise through a start-up phase until it became a viable stand-along proposition. They are under pressure from their own members to keep costs down and understandably reluctant to try to find more money for TW.
None of this has much to do with the Phoenix, more to do with the economy (unless the Phoenix are now to blame for the economy happyted?).
There's a bunch of other things going on as well but the distribution of the CWC prize money is the big problem for me.
So happyted - is there any chance that after all your criticism of the Phoenix for "destroying the game in NZ" your beloved ACFC will now show us all the way and pull together with Waitakere for the "good of the game" by:
1) reinvesting some of their cash reserves in stabilising the league for one more season and;
2) lobbying NZF to change the formula for distributing CWC prize money so that either;
2a) all franchises get a roughly equal share or;
2b) NZF retain the bulk of the CWC prize money and invest it in developing the league, or at least reducing the franchise entry fee.
Help us Obi-happyted, you're our only hope.
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You have to be careful not to lay blame on auckland and waitakere though.
Fact is,every other club overspent. Thats the first blame,the clubs themselves.
The second is NZF,in its allocation of the CWC,which almost forced the hands of other clubs to have to overspend to remain competitive in the league.
There is no way you can blame the big 2 clubs for spending money that they earnt,within their means,unlike the rest of the competition
Allegedly
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All this talk about money brings back thoughts of the 90s.
One problem I think NZ has always had is average players who think the world of themselves, being pirates (read journeymen) to many of the winter and summer clubs in NZ. I can think of about 30 from the last 13 years straight off the top of my head and only one of them has ever worn the silver fern at senior level.
Please, do name them...
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waitak and auckland have kind of turned it into having to be semi-pro to be competitive though. So thats what it is.
And there in may lie some of the problem, Waitak & Auckland are cashed up by going to the club world champs, they have to pull in overseas players in the hope of being competitive there (which I don't blame them for), pay them reasonably well and also incentivise the better NZ based players to leave their current teams and come and play for them...
That's a pretty good summary of it if you ask me. Anybody with two brain cells to rub together knew the formula to distribute the CWC prize money was f**ked from the very start and would lead to exactly the situation we have now - the first couple of NZFC franchises to get to the CWC get cashed up to the max and are therefore first in line to go back to the trough for another feed. The rest are left fighting a losing battle to keep up.
As an aside, I wonder if I'm the only one who read this and immediately thought of the big 4 in English football and the European Champions League. Same situation, different scale, but NZ has a far lower margin of error.
Anyway, what can we do, if anything, to help keep TW afloat?
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Surpluses??
Id even beleive Rex D when he says waitak are digging deep..I know ACFC are...what ever cash comes in goes out real quick Dont look in envy at the north...were at the top thru people working bloody hard for very little...and not waiting till 4 weeks before the season starts to realise its all turned to cactus.
You are on a different planet ...Every year the same people dig deep, every year they get shat on ...by muppets who whine about every thing and do bugger all ...ooooh it makes me cross
And Ill never donate blood again they only give you biscuits 
not cash or a playstation!
not cash or a playstation!
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From what I've heard there will be a team from both Wellington and Waikato.
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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Uncleoz, when two teams may not make the season, how can people not be envious?
Normo's coming home
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