National League / OCL

Structure of football comps in NZ - your

222 replies · 20,051 views
over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
^^ I also work for SKY tv FACT.
See you at the next home game hey?.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I've been playing around in the Peak District for the last month thus away from the net.  Has there been any more ideas etc raised around this issue back home in the regional meetings?
Supporter world's best and worst football teams: Waikato/WaiBop, Kingz, Knights, Phoenix, The Argyle, The Whites & the All Whites

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
I'm with Jag re the Chatham Cup but I'm completely with you on the key thread of your post which is that player payments need to be more forcefully discouraged.


+1

Three for me, and two for them.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yep.
Install the IRD as auditors of the NFC. Any team making payments to any players should be kicked out. Biggest bug bear in NZ football. We (Mainland Football) have the farcical situation of an 8 team Premier league voting for 2 rounds (14 games only) instead of 3 this season because teams who were paying players could not afford to travel to Nelson twice in the season. Absolutely ludicrous.

What's sight without sound? Love without peace? Copulation without conception?

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Clubs do need to live within their means but wont top players just f**k off and do something else rather than play for free?
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Everton FC wrote:
Clubs do need to live within their means but wont top players just f**k off and do something else rather than play for free?
 
Yeah you've put it better.  Clubs need to live within their means, and if that means some top players quit playing because they can't collect cash then so be it.
 
That Mainland situation is embarrassing for that part of the country, and for football more generally.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Well it's getting harder without some of the Charity trust funding . . . .
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Take a look at the English situation.
They thought the use of imports would kill the national game there, and yet they are one of the first to qualify for next years world cup finals. Their players are playing and training with the best on a regular basis and this has lifted the ability of their better players.
We need to do the same here, a national league is a must. Given our geographical spread it is essential that travel costs must be met first before any payments can be made to players. A travel equalisation scheme therefore is a must to ensure we get the best players involved, not player payments. Player payments can only come once attendances at games make it feasible.
The biggest difference to the standard of play will be made by top players playing as often as possible against other top players. NZ Football need to start putting money back into the NZFC, not coaches, cars, cellphones, incopetent federation set ups  and pointless reviews. Why do you have to have a review before you decide you're heading in the wrong direction? Who goes the wrong way up a one way street then holds a committee meeting before deciding what to do next? And get out of player development. This should not be a brief of NZ Football. They need to focus on providing platforms, such as the NZFC and National age group tournaments, for players to perform in. When was the last time NZ performed well internationally? When clubs were responsible for developing players to perform in decent and meaningful NZF structured leagues and tournaments!
The big mistake that NZF made after '82 was to try and achieve too much. Too many paid coaches and others all looking to get on the gravy train, to many overseas trips etc. etc. They should have narrowed their focus and concentrated on ensuring that the National League remained viable, because that competition was the foundation of our success, much like the A League is doing for Australia currently. Clubs, rather than paying players, need to start looking to import some as well, the real secret of our success in '82. Like England and Australia, this would help to raise our standards.
 
 

What's sight without sound? Love without peace? Copulation without conception?

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
NZFC does have travel equalisation.  Travel costs are included in entry fee.
 
Disagree that the A-League is driving australian development.  The australian national has started achieveing once they got in high quality coaches.  The best australian side still filled with non-A-league players, and in fact very few who have played much in Australia at all.
 
Was the '82 crop of players really anything to do with the clubs or just a unique situation with a talented crop of players in the right place at the right time (very few who came through the NZ system remember)?  Got to forget '82 and move forward.  Clubs don't have the resources to develop players, should either be with NZFC sides or the national body.
 
Surprised that you are referring to England as a model when specific regulation is being introduced in an attempt to reduce the amount of foreign players with the home grown rule, and there are constant calls that influx of foreign players has reduced the pool of talented englishmen and is blocking the path to the top for many young english players.
james dean2009-09-23 23:21:03

Normo's coming home

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Ronaldoknow wrote:
When was the last time NZ performed well internationally? When clubs were responsible for developing players to perform in decent and meaningful NZF structured leagues and tournaments!
 
What era are you referring to here?

Normo's coming home

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:
Ronaldoknow wrote:
When was the last time NZ performed well internationally? When clubs were responsible for developing players to perform in decent and meaningful NZF structured leagues and tournaments!
 
What era are you referring to here?
 
Primarily mid to late '70's through to  '82.
Although there have been ebbs and flows since then, looks like we are on the way back up now (as shown by our international ranking) in spite of the toing and froing with National Director's of Football, numerous reviews etc.
I feel that the biggest drawback to the game here is the lack of a recognised national league. Don't think the summer league has helped either. I would prefer to see every club that plays in the Norhtern, Central and Southern winter (I know it doesn't exist at the moment) Leagues committed to playing in the National League at the end of the regional comps if they came in the top 2 or 3, National round running from now until the middle/end of December culminating in a grand final and funded by NZ Football.
Talk of abandoning the annual National Federation age group tournament in Napier does nothing for my confidence in the ability of NZ Football to sort it out though.

What's sight without sound? Love without peace? Copulation without conception?

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:
NZFC does have travel equalisation.  Travel costs are included in entry fee.
Sorry knew that just forgot it.
 
Disagree that the A-League is driving australian development.  The australian national has started achieveing once they got in high quality coaches.  The best australian side still filled with non-A-league players, and in fact very few who have played much in Australia at all.
I wasn't just meaning development of the players but the sport overall. Media coverage, game attendance etc. is all part of the package.
 
Was the '82 crop of players really anything to do with the clubs or just a unique situation with a talented crop of players in the right place at the right time (very few who came through the NZ system remember)?  Got to forget '82 and move forward.  Clubs don't have the resources to develop players, should either be with NZFC sides or the national body.
Disagree here, I believe clubs do have the resources (and if they don't it is NZ Footballs responsibility to ensure they get them). NZF and Federations should be all about developing coaches and clubs, not players! The development of high quality players will come about through well structured, resourced and supported clubs
 
Surprised that you are referring to England as a model when specific regulation is being introduced in an attempt to reduce the amount of foreign players with the home grown rule, and there are constant calls that influx of foreign players has reduced the pool of talented englishmen and is blocking the path to the top for many young english players.
Yea I read that. Paradoxical situation. The presence of foreign players has improved the ability of the better local players but highlighted the fact that there are fewer of them around. Still no reason to impose a quota. Typical poms, want the best competition in the world but get snotty when it turns out they need foreign players to provide the quality. Imperialistic attitude, thought they might have gotten over it by now.

What's sight without sound? Love without peace? Copulation without conception?

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I feel a return to a club league would be a bullet in the head for the game here, it�s so old fashioned, and harks back to our desire to be like England, basically the things wrong with our game.

I disagree with the no payment of players. You just won�t attract players, you have to remember that huge amounts of time ppl put into playing national league football. ie you will train Monday through Thursday, and travel all weekend and never have the chance to go out and enjoy the summer months. The key and it was mentioned earlier is that the clubs must live within their means. And all the other things must be taken care of before a player�s budget is allocated.

 

What I think we need instead is more power handed to the franchises and a NZF directive to treat the NZFC as a more professional league. There is money out there we are just not that good at getting it (I know its not easy). I know it�s around because I know people who raise thousands for social league teams. These franchises must be run as businesses and as such we need to introduce better business standards. There should be a central Marketing guru that each club pays 1/8th of their wage or it could be a NZF position, and they are tasked with building the NZFC brand as well as the various Team brands.

 

When we front up to tournaments saying blah blah we come from a small league all amateur etc, it is very harmful to our brand. And its not true, as we all know there is considerable amounts of money changing hands at the Auckland clubs.

 

In terms of marketing there are so many things you could do, and they would vary wildly be franchise I would imagine.

 

Another point is that having National league players play in the winter league hurts the NZFC, How many times do you see a good NZFC player playing average in winter football, for any number of reason mostly id imaging due to lack of interest, crap players around them, poor facilities. Then you get people saying how bad a player they are and start bagging their local NZFC side. There are just too many people around with chips on their shoulders regarding national league football and this just adds to the problem.

 

 

The other thing is Empire building, whole other post. But basically I would love to see people stop trying to reinvent the wheel and spend some of the effort getting involved at you national league club. We need support from all the clubs in NZ, all of whom have juniors to connect to and families to raise money from. Look at the Canty UTD model where every player in the region pays a levy to ensure that pathway. We should build on these types of things. Every football person should own the top flight in this country and have some affiliation to their local team(this is where marketing comes in)  

 
This rant could go on all day but these are just some points that came into my head. 
The Thinker2009-11-04 17:04:12
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
THINKER WHAT PLANET ARE YOU ON!!!
 
WE MOST DEFINITELY SHOULD RETURN TO A CLUB NATIONAL LEAGUE WITH PROMOTION RELEGATION FROM REGIONAL LEAGUES
iTS NOT JUST ENGLAND  99% OF COUNTRIES THROUGHOUT THE WORLD OPERATE THIS WAY.
i THINK YOU,RE FLATTERING YOURSELF WITH THAT NAME
THOUGHTS THAT CAME IN TO YOUR HEAD!!!t
 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'm afraid Turner that you're going to have to do a lot better than that to contribute to this debate
 
One question I have is should NZFC franchises be considered clubs in their own right - i.e. playing for a winter club is a transfer and fixtures or other competition such as chatham cup could see them play against each other, or as more of a representative team, the best players in the region.  Right now we're somewhere in the middle which I'm not sure is necessarily a good thing.
 
Also, with crowds being so poor is there any real need to play the NZFC in Summer?
 
Just to touch on the point someone raised above that we need to pay players to keep them playing, I don't think the issue is with paying players per se, it is with the ridiculous situation where football at little more than a social level sees people being handsomely rewarded.  95% of people play because they love it, I don't see why everyone should be paid significant amounts because of the other 5%.  I don't understand why anyone should be paid anything below NZFC level other than perhaps some boots and petrol money if you travel.  This is a huge issue waiting to explode with gaming money provided on the basis that this is amateur sport.
james dean2009-11-07 06:38:11

Normo's coming home

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Let me ask everyone a simple question as an interested observer
Could the game exist without clubs? There of course is only one answer no it couldn't
 
Yet the NZFA have treated the clubs shabbily -they have disempowered the clubs and tried to introduce a regional competition - the summer league.
Not only is it an absolute failure but its been an enormous waste of money and time- soccer is not a summer game especially in NZ
Even full time pro's couldn't play all year round never mind amateurs.
 
Some things to consider- why keep on about player payments make a  simple rule that clubs can only pay up to 40% of their turnover on players and must finish the season with their accounts in the "black" Problem solved - if they want to pay more increase their solvency -it's a "win win"
 
Re- form  the winter leagues with pathways for the clubs to go right to the top- promotion and relegation play off series for all levels at the end of the season which like in the Uk would generate a lot of interest and excitement( I know UK is a bigger fish but even at conference level the interest is huge)
Crowds don't go to matches as of right - if we want to get spectators in we have to produce a better product,the clubs should be motivated to increase club senior and junior membership and radically improve clubrooms and club facilities so that families feel comfortable be in them and want to be part of  the club.
Stop trying to tell the clubs what to do  -rather introduce   systems that empower them and provide a catalyst for their growth.
Funny enough there is a huge vacuum that has been left by other sports who've gone the elite regional way especially Rugby there grass roots clubs are struggling
If we got it together in 5 years soccer could really be top of the heap BUT and it's a big But we need real leadership from the top and unless there are radical changes we'll just keep wallowing in mediocrity.
Just imagine if we had a National League with 12 really well run clubs underpinned by 3 regional leagues at least 2 divisions of vibrant ambitious clubs striving to get to that top league meeting the successful club criteria .On top of that the Chatham Cup ,The regional league cup and the Oceania club championship.!!NZ football could really go places!!
 Its about time we got the clubs together and forced the issue!!  
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I am starting to wonder if bringing back SuperClub isn't where we are heading.
 
But, those of you who harp on the "clubs are where it's at" argument, don't forget that the reason we got out of a club-based national league is because it was bankcrupting clubs.  Clubs were paying stupid money to try and win promotion to a competition that had no financial reward anyway.
 
Meanwhile facilities and youth development suffered.
 
That said I think the Football League is perhaps the model we should look to.  Not the Premiership which is wrestling with the same issues that New Zealand football had to deal with (clubs spending beyond their means) but the leagues below that where strict points penalties apply for financial irregularities.
 
A strong, enforced, clear, set of constraints on clubs might provide the pathway to build a long term, viable, national league structure.
 
 

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy the clubs have got to take the game back.
if you are part of a federation you have impotent voting rights - its unbelievable that like "battered wives" the clubs accept the status quo.
The federations and the NZFA  use business speak like "stakeholders" to describe the clubs - stakeholders in olden days also had no rights they were the intermediaries who held the money when a bet was put on a horse race between two parties!!!!
Why use the word constraint why not use constructive empowerment that rewards clubs who develop "good practice"  and have rules that don't allow excesses .
Get consensus and agreement from the clubs on the way forward and let them get on with it
.I agree with RoBaynham on those points
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
turner wrote:
THINKER WHAT PLANET ARE YOU ON!!!
 
WE MOST DEFINITELY SHOULD RETURN TO A CLUB NATIONAL LEAGUE WITH PROMOTION RELEGATION FROM REGIONAL LEAGUES
iTS NOT JUST ENGLAND  99% OF COUNTRIES THROUGHOUT THE WORLD OPERATE THIS WAY.
i THINK YOU,RE FLATTERING YOURSELF WITH THAT NAME
THOUGHTS THAT CAME IN TO YOUR HEAD!!!t
 

Pfft, insults and illogical and false arguments. Footballs on the up in this country and people like you wont stand in our way.

Despite the fact that your clearly not worth the time of day, look at my avatar its just a joke name.
 
99% of the world, lets look at markets where football occupies a similar level of popularity to NZ, and struggles with numbers, and money. USA and Australia. Could you just tell me what system they have in place, promotion/relegation?
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I have been thinking of that this weekend actually, 3 x Auckland sides, 1 Waikato, 1 Central (New Plymouth/ Manawatu), 1 Hawkes Bay, 2 Wellington and a couple from the Sth Island would make an interesting league....club based so the clubs that are keen to develop can.
 
Played in Winter so that these clubs can run as a seperate entity and enter the Chatham cup and play the other clubs in the regional leagues so a top "club" can be found.
 
Just thoughts, i know my club in the Waikato would be interested in this and would make a bigger carrot for the club to draw better players into it....
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
fat controllor wrote:
I have been thinking of that this weekend actually, 3 x Auckland sides, 1 Waikato, 1 Central (New Plymouth/ Manawatu), 1 Hawkes Bay, 2 Wellington and a couple from the Sth Island would make an interesting league....club based so the clubs that are keen to develop can.
 
Played in Winter so that these clubs can run as a seperate entity and enter the Chatham cup and play the other clubs in the regional leagues so a top "club" can be found.
 
Just thoughts, i know my club in the Waikato would be interested in this and would make a bigger carrot for the club to draw better players into it....


Good idea, but also being from the Waikato, I hate the way they Wanderers or Melville head each other off (I presume that you support one or the other).  The way those two have historically used player payments as well as the embitterment between them, made me very happy the the old NZS decided on the franchise format and Waikato FC to represent the whole region, inc. places like Ngaruawahia, Morrinsville and Cambridge.  I do belive that there should be a BOP team and a side from Gisbourne too.

There is simply not enough interest and money for NZ Football to continue the Euro model, the Aussie, American model is the best fro NZ. 

Even non league footie in the UK gets bigger crowds then I've even seen in Club/Franchise football in NZ; take the town of Matlock, about 20,000 people, gets about 1-2 thousand at a game, I think some rugby provinces would love those kinds of crowds, let alone football.

I personally do not like the idea that Waitak Utd=Waitak City and Akl City= Central. 

Those two teams (or 4 teams you might say), have had a lot of coin come in and its all been spent on players.  I could be wrong but I don't think there hasn't been much development at Kiwitea St in recent times and Waitakere has never developed the stadia that it promised when it won its franchise.

This would be the same problem but amplified at club level with fans supporting their respective teams in even lower numbers due to split allegiances.  I would maybe watch Melville play but WOULD NEVER watch Wanderers... but have always been a staunch Hamilton, Waikato United and Waikato FC fan...

catch my drift.
disco_mart2009-11-17 00:01:29
Supporter world's best and worst football teams: Waikato/WaiBop, Kingz, Knights, Phoenix, The Argyle, The Whites & the All Whites

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
"99% of the world, lets look at markets where football occupies a similar level of popularity to NZ, and struggles with numbers, and money. USA and Australia. Could you just tell me what system they have in place, promotion/relegation? "
Thinker without taking sides do you think that the massive land masses involved with USA/Aussie might have something to do with it!
Maybe Wales ,Ireland,Norway,Chile,Belgium countries of similar size might be better comparisons.
You might like to give that some thought!
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Isn't the biggest problem with the NZFC that they've attempted to cover the coutnry regionally rather than favouring football strength and population?  Why does Auckland only have two teams?  Is there really the need for a side in Dunedin?
 
We all talk about "giving the game back to the clubs", wouldn't a compromise be to give the game back to the franchises, i.e. let the franchises run the NZFC?
 
Personally I can't see one single advantage of reverting to a club based national league.  Even if there is promotion/relegation how would that work to improve standards?  The whole of the 90s were some of the worst times for NZF, coincidentally when we had all of these club national leagues.
 
Surely there just aren't enough resources for all ambitious clusb to develop the infrastructure needed throughout the country.  NZFC franchises essentially pool resources meaning the best players do get to use the best facilities.
 
Additionally, what about the O-League?  COuld Miramar or Hamilton or whatever actually compete in the O-League or god forbid, the CWC?
james dean2009-11-21 03:36:20

Normo's coming home

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:
Isn't the biggest problem with the NZFC that they've attempted to cover the coutnry regionally rather than favouring football strength and population?  Why does Auckland only have two teams?  Is there really the need for a side in Dunedin?
 
We all talk about "giving the game back to the clubs", wouldn't a compromise be to give the game back to the franchises, i.e. let the franchises run the NZFC?
 
Personally I can't see one single advantage of reverting to a club based national league.  Even if there is promotion/relegation how would that work to improve standards?  The whole of the 90s were some of the worst times for NZF, coincidentally when we had all of these club national leagues.
 
Surely there just aren't enough resources for all ambitious clusb to develop the infrastructure needed throughout the country.  NZFC franchises essentially pool resources meaning the best players do get to use the best facilities.
 
Additionally, what about the O-League?  COuld Miramar or Hamilton or whatever actually compete in the O-League or god forbid, the CWC?


JD I think the reason there are still calls for a return to club based national league is that the NZFC hasn't delivered on that promise of pooled resources and best facilities.

Waikato playing at Ngaruawahia for example.  Sure TW play at Newtown Park but it's no better than Davey F or Bell Park and worse than Endeavour.  They train at Rongotai College ffs!

And they struggle for volunteers to run the thing.

There are good football reasons for a franchise system, but the NZFC needs to deliver on those promises of a superior competition in all respects before people will stop harking back to Superclub.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I guess Superclub would be the way to go from my humble opine, and i wouldnt be thinking the Waikato team would be based at Ngaruawahia, more like Gower Park
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Isn't the biggest problem with the NZFC that they've attempted to cover the coutnry regionally rather than favouring football strength and population?  Why does Auckland only have two teams?  Is there really the need for a side in Dunedin?
 
We all talk about "giving the game back to the clubs", wouldn't a compromise be to give the game back to the franchises, i.e. let the franchises run the NZFC?
 
Personally I can't see one single advantage of reverting to a club based national league.  Even if there is promotion/relegation how would that work to improve standards?  The whole of the 90s were some of the worst times for NZF, coincidentally when we had all of these club national leagues.But the best performing teams in the NZFC are club based  not provincial based!!! Auckland  Waitakere and Hawkes Bay and the 90,s were poor because the NZFA were abysmal with CEO,s coming and going and then we had Bob Pattersonand Kevin Stratful  who couldn,t run a piss up in a brewery .The clubs and the game in the 90's needed leadership and instead we got the federation structure we,ve got now 
Surely there just aren't enough resources for all ambitious clusb to develop the infrastructure needed throughout the country.  That is exactly what we do need we need well organised super clubs throughout the country and yes there are the resources its just that our national body doesn't know how to utilise and develop them.The NZFA rip off the clubs with their fees and make money out of the clubs on the travel budget,the organisation of the league is crap .The crowds are woeful I do agree with you that there should be 3 teams in Auckland and really 2 in the greater Wellington district .Thats why the club playoff system is best cos the best rise to the top. IF THE NZFA ANNOUNCED THAT IN !" MONTHS TIME THEY WOULD BE RETURNING TO A CLUB BASED LEAGUE THERE WOULD BE NO SHORTAGE OF CLUBS VYING TO GET IN!!
NZFC franchises essentially pool resources meaning the best players do get to use the best facilities.No they don't because they don't have a real identity and most are struggling for money.You've obviously not been closely involved at that level and there are loads of players in Auckland not playing who would walk in to provincial teams
 
Additionally, what about the O-League?  COuld Miramar or Hamilton or whatever actually compete in the O-League or god forbid, the CWC?
Well auckland City and Waitakere do and they are club based

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think Melville United in the Waikato have the right thinking around this sort of plan, get the council on board like they did for the NL Premiership final and you have the right formula
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
turner wrote:
.The crowds are woeful I do agree with you that there should be 3 teams in Auckland and really 2 in the greater Wellington district .


Don't agree with the rest but I'll just pick up on this.

There are certainly not two teams' worth of NZFC-quality talent in Wellington.

If there were two teams from Wellington then the standard of the competition would be lower.  Fact.

Which is why the franchise system produces a higher quality football league.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think you are missing the point Smithy
With the population base in Wellington and including Hutt Valley and Mana
its an inditement that there isn't
There used to be wellington City,WDU, and Stop out all in the National League  at the same time .City weren't the best but the other 2 were good.if the game has moved forward as we are told why is that not happening.All three areas had their own junior development system hence I say  just introducing a club system in isolation is not enough the whole system needs revamping.
Consider Smithy that the league had eventually 12 teams and no lottery funding so they raised their own cash so with access  to extra cash,even though restricted due to credit crunch,it could be even better but the NZFA don,t know how to do it.The club model of course has to be radically changed. If there were two teams from Wellington then the standard of the competition would be lower.  Fact.Which is why the franchise system produces a higher quality football league. If you look at the Wellington team there are nearly as many players imported from outside the region than produced inside it!! The system is wrong and isn,t working!!
 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
and the quality of the league is going backwards surely you can see that Smithy!!
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
but problems with the NZFC aren't themselves an argument for going back to a club based league. exactly the same problems are there that lead to the formation of the NZFC still exist and no-one is saying how those problems would be solved which is the actual issue

surely the first thing that would happen if we went back to a club league is that everyone goes back to their old clubs, and suddenly you have 2 or 3 NZFC qualit players in every team.james dean2009-11-21 23:49:00

Normo's coming home

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Good points James and the thing will take building so any club with ambition can play their way to the top. But to start top 3 clubs in north/central region and top 2 southern clubs to be promoted at the end of next season to play the following season.
Announce it now and you'll see the clubs line up and there is time for them to get it together .Promotion relegation play offs at the end of each season for all leagues during a special play off long weekend that will be exciting and generate interest.Let the clubs organise their own travel cos they'll do it cheaper than the NZFA.
Set up an IT site clubs organise their own vids of  national league games .
 
There are players out there we need better coaches.Chris Wood was playing for St Pauls 1st x1 24 months ago and has now played in the Prem League so theres lots of players out there of all ages who need bringing on.Remember Siggy was playing for Canterbury and going nowhere till Auckland City picked him up and now he's full time and going to the world cup .
So we've got to raise the standards all round.provincial teams are not the answer in Auckland there are players sitting doing nothing who would walk in to Otago/Canterbury /Hawkes Bay.I could go on and on about the positive things we could do but NZ soccer has been neutered by an administration system thats stops excellence and ambition!  
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ronbaynham wrote:
"99% of the world, lets look at markets where football occupies a similar level of popularity to NZ, and struggles with numbers, and money. USA and Australia. Could you just tell me what system they have in place, promotion/relegation? "
Thinker without taking sides do you think that the massive land masses involved with USA/Aussie might have something to do with it!
Maybe Wales ,Ireland,Norway,Chile,Belgium countries of similar size might be better comparisons.
You might like to give that some thought!
 
 
Your comparing the NZ football landscape to Norway, Chile and Belgium is a bit odd.
Wales and Ireland are actually good examples, except, they have an advantage over New Zeland in that any half decent player can just get themselves over to England without any major issues. Also I fail to see how we should use Wales and Ireland as models for success, do you want NZ to be like Wales? NZ has more international success. Ireland debatable too. Wales also have teams in the Football leagues in England. Ireland has a poorly supported and club league (Bar a few clubs), and Wales has an even more poorly supported league.  
 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
NZ has more international success. Ireland debatable too. Wales group in the World Cup included Germany,Finland and Russia similar to Fiji and Bharain I suppose!!!Wales have reached the quarter final of the World cup and quarter final of the European Cup.o who's record is better!!
The Welsh league has been going for over 9 years now and is established and has its own Semi Pro Representative team.Its pro active and solvent!!
They have an advantage over New Zeland in that any half decent player can just get themselves over to England without any major issues and our half decent players can get over to Aussie without major issues!!!
Wales also have teams in the Football leagues in England and we,ve got the Phoenix in Aussie .Think before you comment  thinker!!!.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Anyway, back on topic.  Can someone who is pro the club based league explain how they see it working and maybe set out what they see as the advantages over the NZFC?

Normo's coming home

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
James I,ve been off the forum for a bit but I,ll try and answer you
1.The NZFA should introduce a Quality club accreditation scheme by establishing what a good nz club should look like
a.They must be financially well run with a realistic  long term financial model that is audited by the NZFA
b.The club should be a hub for local development by coaching in at least 2 senior schools and the primary schools that feeds these secondary schools.Lottery funding could be used to initially fund this  but this should lead on to a user pays system (before you say this won,t work check some of the private providers) more importantly it means coaches can work with kids allied to the school day so more practice time and the schools have facilities and equipment ,free of charge , to be used.
c.The NZFA has to ensure that the coaching at the clubs at all levels must be massively improved the NZFA coach education scheme has got to realise that the quality of coaching is paramount if the game is to move on.The Aussies have imported top Dutch Coach Educators we,ve got John Herdman nice lad but enough said.
d.Clubrooms and facilities have to be improved and radically modernised so that they are attractive to be in, more importantly the clubrooms have to be multi purpose so that they can be used during the day time from early morning to 3 or 4 pm in the afternoon instead of laying empty so providing revenue for the clubs maybe day care centres,outreach centres for local polytechnics,and many innovative ideas that I haven,t thought of. 
e.Clubs have to be pro active and really work hard on increasing club membership and support the obvious way is to play good football.
f.Instead of the NZFA raping the clubs for money they should reduce fees for excellence in running the clubs and more money should flow down instead of paying exorbitant fees for crap admin the clubs would for example save money on the travel budget .
g Play in winter  so that we can have a real promotion relegation system throughout all the leagues with incentives for clubs to attain top flight football.
h.The leagues National down to regional leagues must have a real emphasis on marketing and at least 2 marketing gurus involved full time to get the product out there and mtake advantage of the advertising and brand opportunities out there on the back of the All Whites
i The Junior regional rep programme has to be resurrected so more kids are involved in the programme ie in the wellington area there should be wellington ,Mana,Hutt Valley and Raumati district
j.Those aren,t the only ideas but its a start we,ve got a great opportunity to push the game forward but the clubs must take over the regional and national administration  at the moment they are dictated to by people who have no track record in the game.In Waikato we had a car cleaner as CEO and then an ex cricket secretary,the chairman of the association is a woman lawyer,nice lady who has no idea about the game.its chaos and a league who,s standard is going backwards year by year.
There James I,ve had a go for you
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ronbaynham wrote:
NZ has more international success. Ireland debatable too. Wales group in the World Cup included Germany,Finland and Russia similar to Fiji and Bharain I suppose!!!Wales have reached the quarter final of the World cup and quarter final of the European Cup.o who's record is better!!
The Welsh league has been going for over 9 years now and is established and has its own Semi Pro Representative team.Its pro active and solvent!!
They have an advantage over New Zeland in that any half decent player can just get themselves over to England without any major issues Wales also have teams in the Football leagues in England and we,ve got the Phoenix in Aussie .Think before you comment  thinker!!!.
 
I dont really find your arguments compelling, You have some good points, but render them meaningless when you sign off with an insult.
 
(Only thing I'll bother with) and our half decent players can get over to Aussie without major issues!!! and do what? Eng has 90 something professional academies, Aus has 8 or so and they are not open to Kiwis, or at least no Kiwis have ever been involved.
 
Anyway I will leave you to hanker after the success of Wales in the 50's, I will focus on a solution for New Zealand NOW.
 
Back to the discussion guys sorry
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Thinker take your point about my sarcasm apologies
Re aussie academies we can run our own academies its the full time level thats important
Mags is as good as the aussie ones but thats the sort of thing we,ve got to foster 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Is this the same MAGS that when shown on TV the other week had 13 year-olds throwing medicine balls around and no sign of a football anywhere ?

How's my driving? - Whine here

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