National League / OCL

Structure of football comps in NZ - your

222 replies · 20,051 views
over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Like it was ten years ago when we didn't have a national league because club self-interest had made in unviable ?

Ridiculous call.  What it needs is a slightly larger NZFC properly funded, run and assisted by NZ Football.
 
The reason for that was lack of leadership from NZFA and lack of direction for the clubs.The same thing happened in the UK in the early 90's but they re organised the football pyramid and introduced the premier league and gave leadership to the clubs and teams like Hull City and Stoke have played their way to the top.
You can't have football without clubs!! Instead of solving the club problem people like you re structure cos you don't know what you are doing.The real problem with NZ soccer is that the pommie/dutch/hungarian influx of players,administrators and players has comparitively dried up and we,ve now got home based administrators who haven't got the philosophy and the administrative understanding to develop the game.Van Hattum has been seduced by the FIFA joy ride.
By the way the football pyramid empowered non league clubs and the conference is stronger than ever.What we've done is like saying instead of having manutd/city/bolton/blackburn etc etc lets have a Lancashire team!! and join them all together.
Hard News you and Smithy should go on the board you both sound perfect for the NZ scene.By the way Smithy they didn't make a 5 figure profit you should take another look at the accounts and what was carried over. 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
What has the size of the planes got to do with it!! You've obviously never played at any level Smithy
Couped up in a cramped seat -a quick bus to the grounnd- rushing through the warm up now play in the Premier league of the country!!! in front of 300 spectators
Just as importantly the clubs could organise their travel more cost effectively than the NZFA but they are being ripped off by the nzfa to pay other in house costs.
for years we've had Glyn Taylor as the league organiser doing everything for one favourite organisation.
to begin with we had tv coverage which soon disappeared!!
we've gone from 21 to 14  league games in the season which is like a mini league and the 2 ronnies Smithy and Hard Head think its great!!!!! and there's nothing wrong
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ronbaynham wrote:
Like it was ten years ago when we didn't have a national league because club self-interest had made in unviable ?

Ridiculous call.  What it needs is a slightly larger NZFC properly funded, run and assisted by NZ Football.
 
The reason for that was lack of leadership from NZFA and lack of direction for the clubs.The same thing happened in the UK in the early 90's but they re organised the football pyramid and introduced the premier league and gave leadership to the clubs and teams like Hull City and Stoke have played their way to the top.
You can't have football without clubs!! Instead of solving the club problem people like you re structure cos you don't know what you are doing.The real problem with NZ soccer is that the pommie/dutch/hungarian influx of players,administrators and players has comparitively dried up and we,ve now got home based administrators who haven't got the philosophy and the administrative understanding to develop the game.Van Hattum has been seduced by the FIFA joy ride.
By the way the football pyramid empowered non league clubs and the conference is stronger than ever.What we've done is like saying instead of having manutd/city/bolton/blackburn etc etc lets have a Lancashire team!! and join them all together.
Hard News you and Smithy should go on the board you both sound perfect for the NZ scene.By the way Smithy they didn't make a 5 figure profit you should take another look at the accounts and what was carried over. 
 
Problem???? Thats the best thing that has ever happened to football in this country, Womans football world cups, and wins, all whites in WC, Getting points at confeds, U17's unbeaten in group and progressing, and now a decent performance at Club WC.
 
Yep your right this exodus of Poms has really ushered in dark days for NZ footbal.  
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
There is a difference between thinking there is nothing wrong and citing how it works in England.  IN England it's the dominant sport with 150 years as the dominant sport and billions of dollars behind it.

The moment you start making those comparisons your credibility and 'understanding' of the situation is hugely undermined.  Then you throw out the 'never played at any level' as though that is what is needed to have a credible view.  Hillarious.

You have Champagne plans on a home brew budget.

Yeah, there are problems with the NZFC, but to me and most others the solution is to fix the problems with the NZFC rather than role back the clock twenty years to when cigarette money funded a competition that is remembered with rose-tinted glasses and isn't viable in todays market.

I'd also suggest that personal insults (HUGELY unfunny ones) directed at the people that run this place is a pretty simple way to end your participation in any debates on here... just an observation.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ronbaynham wrote:
What has the size of the planes got to do with it!! You've obviously never played at any level Smithy
Couped up in a cramped seat -a quick bus to the grounnd- rushing through the warm up now play in the Premier league of the country!!! in front of 300 spectators
 
 
This is not exactly accurate, The usual day would be, Get to the airport at 8 or 9 am, fly an hour max, Jump on a bus, go get some lunch, relax for an hour then warm up.
 
when longer travel is required, teams stay the night before the game, napier for example.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
There is a difference between thinking there is nothing wrong and citing how it works in England.  IN England it's the dominant sport with 150 years as the dominant sport and billions of dollars behind it.

The moment you start making those comparisons your credibility and 'understanding' of the situation is hugely undermined.  Then you throw out the 'never played at any level' as though that is what is needed to have a credible view.  Hillarious.

You have Champagne plans on a home brew budget.

Yeah, there are problems with the NZFC, but to me and most others the solution is to fix the problems with the NZFC rather than role back the clock twenty years to when cigarette money funded a competition that is remembered with rose-tinted glasses and isn't viable in todays market.

I'd also suggest that personal insults (HUGELY unfunny ones) directed at the people that run this place is a pretty simple way to end your participation in any debates on here... just an observation.
 
Spot on HN, Especially the highlighted line.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
You can't have football without clubs!! Instead of solving the club problem people like you re structure cos you don't know what you are doing
 
ronbaynham
What is your argument for why the clubs cannot support their local NZFC team for the good of football in their region, not just their suburb.
The Thinker2009-12-16 10:01:44
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The Thinker wrote:
ronbaynham wrote:
What has the size of the planes got to do with it!! You've obviously never played at any level Smithy
Couped up in a cramped seat -a quick bus to the grounnd- rushing through the warm up now play in the Premier league of the country!!! in front of 300 spectators
 
 
This is not exactly accurate, The usual day would be, Get to the airport at 8 or 9 am, fly an hour max, Jump on a bus, go get some lunch, relax for an hour then warm up.
 
when longer travel is required, teams stay the night before the game, napier for example.
 
The bit about me not playing at any level is entirely accurate.
 
For the record, you actually get more room on a small plane (31 inch pitch and 78cm between seats on a Beechcraft) than you do on a jumbo jet (30 inches and 76cm on a 767-300). 
 
Massive red herring anyway.  Who cares what sort of plane they catch? 
 
Turkey.
Smithy2009-12-16 10:39:31

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
What you guys aren't realising is the bigger the plane the better the team, hence Bahrain qualifying for the world cup.

Edit: As for the lack of poms/europeans ruining the game because the dimwitted backwards antipodeans can't handle the task - - i've been involved in two clubs at senior level (not counting Massey which was a shambles due to a theiving bastard), one run mostly by poms, and one run entirely by NZ born and bred people.  Want to guess which is the most successful (on the field and off it) and well run club, with the most community involvement?

aitkenmike2009-12-16 15:11:31
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
aitkenmike wrote:
What you guys aren't realising is the bigger the plane the better the team, hence Bahrain qualifying for the world cup.

Edit: As for the lack of poms/europeans ruining the game because the dimwitted backwards antipodeans can't handle the task - - i've been involved in two clubs at senior level (not counting Massey which was a shambles due to a theiving bastard), one run mostly by poms, and one run entirely by NZ born and bred people.  Want to guess which is the most successful (on the field and off it) and well run club, with the most community involvement?

 
Prob both terrible

Founder

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
aitkenmike wrote:
What you guys aren't realising is the bigger the plane the better the team, hence Bahrain qualifying for the world cup.


 
Its not size that counts, its how you use it
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feverish wrote:
aitkenmike wrote:
What you guys aren't realising is the bigger the plane the better the team, hence Bahrain qualifying for the world cup.

Edit: As for the lack of poms/europeans ruining the game because the dimwitted backwards antipodeans can't handle the task - - i've been involved in two clubs at senior level (not counting Massey which was a shambles due to a theiving bastard), one run mostly by poms, and one run entirely by NZ born and bred people.  Want to guess which is the most successful (on the field and off it) and well run club, with the most community involvement?

 
Prob both terrible


There's degrees of terrible
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Wasn't the review meant to come out about now?

Founder

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
good input.
Can't see how the NZFC can remain amateur with all the WCC cash - then again they couldn't survive without the pokie $.

Founder

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Pay the clubs, not the players.



Yeah right.
E + R + O

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ronbaynham wrote:
Like it was ten years ago when we didn't have a national league because club self-interest had made in unviable ?

Ridiculous call.  What it needs is a slightly larger NZFC properly funded, run and assisted by NZ Football.
 
The reason for that was lack of leadership from NZFA and lack of direction for the clubs.The same thing happened in the UK in the early 90's but they re organised the football pyramid and introduced the premier league and gave leadership to the clubs and teams like Hull City and Stoke have played their way to the top.
You can't have football without clubs!! Instead of solving the club problem people like you re structure cos you don't know what you are doing.The real problem with NZ soccer is that the pommie/dutch/hungarian influx of players,administrators and players has comparitively dried up and we,ve now got home based administrators who haven't got the philosophy and the administrative understanding to develop the game. 
 
Pfffft.
It was the Poms, Dutch etc that tried to turn our local game into a small version of Europe that was holding our (local) game back by driving it to the brink of disaster. Now they are going from down here things have improved greatly. Just needed a few Kiwis to realise we are as good as them, if not better (instead of believing what they told us - we don't know what we are doing) to get things rolling. 

What's sight without sound? Love without peace? Copulation without conception?

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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

New Zealand Football: NZFC looks forward, younger after competitions review

December 22, 2009

AUCKLAND � The New Zealand Football Championship is set to increase its focus on youth development and could be expanded to 10 teams as early as next season, New Zealand Football (NZF) announced today as part of the outcomes of a wide-ranging competitions review.

Pledging $450,000 over the next three seasons to the national league and National Youth League, NZF reaffirmed its commitment to the franchise-based format of the NZFC, currently in its sixth year and basking in the shared glow of its champion Auckland City�s success at the FIFA Club World Cup and football�s overall resurgence.

On top of the three-year investment the governing body also set aside $50,000 each year for any New Zealand team winning the OFC Champions League to assist with their preparation for the FIFA Club World Cup.

It also outlined changes to the National Youth League, Chatham Cup, and Women�s Knockout Cup while deferring a decision on the National Women�s League until April to consider the best competition for elite women.

NZF Chief Executive Michael Glading stressed New Zealand�s national league would remain amateur and entry would be by invitation only but said applications would be considered from new teams wishing to join the league in the 2010/11 season, although the number of teams would be capped at 10.

�Retaining the league�s amateur status is crucial to the league�s sustainability and therefore its role in developing players and officials, something with which it has had a large degree of success in recent seasons,� Glading said.

�Ben Sigmund, Jeremy Brockie, Chris Wood and Marco Rojas have all made the jump to professional football from the NZFC in recent seasons, while Jacob Spoonley, Andy Barron, Jimmy Bannatyne and Aaron Scott have joined the likes of Ivan Vicelich in the All Whites, and we have two referees on the cusp of World Cup selection as well.

�We�ll continue to concentrate New Zealand�s top domestic football talent across a limited number of teams, but we feel the time may be right to open the door to new franchises that can compete on and off the field.�

All eight existing franchises, currently in the final year of three-year licenses, will be invited to reapply.

Glading said the Wellington Phoenix could apply to field a reserve/youth team in the NZFC despite facing unique obstacles as the only professional club in New Zealand.

�The door is still open for the Phoenix but there are still significant hurdles to jump in terms of accommodating a professional team in an amateur competition, not least in the eyes of FIFA.�

To gain entry to the league, and retain it on a two-year rolling contract, franchises will be required to meet a set of criteria related to performance, governance and facilities.

The exact details of criteria are yet to be finalised but the fielding of a youth development squad in the National Youth League and adhering to a new framework of financial reporting back to NZF will be cornerstones of any license.

There are major changes to the National Youth League and its integration with the national league, with the number of youth development players in national league squads to be increased to a minimum of five (currently four) and at least two youth players included in any NZFC matchday squad. Conversely, up to two overage players will be permitted to play for their club�s National Youth League side on any given matchday.

To bring the youth league in line with two-yearly FIFA World Cup cycles, the age limit (currently U-19) will alternate between seasons and be linked to eligibility for upcoming the next FIFA U-20 World Cup.

The Chatham Cup and Women�s Knockout Cup format will remain largely unchanged with cross-federation ties starting one round earlier in the South and lower North Islands. The Northern region is already integrated from round one. Both competitions will be restricted to teams affiliated to NZF and one of its seven member federations.

The competitions review, lead by a panel including former hockey Olympian Selwyn Maister and barrister Simon Jefferson, hit the road midway through the year engaging clubs, fans and federations up and down the country before presenting its recommendation to New Zealand Football.

Founder

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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
good stuff. And they are still open for the nix youth team too 


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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Assuming Nix youth would be one NZFC expansion team, where would the other be? South Auckland? Bay of Plenty?

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Three Auckland teams and two Welly teams in the comp would certainly be mouthwatering, although I'm not sure where an Eastern Suburbs team would play (do Fencibles have a good ground? I've never been there)

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think Auckland is the only real option for a 10th side (Nix Yuff being the 9th)
 
I'd say the North Shore is crying out for a team.  The Team Wellington model works well here, but I wonder whether clubs like North Shore, Glenfield and East Coast Bays would rally behind a new entity.  North Harbour Stadium could be a good venue as it's not used over the summer.

UniGoldenrods - Propping up Capital Football since 1994

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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
3rd Auckland team + Tauranga plz.
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Have to say disappointed bout the womens delay.  I reckon it should be a pre-requisite to having a mens team, you have to have a womens. Sound fair?
 
Otherwise, great to see NZF pumping some money into football.

I let my guitar speak for me

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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I would be happy with a North Shore team in there, and a Nix youth team

If we build it, they will come...

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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Robb wrote:
3rd Auckland team + Tauranga plz.


I agree, the BoP, NZs fastest growing region needs a side back in the top flight.
Supporter world's best and worst football teams: Waikato/WaiBop, Kingz, Knights, Phoenix, The Argyle, The Whites & the All Whites

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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I am happy that it seems my idea of making all footie in NZ amateur has been taken on board.  As the document extolls: NZF will have its own representative on the board, this I believe is to ensure that pokie WCC money isn't ending up in AKL, Waitak and Tedub player pockets.
Supporter world's best and worst football teams: Waikato/WaiBop, Kingz, Knights, Phoenix, The Argyle, The Whites & the All Whites

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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'm North Shore til i die
I'm North Shore til i die
I know I am I'm sure I am
I'm North Shore til i die. 
 
I'm not convinced we need a Phoenix team in the comp. Aren't all the NZFC teams a feeder to the Nix anyway?
 
I guess it would great for the players to have the chance to train etc with the pro's but personally I would prefer the NZFC to be a seperate competition in its own right.
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Good outcomes. Looking forward to it. Prob could have arrived at this in five minutes without a panel but still.

Founder

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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Southland might apply, i think, cause none of there or Queenstowns southern premierleague players get selected for otago

edit - They didnt select Sam Jasper even though he has played u16, u17 and u20 Nz rep. Hes also played for Canterbury United, Waitakere United and the NZ knights.tomrewi2009-12-23 10:00:56
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Whatever happens, i hope that the basic structure stays in place for sometime.... the regular dicking with competitions gets on my nerves
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
why have a nix team in ,when in three years theyll be out anyway....
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feverish wrote:
Good outcomes. Looking forward to it. Prob could have arrived at this in five minutes without a panel but still.
 
Actually think that's quite an important point, can someone ask glading what the panel did other than watch ACFC at the CWC, say..."hmm, they're quite good" and have a cup of tea and some bickies.
 
The thing is the big ticket item is the 450k going to the NZFC, but that cash was only secured last week.  So if they hadn't got that cash then what would have happened huh??

Normo's coming home

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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
if the NZF observers are all of the same "standard " as Glyn T .......I see no problems at all.....
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Are you serious? The reason is that there are absolutely no players in either Southland or Queenstown (every now and then have a couple of alright foreigners, but only alright). When I say no players I mean no players, not even bad players, just no players. They can't compete in the SPL less the national league.

Jasper - if he put his hand up then I am sure he would be picked. Trouble is he is more interested in sipping pims and hitting the slopes then playing football - not to mention he goes home to Auckland over the summer.
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Kennedy you're arguing with a 12 year old (no disrespect Tom).
 
Chances of a third South Island team are absolutely zero you'd have to say.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
but there are crowds of 50  waiting .....
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
Kennedy you're arguing with a 12 year old (no disrespect Tom).
�

Chances of a third South Island team are absolutely zero you'd have to say.


FYI. Tbh, the closest chance of having a "3rd South Island team" would be Marlborough/Nelson team with some Canterbury players and their strength might be close to what Otago team are with some Canterbury players atm, But it would be unconvincing to push ahead if the South Island teams ain't getting to the top half of a 8 team table of the NZFC. If Otago/Southland club teams alway going to struggle if there were two club teams at the old national league because the lack of quality players in the region, then there is no real possibility of it improving under the NZFC system as it was alway the top two clubs way ahead from the next two and then rest. This is never going to change for a very very long time.AllWhitebelievr2010-02-05 02:27:10
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about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
tomrewi wrote:
edit - They didnt select Sam Jasper even though he has played u16, u17 and u20 Nz rep. Hes also played for Canterbury United, Waitakere United and the NZ knights.


That's because he didn't want to play.

Three for me, and two for them.

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